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Why is there no 'separation of temples and state' in India?

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prasad1

Well-known member
As our dear member KRN always reminds me, this is a singular failure of this govt to fix these laws and make the legal status of Hindus on par with the other religionists.

There must be a uniform (maybe secular) civil code.

Uniform civil code
is the ongoing point of debate within Indian mandate to replace personal laws based on the scriptures and customs of each major religious community in India with a common set of rules governing every citizen. ... Goa has a common family law, thus being the only Indian state to have a uniform civil code.
Of course, the primary minority religions and the secularists will oppose such a law, that grants parity to hindus, tooth and nail.

Whey would they and on what grounds? Has it been passed by the supermajority?

Preserving the special privileges of the minority religions is their goal, which they hide under the garb of opposing hindutva.

Who are these people who will oppose? And why is the supermajority afraid of that?

But if a govt with significant majority in the LS cannot achieve it, then the fault lies with the government.

Treating hindus on par with minorities is the way to go.

Why not treat all Indian as Indians? Instead of making all Indian a minority (which defies the meaning of the word).
Would that be acceptable to all?
Let us see how many people oppose that Novel idea?
Instead of creating this ME and other conflicts, why can we not work together?

I hate this groupism among members and subtle Islamaphobia, and outright hatred of minorities, and other Hindus who do not wear their religion on their sleeve.
 
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prasad1

Well-known member
Article 44 of the Directive Principles in the Constitution says the “State shall endeavour to provide for its citizens a uniform civil code (UCC) throughout the territory of India.” The objective of this endeavour should be to address the discrimination against vulnerable groups and harmonise diverse cultural practices. The stand taken by B.R. Ambedkar in the Constituent Assembly debates has survived the years. Dr. Ambedkar had said a UCC is desirable but for the moment should remain voluntary.


Legal experts say that the Supreme Court missed an opportunity to decide on the issue in 2017 when it outlawed triple talaq without addressing the core issue: whether personal law practices should prevail over the fundamental rights of life, dignity and non-discrimination. The Constitution Bench’s judgment was the product of an October 2015 decision of a two-judge Bench of the court to take suo motu cognisance of the discriminatory practices against Muslim women. This Bench pointed out that it had been 30 years since the court, in the Shah Bano case, urged the government to frame a common code to “help in the cause of national integration.”

The Constitution Bench’s judgment came about a year after the Law Commission, in a novel move in October 2016, published a “questionnaire” to test the waters on the UCC. It wanted to see whether the nation was ready for it. The questions included “what measures should be taken to sensitise society to a common code or codification of personal law,” and would the UCC ensure “gender equality.”

What was the government waiting for?



I hate to deviate from the original post, but I am responding to other posts in this thread.
So the government can declare the Voluntary period is over, and impose Article 44 if it chooses.
 
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Asking for equal parity for hindus does not amount to minority hatred. Only people who want to preserve the special treatment of minorities will say so. The proof as they say is in the pudding.

The situation that we have in India did not come up in Vacuum. One has to analyze the various constitutional amendments over the years by different political parties, court cases that led to these amendments, the formation of minority affairs etc to understand it.

In India we have this strange situation where people are okay with bigoted laws but they oppose people who point out that the laws are bigoted.
 

a-TB

Well-known member
There is a general filibustering and derailing of this thread that is concerning.

Post 1 was about why Hindu temple management is being interfered with by Indian government on selective basis.

While some diversion from original topic is reasonable, this thread is not about TB or rather anti TB topics. It is NOT about bigoted Hindus.

Wisdom quotes by people of any religion is always welcome but quoting another religious scripture that has nothing to with the topic and it is a form of derailing the thread. It is nice no one went for that bait.

This thread is not about division among TB communities.

It is also not respectful to write irrelevant information either.

If people want to have other topics discussed they are welcome to open separate threads.

Mr KRN and Mr KB did address the issues raised. Let us get back to the topic please.

I would like to request Mr Praveen to close this thread
 

a-TB

Well-known member
I could not edit. What I meant to say is that let us stick to the topic of a given thread please and not deviate too much. Hence I requested this thread to be closed.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Sure, any religion or group can borrow from another and practice it.

The point is, many of these are not exclusive and hence the majority Hindus should adopt them.
Thats forcing people ..it isnt fair.

If some complain forcing by the sword is unfair..well so is forcing by the pen.
After all the pen is mightier than the sword.

I feel a lot local deities have been absorbed into the Hindu pantheon and to some extent there has been dilution of culture.
Some dilution is inevitable..all cultures are diluted these days.

So the least one can do is not force anyone to adopt what their hearts cant feel.
Its total violence to force someone to adopt something they can never find common grounds.

The human mind is free to choose what they want but not be forced to choose what they dont want.

Its an act of violence and disrespect to take away the mindset of another.
 

renuka

Well-known member
A
There is a general filibustering and derailing of this thread that is concerning.

Post 1 was about why Hindu temple management is being interfered with by Indian government on selective basis.

While some diversion from original topic is reasonable, this thread is not about TB or rather anti TB topics. It is NOT about bigoted Hindus.

Wisdom quotes by people of any religion is always welcome but quoting another religious scripture that has nothing to with the topic and it is a form of derailing the thread. It is nice no one went for that bait.

This thread is not about division among TB communities.

It is also not respectful to write irrelevant information either.

If people want to have other topics discussed they are welcome to open separate threads.

Mr KRN and Mr KB did address the issues raised. Let us get back to the topic please.

I would like to request Mr Praveen to close this thread
As usual...
 

renuka

Well-known member
Dear Jaykay ji..
If you would like to discuss futher you could start a new thread.
But i have made most of my points clear already.
Cos someone is calling for thread to be closed in Minion duty.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Hi Renukaji,
LOL. Jalra as usual on duty - putting Jalra to his leaders even if they don't want !!
I understand and respect your views. I definitely need to work on my arguments, and convincing skills before discussing this with you again :)-

JK.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Thats forcing people ..it isnt fair.

If some complain forcing by the sword is unfair..well so is forcing by the pen.
After all the pen is mightier than the sword.

I feel a lot local deities have been absorbed into the Hindu pantheon and to some extent there has been dilution of culture.
Some dilution is inevitable..all cultures are diluted these days.

So the least one can do is not force anyone to adopt what their hearts cant feel.
Its total violence to force someone to adopt something they can never find common grounds.

The human mind is free to choose what they want but not be forced to choose what they dont want.

Its an act of violence and disrespect to take away the mindset of another.
Hi Renukaji,
Sorry. To clarify, I am not forcing anyone, if my post came across that way, it was unintended. As I said, I will have to come back with better and stronger arguments. LOL.

JK.
 
For a professed secular country, its wrong on behalf of Govt to control temples. There are instances in Tamilnadu wherein temple funds are swindled by party people.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Hi Renukaji,
Sorry. To clarify, I am not forcing anyone, if my post came across that way, it was unintended. As I said, I will have to come back with better and stronger arguments. LOL.

JK.
Take your time.
I like good posts where I am free to respond.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Take your time.
I like good posts where I am free to respond.
Hi Renukaji,
Agree , this has to be a separate thread.
To clarify, I am not put off by your strong opposition at all. Just surprised. Radical views are not easy to accept. So I will shortly open a thread on this subject for us to debate this.

JK.
 
One of the principles valued in USA is separation of Church and State.
This ensures freedom of religious expression while also not corrupting either a religion of governing of a State.

Now in India there has been Government intrusion into management of Hindu temples.

I never understood why this is allowed to go on.

Now let us not get immature and label anyone raising such issues with terms like Hindutva etc. If you are anti-religion of any kind then best is to stay away from discussion. This is a genuine query I have and legal scholars and others are welcome to share their views

Unlike churches which are controlled by missionaries there is no institutional arrangement to manage temples in India. They have been public properties managed by kings. Hindu religion has several branches and perhaps the difficulty to find a single authority among Hindus to identify for managing the temple properties has necessitated bringing govt control over temple properties. It is high time that religious leaders take the initiative to create a common and credible agency/Trust to manage the temples and approach the governments to take over management of the temples.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Hi Renukaji,
Agree , this has to be a separate thread.
To clarify, I am not put off by your strong opposition at all. Just surprised. Radical views are not easy to accept. So I will shortly open a thread on this subject for us to debate this.

JK.
Its not really surprising at all .
I like to view life beyond these man made classification and bodily identification.

Culture is each persons life style.
I dont follow any specific culture.
I do what the #@$ I want and so far results have been good.

So why get myself tied down and put a tag to my mind?
My mind chooses what I can identify with..even though I teach Sanskrit now and comparative religion is my interest..I can safely say 100% my mind does not function like a TB..becos I am not one.

Its better to be honest and function on the plane we can relate too and not force ourselves to adopt a culture we cant relate too..Krishna too said in the Geeta...its better to do ones own Dharma though faulty then to do anothers Dharma though perfectly.

Would it be fair and agreable to you if I were to ask you my mindset and personal culture which keeps changing in phases?

You wont and neither would I force you to be me.

There is no perfect culture..every culture has its good and bad
I am human..i like a speck of each culture in me..so I wont call myself anything.

When I die I go back to 5 elements..I dont carry any identity.
 

KRN

Active member
I could not edit. What I meant to say is that let us stick to the topic of a given thread please and not deviate too much. Hence I requested this thread to be closed.
Thank you a-TB Sir for the reminder.
I am sorry that I had replied to a message without recognizing that it was deviating from the main topic. Will take care of this in future.
 
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