Why every thread ends in Caste - Can this site take a break from caste

[prasad1]

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I think even if the world became a caste less society (wish), this site is so split up that they will not give it up. Even a discussion about Hemamalini ends up in caste!!!

Can there be a section which says that reference to caste will be banned. May be we can have some meaningful discussion about present and future.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

I think even if the world became a caste less society (wish), this site is so split up that they will not give it up. Even a discussion about Hemamalini ends up in caste!!!

Can there be a section which says that reference to caste will be banned. May be we can have some meaningful discussion about present and future.

A good and relevant question. We continue to live in the past and would like to bask in our past glory. It is purely personal and we should start talking about the society.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

There is caste in the very name of the site.
It is the indispensable word needed to continue the brahmin bashing.
Without brahmins who else can we bash???
Who else will put up with this kind of bashing???
The new slogan is
Down down Brahmins!
Long live their names!!
so that we continue the bashing
unabated in future also! :deadhorse:

 

[sarang]

Caste is eternal and cannot be done away with. Only varna/jathi/kula concept and practice has protected sanatana dharma from the onslaught of christianity and islam.

Leave alone brahmins, no other community will give up their birth caste - ask any reddy, nair, menon, gowda, yadhav to merge with others and lose their identity - they will never do it. American reddies are no exception. They wear their caste status proudly.

More brahmins must come forward to assert their identity. There is nothing wrong in saying that he and his group are superior; let people of other castes including so called backward also claim that they too are superior. Not difficult to practice, if one accepts the rights and privileges of others and
and wants everyone to prosper.

Deluded souls talk of only anti-brahmins; they never open their mouth about any other caste. Why this double standard. Brahmins don't have to defensive, but continue to practice and preserve their varna/community/family culture to the best of their ability.

A small quote from a blog of Senthilraja, a strong advocate of caste system.

Quote:
Varnashrama Dharma is NOT totalatarian :
Most of us think, that manu smriti is a totalatarian book like the bible, or the Indian Constitution. This is wrong. Varnashrama Dharma, is only for the settled society. NOT for all people. There are so many people groups, where varnashrama dharma doesnt apply, and that they lived independant of the settled society.
To quote an example, Sri Rama is a kshatriya. But what do we say with Guha? He is NOT a shudra, NOR a panchama. He is the chief of a fisherman community, a semi-tribal group. Varnashrama Dharma do NOT apply to them.
Arjuna and other pandavas were kshatriyas. But Ekalavya?? He is just chief of a tribe. And varna dharma doesnt apply to them.
In Short, all tribal societies are outside Varna Dharma, and varna is NOT mandatory for them and NOT enforced on them.
Infact, the varna based societies had co-existed with these groups peacefully, recognising their rights over the forest.

Varnashrama Dharma is NOT totalatarian | Senthilraja’s blog

 

[sarang]

Another gem from senthilraja's blog:

Manu Smriti is NOT Bible:
Is there any society in europe, that exists outside the purview of Bible? Except for some micro-Minorities (like Roma Gypsies), there is nothing. The Bible classifies the whole world in to Believers and Infidels, in which, the infidels are either to be converted to christianity or destroyed. In short, its not allowed for any people group, to exist outside Biblical Society.
And varnashrama dharma is being perceived on the same lines, by a section of our people. That’s wrong. Varna classified people outside varna as Avarna, but recognised their rights over their land. Varna Dharma doesnt attempt to convert others. Infact, it only throws people out of varna system, if they dont adhere to it.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

A very good post. We are living life in our style. Only the others are awed by the word 'Brahmin'; some feel a nightmarish threat. Some with comfortable and assured life, would like to call themselves Brahmins. In Christians and Muslims there are people who say they were Brahmins! As you said the caste feelings run very deep in all non-Brahmin group. Majority of the caste clashes occur between other castes. But when it comes to common self-interest, they all unite against Brahmins. IMO, in today's condition, it is enough to be a Brahmin to yourself and accordingly interact with your community, without trying to harm others.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Again in Christianity, there are variants. The RCs, Protestants, Syrians, Orthodox Syrian Christians and numerous others. One would not go to other's church nor would a Father admit and allow burial of some who is outside his domain. Similarly there are differences in all other religions. They clash with each other. Do we? We are not even defensive but self-inflicting morons. Christianity goes to a remote tribal area to give succour, but an old christian lady of 100 yrs, handicapped and voiceless and helpless, was locked up in a church precinct whose daughter,70, died of heart attack. The dead and the living were there in the room for 2 days uncared for.

 

[sangom]

As smt VR has rightly observed, the forum name itself sports a caste name. And there are quite some newcomers who, somewhat as a ritual, say "I am proud to be a Tamil Brahmin". And Shri iyya, you have been here for long time to see how any suggestion that tabras should strive to get away from the brahmin supremacist feeling, is met with here by a certain group of our member-friends.

It may be necessary to do some research as to why the caste problem intrudes into each and every thread. I propose that some member start a new thread titled "Anything casteless — from Apple to Zebra". Let us see how it meanders.

 

[sarang]

brahmin supremacist feeling

What is this and who has it?

Brahmins, like everybody else, have a tradition, rich past, values and practices. Those who want to should be allowed to nurture the tradition. 'Kula kshaya drohis' can find other bigger pastures to have their version of fun!

 

[kunjuppu]

What is this and who has it?

Brahmins, like everybody else, have a tradition, rich past, values and practices. Those who want to should be allowed to nurture the tradition. 'Kula kshaya drohis' can find other bigger pastures to have their version of fun!

sarang,

who are the kula kshaya drohis here, so that they can start their search for other pastures, courtesy your suggestion.

i presume i would be one, though i do not know what kshaya means. kula drohi sounds complete by itself, and i would imagine that kshaya is an adjective to qualify the extent of drohiness.

btw, why should we move to greener pastures. have you not read praveen's numerous posts about the aim of this forum, that it is a public forum, and like the proverbial temple of ideas, keeps its windows open in all directions.

the only bad smell i would consider coming here, are those who come out of no where, create a maelstorm, mostly by their extreme ideas of fundamental hate and self hate or those that come here with a hidden agenda. we have had quite a few of those, in addition to the spammers.

as a kula drohi, i am least inclined to leave the forum, as for me, the greener of this pasture provides enough contentment and fruit for thought. so i am afraid, you have to put up with me, and my exhortation to other kula drohis, to stick around, and be a source of inspiration to absolute kula droham.

this is ofcourse assuming that reforms or penchant for reforms is kula droham, and sticking to racist exclusive 'oththippo brahmin ideals' of the past as kula gauravam. this i think i have to beg to disagree, for in this flat world, where absolute ideals rule, and where past wrongs are righted, albeit too slowly for some, there is no place for racists.

for the racists are the chief reason, as to why tambrams are so pathetically considered in tamil nadu. had they any brains, they would have not only accommodated the other groups, but provided an inclusive leadership, shared their lead in education and entreprise, so that as a whole tamil nadu could be an ideal for caste cooperation.

fortunately, these kula guaravams are declining in number, and what is left, will be, i think, a bitter isolated envious micro lot, who are best consigned to the dungheap of history.

sarang, i am sorry to say, us kula drohis are not going to leave here. we are going to stick around, and in addition to being a perpetual thorn to the kula gauravams, some of us through our erudition and logic, be a beacon of reform, and march towards a more inclusive and egalitarian hinduism - more of anbu shristi than of the manu kind, which i suspect you espouse.

thank you anyway for the kind suggestion. thanks. but no thanks.

btw, as a born brahmin, to the great traditions involve a palghat cuisine which i treasure and have ensured that the appreciation and the skillset is passed on to the next generation. also have not passed on, the feeling of separateness from other hindu groups. or an enamouration of sanskrit over tamil. but that is me.

 

[sangom]

sarang,

who are the kula kshaya drohis here, so that they can start their search for other pastures, courtesy your suggestion.

i presume i would be one, though i do not know what kshaya means. kula drohi sounds complete by itself, and i would imagine that kshaya is an adjective to qualify the extent of drohiness.

The sanskrit word drohī has the folloving meanings as per MWD - hurting, harming, injuring, en-
deavouring to hurt, malignant, malicious ; rebellious. So, kulakṣaya drohī (note the long ī as against the short i used by Shri sarang) will mean someone who hurts, harms, injures, endeavours to hurt, rebels, and so on against kulakṣaya, i.e.,the debilitation of kula, here brāhmaṇa kula. And, after all Shri sarang may be honest in that the KKDs are coming in the way of his avowed mission.

But K, you have done something unfortunate; why should you point out the mistake?

 

[suraju06]

Reference Kunjuppu's #10:

this is ofcourse assuming that reforms or penchant for reforms is kula droham, and sticking to racist exclusive 'oththippo brahmin ideals' of the past as kula gauravam. this i think i have to beg to disagree, for in this flat world, where absolute ideals rule, and where past wrongs are righted, albeit too slowly for some, there is no place for racists.

Even though this is an angry retort by kunjuppu (rarely does he get angry though), the sweeping statement like the one quoted above calls for counters to restore the balance. There are two assumptions made here. 1. that there are people with penchant for reform. While a group of people may consider their views as penchant for reforms, other group does not look at it that way. It looks at the revolutionary calls for reforms as mindless obsession with turning things topsy turvy. 2. This"sticking to racist,exclusive, othippo brahmin ideals" is an alphabet soup with a familiar stink. The othippo exclusivity is looked at as a right to privacy by many. I have personally experienced this in Europe. The non reformist group may ask What is the opposite of othippo? Is it to catch hold of every Tom Dick and Harry on the street and hold him/her in a lip lock (a la Benetton ad.)? Where does your right to privacy end? because it is there that the othippo ends. For some it may be at the tip of their nose and for some it may be a little more than that. So let us stop hitting at the othippo of the brahmins. There are many neo-brahmins and NBs for whom a much larger space around them is their exclusive, inviolable, private, othippo domain.

for the racists are the chief reason, as to why tambrams are so pathetically considered in tamil nadu. had they any brains, they would have not only accommodated the other groups, but provided an inclusive leadership, shared their lead in education and entreprise, so that as a whole tamil nadu could be an ideal for caste cooperation.

A better understanding of Tamilnadu would make you realise that brahmins have shared whatever they had with others, that they have yielded much space to others than many other NBs. If their condition is pathetic, as you want us to believe, it can be only due to politics and antics of NBs.

fortunately, these kula guaravams are declining in number, and what is left, will be, i think, a bitter isolated envious micro lot, who are best consigned to the dungheap of history.

What a fervent wish! Pray to God. He may grant it.

btw, as a born brahmin, to the great traditions involve a palghat cuisine which i treasure and have ensured that the appreciation and the skillset is passed on to the next generation. also have not passed on, the feeling of separateness from other hindu groups. or an enamouration of [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]sanskrit[/FONT][/FONT] over tamil. but that is me.

A brahmin need not be a Sankrit enthusiast to the detriment of Tamil. Why do people not understand this simple thing. Should it always be either them or us? Brahmins love Sanskrit and tamil equally. They are well versed in both these languages equally. So where is the need for this characterising of brahmins as "enamoured of [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]sanskrit[/FONT][/FONT] over tamil".

Kunjuppu, your anger turned you blind to reason and that is why this unusual confusion. Cool, man, cool.
Take it easy. Just because some one calls you a drohi you do not become that. Peace.

Cheers.

 

[C RAVI]

Shri Prasad,

As Smt Visalakshi has stated, since this platform is tamilbrahmins.com, some of the well wishers of Brahmins are taking the pain to reform the Brahmin society. That is to see that the existence of Brahmins should come to an end once for all as they are nothing but the product of past sins and are dangerous to exist now and in future.

Since this platform is open to all sorts of info sharing and reformations within Brahmin Society, caste centred debates exists in all most all the threads in efforts towards and with the hopes of eradication of caste Brahmins from TN for a healthy, justful and loving TN society to prevail. IMO, we should not take the eforts as reformation of a Brahmin society BUT an efforts towards making the caste Brahmin disappear.

Since eradication of Caste system in TN/India is a great concept, Brahmins are expected to kick start this wonderful concept by making themselves disappear first and be role models to other Caste communities.

IMO, a mind set is expected to welcome such a pragmatic approach as better evolved humans.

My only doubt is how potent the strategies towards caste brahmin eradication in this virtual platform would be, to bring in the desired results in the "real" phsycial society, outside of the cyber world, which is more dynamic and exists with clear facts, per consequences.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

In the real world inter caste/ inter community / inter state/ inter religious / international and inter Continental weddings take care of the total eradication of the said community. Krishna had predicted this long long ago!

Shri Prasad,

As Smt Visalakshi has stated, since this platform is tamilbrahmins.com, some of the well wishers of Brahmins are taking the pain to reform the Brahmin society. That is to see that the existence of Brahmins should come to an end once for all as they are nothing but the product of past sins and are dangerous to exist now and in future.

Since this platform is open to all sorts of info sharing and reformations within Brahmin Society, caste centred debates exists in all most all the threads in efforts towards and with the hopes of eradication of caste Brahmins from TN for a healthy, justful and loving TN society to prevail. IMO, we should not take the eforts as reformation of a Brahmin society BUT an efforts towards making the caste Brahmin disappear.

Since eradication of Caste system in TN/India is a great concept, Brahmins are expected to kick start this wonderful concept by making themselves disappear first and be role models to other Caste communities.

IMO, a mind set is expected to welcome such a pragmatic approach as better evolved humans.

My only doubt is how potent the strategies towards caste brahmin eradication in this virtual platform would be, to bring in the desired results in the "real" phsycial society, outside of the cyber world, which is more dynamic and exists with clear facts, per consequences.


[/QUOTE]

 

[Raji Ram]

in the real world inter caste/ inter community / inter state/ inter religious / international and inter continental weddings take care of the total eradication of the said community. Krishna had predicted this long long ago!

Then why get upset when I said 'Long live the word Brahmin'. I know the community will soon disappear. At least let the 'word' live!!ray:

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

What is in a NAME without a FORM to go with it?

Like Manmathan perhaps...?

Then why get upset when I said 'Long live the word Brahmin'. I know the community will soon disappear. At least let the 'word' live!!ray:

 

[kunjuppu]

Then why get upset when I said 'Long live the word Brahmin'. I know the community will soon disappear. At least let the 'word' live!!ray:

raji,

i hope the word, atleast in tamil nadu context, does not 'disappear'.

what i wish, is for a community, to be viewed, as 'one of us' by other tamil tribes. not as 'us and them'. i also think, that we are the prime cause of this segregation. in no other state, is hindu society divided and addressed, as B & NB. only in tamil nadu.

i read one elaborate post in another forum, long ago, as to why it happened, and why it was a mistake. ofcourse, this was written by a fervent brahmin, whose only regret, was the previous generations tambrams, had they been wiser, in order to ensure a perpetual suzerainty, would have included a few other upper castes, so as to give them the comfort of numbers. to that extent, the author opined, that our ancestors were 'dumb'.

ofcourse, any inclusive hindu society should consider the dalits as among us. not as panchamars, ie outside the caste.

i do not know if this will ever happen, but unless one dreams, one cannot atleast envision it, and make it a goal for future generations to target. my generation is too corrupt to even imagine this, i think.

 

[kunjuppu]

dear suraju,

re your post #12. thank you very kindly for the same.

if i sounded angry, it was not meant to be such. i was more disgusted and dismayed, that a fellow member, wishes to banish other distinguished members because he does not like them or their views.

for most of us here, we are here by choice. not by invitation. so we can only leave of our own choice, and not because someone withdrew an invite. right?

again, who is to say, who is right? or wrong? each of us, has our views, and while we converge on some, we differ on the others. we enjoy what we believe, for otherwise, we will not have published it here. our views are a set result of a lifetime of experiences.

suraju, i have never denied or shown disrespect for what you believe. for these are your uniquely formed personality. i should thank you for treating me the same.

i do wish, in your reply, if you had addressed, sarang's rather rude and unwanted comments, re exhorting sangom, myself and people of our ilk, to leave the forum. to me that does not sound very decent, to put it mildly. i hope you agree, atleast on that count

greetings and best wishes. as always...

 

[suraju06]

Dear Kunjuppu,

I think Sarang is comparatively new to this forum and so does not know the members here.So we can give him the benefit of it. I agree with you that there was no need for him to be so harsh.

Cheers.

 

[sarang]

@raju:

Thanks for the comforting words. Whether new or old one can easily evaluate the intentions, philosophy and prejudices of other posters. Some posters, established or novices, have expressed anti brahmin and brahmin hate outpourings consistently and and have used very strong words - destruction of brahmins and brahminism - and they will be an asset to EVR-DK or mayavati. (Now mayavati has changed her tune and has said both dalits and brahmins are the exploited communities; and DK does only lip service to EVR ideals against brahmins).

This is the content of the earlier post which has ruffled a few:

"Brahmins like everybody else, have a tradition, rich past, values and practices. Those who want to should be allowed to nurture the tradition. 'Kula kshaya drohis' can find other bigger pastures to have their version of fun!"

'kulakhayakrutam droham mitradrohecha pathakm' says arjuna to krishna (1.37, BG) He is confused and is incoherent when confronted with a vicious attack that will result in death or surrender to the 'keen to destroy' kauravas. I do not know whether a more suitable word than 'kulakshya drohi' is available from a brahmin loving 'racist' who wants to preserve vedic tradition, in a situation where his survival is threatened.

I am surprised that the use of idiom 'find other bigger pastures' is interpreted as an order to leave the forum. It is only an encouragement to post such brahmin bashing views in bigger forums with more members, where more encomium and applause will be received.

One thing is clear - converted atheists, agnostics, cannot sing the praise or propagate the good in their chosen path; they find pleasure only in abusing and discrediting the faithful.

Everyone has to fight his own battle. When casteist, racist and much stronger 'names' are regularly used, 'kulakshyadrohi' at least has a reference in BG.

 

[kunjuppu]

@raju:

...I am surprised that the use of idiom 'find other bigger pastures' is interpreted as an order to leave the forum. It is only an encouragement to post such brahmin bashing views in bigger forums with more members, where more encomium and applause will be received.

.

sarang,

you are contradicting yourself here. on one hand, you claim that you did not suggest me to leave, and on the other hand, in the very same sentence, you ask me to go post my views in a broader forum. what is it that you are saying.

no matter what your views may be, i welcome you to this forum. i am not sure under what pretensions, you claim an absolute right to your single minded rather (what i think) narrow view of our religion, caste and above all the need to reform.

quoting BG wont help.anyone can go anywhere and quote anything to suit their mental framework. it takes more, to address for each view, what is it that you find offensive.

ok you dont like periyar. but 97% of tamil nadu does. i like him. i discount his anti brahmin statements, for he is an eccentric. he is one of the few original reformers, who did not claim to be 100% right or demand 100% following. periyar is on record, asking anyone who finds some interest in his view, to filter it, and take only what is applicabe or make sense to them.

periyar's views on female education, family planning and above all, the need to throw out superstitions which strangle the life and mood of the community, is priceless. we can heed that even today as tambrams... have you noticed we have so many unmarried guys and gals, and every one of them, puts this filter of horoscope and right away excludes a good percentage of the eligibles?

sarang, in my family till 40 years ago, it was the custom, on widowhood, to shear the hair of the females, to give them white cloth, and cast them to the kitchen and backyard for the rest of their lives. i would presume you would too consider this barbaric and would not dream of perpetuating this to your mother, sister or daughter. i am the same. so what is your problem, when we talk of reforms, and the need to shed obscenely disgusting practices. is this not liberating ourselves from the unnecessary baggages handed over to us by our ancestors.

is it not our smartness, today, to understand our current environment, and adjust, modify and attune our values and philosophies to be insyc with the value of our times. today, the world is flat; we do not discriminate between our sons and daughters; we tambrams move all over the world in search of jobs and education; where we go, we expect, demand and mostly receive equal treatment.

if folks here point out the ancient inequalities and built in racist structure of manu, i see no reason, why today's folks cannot accept that and rid themselves of such baggages. that is indeed the right thing to do. to stand up for such arcane values, does not do ourselves, our intellect or our sense of fairness - any justice.

sarang, welcome and wishing you a pleasant sojourn here in tambrams.com

 

[kunjuppu]

i was wondering how to incite a break from the rather morose discussion that myself, and also this thread got into.

came across this video and thought, though this video has nothing to do with the thread, would provide some comic relief.

i dont know what it is, but there is something within each of us, that need to perform in public. never mind that most of us make asses of ourselves doing so, but when done in a group, atleast we share the honours with our peers, i guess.

here is one with middle aged mamas and mamis, performing a song, which if i remember right, sounds like an uptodate hit, of 30+ years ago. get a chuckle, but make sure you dont choke

[video=youtube;Xgq1Bmix4U0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgq1Bmix4U0&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[sangom]

i was wondering how to incite a break from the rather morose discussion that myself, and also this thread got into.

came across this video and thought, though this video has nothing to do with the thread, would provide some comic relief.

i dont know what it is, but there is something within each of us, that need to perform in public. never mind that most of us make asses of ourselves doing so, but when done in a group, atleast we share the honours with our peers, i guess.

here is one with middle aged mamas and mamis, performing a song, which if i remember right, sounds like an uptodate hit, of 30+ years ago. get a chuckle, but make sure you dont choke

[video=youtube;Xgq1Bmix4U0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgq1Bmix4U0&feature=player_embedded[/video]

Kunjuppu,

This is some gulf stage show by Asianet and confident group or something. The song was a favourite of Malayalis; it is from the movie "moodal manju" (1980) directed by Balu Mahendra.

The lyrics are:—

Nee madhu pakaroo malar choriyoo anuraaga paurnamiye..(2).
Nee mayalle marayalle neela nilavoliye..(nee madhu pakarooo..)
Manivilakkuvenda mukil kaanenda ee prema sallaapam…
Kali paranjirikke mukil thudangiyallo anuraaga sangeetham..(2)
Iru karalukalil virunnu vannu maayaatha madhumaasam…..
Nee mayalle …marayalle….. neela nilavoliye..(nee madhu pakaroo…)
Maanam kadha paranju thaaram kettirunnu aakaasha maniyarayil..
Ithalariyaathe nin hrudayamithil njan choranaayy kadannu..(2)
Udalariyaathe…uyirariyaathe nin maanasam kavarnnu..
Nee mayalle..marayalle..neela nilavoliye…(nee madhu pakaroo…)

The original is available [video=youtube;iweqOQ6xzT8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iweqOQ6xzT8[/video].

 

[sarang]

“find bigger pastures” means spreading of wings. Like a state politician is encouraged to stretch himself to ‘centre’ politics. No politician is expected or advised to give up state politics or ever does. I do not see any contradiction.

My view of our religion and life of tambrams is my concern and I will explain it in the way I understand and practice. Whether you consider it narrow, racist or against your version of liberalism is irrelevant to me.

brahmin supremacist feeling
What is this and who has it?

Brahmins, like everybody else, have a tradition, rich past, values and practices. Those who want to should be allowed to nurture the tradition. 'Kula kshaya drohis' can find other bigger pastures to have their version of fun!

This was my post #9. It starts with someone’s assertion of ‘brahmin supremacist feeling’. The first part of the post is about the positive aspect of allowing those who are doing or wanting to nurture the tradition. The last line is about K-S-D (who treat 'the practicing lot' with disdain/hate and want the species to become weak and powerless) who will gain more of everything – visibility and praise in forums where this is welcomed. Why this volcanic explosion as if it is directed only against you? Where is the demand for x, y and z to quit the forum? Interpretation is mind-boggling!

I believe this figure of 97% for ‘evr zindabad’ is arrived at by subtracting 3% brahmins from the tamil population. Both manu and evr have a striking similarity. One is reviled and the other is praised, and none of their ‘laws’ is followed. EVR exhorted his followers to kill the brahmin first before turning to the snake. Fortunately, snake is an endangered species, and Brahmins are thriving; evr’s followers are wise and know what is good for them. Both the main Dravidian parties are 97% religious, sport big tilaks, regularly organise pujas and homas for their Dravidian leaders’ welfare and freedom and for family's prosperity! Manu’s laws are also not followed either. So where is the dispute? I agree the figure of 97 can be increased to 100 without any dissenting voice as no one cares.

“have you noticed we have so many unmarried guys and gals, and every one of them, puts this filter of horoscope and right away excludes a good percentage of the eligibles?”

The boys and the girls and their parents know what is good for them and always find solutions and ways around the perceived obstacles. If the guy or the girl is unmarried but blames the horoscope for this condition of eternal bachelorhood they fall in the category of blaming everybody else for their misfortune. Thousands of brahmin-brahmin marriages are happening all the time. I see no merit is such generalizations.

I see your strong point is the treatment of widows in your family; you must have written about it at least a dozen times. I have also written that my experience is different. 97% of the widows in my family and neighbourhood, as I remember, wore coloured saree, did not shave their heads and were active participants in the daily chore, visited temples and attended discourses and what not. Other communities too follow some harsh practices. Some widows choose to lead a restricted life ; in the late 90s, when my boss’s father died, his mother became a virtual sanyasi – gave up non veg, ornaments, and many other comforts in life, of her own choice.

I think I will stop here. You are free to practice what you preach or believe; that is not the issue. Don’t wield Quixote sword on others who can find their own path. As you have found your salvation following marx and evr, they too will find theirs.

No more lavani for me. Please do me a favour and do not address a post to me. I will do likewise. My posts will be to all forum members and not to any one in particular.

 

[sangom]

Shri sarang,

This is with reference to your post#24 here.

When it is said that "Brahmins, like everybody else, have a tradition, rich past, values and practices. Those who want to should be allowed to nurture the tradition. 'Kula kshaya drohis' can find other bigger pastures to have their version of fun!", the plain and simple meaning is that the KKDs according to you, need not make this particular pasture (i.e., this Forum) as the site for their fun and should get out of here and write whatever they want, in other, bigger forums.

If for example (and let us not hope so) your boss were to tell you something on similar lines (brahministic mindset is not appreciated in this workplace. Those who want to nurture the tradition of brahmins, can find bigger work sites for their purpose, will you interpret it in the same way?

I and most probably others like kunjuupu, nara, etc., write and express here are very much our view of the hindu religion, just as much as you say what you write is your "view of our religion". As for life of tambrams is concerned, I humbly submit that none of us, including you, can claim any authority or influence over the tambrams as a community so as to enable us to change their life-style, whatever that may be, and all of us can merely express our views, that's all.

The owner of this site Shri Praveen has repeatedly made it clear that he has no bias against any view being expressed as long as they are in polite language.

Hence, your branding people who do not sync with your views as "KKDs" will definitely appear as "over reaction" caused, perhaps, by a very well developed intolerance. I wish you realize this.

Coming to KKD itself, BG itself does not have such a usage. The verse I-38 reads as under:-

यद्यपि एतॆ न पश्यन्ति लोभोपहत चॆतसः ।
कुलक्षयकृतं दॊषं मित्रद्रोहे च पातकम् ॥

yadyapi ete na paśyanti lobhopahata cetasaḥ |
kulakṣayakṛtaṃ doṣaṃ mitradrohe ca pātakam ||

Tilak's translation of the above verse is—
Although these (persons) whose minds have been overpowered by greed, do not see the guilt resulting from the extinction of a family, and the sin of treachery of a friend,

and then the next verse completes Arjuna's query as under:-

कथं न ज्ञॆयमस्माभिः पापादस्मान्निवर्तितुम् ।
कुलक्षयकृतं दोषं प्रपश्यद्भिर्जनार्दन ॥

kathaṃ na jñeyamasmābhiḥ pāpādasmānnivartitum |
kulakṣayakṛtaṃ doṣaṃ prapaśyadbhirjanārdana ||

yet, O janārdana ! when we clearly see the guilt of extinction of the family, how can it not enter our minds to turn away from this sin?

You will thus find that kulakṣaya if done, is a doṣaṃ or guilt, and mitradrohaṃ is a pātakaṃ or sin.

Even though I am an agno-theist or deist, and do not believe that the BG represents any true conversation in a battle field, nor that the character of Krishna is genuinely the Supreme God, as is made out to be, I have taken the trouble to read, understand, analyze and introspect for a sufficiently long time to come to my own conclusion. I believe others like you, holding a contrarian view, would also, similarly, have studied the scriptures before completely believing in them.

You are gracious enough to admit now "You are free to practice what you preach or believe" but your religious inclinations have made you intolerant to such an extent as to dislike responding to his posts addressed to you. If all that you have so far been able to achieve is such intolerance, does it not prove that your beliefs are fragile and are incapable of facing opposing views? Kindly introspect.

I will like continuing responses from you so that the views of either side get duly reflected in the archives of this Forum, so that readers will be able to get both kinds of inputs and will come to their own conclusions.