Why do we Pray - is it begging?

[krish44]

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Krish,

Try and visit Bali or Sulawesi when you can (I don't think Indians need prior visas to enter Indonesia), you'll witness Hinduism as it is meant to be. Or you might also visit villages in and around Manali in Himachal to experience early Hinduism. No Brahman Batman for these simple folk.

ash, shall try bali next time I go to singapore. it is in my radar for quite some time. manali I have avoided as roads are bad and flights are by dornier and small aircrafts which are unsafe.

 

[krish44]

Dear Sir,

The take home point for the day is DOPAMINE.

Dopamine levels in the body increase during exercise and sexual intercourse too.

So one can choose a whole range of activities to boost Dopamine levels.

At the end of the day some of us seek the Truth..the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth and that is something that prayers can never actually let us know...what are we praying for? what do we really want?

When we do not want anything anymore..not even wanting to know what Truth is all about that is the day we realize that prayer itself was an illusion all along and not actually even required.

Its the Dopamine release of prayer that actually makes us fail the Dope test of life.

the basic issue-what are we praying for and what do we really want-in case we know these-I agree prayer may not be a requirement.thats a pretty good justification for not praying in the first place. prayer ,I strongly believe is just time pass for senior citizen most of whom have nothing better to do. they feel they have done enough in life and escape to prayer mode.Many of them have a lot of productive life left and refuse to be actively engage with life issues.

 

[renuka]

Question:


Does God actually want us to pray??

 

[ashwin_ash]

Question:


Does God actually want us to pray??

If we have better things to do, we won't be building elaborate "pooja rooms" and spending time asking for selfish favors.

 

[sravna]

Question:


Does God actually want us to pray??

Dear Renuka,

Think about this. There is no real hold on the moral behavior of a person if he does not believe in God. In a fight between a person's ego and conscience his ego may well prevail. If you pray your ego has not totally taken over you and you have the moral pressure from the conscience and there is a greater possibility of conscience prevailing than in the former case.

I accept that there are people who do not believe in God and are righteous and vice versa. But under pressures and temptations the former are more likely to yield and change than those who believe in God. So praying to God is a way of accepting that certain things are beyond you and you need the help of that someone who is greater than you. If helps to keep your ego under check than is possible in any other way.

 

[prasad1]

None of the vedas advocate prayers for favors. None of the puranas also advocate prayers for favors. Primitive Hinduism consisted of nature worship such as worshipping storm gods and other natural elements.

I am not an expert in all the puranas. But according to the story of Satyanarayan Puja.

Shri Satyanarayana katha (narrative) comes from the Skandha purana, Reva kaanda. Suta Maharshi narrated these stories, in Neimishaaranya to the Rishis who were performing a 1,000 year yagna for the benefit of mankind lead by Shounakji. In the stories characters who ignored their promise to perform the puja after their wish had been fulfilled suffered as a result. Therefore one is to deduce that one must stick to the promise given to the Lord in exchange of the desire fulfilled by his grace. One is not to ignore or forget the Lord’s Grace.

I am sure there are other instances of the purana's pushing prayers. I have nothing against any chanting to that is done to focus the mind, in preparation for meditation. I have problem with the lyrics of the prayers, which is either a lament or begging favors from God.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Question:

Does God actually want us to pray??

Mam,

I am yet to see an Hospital at Chennai without a small temple at a corner. Why........?

 

[prasad1]

In the mean time the best approach is to live and let live - let us equally respect those that want to pray or not pray provided they do not cause harm to others.

Sir I do not disagree with your post.
My post was in GD section and not in the religious section. I do not know enough to criticizes others for their ways, but for myself I had this doubt, and I wanted some clarification.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

,I strongly believe is just time pass for senior citizen most of whom have nothing better to do. they feel they have done enough in life and escape to prayer mode.Many of them have a lot of productive life left and refuse to be actively engage with life issues.

Krish ji,

What is your belief if professionally busy young people pray, it is okay then?????

 

[ashwin_ash]

I am not an expert in all the puranas. But according to the story of Satyanarayan Puja.



I am sure there are other instances of the purana's pushing prayers. I have nothing against any chanting to that is done to focus the mind, in preparation for meditation. I have problem with the lyrics of the prayers, which is either a lament or begging favors from God.

Precisely. Puranas are stories meant to entertain. Karunanidhi and his gang have literally translated the christian verses "seek, and thou shall be granted" and incorporated it into Hinduism which certainly does not ask its followers to go around asking "alla ke naam pe do paisa de babaaaa..", nor do Hindus scream alla alla 5 times a day and block arterial roads for namaz as if its their birthright, God is certainly not deaf.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Renuka,

Think about this. There is no real hold on the moral behavior of a person if he does not believe in God. In a fight between a person's ego and conscience his ego may well prevail. If you pray your ego has not totally taken over you and you have the moral pressure from the conscience and there is a greater possibility of conscience prevailing than in the former case.

I accept that there are people who do not believe in God and are righteous and vice versa. But under pressures and temptations the former are more likely to yield and change than those who believe in God. So praying to God is a way of accepting that certain things are beyond you and you need the help of that someone who is greater than you. If helps to keep your ego under check than is possible in any other way.

Please do not jump to the conclusion that people who are opposed to begging favors are against God. That is far from truth. If you consider God as King then to obtain favors from that king you have to pray, beg, praise etc. But if you believe in Brahman (as opposed to abrahamic God) then begging and praying is misguided.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Think about this. There is no real hold on the moral behavior of a person if he does not believe in God. In a fight between a person's ego and conscience his ego may well prevail. If you pray your ego has not totally taken over you and you have the moral pressure from the conscience and there is a greater possibility of conscience prevailing than in the former case.

I accept that there are people who do not believe in God and are righteous and vice versa. But under pressures and temptations the former are more likely to yield and change than those who believe in God. So praying to God is a way of accepting that certain things are beyond you and you need the help of that someone who is greater than you. If helps to keep your ego under check than is possible in any other way.

But my question is "Does GOD actually want us to pray?"

Is there any religious text where God says "Please Pray to Me"

Even in Geeta all Lord Krishna says is:

sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

"Abandon all varieties of religion(dharma) and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear."

Lord Krishna stresses to Surrender to Him after abandoning every variety of Dharma.

So isnt this a clue that all that needed is Surrender and nothing more.

Does Surrender actually need to be called Prayer??

Cos prayer too would be grouped under Sarva Dharma (all kinds of Dharma) according to this stanza.

So arent we supposed to give up prayer in order to surrender?

 

[prasad1]

Precisely. Puranas are stories meant to entertain.

Sir,
In your post#43,
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/15808-why-do-we-pray-begging-5.html#post235038
You specifically said that puranas do not ask us to pray. I pointed out that the puranas do advocate prayers, and similarly Sangomji pointed out that prayers or praising of Gods is common in Vedas. Further prayer, begging, and praise of God is common in all religions.

Just because the entire world believes that begging of favors from God is the norm, it does not become right.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Sir,
In your post#43,
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/15808-why-do-we-pray-begging-5.html#post235038
You specifically said that puranas do not ask us to pray. I pointed out that the puranas do advocate prayers, and similarly Sangomji pointed out that prayers or praising of Gods is common in Vedas. Further prayer, begging, and praise of God is common in all religions.

Just because the entire world believes that begging of favors from God is the norm, it does not become right.

Sangom pointed to the Rig Veda which is a collection of hymns to nature gods. The Ahura Mazda of the Parsis is very similar to the Rig Veda. Man was largely a hunter-gatherer at the time of the Rig Veda and had no need for 'money'.

Begging or beseeching is a fairly recent phenomenon as people started craving for material benefits. When they didn't get these benefits, they started asking unseen and non-existent entities for these benefits. This constitutes "prayer" as it exists now. Whether it is a defeaning "alla alla" scream, or a smoke-filled "havan", it is all for material benefits in these times.

X-ian prayers are like silent but deadly farts. You don't mostly hear it but you certainly feel the noxious after effects. The putrid odor might dissuade whatever God into granting the benefits being craved for.

 

[sravna]

But my question is "Does GOD actually want us to pray?"

Is there any religious text where God says "Please Pray to Me"

Even in Geeta all Lord Krishna says is:



Lord Krishna stresses to Surrender to Him after abandoning every variety of Dharma.

So isnt this a clue that all that needed is Surrender and nothing more.

Does Surrender actually need to be called Prayer??

Cos prayer too would be grouped under Sarva Dharma (all kinds of Dharma) according to this stanza.

So arent we supposed to give up prayer in order to surrender?

Renuka, you need to proceed in steps. How can you instantly jump to surrender if you first don't believe in praying. When you pray for selfish needs there is still ego but when you surrender it is not there. It has to be step by step

 

[Raji Ram]

Question:

Does God actually want us to pray??

NO! He does not ask us to pray. But Lord Krishna asks to surrender to HIM!

P.S: We pray for OUR peace of mind and also with the hope of getting His blessings to face the problems in life. ray:

 

[prasad1]

Padma Purana - 55,000 verses. Contains the glory of Srimad Bhagavatam;
Varaha Purana - 24,000 verses. Describes different Vrata; Lord Vishnu's glories.
Brahmavaivarta Purana - 18,000 verses. Contains the glories and pastimes of Radha and Krsna.
Bhavisya Purana - 14,500 verses. Contains the glories of devotional service; Prediction of Lord Caitanya.
Linga Purana - 10,000 verses. Contains the glory of Lord Nrsmhadeva; Janardhana; The story of Ambarisha; The glories of Gayatri.

Most of the purans point us to praise and beg for favors.

Till Adi-shankara propounded the Advaita philosophy all major religions (except Buddhism) advocated the God as Royalty and expected human to prayers and begging.

 

[Raji Ram]

........... So arent we supposed to give up prayer in order to surrender?

Dear Renu,

I burst into laughter reading this!

Even if a thief surrenders to the Police, he cringes in front of the police officer.

Similarly, when we wish to surrender to God, we pray! :hail:

P.S: 'Pray tell me!' means please tell me! Here is a poem where it is used:

''I am His Highness' dog at Kew;
Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you?'' — Alexander Pope.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Prasad Sir,

If you consider asking for God's help as 'begging', there is nothing wrong in such begging!

But, it is very wrong to beg to the next door neighbour! :lol:

 

[tks]

But my question is "Does GOD actually want us to pray?"

Is there any religious text where God says "Please Pray to Me"

Even in Geeta all Lord Krishna says is:



Lord Krishna stresses to Surrender to Him after abandoning every variety of Dharma.

So isnt this a clue that all that needed is Surrender and nothing more.

Does Surrender actually need to be called Prayer??

Cos prayer too would be grouped under Sarva Dharma (all kinds of Dharma) according to this stanza.

So arent we supposed to give up prayer in order to surrender?

Before asking 'Does God want us to pray' one has to ask what is God...and there will be all kinds of answers - last time God thread was in focus for almost a year!

If the definition is that he is she is an all powerful creator of all beings why should he or she want to say 'come and pray to me ' or even say 'Here I am : surrender to me'

That would make anyone with all the power stupid expecting surrender of the beings he or she created and that too created with pairs of opposite traits.

The so called terrorists he or she created prayed too thinking they are doing God's work.

Even if one thinks they are ready to surrender they can do only once. There cannot be another opportunity since there will be nothing available to surrender.


One possible conclusion is that human beings are able to take many of the quotes from various scriptures - be it Vedic hymns, Vedantic teaching, Puranic stories, B.Gita and whatever else is there in order to come up with an interpretation of their own choosing mirroring what they are actually about !

 

[tks]

Sir I do not disagree with your post.
My post was in GD section and not in the religious section. I do not know enough to criticizes others for their ways, but for myself I had this doubt, and I wanted some clarification.

Sri Prasad ji - My post was not directed at you at all though I used the OP to reply and was just trying to make general points. I understand where you are coming from ..

Regards

 

[ashwin_ash]

Padma Purana - 55,000 verses. Contains the glory of Srimad Bhagavatam;
Varaha Purana - 24,000 verses. Describes different Vrata; Lord Vishnu's glories.
Brahmavaivarta Purana - 18,000 verses. Contains the glories and pastimes of Radha and Krsna.
Bhavisya Purana - 14,500 verses. Contains the glories of devotional service; Prediction of Lord Caitanya.
Linga Purana - 10,000 verses. Contains the glory of Lord Nrsmhadeva; Janardhana; The story of Ambarisha; The glories of Gayatri.

Most of the purans point us to praise and beg for favors.

Till Adi-shankara propounded the Advaita philosophy all major religions (except Buddhism) advocated the God as Royalty and expected human to prayers and begging.

Adi Sankara's Tantric masterpiece Saundarya Lahari described how to pray to geometric patterns which is as absurd as it gets. As bad as X-ian farts or alla alla.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Prasad Sir,

If you consider asking for God's help as 'begging', there is nothing wrong in such begging!

But, it is very wrong to beg to the next door neighbour! :lol:

If you expect God to play favorites then begging might be warranted. I do not consider Brahman or Paramatma to play favorites. The next door neighbor might be of more help in emergency than the God. Or the next door neighbor might be the god, if we are able to see it. LOL

 

[prasad1]

Adi Sankara's Tantric masterpiece Saundarya Lahari described how to pray to geometric patterns which is as absurd as it gets. As bad as X-ian farts or alla alla.

Are you sure that Adi-shankara composed those hymns?

Or kanadhara strotram. It seems so far out of character.

It seems like the arsonist-firefighter.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Are you sure that Adi-shankara composed those hymns?

Prasad, I give up. You can even defeat Arnab Goswami in playing the devil's advocate. But yes, Sankara did compose those hymns (if a Sankara existed at all, some say he lived up to 100 else he could not have done everything attributed him), as well as another tantric masterpiece Lalita Sahasranama which also alludes to geometric designs.