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why do we need Dwarapalakas in temples?

prasad1

Well-known member
If God is to be approachable why do we need Dwarpalakas?

I can understand if God=king, he might need protection, but is God the king.
That seems so limited god. Not GOD.



I understand the security needs in temples, because of wealth, and terrorists.
 
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Jaykay767

Well-known member
The key to this understanding is what / who did our ancients think of as God ?

for our ancients, a human being like a wise man, a sanyasi, a warrior or a king who helped them in critical need or helped them from the jaws of death were actually gods for them.

And they believed that such souls can continue to help solve their problems even if they have moved to the after life.

So the gods or deities we worship today were mostly our ancient kings who protected our ancestors from the enemies. And the belief is that if we pray to them, then they will protect us and help us today.

our philosophy supports this, as souls are from Brahman and they are eternal and they continue to exist beyond this life either.

so if souls are from Brahman, then the best way to reach Brahman is by praying to them.

Dwarapalakas are more sumbolic and that it is easier to reach the kings aka gods via them !!
 

renuka

Well-known member
The key to this understanding is what / who did our ancients think of as God ?

for our ancients, a human being like a wise man, a sanyasi, a warrior or a king who helped them in critical need or helped them from the jaws of death were actually gods for them.

And they believed that such souls can continue to help solve their problems even if they have moved to the after life.

So the gods or deities we worship today were mostly our ancient kings who protected our ancestors from the enemies. And the belief is that if we pray to them, then they will protect us and help us today.

our philosophy supports this, as souls are from Brahman and they are eternal and they continue to exist beyond this life either.

so if souls are from Brahman, then the best way to reach Brahman is by praying to them.

Dwarapalakas are more sumbolic and that it is easier to reach the kings aka gods via them !!
???

Why cant we approach God direct tru prayer instead of going tru so many layers?

Why do we build layers and layers around ourselves instead of peeling those layers off and reach the core that ""There is none but God"...is this so hard ?
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
???

Why cant we approach God direct tru prayer instead of going tru so many layers?

Why do we build layers and layers around ourselves instead of peeling those layers off and reach the core that ""There is none but God"...is this so hard ?
There are many ways to God and our religion supports all possible theology !! The human being beyond the basic food water shelter, always seeks the one beyond and the one supreme and the one God.

This is is part of our DNA, and is inherently in our nature, another key reason to believe that there exist someone, something that is supreme and like bees drawn to honey, we seek him !!!
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
I will also pen a note on the nature of soul, how the soul can detach itself from the human body and then transmigrate to another body or world.

in short, as one continues to meditate, the mind has to suffer the karmic emotions, and then after extensive Sadana or penance, it detaches from all of them - fear love hate anger bliss etc....and then the soul becomes totally free of the bondage and can leave the body.

our philosophers like Shankara were absolutely able to achieve this and wrote about the transmigration.

this is how they were able to prove that soul exists beyond the body. Buddhism believes that at this stage the soul is liberated and disappears into sunyam or nothingness.

Shankara says we will see the unmanifested reality (unknown to us so far) after this sunyam and then the cosmic soul or Brahman !!!

at this stage the soul merges with the Brahman !! Hence the famous aham brahmasmi !!!
 
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Jaykay767

Well-known member
Now you know why Adi Shankara is hailed as the first guru for all of us !! And his teachings reverberate across the centuries and generations !!
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
My interpretation based on our scriptures, the human beings (Rakshasan aka Satan) stops after conquering all fears through meditation, penance, and so he is left with hate, anger, happiness and sin. Since he has no fear of anything, not even the fear of karma or retribution, he tortures people to satiate his anger hatred.

He he goes after others wives wealth etc..to enjoy the material world and in the process kills those who oppose him or recruits them to do his bidding.

this is also called demonic possession in Christian theology, and his enacted in all our Tamil villages as people who are possessed by either angels or demons !!!

and the reason why our ancestors called the maha Brahmanan Ravana as rakshasan as he fell for his emotions and kidnapped Sita.

Such souls ups are condemned to eternal suffering or hell in our scriptures.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
One of the reasons I said way back, everything our religion says is true !!!

one only needs to keep seeking answers for the various questions and the it all fits correctly into the philosophical view.

Modern research is is also catching up with this, for eg, there are extensive research on hypnosis and how one can control the other person and do their bidding through this process.

Multiple reports on people experiencing soul migration in near death experiences !!
 
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renuka

Well-known member
There are many ways to God and our religion supports all possible theology !! The human being beyond the basic food water shelter, always seeks the one beyond and the one supreme and the one God.

This is is part of our DNA, and is inherently in our nature, another key reason to believe that there exist someone, something that is supreme and like bees drawn to honey, we seek him !!!

I get that.

BTW the bees produce honey.

They are drawn to nectar of flowers.


What I mean is...we can be drawn to God but why have:

1)Door keepers

2)Kula Deivam

3)Istha Deivam



Why do we need so many layers?
 

renuka

Well-known member
My interpretation based on our scriptures, the human beings (Rakshasan aka Satan) stops after conquering all fears through meditation, penance, and so he is left with hate, anger, happiness and sin. Since he has no fear of anything, not even the fear of karma or retribution, he tortures people to satiate his anger hatred.

He he goes after others wives wealth etc..to enjoy the material world and in the process kills those who oppose him or recruits them to do his bidding.

this is also called demonic possession in Christian theology, and his enacted in all our Tamil villages as people who are possessed by either angels or demons !!!

and the reason why our ancestors called the maha Brahmanan Ravana as rakshasan as he fell for his emotions and kidnapped Sita.

Such souls ups are condemned to eternal suffering or hell in our scriptures.

Since when the Satan concept is seen in Hinduism?

None of the prayers starts with

[FONT=&quot]أعوذُ بِٱللَّهِ مِنَ ٱلشَّيۡطَٰنِ ٱلرَّجِيمِ (A’udhu billahi min ash-shaytaan-ir-rajeem)
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I seek Allah’s protection/refuge/shelter from Shaitaan, the Accursed one.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
 

prasad1

Well-known member
What is the origin of Doorkeepers to God?
The whole Vaisnava concept is borrowed from Islam or Christianity.
If only Brahman is one supreme power, and that has the Vedic seal, the bhakti concept is foreign.

Since when the Hindu gods started emulating Abrahamic god concepts?

If good and bad are in Brahman, why would Brahman be partial to one?

If Brahman (not the Abrahamic concept God), is similar to energy, we do not see a good energy and a bad energy?

Yes, we can use energy for good deeds and bad deeds. But inherently a good energy does not fight a bad energy.

All energy follow E=mC2
 

prasad1

Well-known member
As a social movement, the Bhakti movement in Karnataka, and indeed everywhere in India, challenged caste hierarchy, emphasized the individual's direct connection to god and the possibility of salvation for all through good deeds and simple living. As a literary movement, it liberated poetry from singing the praises of kings and introduced spiritual themes. From a style point of view, it introduced simple and accessible styles like vachanas (in Kannada) and other forms in various languages to literature and ended the hegemony of Sanskrit metrical forms.


In neighbouring Maharashtra, the Bhakti movement began in the late 13th century. Its proponents were known as the Varkaris. Among its most popular figures were Jnanadev (1275- 96), Namdev (1270-50) and Tukaram (1608-50), who have left behind many verses that embody the essence of Bhakti.

Tukaram was a rebel in more ways than one. A Shudra by caste, he became a merchant. Later, defying the injunctions of the Brahmins, Tukaram chose to write on religious matters, and that too in Marathi, the language of the people.
That a Shudra chose to write was itself unacceptable to the Brahmins. Writing on religious matters in Marathi and not in Sanskrit was yet another issue. Forced by the orthodoxy to throw his manuscripts into the river, legend has it that Tukaram undertook a fast unto death and after the 13th day, his sunken notebooks appeared from the river, undamaged.
The story itself is probably apocryphal, but nevertheless illustrates the extent to which society is prepared to go to silence the rebel.



In northern India, from the 13th to the 17th centuries, a large number of poets flourished who were all Bhakti figures of considerable importance. At times, speaking of a formless god, sometimes centring their devotion on a preferred god (ishtdevata), these poets have left behind a considerable body of literature in Awadhi, Bhojpuri, Punjabi, Maithili and a number of other languages.
Almost always instinctively rebellious, these poets played an important role in laying the foundation for a reconfiguration of society on more equitable lines. Several strains of thinking emerged out of their efforts.
Kabir, the renowned saint of northern India, falls squarely in this tradition of singer-songwriter-critic. Living in the 13th and 14th centuries (the exact dates are disputed, but fall between 1398 and 1518), Kabir upturned the religious notions and social conventions of his time.
Kabir preached a monotheism that appealed directly to the poor and assured them of their access to god without an intermediary. He rejected both Hinduism and Islam, as well as empty religious rituals, and denounced hypocrisy. This outraged the orthodox gentry.


https://www.livemint.com/Sundayapp/0irwa2rMY1lUJKtPEtX4sO/A-brief-history-of-the-Bhakti-movement.html



None of them had the Vedic seal of approval, how and why it got incorporated in Hinduism?
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
I get that.

BTW the bees produce honey.

They are drawn to nectar of flowers.


What I mean is...we can be drawn to God but why have:

1)Door keepers

2)Kula Deivam

3)Istha Deivam



Why do we need so many layers?
My point is why not ?? Why not have multiple gods ? Multiple Angels ?

in the Advaita, Shankara says everything in this world, is a manifestation of the Brahman.

Then I can pray to anyone or anything in this world and reach Brahman !!

so why should people not worship multiple gods and idols ??
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Since when the Satan concept is seen in Hinduism?

None of the prayers starts with

أعوذُ بِٱللَّهِ مِنَ ٱلشَّيۡطَٰنِ ٱلرَّجِيمِ (A’udhu billahi min ash-shaytaan-ir-rajeem)
I seek Allah’s protection/refuge/shelter from Shaitaan, the Accursed one.

Satan concept is quite evolved in the abrahamic religions. But Hinduism has always talked about rakshasas and asuras at length which is aka demons aka satanism.

And my view is that satanism originates from our religion and you will be surprised from where it comes. But discussion for another day.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
What is the origin of Doorkeepers to God?
The whole Vaisnava concept is borrowed from Islam or Christianity.
If only Brahman is one supreme power, and that has the Vedic seal, the bhakti concept is foreign.

Since when the Hindu gods started emulating Abrahamic god concepts?

If good and bad are in Brahman, why would Brahman be partial to one?

If Brahman (not the Abrahamic concept God), is similar to energy, we do not see a good energy and a bad energy?

Yes, we can use energy for good deeds and bad deeds. But inherently a good energy does not fight a bad energy.

All energy follow E=mC2

Not the case. So let me explain. The bakthi concept has always existed in the Hinduism religion. It originated from the ancient prayers and the belief that prayers can lead us to moksham or liberation.

If you look at Shaivism and Vaishnavism prior to Shankara's Advaita, you will find scores of devotees praying to Lord shiva, Vishnu, Ganesha and Subramanyan/ Murugan, etc.. Concept of Kailasam comes from this movement, though it took a backseat after Shankara's path breaking advaitam,

post shankara's Advaita, the bakthi movement took a backseat for the shaivaites, and Advaita vedantam became the principle text for us. However Vaishnavism continued the bakthi movement and evolved into a separate cult.

thats why the heaven aka kailasam concept has much less relevance for shaivaites due to the advaitic influence but for Vaishnavites, the concept of Vaikuntam continues to be central.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
The traditional Hindu thought prior to Shankara was that one can achieve moksham after death if we pray to God and accumulate a lot of good karmas. So these good karmas can lead us to kailasam or Vaikuntam.

Shankara is the first to say that we can attain jivanmukthi, that is liberate oneself in this and even while living !!! That the soul can free from all bondage and liberate from the body and merge with the cosmic Purusha or Cosmic soul or Brahman without having to die !!!

He also demonstrates this by soul transmigration to another body and back !!
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
The doorkeeper concept is not alien to our Hindu thought. The concept of chitraguptan keeping a record of all good and bad karmas and that he will judge, decide and punish us in this life and the next !!
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Dualism was always the default Hindu thought prior to Shankara. That mind and matter are different. Atman and God are different. Most schools of thought talk about dualism.

It is shankara who propounds the concept of non dualism and that all are a manifestation of the ultimate reality Brahman and the concept of maya !!
 

renuka

Well-known member
Wow...Jaykay ji..so you are saying prior to Shankara everything was almost Abrahamic?
Satan concept..heaven ..hell.etc?

Then why dont we incorporate Abrahamic religions too into Hinduism? After all there is an Allopanishad.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Not the case. So let me explain. The bakthi concept has always existed in the Hinduism religion. It originated from the ancient prayers and the belief that prayers can lead us to moksham or liberation.

If you look at Shaivism and Vaishnavism prior to Shankara's Advaita, you will find scores of devotees praying to Lord shiva, Vishnu, Ganesha and Subramanyan/ Murugan, etc.. Concept of Kailasam comes from this movement, though it took a backseat after Shankara's path breaking advaitam,

post shankara's Advaita, the bakthi movement took a backseat for the shaivaites, and Advaita vedantam became the principle text for us. However Vaishnavism continued the bakthi movement and evolved into a separate cult.

thats why the heaven aka kailasam concept has much less relevance for shaivaites due to the advaitic influence but for Vaishnavites, the concept of Vaikuntam continues to be central.
Any possibilty Islam influenced Vaishnavaism?
 

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