When Hindus ate beef, India was NEVER conquered

[Vaagmi]

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Narayana!

Its clear enough yaar..I cant get more explicit than this..I will get banned!LOL

Think hard yaar.

OMG! I got it now. As usual, siva sivaaaaa!!!--a hard one at that. LOL.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

You have a point...a Kaupeenam is loose where and does not restrict blood flow..so one is free to rise to all occasions..one the other hand..stitched undergarments are slightly restrictive to blood flow...there is an unproven theory that the male species does not really use grey matter to think but uses the matter that can produce various shades of grey!
True freedom is when the other "mind" is totally free..therefore people did not fall prey to invaders back then!LOL

How nice and enterprising it is to note that a woman talks about a male under garment i.e. Komanam (we are Tamilians - let us use Tamil word) and its usefulness.

I expect such interesting news about male 'samacharams' in future.

Ram Ram Sitharam.

 

[Vaagmi]

How nice and enterprising it is to note that a woman talks about a male under garment i.e. Komanam (we are Tamilians - let us use Tamil word) and its usefulness.

I expect such interesting news about male 'samacharams' in future.

Ram Ram Sitharam.

Renukaji,

Thank God. You are not a vadama or brahacharanam or any other iyer woman. Otherwise you would have suffered a Jati prashtam by now.

You have acquired forbidden knowledge about things like male undergarments and spoken about the secret without bothering to keep it under wraps.. So you need to be weeded out and the caste has to be preserved in its pristine purity. LOL.

 

[renuka]

How nice and enterprising it is to note that a woman talks about a male under garment i.e. Komanam (we are Tamilians - let us use Tamil word) and its usefulness.

I expect such interesting news about male 'samacharams' in future.

Ram Ram Sitharam.

Thank you..I agree with you very few females usually talk about this topic.

For me I have acquired some amount of "Sama Darshinah".....that when I see anything all I see is the substratum.

For example when I see a fabric of any kind be it even an undergarment of any gender..all I see is the thread that holds the fabric together...we can even learn about life by merely glancing at a garment..that is ..we are are held in place by the threads of Existence and we give the garments various names and positions and also become shy in the process to even mention some types of garments.

This shyness comes about becos of some degree of Tamas in us..after being able to transcend Tamas we might become a little Rajas and strut about proudly proclaiming that our garments are better than anothers..then after a while we transcend even that stage and become Sattva..in Sattva one just looks at the garment as a garment and nothing more..but at Sattva stage one still identifies with the body..so a garment is still needed.

Then comes the next level when one does not identify with the body..the garment has served it purpose and is not needed anymore..that is when even a kaupeenam/komanam/langothi becomes meaningless and a person embraces directions as his garment..the purest stage..the Digambaram.


Avdhut Chintan Shri Gurudev Datt
Digambara Digambara Shree Paad Vallabha Digambara

 

[renuka]

Renukaji,

Thank God. You are not a vadama or brahacharanam or any other iyer woman. Otherwise you would have suffered a Jati prashtam by now.

You have acquired forbidden knowledge about things like male undergarments and spoken about the secret without bothering to keep it under wraps.. So you need to be weeded out and the caste has to be preserved in its pristine purity. LOL.

Dear Vaagmi ji,

There is no knowledge that is forbidden..its a female that knows more about anything male or female cos a female nurtures both male and female off springs.

Its only a female that has the ability to look at an older adult male and consider him a child.

Coming to Jati Prastham and being weeded out to maintain purity of the community..I would accept whatever sentence cos all I need to call out is Narayana! Narayana! and I will be saved..cos Bhagavan Bina Koi Apna Nahi...Hari Natha Bina Paramatma Nahi

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Doctor Mam,

These digambaras believe to have some relation with ghosts!!

They claim company with ghosts and do live in cemeteries as part of their holy path to attain moksa (the forth and final asrama, - asrama .....rama.... rama… ada rama….???

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Thank you..I agree with you very few females usually talk about this topic.

Some members are still living in Ramayana period. Thru this forum, they should be brought to the modern world. Women have every right to talk about men, their sensitivities, including inner garments. Carry on.

The moment Ramanuja left Smartha sect (Vadama fold) with his followers from other sects, the purity of Smarthas has vanished.

 

[renuka]

The moment Ramanuja left Smartha sect (Vadama fold) with his followers from other sects, the purity of Smarthas has vanished.

Dear Chandru,

Can any sect actually lose their purity?

I feel purity of any sect follows the principle of "This is Pure..That is Pure..Purity comes out from Purity..even if Purity is removed what verily remains is Purity"

Technically Purity can not be quantified cos its a state of mind.

 

[renuka]

Doctor Mam,

These digambaras believe to have some relation with ghosts!!

They claim company with ghosts and do live in cemeteries as part of their holy path to attain moksa (the forth and final asrama, - asrama .....rama.... rama… ada rama….???

Dear Bala sir,

I guess then we can classify Digambaras as Bhutambaras!

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Dear Chandru,

Can any sect actually lose their purity?

I feel purity of any sect follows the principle of "This is Pure..That is Pure..Purity comes out from Purity..even if Purity is removed what verily remains is Purity"

Technically Purity can not be quantified cos its a state of mind.

Madam,

While purity may not be quantified, it can at least be identified, when it stands alone. If milk is not mixed with water, we can presume it is pure, as there is no foreign material in it. Similarly, when somebody leaves from his original place and joins another or creates a separate space for himself/herself, purity will come under strain.

 

[Vaagmi]

Vadama woman do not call a kaupeenam a kaupeenam in order to maintain their caste purity. They call it a kerchief or a turban cloth. LOL.

 

[renuka]

Madam,

While purity may not be quantified, it can at least be identified, when it stands alone. If milk is not mixed with water, we can presume it is pure, as there is no foreign material in it. Similarly, when somebody leaves from his original place and joins another or creates a separate space for himself/herself, purity will come under strain.

dear Chandru,

Worry not...the purity has not come under strain..you can look at it this way..

Smartaism was the substratum for the emergence of Vaishnavaism..the Canvas was Smartaism and Ramanuja painted Vaishnavism on it.

 

[Vaagmi]

Nonsense born out of ignorance of facts and history.

1.Ramanuja was not vadama.

2. Vaishnavam existed much before Ramanuja coming into the picture.

Alwars were born earlier to Ramanuja by centuries.

Vaishnavam is the oldest religion of Tamils.

Read history first before inventing non existent canvasses. LOL.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Dear Bala sir,

I guess then we can classify Digambaras as Bhutambaras!

Doctor Mam,

They cannot be classified as either Digambara or Bhutambara - they don’t even long for a Peetambara..

They simply roam like sky-clad representing true human practising absolute detachment from the material world.

Some call them as AGHORI SADHUS.

 

[renuka]

Nonsense born out of ignorance of facts and history.

1.Ramanuja was not vadama.

2. Vaishnavam existed much before Ramanuja coming into the picture.

Alwars were born earlier to Ramanuja by centuries.

Vaishnavam is the oldest religion of Tamils.

Read history first before inventing non existent canvasses. LOL.

Dear Vaagmi ji,

I am a very conservative person who does not even know how to spell nansense correctly...see I spelt it wrong cos I almost never use that word!LOL

Thank you very much for enlightening me about facts I never knew before.

In fact it comes as a total shock that Vaishnavaism is the oldest religion of Tamils.

I wonder what Chandru will have to say about this?

I always thought that Shaivasim was older..not that it really matters which is older cos for me Shiva and Vishnu are both the expansion of Brahman.

Ekam Eva Advaitam Brahman.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi ji,

I am a very conservative person who does not even know how to spell nansense correctly...see I spelt it wrong cos I almost never use that word!LOL

Thank you very much for enlightening me about facts I never knew before.

In fact it comes as a total shock that Vaishnavaism is the oldest religion of Tamils.

I wonder what Chandru will have to say about this?

I always thought that Shaivasim was older..not that it really matters which is older cos for me Shiva and Vishnu are both the expansion of Brahman.

Ekam Eva Advaitam Brahman.

Dear Conservative friend,

This is for you from the history:

........More than a thousand years ago a pious brahman, Asuri Kesavacharya by name, lived in this village (Sriperumbudur). Sri Yamunacharya (Alavandar), after renouncing his throne and accepting the descipleship of Nambi, was at that time living in Srirangam as a mendicant. After the passing away of his Guru, Alavandar was accepted as the leader by the vaishnavite community of the time. His uncommon renunciation, dispassion,erudition, humility and steadfastness towards his chosen Ideal were admired by all the vaishnavas.Devoted vaishnavas coming from all quarters deemed themselves extremely fortunate in being his disciples.

Periya Thirumalai Nambi (also called Sri Sailapurna)of advanced age was Yamunacharya's chief disciple. He too had renounced the life of a householder and lived with his Guru after receiving Sanyasa. He had two sisters. The name of the elder sister was Bhumi Piraatti or Kantimati: the name of the other sister was Periya Piraatti or Mahadevi (also called Sridevi or Dyutimati)

Asuri Kesavacharya of Sriperumbudur married Kantimati and the younger Mahadevi was married to Kamalanayana Bhatta of the nearby Aharam village. After the marriage of his sisters Sri Sailapurna devoted his life to the service of his Guru Yamunacharya.

Asuri Kesavacharya was very much attached to performance of Yajnas and so was called "sarvakratu". After their marriage the couple were living happily in Sriperumbudur. As no child was born to them, Kesavacharya began to feel concerned. The idea of performing a yajna arose in his mind. He remembered the scriptural statement " Yajna Eva parO dharmO bhagavadprItikArakaha , abhIshta karmadhug yajnasthasmAthyajnaha, parA ghatihi." He decided to go to Sri Parthasarathi,the dweller of Vrindaranya on the shores of the sea with a view to perform the yajna. After reaching Vrindaranya (Thiru Allikkeni)they performed the yajnas there. On completing the yajna, Kesavacharya had a dream and heard Lord address him and tell him that He himself would be born as his son. A year later Kantimati gave birth to a son who came to be known as Ramanuja. He was born in 939 of the Saka Era (4118 of Kali Era and 1017 of Christian Era on Thursday, the 12 of Chaitra, in the fifth day of the bright fortnight, when the sun was in the zodiac of Cancer in the year Pingala. His natal star was Ardra, the sixth lunar mansion. He belonged to the Harita lineage and Yajur Veda.............

This is an extract from the book written by Swami Ramakrishnananda in the year 1897. He lived in Bengal and came to South to study and understand Ramanuja's philosophy. The original was written as Sri Ramanuja-charita in Bengali. In Bengali Literary circles this work is considered to be a classic.

English translations are available in Chennai.

 

[biswa]

This is an extract from the book written by Swami Ramakrishnananda in the year 1897. He lived in Bengal and came to South to study and understand Ramanuja's philosophy. The original was written as Sri Ramanuja-charita in Bengali. In Bengali Literary circles this work is considered to be a classic.

English translations are available in Chennai.

Not commenting on other parts of the post, but this part is certainly not true. Sri Ramakrishna never travelled out of Bengal but his disciple Swami Vivekananda certainly did. Here are some biographies:

Ramakrishna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also Sri Ramakrishna was quite illiterate and never wrote any book. His teaching are all in the manner of stories.
SRI RAMAKRISHNA

Swami Vivekananda on the other hand was highly educated.

 

[vgane]

Not commenting on other parts of the post, but this part is certainly not true. Sri Ramakrishna never travelled out of Bengal but his disciple Swami Vivekananda certainly did. Here are some biographies:

Ramakrishna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also Sri Ramakrishna was quite illiterate and never wrote any book. His teaching are all in the manner of stories.
SRI RAMAKRISHNA

Swami Vivekananda on the other hand was highly educated.

Biswaji,

I think Vaagmiji is referring to Ramakrishnananda who was a direct disciple of Sri Ramakrishna...He did travel to Madras as per Wiki & wrote a book "Life of Sri Ramanuja"

Ramakrishnananda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Komanam or Langode may have different names for different sects.

For VK & TK women, it is 'mini madisar' of their men, to retain purity.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

As per Wikipedia, following is the information about Ramanuja:

QUOTE

Ramanuja was born Ilaya Perumal in a Brahmin family in the village of Perumbudur, Tamil Nadu, India. His father was Asuri Keshava Somayaji Deekshitar and mother was Kanthimathi.

UNQUOTE

Deekshidar and Kanthimathi are exclusive Shaivite or Smartha names.

Conveniently, the Somayaji Deekshidar has been changed to Acharya to suit some vested interests, retaining the prefix 'Asuri Kesava'.

We don't have proper history of a person who belonged to 10th or 11th Century. But we are crying about Ramar Bridge.

 

[Vaagmi]

Post # 43 is the answer for point raised in post # 42. You got it right vganeji.

 

[Vaagmi]

As per Wikipedia, following is the information about Ramanuja:

QUOTE

Ramanuja was born Ilaya Perumal in a Brahmin family in the village of Perumbudur, Tamil Nadu, India. His father was Asuri Keshava Somayaji Deekshitar and mother was Kanthimathi.

UNQUOTE

Deekshidar and Kanthimathi are exclusive Shaivite or Smartha names.

Conveniently, the Somayaji Deekshidar has been changed to Acharya to suit some vested interests, retaining the prefix 'Asuri Kesava'.

We don't have proper history of a person who belonged to 10th or 11th Century. But we are crying about Ramar Bridge.

1.This is what Wiki has to say about Dikshitas.

quote

"Dikshit or Dikshitar (/ˈdɪkʃɪt/) (Hindi: दीक्षित) is a Hindu family name. The word is an adjective form of the Sanskritword diksha, meaning provider of knowledge. Dikshit in Sanskrit derives itself as a person involved in scientific studies, and literally translates as "one who has received initiation or one who is initiated". The surname is usually associated with people from the Brahmin community among Hindus in India. People with this surname have their roots in the Indian states of Rajasthan, Kashmir, Punjab, Uttar Pradesh, Gujarat, Maharashtra, Himachal Pradesh and some parts ofOrissa and South India.
Origin

The Dikshit surname suggests that somebody in the family lineage, perhaps several generations ago, must have had some form of formal initiation into some religious tradition or studious body of knowledge. Historically, Dixits have been usually associated with professions related to knowledge, teachers and scholars"

unquote.

Actually the vaishnavas deserve the name Dikshit more than the other brahmins because unlike others Vaishnavas do take a Diksha/initiation when the pancha samskaram is done.

2. Somayaji is the name obtained from the performance of a certain yajna and any brahmin could be a somayaji.

3. Kantimati is the name of Bhoomi Devi just as the name Dyutimati is that of Sridevi. If smarthas want to appropriate that name to themselves exclusively vaishnavites may not agree. Kantimati's brother was a srivaishnava who was with Alavandar.

4. And Asuri Keshava did the yajna at Thiru Allikeni (Triplicane of today) and not at Mylapore. He did it to pray to Narayana.

5. Ramakrishnananda whom I had quoted was from the Advaitic school of Ramakrishna Paramhamsa. In fact he was a direct disciple of Ramakrishna Paramhamsa. And the word has come from the mouth of the horse. I deleberately quoted Ramakrishnananda.

I do not intend to continue this argument any further in the absence of any acceptable (acceptable to a unbiased neutral observer) internal or external evidence to prove that Ramanuja was a vadama to start with.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

The extract of Swami Ramakrishnananda narrates the following:

Kantimathi : Mother of Ramanuja

Kanthmathi : Sister of Ramanuja
Mahadevi : -do-

The names of Kanthimathi and Mahadevi are Saivite names. One of the names of Lord Shiva is Mahadeva. Mahadevi therefore is the name of Goddess Parvathi. Similarly, the name Kanthimathi relates to Goddess Parvathi. The Goddess' name of Tirunelveli Nelliappar temple is Kanthimathi.

Ramanuja's father Kesavacharya probably belonged to Advaida Sect. The head of Sankara Mutts is called Sankaracharya. It is said Ramanuja's teacher was an Advaidee.

It is, therefore, no doubt Ramanuja was a born Vadama.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

If the term Dikshit relates to knolwedge, teachers and scholars, are Smarthas short of it?

Even Ramanuja, the Vadama turned Vaishnava, is being treated as a scholar.

 

[vgane]

Coming back to the topic, read an interesting article on Beef and Colonization by Dr Vamsee Krishna Juluri..Beef indeed has hurt freedom more than any non beef ban!


Beef Has Hurt Freedom Far More than any Beef-Ban


The pro-beef lobby has been incredibly oblivious to the devastating role that the demand for beef has played in human history.



The discussion about beef in most of the major Indian media outlets (and their colonial cousins in London and elsewhere) has been incredibly oblivious to the real questions surrounding the choice to kill animals in general and cattle in particular for human consumption. Typically, major English language news channels, magazines, and newspapers have presented the issue as nothing more than an infringement on the freedom of citizens to eat what they want.


This notion of infringement seems to have been doubly tweaked so as to please two ends of the beef-eating spectrum. On one end, celebrities and aspirational lifestyle figures have lectured us on how we natives (or they might have said “nativists”) are trampling like medieval despots on the modern, enlightened glitterati who would just rather eat whatever they feel like. On the other end, activists, academics, and politicians are screaming outrage at what they see as upper-caste Hindutva elites imposing their hegemony on the poor subaltern Indian’s cheap protein. Rich and poor, it seems, have been wronged here.


But underlying this terribly (and self-servingly) two-faced but one-sided debate is the real issue no one in the major media outlets has talked about. The real issue around beef is not choice, taste, diet, and nutrition, but simply violence.

Protesting a ban on beef, after all, is not like protesting a ban on wearing yellow knickers or jumping up and down on the road. It cannot be caricatured as a ban on some frivolous or harmless sort of liberty.


Insisting on the right to eat beef (or meat, more generally too), is at its core really an insistence on the right to inflict suffering on a living, sentient being for the sake of our pleasure. I know that saying this makes many of us feel judged. But it is not something that an intelligent society, a society that has worshipped intelligence and wisdom for millennia, can skip out of at this time in history.


As I discuss in my new book Rearming Hinduism, what our elders and gurus keep telling us in simple, seemingly simplistic terms about Gau-Maata represents perhaps the last line of defence before a juggernaut of violence in history that has devoured not only the cows that the Secular-Left doesn’t care about, but also the poor, the marginal, and the silent majority of human beings they profess to care so much about.


I don’t know if the poor will be deprived of their protein because of the beef ban, but the truth is that hundreds of millions of peoples’ lives have already been destroyed in the last few centuries as a consequence of beef.


Take the following examples.


1) European Colonialism: The colonization of the world by Spain, Portugal, England, France and other European powers in the last five centuries was one of the most devastating forms of conquest in history for the simple reason that most of the world is still struggling to recover from it. How did it come to be? Was it the mere urge of riches in the Indies, or something more specific? We know that the quest for India and the spice trade was one of its major motivations. But why spices, was it only for their value? According to Jeremy Rifkin, the period before European expansion and colonialism was marked by a huge increase in meat and particularly beef-consumption in parts of Europe, and in the era before refrigeration, spices were the only way they could really disguise the smell and taste of rotting meat.


2) The Irish Potato Famine: We know that Ireland was destroyed by the potato famine. According to Rifkin, the potato-monoculture was precipitated by the overgrazing of lands by cattle destined to be slaughtered for beef.


3) The Native American Dispossession and Genocide: Most schoolchildren in America today are aware about the injustice done to the Native Americans by the European “settlers.” But was it only a land issue? We seldom stop to think about why, exactly, the settlers wanted so much land. The answer, once again, is beef. The early wave of conquistadors, missionaries, and settlers turned South America into a vast grazing land for their cattle. Rifkin describes how there was so much cattle walking around at one time that people used to kill and take whatever bits of meat they wanted, leaving carcasses to lie around and rot across the land. In what is now the United States, the British and US beef business had a direct interest in clearing the land of Native Americans and the native buffalo so that their own commercial cattle could be brought in. In a few short years, the “cowboys” massacred perhaps millions of these great, majestic beings, sometimes from specially scheduled trains that went out into the plains and paused wherever the great hordes of buffalo could be seen. Without their buffalo, the Native Americans too became dependent on the settlers, and lost their freedom, land, and in many cases, their lives too.


4) Slavery and Exploitation of Workers: The beef zamindars of South America pretty much brought in a system of slave and near-slave labor to support their business. Then, when the industrial revolution came to America, it was once again the beef industry that remained at the center of some of the most inhumane and exploitative working conditions humanity had witnessed (such as the meat-packing factories we read about in Upton Sinclair’s classic The Jungle). The first big industry to use assembly line techniques with all its debilitating effects on workers was apparently the meat-packing industry centered in Chicago in the early 20[SUP]th[/SUP] century. We don’t realize it, but in many ways beef was to America then what the oil industry has been more recently: the force which seemingly drives everything.


5) Globalization, Fast Food and the Present: It is one of the most tragic ironies of our time that while concerned citizens in the West are desperately trying to move away from the environmentally devastating and exploitative fast food-burger culture, our idea of being good citizens in India seems to be blindly advocating for greater dependence on a truly pernicious and socially and environmentally costly form of dietary pleasure. Books like Eric Schlosser’s Fast Food Nation have shown us how the seemingly cheap burger that is consumed by so many around the world actually carries a crippling price-tag. Beef is the most energy-intensive form of meat to produce, and forests, farms, land, water are diverted just for its sake. Its impact on climate change is also said to be very worrying. And yet, here we are in India promoting the argument that somehow what has been historically one of the most politically, socially, and environmentally irresponsible choices of food is a great and noble cause.


It is my sincere hope that all those who hold the cow dear and sacred, and have resisted the callous propaganda of Macaulayite education and McDonald’s advertising, will find in these facts the conviction to refute the shallow and ignorant arguments of our day. It is important however to not ignore the concerns of the people who might be affected by a quick and sudden step like a ban, and perhaps the concerned activists and NGOs can work with them to ease them into less violent and unsafe livelihoods.


But the heart of the matter is still only this.


For several thousand years, Indian civilization held one line dear to its heart, even though it has had to concede several others. It stood stoic as people came from far and wide, from places so removed from history that they did not recognize that human beings could live without taking a single animal life for food. Today, after centuries of colonization, we have forgotten much of our own wisdom, believing in the propaganda of the less fortunate. We must therefore stop, think, and decolonize further. We must look sharply at the stories we are being told about diet, nutrition, evolution, animals, and life itself, and learn to critique them accurately and effectively.


We may not be able to dictate vast changes in heart or policy immediately, but we must learn to view things as they are, and not what a deluded imperial propaganda system has told us for several centuries now, first as pseudo-religion, and then as pseudo-science.


In the end, if your heart seems to tell you that a cow’s eyes are looking at you as a mother would at a child, or indeed as the Mother of the Universe would at all of us, remember that this is no sentimental superstition, but a deep truth the universe has preserved somehow in you. Believe it, know it, and speak it.


References and further reading:

Eric Schlosser (2002). Fast Food Nation: The Dark Side of the All American Meal. New York: Harper Perennial.

Florian Werner (2011). Cow: A Bovine Biography. Vancouver: Greystone.

Jeremy Rifkin (1993). Beyond Beef: The Rise and Fall of the Cattle Culture. New York: Plume.

Tristram Stuart (2006). The Bloodless Revolution: Radical Vegetarians and the Discovery of India. New York: Harper.

Vaclav Smil (2012). Should We Eat Meat? Evolution and Consequences of Modern Carnivory. Chichester: Wiley-Blackwell.

Vamsee Juluri

Dr. Vamsee Krishna Juluri is a professor of media studies at the University of San Francisco and the author of Rearming Hinduism (www.rearming hinduism.com).


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