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What aspects of TB culture is worth preserving and why?

prasad1

Well-known member
What aspect of culture is just a routine function? Like brushing your teeth.
What aspect of culture is religious? Like going to Temple(?), but even that may be a routine.
What aspect of culture is ignorance? Superstition like sneezing, black cat, etc.
What aspect of culture is guilt? That something bad will happen if you do not do certain things.
What aspect of culture is group behavior? Doing it without any reason, so that you will not be ostracized by other group members.
So on, and on.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Perhaps for a fool, even a person who states simple truths will appear as mahamedhaavi only.

What is this person's contribution exactly to this thread other than repeating his usual bunch of silly questions? If he believes there is no such thing as a brahmin community, Why is he here? This is an honest question he should ask himself. Instead he will go on and on on a rant about rules of the forum etc Does he realize that it is exactly this type of response that the OP wanted to minimize and hence the request was originally made.

Even if a membership in a community is largely determined based on birth, it still does not preclude the members from having a set of rules or principles to adhere to or having a set of activities to indulge in as a community etc. That is the purpose of the thread.
Crows with peacock feathers do not belong to the flocks.
The OP was cast based and wanted his own views echoed back, that is against any public group norms.
So <edited> would get you nowhere.
 
Crows with peacock feathers do not belong to the flocks.
The OP was cast based and wanted his own views echoed back, that is against any public group norms.
So strutting would get you nowhere.
Perhaps this member should stick to his usual cut copy and paste items. Even that is tolerable to his other posts which often is devoid of any sense.

First, the term culture. It this poster stuck to his expertise - which is googling, he would realize that the term culture is defined with respect to a group and not that of an individual. For example, here are some definitions from the web..

"the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively"

Or

"the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group"

Or

"the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group
also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (such as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time".

Culture is not a term to denote an individualistic trait as this poster claims. Therefore it is okay to discuss the culture of tamil brahmins. <removed for personal attack. Kindly refrain from such posts>

For any group it is true that neither all will follow all the customs nor all will have all the traits etc. This is true for any group. There are going to be exceptions. That does not mean that the culture is "individualistic" -rather there are individuals who won't fit the description well as defined by culture. That is okay. It is not as if anyone is pronouncing a fatwa against these individuals. That is not TB culture. <removed for personal attack. Kindly refrain from such posts>

The reference to earlier threads prove that this poster has this kind of reaction anytime a discussion on TB culture is initiated. Why is he so insecure, only God knows perhaps.

When we grew up, learning some sort of classical art is emphasized. A lot of our relatives, if not exponents, at least understood carnatic music. We can encourage the newer generation to continue this tradition.

Someone mentioned association with kanchi mutts etc. When brahmins started moving away from their homeland, many families lost their connection to their mutt. Now technology has greatly reduced the distance even between different countries. This connection can now be rekindled.

Teaching slokas to kids has never been easier. Everything is available in youtube.

So many such things that were part of TB culture, the community can focus on again.

Ignore the naysayers.
 
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prasad1

Well-known member
Any normal person would know that all custom originates with one person doing it and getting a bunch of his/her chamchas following it. That is how a group functions.

Culture is not a term to denote an individualistic trait as this poster claims. Therefore it is okay to discuss the culture of tamil brahmins. This poster need not jump up and down like a monkey because some one initiated a discussion.
Then again what can you expect from a person like you?

If one is ignorant and accepts it, at least they can be educated, If ignorant and not know about it can be excused, but the one who is ignorant and proud of it, God alone can save them.
 

a-TB

Well-known member
Perhaps this member should stick to his usual cut copy and paste items. Even that is tolerable to his other posts which often is devoid of any sense.

First, the term culture. It this poster stuck to his expertise - which is googling, he would realize that the term culture is defined with respect to a group and not that of an individual. For example, here are some definitions from the web..

"the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively"

Or

"the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group"

Or

"the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group
also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (such as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time".

Culture is not a term to denote an individualistic trait as this poster claims. Therefore it is okay to discuss the culture of tamil brahmins. This poster need not jump up and down like a monkey because some one initiated a discussion.

For any group it is true that neither all will follow all the customs nor all will have all the traits etc. This is true for any group. There are going to be exceptions. That does not mean that the culture is "individualistic" -rather there are individuals who won't fit the description well as defined by culture. That is okay. It is not as if anyone is pronouncing a fatwa against these individuals. That is not TB culture. Ironically, these people, who jump up and down like a monkey, fawn over the religions that do pronounce fatwa on these type of issues!

The reference to earlier threads prove that this poster has this kind of reaction anytime a discussion on TB culture is initiated. Why is he so insecure, only God knows perhaps.

When we grew up, learning some sort of classical art is emphasized. A lot of our relatives, if not exponents, at least understood carnatic music. We can encourage the newer generation to continue this tradition.

Someone mentioned association with kanchi mutts etc. When brahmins started moving away from their homeland, many families lost their connection to their mutt. Now technology has greatly reduced the distance even between different countries. This connection can now be rekindled.

Teaching slokas to kids has never been easier. Everything is available in youtube.

So many such things that were part of TB culture, the community can focus on again.

Ignore the naysayers.
Mr KB,

You have made excellent suggestions for specific aspects of a TB culture found in many TB families. This does not mean other cultures and castes cannot follow them (but that is not the point of this thread)

To quote Mr Brahmanyan - essence of Brahmin life style as said in Gita is "Austerity, purity, patience, integrity, knowledge, wisdom, and belief in a hereafter—these are the intrinsic qualities of work for Brahmins. "

It occurred to me something that may be obvious to many thoughtful people here already.

The genius of TB culture is that it took the above values mentioned in Gita and codified to something that can be followed in one's life. I have been learning since coming to this forum by looking up things.

So the aspects of the culture worth preserving are those that are able to live and propagate a "Satvic lifestyle". That is the genius of the culture

For example, if it is Carnatic music, it is about Bhakthi of some kind. There can be differences in the actual God form one may worship but worship is promoted by Carnatic music .

You mentioned teaching kids about sloka recitation. Again it teaches certain attitudes. We also do not kick books etc by feet because we are taught to see god in all those (Saraswathi)

Vegetarian food is good for mind, and body health. As mentioned in another thread in the food section it teaches everyone in the culture about Ahimsa.

There can be variations in families but by and large TB culture promotes Satvic mindset, and lifestyle.

Now I myself and my family are vegetarians. I have done social drinking but I will give that up since it is not satvic and it is not an important part of my life anyway. (I have done things decades earlier like having had girl friends etc , one even wanted to marry me (at America that is). But those days of hormones ruling the thinking are gone). I still do not know the answer as to how the TB culture is not consistent with young people wanting to date etc,

Most marry late and want independence in deciding their life partners. This is true in India also.
So there has to be a happy medium in dealing with these realities.

I am also not sure how to deal with unreasonable and abusive people. If it is ignorance it is one thing but when coupled with pride and arrogance it is not easy. My instincts have been to deal an appropriate blow so the issue is addressed. But that is not a Satvic response.

Satvic values in a culture cannot be viewed as a weakness. But delivering the right response is needed often when dealing with unreasonable people in our lives. Most TB families took the path to run away from Tamil Nadu. Perhaps there are better answers

Welcome comments (but not from the usual suspects that want to come here and fillibuster such discussions with useless/caustic comments).
 

zebra16

Well-known member
Obviously there is a misunderstanding of the term Guest.
We are all Guests in TB Forum. We do not get to make the rules.
If anyone does not like the rules laid down, they are free to leave or request a change of rule.
I have NEVER seen Sri Praveen the owner/administrator address the "Members" as "guests", so why this "GUEST" nomenclature is thrust upon other members, I cannot fathom.

As found umpteen times in the past, the "Host" formulates rules or changes in the rules in consultation with the participants. So to give the option of "leaving" the forum to one "guest" by another "guest" is akin to usurping the authority of the "Host"
 

Brahmanyan

Well-known member
Mr KB,

You have made excellent suggestions for specific aspects of a TB culture found in many TB families. This does not mean other cultures and castes cannot follow them (but that is not the point of this thread)

To quote Mr Brahmanyan - essence of Brahmin life style as said in Gita is "Austerity, purity, patience, integrity, knowledge, wisdom, and belief in a hereafter—these are the intrinsic qualities of work for Brahmins. "

It occurred to me something that may be obvious to many thoughtful people here already.

The genius of TB culture is that it took the above values mentioned in Gita and codified to something that can be followed in one's life. I have been learning since coming to this forum by looking up things.

So the aspects of the culture worth preserving are those that are able to live and propagate a "Satvic lifestyle". That is the genius of the culture

For example, if it is Carnatic music, it is about Bhakthi of some kind. There can be differences in the actual God form one may worship but worship is promoted by Carnatic music .

You mentioned teaching kids about sloka recitation. Again it teaches certain attitudes. We also do not kick books etc by feet because we are taught to see god in all those (Saraswathi)

Vegetarian food is good for mind, and body health. As mentioned in another thread in the food section it teaches everyone in the culture about Ahimsa.

There can be variations in families but by and large TB culture promotes Satvic mindset, and lifestyle.

Now I myself and my family are vegetarians. I have done social drinking but I will give that up since it is not satvic and it is not an important part of my life anyway. (I have done things decades earlier like having had girl friends etc , one even wanted to marry me (at America that is). But those days of hormones ruling the thinking are gone). I still do not know the answer as to how the TB culture is not consistent with young people wanting to date etc,

Most marry late and want independence in deciding their life partners. This is true in India also.
So there has to be a happy medium in dealing with these realities.

I am also not sure how to deal with unreasonable and abusive people. If it is ignorance it is one thing but when coupled with pride and arrogance it is not easy. My instincts have been to deal an appropriate blow so the issue is addressed. But that is not a Satvic response.

Satvic values in a culture cannot be viewed as a weakness. But delivering the right response is needed often when dealing with unreasonable people in our lives. Most TB families took the path to run away from Tamil Nadu. Perhaps there are better answers

Welcome comments (but not from the usual suspects that want to come here and fillibuster such discussions with useless/caustic comments).
Dear friend,

It is my view any person who follows a disciplined life with compassion and truth is a good human being. It's important that Brahmins as an educated class should adhere to these qualities and show the way to all others.

In recent times, among many others one person showed us how to lead a simple life of high ideals of a Tamil Brahmin. He was Mahmahopadyaya U.V.Swaminatha Aiyar. His autobiography என் சரித்திரம் (My Biography) is a wonderful book. I would suggest every Tamil Brahmin should read to understand how our previous generation lived.
Another book that will guide the present day Tamil Brahmins is " The Dialogues with the Guru", selected questions and answers with the H.H. Chandrasekhar's Bharati, Maha Samigal, of Sringeri Saradha Peedam. Acharya clarifys all our doubts.

Both these books are available in Pdf format to down load.

https://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/utf8/pmuni0544_01.html
http://srisharada.com/QA/QA.htm



Brahmanyan
Bangalore.
 
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prasad1

Well-known member
Dear friend,

It is my view any person who follows a disciplined life with compassion and truth is a good human being. It's important that Brahmins as an educated class should adhere to these qualities and show the way to all others.

In recent times, among many others one person showed us how to lead a simple life of high ideals of a Tamil Brahmin. He was Mahmahopadyaya U.V.Swaminatha Aiyar. His autobiography என் சரித்திரம் (My Biography) is a wonderful book. I would suggest every Tamil Brahmin should read to understand how our previous generation lived.
Another book that will guide the present day Tamil Brahmins is " The Dialogues with the Guru", selected questions and answers with the H.H. Chandrasekhar's Bharati, Maha Samigal, of Sringeri Saradha Peedam. Acharya clarifys all our doubts.

Both these books are available in Pdf format to down load.

https://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/utf8/pmuni0544_01.html
http://srisharada.com/QA/QA.htm



Brahmanyan
Bangalore.
Brahmanyanji,

Your suggestions are applicable to all human beings, and they are wonderful.
They are not TB specific.
As admitted by OP, you can break all TB culture rules (like eating NV food, Drinking Alcohol, having sex outside of marriage etc) and still calling themselves Brahmins.
In addition not following dress codes, not going to temple every day, not doing daily prayers etc.
What TB culture is being preserved or lamented?
So why not allow the same freedom (and some more) to the future generations.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Instead of admitting the mistakes and criticism of the OP, the poster is just doubling down (very typical Trump).

Again Name one specific culture that is uniquely common to Tamil Brahmins alone.

Going to Temple, or place of worship is common in all religion. Chanting prayer is common in all religions.

Being vegetarian is common to many Hindus, Jains, and Buddhists. Again not specific to Tamil Brahmins.
But there are TB who eat NV.
Majority of TB and others do not drink alcohol, but some TB's do.
............. and on and on.

few think that by shouting louder than the person asking a question, they can get away from answering a simple question.

What is a unique and universal trait of Tamil Brahmin?
 
Dear friend,

It is my view any person who follows a disciplined life with compassion and truth is a good human being. It's important that Brahmins as an educated class should adhere to these qualities and show the way to all others.

In recent times, among many others one person showed us how to lead a simple life of high ideals of a Tamil Brahmin. He was Mahmahopadyaya U.V.Swaminatha Aiyar. His autobiography என் சரித்திரம் (My Biography) is a wonderful book. I would suggest every Tamil Brahmin should read to understand how our previous generation lived.
Another book that will guide the present day Tamil Brahmins is " The Dialogues with the Guru", selected questions and answers with the H.H. Chandrasekhar's Bharati, Maha Samigal, of Sringeri Saradha Peedam. Acharya clarifys all our doubts.

Both these books are available in Pdf format to down load.

https://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/utf8/pmuni0544_01.html
http://srisharada.com/QA/QA.htm



Brahmanyan
Bangalore.
Dear Brahmanyan sir, don't provide such references. Some idiot may call you or even the references as chamacha. Lol!
 
In a public forum, one may not avoid suffering idiotic posts. But the moderator rushes to protect calling something out as idiotic but other name calling such as jalra etc stays. In light of this, is it wrong to atleast point to the problems with moderation?

Ok i get it. Moderator reacts only when someone reports. This abusive poster has taken advantage of this.. Abuses others but then runs crying to the moderator when he is paid back in the same coin...

I wish the moderator looks at the whole thread before unceremoniously editing only some posts selectively.
 
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a-TB

Well-known member
Post #44 makes no sense. Moderator may atleast fix the post. Because the senseless post as it stands is attributed to my user ID.
Dear Mr KB,

My understanding is that the moderator has no time to scan all the posts. He can only react to those brought to his attention. The best is to use the Report button to get his attention.

The poster you refer to is known to abuse the forum rules by calling names (unable to stick to a topic) , and write caustic comments (since he is unable to write a post cogently with content that shows understanding of a topic area).

Some people want attention and engagement and would go any length just to be noticed even if that notice is not complimentary. You did a favor by the act of engaging LOL My view - not worth the time.

Most do not engage with abusers of the rules of the forum
 

a-TB

Well-known member
Dear friend,

It is my view any person who follows a disciplined life with compassion and truth is a good human being. It's important that Brahmins as an educated class should adhere to these qualities and show the way to all others.

In recent times, among many others one person showed us how to lead a simple life of high ideals of a Tamil Brahmin. He was Mahmahopadyaya U.V.Swaminatha Aiyar. His autobiography என் சரித்திரம் (My Biography) is a wonderful book. I would suggest every Tamil Brahmin should read to understand how our previous generation lived.
Another book that will guide the present day Tamil Brahmins is " The Dialogues with the Guru", selected questions and answers with the H.H. Chandrasekhar's Bharati, Maha Samigal, of Sringeri Saradha Peedam. Acharya clarifys all our doubts.

Both these books are available in Pdf format to down load.

https://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/utf8/pmuni0544_01.html
http://srisharada.com/QA/QA.htm



Brahmanyan
Bangalore.
Dear Mr Brahmanyan,

Thank you for sharing your views and for two great references.

One seem to have a Vedantic message for leading one's life and the other is autobiography of a TB icon to serve as a role model.

Here is an issue for any group to maintain a culture of any sorts. This is especially difficult if one has to maintain and live by a Satvic culture.

Typically, a group of people live together in an area that helps promote upkeep of a culture. For example, I do not know if you have heard about the Amish culture. There about 20000 or so people still live in a life more closer to 14th century living than 21st century living. They live in many part of USA including near the state of Pennsylvania. They do not use electricity and any major gadgets. They travel by horse drawn carriage and use battery for turn signals. They do farming, build own homes and the entire community participates in building a house for their members.

Unless they lived in a reservation like place there is no way their strict life could be maintained.

Most TBs have left Tamil Nadu and are spread all over the globe. They are subjected to onslaught of the majority culture and values of the local society.

Maintaining a Satvic lifestyle in the midst of all of this is not easy and certainly not for the younger generation. I see many in their late 40s beginning to realize the wisdom in the TB cultural aspects of living.

Because the community is spread apart and will never go back to living in Agraharam style set up I do not know what solutions exist.

Thanks again for great references for one to learn and aspire for the values mentioned therein.

Regards
 

renuka

Well-known member
Has anyone thought that threads like this display some form of fear and self obsession?
Doesn't life just go on for everyone daily?

Does anyone actually get up in the morning to get anxious about their culture?
Its sounds a bit strange but if one visits Islamic sites run by Indians...you can see the same fear..the same anxiety that Islamic culture needs to be preserved etc..the same fear as I see in TB forum.

The fact is we can only be certain of death and nothing else in this world..holding on too much to anything in an obsessive mode is an ADDICTION.

Elsewhere in another thread there is a valid topic of addiction to internet games and Brahmanyan Ji has quoted the Geeta to beautifully link the risks of addictions.

Keeping that in mind those Geeta verses would also hold good for anyone obsessed with culture.
One does not have to give up culture and tradition but why the obsession?
Again the Bhagavad Geeta can come to the rescue here :

कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन ।
मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भुर्मा ते संगोऽस्त्वकर्मणि ॥



You are entitled to action but not to the fruits of it,
let not the fruits by thy motive and not to be attached to inaction.


This is the best shloka for anything we do.

Just replace the word action with culture.

"You are entitled to culture but not to the fruits of it,
let not the fruits be thy motive and not be attached to non-culture"


In my opinion..a person who preforms his duty without obsession lives, but one who is obsessed dies daily.
 

zebra16

Well-known member
Has anyone thought that threads like this display some form of fear and self obsession?
Doesn't life just go on for everyone daily?
Why would trying to know about our own culture and trying to pass it on to the next generation (if they deem it to be worth cultivating) be a display of some form of fear and self obsession?

I remember spending quite a bit of my formative years in learning multiplication tables. That skill became obsolete with the advent of calculators and later computers. No one had any idea that calculators will be invented and reduce the stress on memory. My parents (so also like millions or billions of others) thought it was a worthwhile thing to imbibe on young minds. That cant be construed as obsession.

The fact is we can only be certain of death and nothing else in this world..holding on too much to anything in an obsessive mode is an ADDICTION.
Certainty of death has not stopped people from pursuing their lives till death.



Keeping that in mind those Geeta verses would also hold good for anyone obsessed with culture.
One does not have to give up culture and tradition but why the obsession?
Again the Bhagavad Geeta can come to the rescue here :

कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन ।
मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भुर्मा ते संगोऽस्त्वकर्मणि ॥



You are entitled to action but not to the fruits of it,
let not the fruits by thy motive and not to be attached to inaction.
So why deprive "adhikaram" of anyone who wants to pursue cultural continuity? After all, Lord Krishna will give him the "phalam" as Lord Krishna deigns fit.


In my opinion..a person who preforms his duty without obsession lives, but one who is obsessed dies daily.
Everyone who is born dies a bit each day irrespective of if he obsesses or not.

What has not come out in this thread about culture is about people's longing to connect to his/her (and logically extending to his progeny's) own roots. Otherwise there would not be a logical reason for you having a cosy life in M'sia to be interacting with members in TB forum.

The word "addiction" can also be extended to parents teaching mother-tongue to their children if they (the parents) normally reside outside the area where their mother tongue is used.

I have seen/heard fourth generation TB emigrants to the USA chanting "Gange cha Yamune chaiva Godavari Saraswati, Narmade Sindhu Kaveri, jalEsmin Sannidhim kuru" although they havent seen rivers other than Potomac or Mississippi and Saraswati has dried up more than 2000 years back.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Why would trying to know about our own culture and trying to pass it on to the next generation (if they deem it to be worth cultivating) be a display of some form of fear and self obsession?

I remember spending quite a bit of my formative years in learning multiplication tables. That skill became obsolete with the advent of calculators and later computers. No one had any idea that calculators will be invented and reduce the stress on memory. My parents (so also like millions or billions of others) thought it was a worthwhile thing to imbibe on young minds. That cant be construed as obsession.



Certainty of death has not stopped people from pursuing their lives till death.





So why deprive "adhikaram" of anyone who wants to pursue cultural continuity? After all, Lord Krishna will give him the "phalam" as Lord Krishna deigns fit.




Everyone who is born dies a bit each day irrespective of if he obsesses or not.

What has not come out in this thread about culture is about people's longing to connect to his/her (and logically extending to his progeny's) own roots. Otherwise there would not be a logical reason for you having a cosy life in M'sia to be interacting with members in TB forum.

The word "addiction" can also be extended to parents teaching mother-tongue to their children if they (the parents) normally reside outside the area where their mother tongue is used.

I have seen/heard fourth generation TB emigrants to the USA chanting "Gange cha Yamune chaiva Godavari Saraswati, Narmade Sindhu Kaveri, jalEsmin Sannidhim kuru" although they havent seen rivers other than Potomac or Mississippi and Saraswati has dried up more than 2000 years back.
I agree with the post.
We carry a lot of baggage, some with understanding and others out of fear and call it culture.
It is different for each individual, there is nothing that you may call as TB culture.
We must try to inculcate intelligence, curiosity, good common sense, social skills, and love of all things good and beautiful.
We must not burden the next generation with useless and outdated practice, that has lost its value.
If the next generation wants intercaste marriage, intercountry marriage, or drink alcohol (sensibly), so be it.
 

renuka

Well-known member
What has not come out in this thread about culture is about people's longing to connect to his/her (and logically extending to his progeny's) own roots. Otherwise there would not be a logical reason for you having a cosy life in M'sia to be interacting with members in TB forum.
Dear Zebraji,

I interact with many other sites too (other religions/languages)..not just TB forum.
That's why I made the comparison with the Indian Islamic sites where they too feel the constant insecurity to preserve Islamic culture and get the feeling they are being persecuted.

Anxiety has made shades of expression.
I can understand if a Muslim feels that way cos they strongly identify with the body as they believe that they would get back their body on day of Judgment..but for a Hindu the underlying belief system of Moksha and Kah Aham(Who am I)..I am NOT the body..I am not the mind..I am not the senses etc..yet the feeling of "I am CULTURE" is holding on so strong.

I am not saying culture adherence is wrong but just the obsession seems a bit bordering anxiety.

And to be honest..even though I interact with TB forum and many other sites of different religions too..I dont feel affinity with any one site..there is no such thing of me wanting to get back to any roots...My body is the Tree..the roots are right here....when the body dies..the tree dies.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Each generation tries to pass on some of their own understandings and knowledge to the next generation.
Our parents tied to inculcate some of their wisdom, values, superstitions, fears to us. We accepted some but added some more depending on our circumstances. So we retained some but adapted some others, and sometimes added our own.

We try the same thing with the next generation.
Like Zebraji says some have become useless and should be modified.
Some values and practice get lost because we do not know how to explain it, or the geographic location makes it difficult.

We have indoor bathrooms (even in the temple) in the USA. We had a very difficult time getting the congregation to accept it.

Some kids in the USA had their shoulder branded with Vaishnava symbols, and the kids had to endure bullying. Probably it would have been better to get a tattoo instead.

A young girl was made to sit in the cold garage (due to periods), till the child protection agency showed up.

My friend an Iyyangar who grew up in front of Meenakshi Temple was never allowed to visit the temple,
now she laughs it off, and participates in all aspects of Shiva Temple.
 
Obsession is a judgement call. It is very normal to have a discussion of TB culture at least in this forum. What is the need for people to constantly rush to judge anyone, i do not know. Same thing happened when someone wrote a poem. Sometimes knowledge and adulation may get to one's head and there is a BG verse surely to guard against this temptation too...

I understand my post is a judgement as well.
 

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