Visit to Sabarimala

[venkat2206]

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My father's(late) cousin brother has passed away in the month of August. I am visiting Sabarimala for the last two years. Due to the above death in our family, people have advised me that I should not undertake Sabariamala trip for one year. Alternately a suggestion came that I can visit Raja Annamalaipuram Ayyappa temple because it is not situated in a hill. Request the comments from learned members of our community on this subject.=-=

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

In such events, I am told that one can visit the local temple just for Darshan
(without Irumudi and not climbing through eighteen steps if a provision is there)
according to my Ayyappa friends. Generally visiting the Sabarimala Temple
for an year is not permitted as he is otherwise the brother of your father,i.e. Chithappa.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[kunjuppu]

here is an issue, not discussed often. but more likely raise its head more often in the future.

sabarimala-is-god-antiwomen

 

[sangom]

My father's(late) cousin brother has passed away in the month of August. I am visiting Sabarimala for the last two years. Due to the above death in our family, people have advised me that I should not undertake Sabariamala trip for one year. Alternately a suggestion came that I can visit Raja Annamalaipuram Ayyappa temple because it is not situated in a hill. Request the comments from learned members of our community on this subject.=-=

Pl. see this post. My suggestion will be that you can have 'vratam' for fortyone days and complete it in your house itself, instead of going to any temple.

 

[sangom]

here is an issue, not discussed often. but more likely raise its head more often in the future.

sabarimala-is-god-antiwomen

K,

Nowa years the sabarimala season seems to have become a licence for the ayyappas to do whatever pleases them wherever they be, during the season. Apart from the nuisance to train travellers, these ayyappas spill over into most wayside temples, stop their SUVs or volvo buses, take bath, cook, and do some poojs of their "double head-knot" (irumuDikkeTTu) with very loud "SaraNam ayyappa" shouting. After they leave the place there will be lot of garbage and dirt to be cleaned. In short ayyappas are becoming more of a social nuisance.

If women are also permitted to become lady ayyappas (ayyappis - is this allowed per Tamil grammar?) the scene will get worse confounded. There will definitely be more molestation charges and what not. Perhaps the arrack shops just on this side of the river may have to shut down.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Only elderly women who have no mensurable periods and young girls yet to attain age
are generally permitted according to my Guruji who has gone around 40 times. My
Guruji goes not only visits Sabarimala annually but also visits during certain months
whenever the temple is open. He guides a number of Ayyappas and he has a good
number of family members who are his disciples. I had an opportunity to visit only
once in the month of July two years back under his guidance. I had an opportunity
even to do Angapradakshinam in the Temple and was given a chance to sit in front
of the main Garpagraha for nearly an hour and watched all the abhishekams etc.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[venkat2206]

Views expressed by Sri Sangom - may be his personal views - but definitely hurt the sentiments of thousand of people who are viewing this site. May be a little bit of caution is certainly necessary while posting some comments like this in a semi-public sites.

The underlying reasons for observing Vritham is keep a person pure for those days - in a hectic life which all of us are leaving - these things certainly help a person to bring a control to their life.

In other words, not doing certain things like not eating Non-Veg, alcohol, observing Brahmachariam help to purify a body. If Sri Sangom asks a counter question as to why at all people should such things in other peiods - sorry - there is no answer to this.

When certain queries are raised in the forum it is with the sincere expectation of getting some solution to the issue - not unwarranted comments like the one referred in above.

Venkat

 

[sangom]

Views expressed by Sri Sangom - may be his personal views - but definitely hurt the sentiments of thousand of people who are viewing this site. May be a little bit of caution is certainly necessary while posting some comments like this in a semi-public sites.

Shri venkat,

I do not understand why my comments in post#5 should hurt people who are viewing this site. First of all, I have not written anything against Sabarimala, Ayyappa, the vratam or even making the pilgrimage. All that I have written is that the ayyappas (people in black/blue dress with the familiar "irumuDikkeTTu" on their head, behave with minimum civic sense when on their onward journeys to the temple and more so on their return journeys. I am convinced of its truth and you can ask any common man here in Kerala. And this includes Kerala ayyappas as well, fyi.

The underlying reasons for observing Vritham is keep a person pure for those days - in a hectic life which all of us are leaving - these things certainly help a person to bring a control to their life.

In other words, not doing certain things like not eating Non-Veg, alcohol, observing Brahmachariam help to purify a body. If Sri Sangom asks a counter question as to why at all people should such things in other peiods - sorry - there is no answer to this.

As I said above, I have not written anything against the "vratam" and so I don't think any comment is necessary on that. But if your statement "why at all people should such things in other peiods - sorry - there is no answer to this", is meant to justify the toddy/arrack shop just on this side of the Pamba river, I am sorry, the "vratam" is supposed to be broken or completed only on return to one's place and removing the maalai.Hence the behaviour found among increasing number of the ayyappas to consider the whole thing as over once they get darshan at the temple and return to the vehicle stand at Pamba, is not correct I will say. (Actually, the local press was critical of the toddy/arrack shop and wrote against those some years ago; someone who went last year told me that it has been shifted some distance away but continues, nevertheless.

When certain queries are raised in the forum it is with the sincere expectation of getting some solution to the issue - not unwarranted comments like the one referred in above.

Venkat

I suppose I had given clear answer to your doubt, viz., to avoid going to any temple vide post#4 above. If you are saying that this is what is going to hurt the sentiments, I am sorry, I will refrain from responding to your posts in future. If your opinion is regarding post#5, that was in reply to Kunjuppu, an entirely different matter. I don't know why it should hurt anyone?

 

[kunjuppu]

sangom,

it would be ayyamma? rather than ayyappi? - ie name for potential female ayyan?

 

[kunjuppu]

dear sangom, venkat2206,

pray be assured sangom, that you did not hurt my feelings. i cannot speak for thousands, but i doubt we have readership among thousands. even 100s may be stretching it, though praveen could probably shed some light. how many of these would be hurt by sangom's sentiments. i doubt many. that is my take

your post on ayyappas/ayyammas got me into stitches. during my visit in jan 2011 to india, i went to thirupathi. i was amazed at the number of ayyappans there.. all telugu ayyappans, returning to their homes in andhra, and doing a slight diversion to get Perumal's grace.

i guess, it is inevitable, in any large gathering, with the lack of essential public facilities (washrooms, water) and absence of public courtesy among us, there is an inevitable nuisance resultant. oh well!! that is india.

venkat, not to worry. have you been to kasi. it is the dirtiest and corruptest religionwise place that i know. gaya does not come too far behind. go there sometime. if you peruse through the archives, you may read my experiences. i believe, these are the norms, and not the exceptions.

many a times, i eschew pilgrimage, preferring to my nearybyhometemple of kapali kovil in mylapore saves me hassle, gives me the same experience and above all, easy to access.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Ayyanarappan (Malayamarungar) at Perungalur is our family deity (kula deivam).
Worship of Sri Ayyappan is purely a Dravidian cult from South. Ayyanar Temples are found in almost all villages in Southern Districts of Tamil Nadu and all over Kerala.
There may be many unanswered questions on the Ayyappa Cult. But for a devotee of the Lord they are irrelevent. It is the faith in Sri Ayyappa overwhelmes all other queries.
Those who want to know more about Ayyappa Cult can find information in the following URL:
Ayyappa Cult

Rewgards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[sangom]

dear sangom, venkat2206,

pray be assured sangom, that you did not hurt my feelings. i cannot speak for thousands, but i doubt we have readership among thousands. even 100s may be stretching it, though praveen could probably shed some light. how many of these would be hurt by sangom's sentiments. i doubt many. that is my take

your post on ayyappas/ayyammas got me into stitches. during my visit in jan 2011 to india, i went to thirupathi. i was amazed at the number of ayyappans there.. all telugu ayyappans, returning to their homes in andhra, and doing a slight diversion to get Perumal's grace.

i guess, it is inevitable, in any large gathering, with the lack of essential public facilities (washrooms, water) and absence of public courtesy among us, there is an inevitable nuisance resultant. oh well!! that is india.

venkat, not to worry. have you been to kasi. it is the dirtiest and corruptest religionwise place that i know. gaya does not come too far behind. go there sometime. if you peruse through the archives, you may read my experiences. i believe, these are the norms, and not the exceptions.

many a times, i eschew pilgrimage, preferring to my nearybyhometemple of kapali kovil in mylapore saves me hassle, gives me the same experience and above all, easy to access.

Dear Kunjuppu,

Just a few hours ago, my family friend's son an M.Tech student, came to my home with Sabarimala Prasadam; he along with his two chithappas and a few others had gone for darsan the day before yesterday (the start of the mandalam period) it seems. When talking to him and in the light of Shri Venkat's comments, I specifically enquired about the arrack/toddy shop; he replied that it is no longer there just on this bank of the Pamba but the crowds are now seen in a permanent (not seasonal for Sabarimala alone) toddy/arrack shop near Kanjirappally, a few kms away on this side. He added that throughout this Sabarimala season one will find scorpios, vans and sometimes even buses crowding around that shop. He was working in an engg. college till last year when he joined for M.Tech in a TN college.

He also said about the unruly behaviours of some ayyappa groups. Hence it is not my prejudice alone. Simply because a lot of people believe in sabarimala, it does not mean that members of the public have no voice in writing about some of the ayyappan groups being of a different class.

Shri Brahmanyan has written about aiyanaarappan being the modern ayyappan. I do not think so. The common factor between the two may be that both are now linked to Siva under mainstream hinduism - aiyanaar being an aspect of siva while ayyappan is the progeny.

There are mainly two beliefs - in the scholarly areas - about ayyappa.

1. It was a jain shrine once upon a time and when the jains forsook it, the tribals started worshipping it as best as they knew, from whom the Namboodiris took over because they found that the tribals as a whole could be controlled through this temple easily and forest produce secured very cheap. The tribals called their deity "iyyaappu" whatever that may mean and even today we may find some uneducated rural sc person referring to the god clearly as iyyappan. In any case most local (Kerala) lower caste ayyappas call "swaamiye.... iyyaappo...."
2. Some very sturdy man who was a sort of a leader of the hill tribes singlehandedly killed a huge bison which was posing a constant danger to the tribals. This man called iyyappan became a cult hero and was deified as ayyappa and a shrine was built for him after his demise. This temple got transformed as a full-fledged hindu temple under namboodiri priests in course of time.

 

[venkat2206]

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

Thanks for sharing your views. Yes - I have visited Kasi, Allahabad and also Gaya. Once again, rather than looking at the places , cleaniness, availability of basic amenities etc - I was more looking at the purpose of our visit to Kasi / Gaya and fulfilment of Karma related activities.

My experience about Kasi viist - I have shared with the members of association in this site on earlier occasion. Just to repreat some words - in Kasi we were taken care of very well by Swamimalai Krishnamoorthy Ganapadigal's son Shri Venkat Raman. On all the four days (we were a group of 14) , they have taken sufficient take care of us including organizing visit to Allahabad and Gaya. IN some temples at Kasi, we come across people who were very keen to take money for everything - but this is a normal practive I have seen in various other places like Palani, Tirupati (especially at Thiruchanoor), Pandarpur, Nasik .... list is endless. Some of the places, knowing fully we were taken for ride, we preferred to give money.

Just to come to present point, on various occasions really I liked the views given by Shri Sangom and hence when something hurt - then I thought I should share the same with all. I request Mr Sangom to continue to express his views for any threds started / replied by me. No ill feeling at all. Hope Mr Sangom will understand this.

Venkat

 

[sangom]

Shri venkat2206,

Thank you for your encouraging words. I normally express my views only about things which affect the people, and not about individual members participating here.

This (ayyappas adopting boisterous tendencies) is now very evident even in the highways, though there are several benefits from this mass influx of pilgrims into this temple and into Kerala state. If only some of the devotees show a bit more restraint it will be a very magnificent season.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

"Aiyanar" is a powerful village God in Tamil Nadu riding a white horse or an elephant.
In fact we can see gigantic colourful statues of Aiyanar in the Village outskirts. A
number of festivals are celebrated during Spring Season by the Village people. I am
told a 17th century bronze statue of Aiyanar is available in the Madras Museum. Even
for Aiyanar village people observe lot of formalities like Vrata etc during the festival
days.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear venkat !
what you said is correct in respect of telling it in a forum.but in reality all are feeling the same about the conduct of ayyappa baktharkal in onward &return journey in way side temple and tourist places .it is not applicable to ayyappa devoties alone .the same ( leave the place there will be lot of garbage and dirt to be cleaned)during car festival of various temples.local people are denied the opportunity to worship in a peaceful manner

 

[kunjuppu]

dear venkat,

re your post #13.

i do not wish to name the ganapadigal who 'took care of us'. to briefly recount, total amount i gave in 2000 was 50,000 cash.

not one rupee went for dhaanam.

all those who received the dhaanams, got it in forms, like vessels or saris or veshtis.

all these were wrapped in fading or old or damaged covers. while the ganapadiagal, handed me the dhaanams, which i handed over to the 'deserving', who in turn handed these back to the ganapadigal's wife, who took them all back, and locked them in the bureau.

he was building a huge house. i could not get decent lodging due to some politician's visit. i did not want to stay in sankara madam. this ganapadigal lived next to the madam, and my sis/i took over one new room with attached bathroom - saved our sanity re cleanliness.

his only son, a handsome kudumi lad, we caught during one of our sightseeing to varanasi, in a corner shop, smoking cigarettes. i find no fault in it, but felt that the poor kid was forced into vaideeham by his millionaire dad, and he had no interest in it. he was a good looking well built young man.

this ganapadigal was some sort of community leader. i guess. during my visit, an old tambram woman & deaf/mute daughter in her 30s, had travelled all the way from tamil nadu, to drown themselves in ganga river. out of despair, because the daughter was abused and left in the street by her husband, and the mother had no other recourse.

unfortunately or fortunately, ganga would not take them. they were saved by local folks, who brought them to the madrasi priest. sure enough, he took them under his wing. since some dayadhi died, the gana's wife stopped cooking thevasa saappadu for us. handed this over to the widow/daughter. the first day, we lost count of the hairs in the food. next day, there was none, for the gana had the widow shaved her head!!

the only honest priest, he took us into ganga where we cooked rice three times (wonder even now the hazard of open flame cooking in a boad with none of us knowing how to swim), forming pindams and dumping into ganga. we offered him a few thousand rupees for his service, but he would not take it. he said the gana paid him weekly, and he felt that to take money from us was a sin. my sister and i, exposed to so much corruption, and seeing this gem of honesty, openly cried.

at the foot of the ghat, we used to throw every day - vadai, neyappam and what not. urchins used to wait for it and dive deep to get the food. so did cheri dogs. it was a horror to see the dog and children fight over dumped food.

at the end of it all, i was so grateful to my sardar friend living elsewhere in varanasi, to pick me & my sis up, and give us a few hours of quiet sanity, before we boarded a flight to chennai via delhi.

i was also very relieived, that my canada brought up son, who was very interested in accompanying me, and whom i had refused to take along, for fear of such things happening. it would have destroyed his faith in hinduism.

it was then, that i decided, that my own gently saintly jaded kapali temple is to me closer to heaven than all the kasis and thirupathis in the world.

we need to go a long way to cleanse our piligrim centres off human greed and waste.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

What narrated above is true. But then we do our duty to satisfy our rites but
then the fruits of that, will be borne by the Sastrigals who do that.
No doubt Varanasi is an important pilgrimage Centre. Generally in pilgrimage
centres this type of activity takes place. Oct to March is very good period
in Benaras and the weather will be very pleasant there. Kasi Vishwanath
Temple is a very famous one in the World and is a very famous Jyothirlinga.
We can do abhishekam ourselves and will have mental satisfaction.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[kameshratnam]

The first time i went to sabarimalai i struggled very had to climb the hill ( i was 17 years old)and at last i did and the next when i visited after 7 or 8 years i fell down in the path from pamba to Sannidanam just near a down hill and charanam ayyappa some devotees rescued me - I got cramps and i know why this had happened to me.

அம்மையும் அப்பனும் தந்ததா இல்லை ஆதியின் வல்வினை சூழ்ந்ததா
இம்மையை நான் அறியாததா சிறு பொம்மையின் நிலையினில் உண்மையை உணர்ந்திட

To me Swami Ayyappan is a pratyaksha deivam from my experience. Swami charanam ayyappa

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear kunjuppu !
what you written is known to everybody who visited varanasi. in your presence all dhanams made to individual for your satisfaction and all be returned to ganapadigal by the his assistant in return for some token amount. those brahmins who receive the dhanam will be in the regular list chief ganapadigal only if he is accepting the money offered without any complaints .he will not get the opportunity to get dhanams once he started speaking the backdoor activities.it is true not only for kasi or gaya but also in our cities.
guruvayurappan (narayanan)

 

[kameshratnam]

Vadhyars know how to take money from us and during those times we are emotionally black mailed. They would say ATMA ku shanti kidaikanum - These words will HAUNT u for years if you dont do it

 

[guruvayurappan]

that is weakness of all persons who want to performa karma and we are exploited .vedam solara brahmannakku tripthiya kudunkal enparkal.they will tell that you are all getting monthly salary and we depend upon your dakshina only which is not regular .how many marriage and death ceremony you performing in your family? is the question asked
cheers

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear appan,

I had no problem the ganapadigal charging me moenys. It was what he felt his services were worth. At the time I was there, there were 2 other families, all with similar status. So that was 1 ½ lakhs per the 5 or 6 days. I do not know if my fees would have been higher if he knew upfront that I was an NRI, as this arrangement was booked by my uncle. I verified that resident Indians were being charged the same 50,000 rupees.

And he was booked right through from what I gather.

What appalled me was this man’s greed. The side kick vathyar who took me on the ganges trip, was paid 700 rupees a month in 2000. he was single and most days there were functions at the ganapadi home which need Brahmin feeding. He had about total 6 juniors whom he thus exploited.

He did not share any portion of my fees with them, and that was aggrieving to me,

What surprised me, is that there are only a handful of ganapadigal in the ghat area, and it appears a nice oligopoly arrangements. This is indeed a very lucrative profession as practised in kasi, with a targeted audience of south Indians only.

 

[sangom]

Dear appan,

I had no problem the ganapadigal charging me moenys. It was what he felt his services were worth. At the time I was there, there were 2 other families, all with similar status. So that was 1 ½ lakhs per the 5 or 6 days. I do not know if my fees would have been higher if he knew upfront that I was an NRI, as this arrangement was booked by my uncle. I verified that resident Indians were being charged the same 50,000 rupees.

And he was booked right through from what I gather.

What appalled me was this man’s greed. The side kick vathyar who took me on the ganges trip, was paid 700 rupees a month in 2000. he was single and most days there were functions at the ganapadi home which need Brahmin feeding. He had about total 6 juniors whom he thus exploited.

He did not share any portion of my fees with them, and that was aggrieving to me,

What surprised me, is that there are only a handful of ganapadigal in the ghat area, and it appears a nice oligopoly arrangements. This is indeed a very lucrative profession as practised in kasi, with a targeted audience of south Indians only.

In varanasi the tabra vadhyars have to buy piece with the pandas who manage the ghats and they have a scheduled caste king (supposed to be a descendant of Harischandra). All these powers have to be given their "hafta" and, naturally, religion with god at its centre nurtures crime, criminal tendencies and similar things.

During the 1960's there was a very powerful tabra vadhyar who had all the other power centres at bay. He was popularly referred to as "goonda $%^& vadhyar" in those days!

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear kunjuppu !
what you have said in post 23 "my fees would have been higher if he knew upfront that I was an NRI",is correct. when i got my daughter marriage certificate to settle in UK, the register office demanded RS.1000 for government fee Rs.10
cheers
narayanan