Vedic learning restricted to brahmins only - true or false?

[mahakavi]

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>>Are we really talking about registered Nurses? Are nurses supposed to know the purpose of prescription? Nurses generally are supposed to follow the medicine and dosage prescribed by the doctor with MD or MBBS(a real one not the compounder officiating as one).<<
Yes, they are supposed to know the purpose of prescription in general. They study those in the nursing school. They are supposed to follow the instructions of the doctor and attend to the patient's needs. Most nurses know the ins and outs of prescription medication and progression of the disease and treatment. Some of them know more than the doctors who attend to the patients.

 

[sudeshwer]

I didnt view this episode of Sri Sri Ravi Shanker; well explained to his audiance. but I saw the actual programme(the debate between Sri Sri Ravi Shanker and Zakir Naik) on TV sometime 1998-99 when I was Cyprus. Naik is a fundamentelist. yes he has studied some portions of vedas, bhagwat Gita etc that suited him. The crowd was of mostly muslim; I was scared about Sri Sri Ravi Shanker because the group was very furious for every reply Ravi Shanker gave. It is better, Ravi Shanker didnt accept future invitations for such debate.

 

[sarang]

'Denial' is a wrong choice word. The scenario is more like - 'you are guilty, william says so, macaulay says so, all western/ communist/ indologists say so; accept your guilt, grovel and apologise'. This mindset foisted on gullible educated lot by the west has been lapped by many. Perhaps a re-look on all these issues through the eyes and writings of indian intellectuals may give a different but truer perspective of the issues. If sankaracharya, ramanujacharya, madwacharya and all other revered acharyas supported varnasrama dharma, study of vedas associated with rights and privileges, could travel, preach their diverse siddhantams and gain adherents from all sections of society all over bharat, then there is something missing in our understanding of their way of life and social intercourse. Sooner we come out of this west generated destructive maya, and try to read the scriptures in original and from indian point point of view, the better for our culture and civilization to survive. We must read more of dharampal and arunshourie to understand our ethos.

The article of Dilip K Chakrabarti, Distinguished Fellow, Vivekananda International Foundation, and Emeritus Professor of South Asian Archaeology, Cambridge University may be of interest as a starting point to get a glimpse of corruption of indian history and values.

Bharatkalyan97: Romila Thapar and the Study of Ancient India -- Dilip K Chakrabarti

Mr. Sarangji,
Again I am not against the premise that Veda is knowledge and it is open for all to learn.
I am not blaming Brahmins for the state we are in. I am happy that the "so Called Rationalist" are not here blaming Brahmins for all of society's ills, at the same time I am not going to be defensive about every thing that is done in the name of Hinduism.

Denial is the first stage in the loss process.
STAGES OF THE LOSS PROCESS
By Jake Lawson


What are the stages of the loss process?
Stage 1: Denial
Stage 2: Bargaining
Stage 3: Anger
Stage 4: Despair
Stage 5: Acceptance


What are the stages of the loss process?


A loss experience involves the following five stages of emotional response: denial, bargaining, anger, despair and acceptance.




Read more: Stages Of The Loss Process | LIVESTRONG.COM

 

[prasad1]

>>Are we really talking about registered Nurses? Are nurses supposed to know the purpose of prescription? Nurses generally are supposed to follow the medicine and dosage prescribed by the doctor with MD or MBBS(a real one not the compounder officiating as one).<<
Yes, they are supposed to know the purpose of prescription in general. They study those in the nursing school. They are supposed to follow the instructions of the doctor and attend to the patient's needs. Most nurses know the ins and outs of prescription medication and progression of the disease and treatment. Some of them know more than the doctors who attend to the patients.

Mr. Mahakavi,
I did not say that they may not know more than what they have to know.
My contention was that Nurses need not know the medicine or the dosage as they are only following doctors order. A nurse can not prescribe the medicine.
An janitor in the hospital may know more than the doctor, but that is an exception.

 

[renuka]

Mr. Mahakavi,
I did not say that they may not know more than what they have to know.
My contention was that Nurses need not know the medicine or the dosage as they are only following doctors order. A nurse can not prescribe the medicine.
An janitor in the hospital may know more than the doctor, but that is an exception.

When I was in the hospital I always noted that Paramedics tend to be over confident.(scenario out here where I live)
The reason is becos they are not liable for anything.
They are not sued for negligence out here.

BTW Nurses also are trained about medication and are quite familiar with doses too.
Sometimes if they feel there is something not right with the doctor's prescription they do ask the doctor again before they administer the medication.
That is team work.

In rural set ups in real remote areas..nurses and paramedics are allowed to prescribe simple medications.
Out here in district hospitals simple cases are handled by Medical Assistants and they even administer injections and medications purely based on their own judgement and not by doctor's orders.

 

[sarang]

Let us give the same degree of support to the purohits as we do for the nurses here.

Most of the nurses are committed, so are majority of the priests.

There was an interesting news from UK last week. An indian born nurse used to throw tablets from a distance into the mouth of patients fearing infection; she was facing an enquiry; will she be suspended for a period or dismissed?

 

[mahakavi]

There was an interesting news from UK last week. An indian born nurse used to throw tablets from a distance into the mouth of patients fearing infection; she was facing an enquiry; will she be suspended for a period or dismissed?

Not only she needs to be suspended pending investigation but should be fired if she really threw the tablets like that. Sure she could protect herself. But there are other means (such as putting the tablet in a little cup and put it in the mouth of the patient carefully) than what she adopted. She is committed to service to patients and if she was afraid of getting an infection she does not belong in that profession.

 

[bravishi]

I am no scholar or authority on Vedas. But I feel that the Vedas were there for the welfare of all and hence any person with the right inclination could study them. In fact, a reading of the Rig Veda shows that many of the Rishis for the related Chhandas were exalted souls who achieved that level on the merits of their thoughts and righteousness. The rigidity in the "division of labour" came, I believe, in the medieval period with the relentless attacks by invaders. Why, even now we symbolically acknowledge that anybody could reach the exalted stage with over-abundance of piety and purity of mind ... when ever Agni is required to start the holy fire for yagnas usually the lady of the house is requested to brig the same. It is represetative of Arundhathi (who was of "lower" caste), the pious wife of sage Vasishtha who gave fire to the rishis of yore by rubbing her palms when the fire was lost. Wonder, when Sanatana Dharma did not differentiate why Hindus are still unable to integrate?

 

[Dr.S.Ramanathan]

Very well said, Mr.bravishi.We can go on quoting ad nauseum, about Veda Vyasa's parentage or Suthar's parentage etc.What is required is an inclination to realise Atman or Brahman,by initially following the path of rituals, by understanding them and performing them strictly as ordained. Agnihotram is considered, for eg, as very beneficial for one who performs it strictly as ordained. Every marriedcouple are supposed to perform this exactly at the time of sunrise and sunset until death. Yet, I understand that there are onlyabout 120 genuine Agnihotries in the country, and most of them are Namboodri brahmins from a particular part of Kerala. When a sacred ritual gets reduced to doing something for "Kadane", as a ritual, in the common mundane meaning of the term, then,it looses all its efficacy, irrespective of which caste one belongs to.
Regards, Ramanathan.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

I find even now some people are at loggerheads and they are at variance
owing to different school of thoughts between Atman (the soul as the core
reality of human individual and Anatman (denial of the existence of any self
or soul substance).

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[Gautam2012]

Let us approach this from 2 angles. One is linguistic. Long before Panini, the language the Vedas were composed in was the spoken language of a complex group of peoples. They simply called it BHAASHAA, and the poetic language, such as that reserved for the Vedic lauds was called Chandas. Only a minute difference then prevailed.

We have then records of the DVIJAS, the twice-born, being the brahman, the ksatriyas, and the vaishyas, all receiving upanayana with the sacred thread of varying color and material, white, red, yellow, wool, etc. And, ALL of them received their education from whatever Vedas then existed, and from the Puranetihasa, and Naarashamsi, etc. The Vedas were not static but changing over the ages, and we can see the dialectical changes, and the various rsi families, who worked at preserving various parts of the RkSamhita, and other Samhitas. The Puranetihasa and the Narashamsi, and much Vedic literature is lost, and only a very small fraction of the original volume remains.

During Panini's time, the BHASHA was falling into the hand of second language speakers, much like English is mangled into an Indian creole by those who employ it as a lingua franca in India. He travelled all over India, carefully noting the dialectical variants, and composed his Astadhyayi. We have reason to believe that at this time, the Vedas, or what remained of them, no longer was public property but had become the sole preserve of the priestly class with attendant restrictions on propagation. There was a parallel development in Iran, where literacy was confined solely to the warrior and priest class and jealously guarded from the merchant class & the farmers/artisans. Why these two sister societies underwent the same transformations at similar times is an interesting question.

 

[prasad1]

Not only she needs to be suspended pending investigation but should be fired if she really threw the tablets like that. Sure she could protect herself. But there are other means (such as putting the tablet in a little cup and put it in the mouth of the patient carefully) than what she adopted. She is committed to service to patients and if she was afraid of getting an infection she does not belong in that profession.

I fully endorse your view.
Mr. Sarang, what was your reason for posting about the nurse. You did not give your POV.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

It can be seen that the term "Brahma" in Brahmayajna means Vedas. According to
Paramacharyal, since it may be difficult to all to devote full time to Vedic Learning,
one must at least try to acquire a minimum of scriptural knowledge. All brahmins
ought to learn to chant the Purusasuktham, Sri Suktham and Sri Rudram, etc. The
Vedas are Vidya, that came down to us through the millennia.

Samarpanam to Maha Periyaval.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[sarang]

Nothing specific. There was a reference to nurses in an earlier post; and the news about the pill throwing UK nurse is only days old.

I fully endorse your view.
Mr. Sarang, what was your reason for posting about the nurse. You did not give your POV.

 

[Gautam2012]

Vidya is not received by entitlement or by forcible appropriation. The Vedamata chooses to bestow Her unconditional Grace upon whomever She wishes, regardless of shaukra birth. We have seen in Sri Anirvan [1896-1978] one of the greatest scholars of the Vedas in recent history, born in a non-brahman body. It has been my lifelong effort to bring his august works before the interested public. Soon, we hope to offer through the web almost all the Bengali language works of this great saint. It is our hope and prayer that amidst this august group of Tamil devasharmanas, there might be found those with the interest and expertise to translate these works into Tamil and other languages.

A second example is found in Kerala. I forget the exact name, but the sadhu was born of a Brahman father and a Nair mother and suffered extreme poverty in his youth. However, he received the Grace of the Vedamata, and became a realized soul and a shelter to many in the region. These examples abound.

Without propagating the Vedas to all within the Sanatana fold, we have cut our own throats, diluting the sense of belonging, and increasing the sense of alienation. Brahmans are their own worst enemy, and Tamil Nadu and the Tambrahm diaspora only proves this point, as does Kerala and the Kashmir diaspora. In Punjab, a brahman is considered to be little better than a beggar, fit for no more than mushti-bhiksha from vaishyas and similar families. That is how they exist, with no further consciousness of their destiny or their history.

In Rajasthan, brahmans are like the bond-slaves to vaishya and trader families, and accompany them like abject servants, when these wealthy Marwaris make their fortunes in Calcutta. I have seen these things with my own eyes, and have seen how they are treated, with a type of indulgent pity, affection, semi-respect, semi-contempt, much like cows are treated in the same households. They are pets, animals, and like the family cows, fed also like those animals, and behave much like the family pets. This is not one brahman but scores of families in Calcutta; please go to Upper Chitpur Road and discover this for yourself.

Without revival of Vedic learning, there is no hope of people even connecting with their Sanatana roots. Their thirst will take them to Western sources like Wendy Doniger, Rahul Peter Das, Fritz Staal etc. all of whom are highly inadequate. There are exemplary Indian interpreters in the modern age, where Sri Aurobindo has made a start explaining how the Vedas should be viewed. One does not have to subscribe to Sri Aurobindo's other thought to recognize the value of his contributions to Vedic exegesis. He has other successors, even more able.

We have to create a sense of belonging, a sense of ownership. The varnashrama is not hierarchical but like a chakra or a vyuha, it is a fortress, not a ladder. Each group has something equally precious to contribute to society, and that is the message we have forgotten. Brahmans are there to serve, by humility and self-abnegation; please read Manu carefully regarding the lifestyle of the true brahmana: no Kanchipuram silk, no diamonds can ever figure there!! The Holy Lord ShrimanNarayana bears the footprint of the brahmana on His Holy breast to show by His extraordinary humility and self-abnegation how brahmans themselves should behave in this world! Do we?!!

So brahmans must continually serve, sacrificing self for all other members of society. They are VIPRA, they VIBRATE or TREMBLE with the joy of self-sacrifice, and the rapture of serving God, ONLY, and not any other GOALS. There are 6 duties of the brahman: study, teach, serve God part of which resides among society, all beings, trees environment etc. [i.e. brahmans must lead in engendering social altruism and consciousness], and three subsidiary activities connected to these 3.

We have forgotten these basic principles and behave like masters of the Universe, and hence have lost the respect and regard of all. Our children are getting married to people of other religions in the greatest proportion to any other group, and the most hatemongering of the Dharma in India comes from Brahman journalists, writers and politicians. We need to ask WHY, because there is a Law of CAUSE & EFFECT working behind these events. How can we reverse this trend?

SrimatMahaSwamigal urged all Brahmins to become mildly literate in their Vedic heritage. It is also more important to spread this Vedic heritage to all, and bring in everyone. The great ideal of Bharatmata is the BRAHMASANKALPA, that all beings be liberated, and that the brahmans themselves the the cause of this liberation. They must wait, freeing others, their yajamana, before seeking their own good. That is the core of the Brahmasankalpa, atmano mokshartham jagaddhitaya.

 

[sarang]

This is what rama tells lakshmana, after hanuman introduces himself. Rama is convinced that hanuman has masterd all the vedas and vyakaranas, as his knowledge, diction, pronunciation and delivery are perfect.

If smritis are laws, ithihasas ramayana and mahabharata tell us how to interpret the laws.



नानृग्वेदविनीतस्य नायजुर्वेद्धारिणः।
नासामवेदविदुषश्शक्यमेवं विभाषितुम्।। 4.3.28।।

अनृग्वेदविदुषः for one who is not well versed in rigveda, एवम् in that way, भाषितुम् to talk, न शक्यम् not possible, अयजुर्वेद्धारिणः not a scholar in Yajurveda, न not, असामवेदविदुषः for one who is not a scholar in Samaveda, न not.

One who has not studied Rig,Yajur and Sama vedas can not speak that way.

नूनं व्याकरणं कृत्स्नमनेन बहुधा श्रुतम्।
बहु व्याहरताऽनेन न किञ्चिदपशब्दितम्।। 4.3.29।।

नूनम् surely, अनेन by him, कृत्स्नम् entirely, व्याकरणम् grammar, बहुधा in many ways, श्रुतम् studied, बहु much, व्याहरता spoken, अनेन by him, किञ्चित् even a little, अपशब्दितम् wrong pronounciation of words.

Surely he has studied much grammar well. There is not even a little mistake in his pronounciation of words in the many words spoken by him.

 

[Gautam2012]

Sorry to go a little bit off topic, but the meeting of Lord Mahavir disguised as a brahmana and SriRamachandra is given a delicious twist in the Ramacharitamanasa by Goswami Tulasidasa. Although written in the grAmya-girAh, the folk tongue, Goswamiji is a maser scholar, and hides many double entendres, and delicious Sanskrit puns throughout his work, all of which have a spiritual context.

Here the chaupai begins with SriRama, noticing this brahmana approaching and asking, "Vipra, kaho!" I.e. Vipra, say who you are, for waht purpose have you come?

Now, Vipra kaho, can also be heard and construed as "Viprak ho" i.e. "Ho there Vipraka"!

Vipraka, ashvaka, rUpaka etc. belong to a class of suffixes denoting "false", not real, apparent.

So now, Shri Hanumanji is in a bind! He realizes Lord Rama has recognized him, pretending to call him a Vipra, but also subtly indicating that he is only an "apparent Vipra, and is sort of playing along, gently teasing him with his questions. The whole context related in the above post becomes very light and delightful, when placed against this background. With such devices, Goswami Tulasidasa has created an extraordinary spiritual depth to the Ramacharitamanasa!!

 

[ShivKC]

false

 

[prasad1]

false

Shiv,
Did you forget to compleet your sentence?