Varna, Jaathi and Race

[RVR]

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Indian system is totally different from other countries. We have several languages. Several religions. Several castes. Even several races (if you look at persons from North east and Gujarath, they will not look alike. Same way persons from Kashmiri and Kanyakumari, there will be lot of differences).

All these differences exists for decades and we have learnt to live with these differences. Unity in diversity is India. While we are not attempting to eliminate multiple religions and languages, why should we try to eliminate caste alone. If the caste system continues, let it continue. If the caste system gets eliminated over a period of time, let it get eliminated. Let us leave it to natural forces.

All the best

 

[Nara]

While we are not attempting to eliminate multiple religions and languages, why should we try to eliminate caste alone. If the caste system continues, let it continue. If the caste system gets eliminated over a period of time, let it get eliminated. Let us leave it to natural forces.

Dear Sir, caste system is a man-made evil system. Please do not equate that to language differences. I am all game for eliminating religion as well, but a more immediate need is the elimination of caste, at least from the personal lives of Brahmins, and of course from NB lives as well.

Caste system will go, not due to natural forces, but because the youngsters have already started rejecting it and will continue to do in increasing numbers. As elders it is our duty to encourage this phenomenon and give support to those who choose to reject this evil.

Cheers!

 

[RVR]

Dear Sir, caste system is a man-made evil system. Please do not equate that to language differences. I am all game for eliminating religion as well, but a more immediate need is the elimination of caste, at least from the personal lives of Brahmins, and of course from NB lives as well.

Caste system will go, not due to natural forces, but because the youngsters have already started rejecting it and will continue to do in increasing numbers. As elders it is our duty to encourage this phenomenon and give support to those who choose to reject this evil.

Cheers!

As you rightly said both girls and boys are choosing their own partners and parents have very little say in the matter. They don't select their partners based on religion, caste or language. It is not confined to Brahmin community alone but to all religions & communities.

All these things are happening due to better literacy, particularly women literacy, migrating to cosmopolitan areas etc. There is another thread in our forum with specific question, `why brahmin girls are attracted to NB boys'. Women literacy and empowerment will play an important role in accelerating the process.

All the best.

 

[venkatpasupathy]

Dear Mr.Kunjuppu,
I do not think there is any disconnect between my first and the last sentences. What I meant was that brahmins also took many initiatives in doing away with casteism, though they are in a minority. It is true that as a soceity brahmins are taking the lead to spurn casteism. There are no two opinions on that score. Venkat

 

[Nara]

It is true that as a soceity brahmins are taking the lead to spurn casteism. There are no two opinions on that score. Venkat

Hello and greetings!

I request you to substantiate your claim above that "as a soceity brahmins are taking the lead to spurn casteism."

It is true that there are instances where some youngsters have married NBs, often with the parents opposing it. But this is in no way a wide spread and organized phenomenon approved or encouraged by the Brahmin society.

Some cite centuries old stories, but they don't count because not only the validity of such stories is suspect, but, even if true, they are just isolated instances.

There is no organized opposition to casteism from the Brahmin community as far as I am aware. In fact, among the religious elite, the keepers of of the hoary Hindu tradition, castesim is not only alive and well, but it is thriving.

Cheers!

 

[happyhindu]

I am all game for eliminating religion as well, but a more immediate need is the elimination of caste, at least from the personal lives of Brahmins, and of course from NB lives as well.

sir,

all religions seem to have their pros and cons.

me too find the whole concept of religion, esp as religions differences, humbug..

however, for each person who does not believe in the segregation of religion, there are several others who take their religion seriously.

idealism apart, it is impossible to think that the whole world will think alike in such matters.

i feel it is better to respect others who do take their religion and their way of life seriously, as long as it hurts no other. if they are asked to change, it is but natural for anyone to feel uncomfortable or angry about it.

i do not think it is possible to influence people to eliminate things from their lives. as long as a person is not out to cause damage to the other person, i feel everything is acceptable.

 

[RVR]

Prof. Nara ji,

Present status of Indian Economy looks like this (2008 est.)

GDP - composition by sectors with Population deployed % in brackets
agriculture: 17.6% (60%)

industry: 29% (12%)

services: 53.4% (28%)


Literacy:
definition:*age 15 and over can read and write
total population:*61%
male:*73.4%
female:*47.8% (2001 census)

I earnestly feel from the above facts, problem for India could be as below:

1. Literacy has to improve to 90% at the earliest

2.Special emphasise should be made to improve female literacy.

3.There should be higher level of migration from villages (agriculture) to Cities (Industry and sevice sectors).

If we don't do above at the eariest, there will be more social unrest in the form of Naxalites, Maoists, terrorists etc.

Government should concentrate more on social sector like National Rural Employment Guarnatee Scheme (NRGES), Literacy improvement, Health care, food items at subsidised rates etc.

Religion, Caste, Language etc can take back seat for the moment.

The above is my humble suggestion.

All the best

 

[Nara]

Government should concentrate more on social sector like National Rural Employment Guarnatee Scheme (NRGES), Literacy improvement, Health care, food items at subsidised rates etc.

Religion, Caste, Language etc can take back seat for the moment.

Dear Sir, Greetings,

The reason I talk a lot about Brahmins is because this forum is named for Brahmins. If this forum was "TamilLiteracyFirst" then we can put caste and Brahmins in the back seat.

I agree with you, literacy, health-care, etc. are very important. Governments exist for addressing these issues. But I also think governments must be able to address several pressing issues at the same time.

Cheers!

 

[RVR]

Dear Sir, Greetings,

The reason I talk a lot about Brahmins is because this forum is named for Brahmins. If this forum was "TamilLiteracyFirst" then we can put caste and Brahmins in the back seat.

I agree with you, literacy, health-care, etc. are very important. Governments exist for addressing these issues. But I also think governments must be able to address several pressing issues at the same time.

Cheers!

Thanks Prof Nara ji,

Brahmin community is suppose to impart knowledge on other communities.But unfortunately most of our community members have given up teaching profession. It is high time our community members promote schools at rural areas and offer free/subsidised education right from primary level to poor and downtrodden children belonging to all communities.

If we do the above, it will not only create lot of goodwill but enable the downtrodden people to come up in life.

I am suggesting this because Government has failed to impart education after more than six decades of independence.

All the best

 

[sapthajihva]

Hello Nara,

The negatives of jAthi are well documented. See my posts #64 and #74. Now it is your turn to list the "positives" of the jAthi system. To be precise, please list the positives that can only exist within the jAthi.

What purpose you ask, look at all the societies around the world without jAthi, the same purpose, with all warts and all, will be served by such a society.

Cheers!

I have listed the posts you have mentioned and my comments on them.

...
There is a plethora of written material documenting scores of atrocities committed in the name of jAthi.

In 1997, in Melavalavu village near Madurai six Dalits were hacked to death because one of the six was uppity enough to stand for and win a reserved panchayat president seat. His head was severed and thrown into a well.

Even as recent as a few months ago there was a standoff between Dalits and caste Hindus in a small town near Madurai where a wall was erected some 20 years ago to prevent the Dalits from entering the caste Hindu section of the town requiring the Dalits to take a circuitous route to anything and everything.

In another case in Salem district there was an attempt to build a wall in the village common area with the view to prevent Dalits from entering the temple.

These may be extreme cases, but the daily indignities suffered by these unfortunate people are no small matter and quite heart-wrenching.

I would recommend an interesting series of short stories by a Dalit writer named Bama. Her widely acclaimed and somewhat autobiographical novel called "Karukku" gives a vivid account of the daily shame and humiliation Dalits are made to endure. Here is a small excerpt from a review of this novel.

Constantly reproved for being a member of a lower caste, the Dalit children go through severe abuse and torment. The novel is not just the story of the author alone. It seeks to expose the plight of thousands of Dalit children. The author also finds that several of her own people have internalized the inferiority that is imposed on them by the upper classes. She wants her novel to be a "two-edged sword". While on the one hand it challenges the oppressors who have enslaved and disempowered the Dalits, on the other hand it reiterates the need for a new society with ideals such as justice, equality and love.​

I know that many in this forum will distance themselves from these and put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the TNB. But the sad history of these atrocities places Brahmins squarely in the middle of those who are responsible. Brahmins provide the intellectual justification based in one form or another.

Cheers!

I think you had missed the intent in my earlier postings. Atrocities by caste people against others cannot be blamed on the system of caste itself; rather on the people. Your examples just show that there were some people who discriminated on the basis on caste. That caste is the factor for such discrimination is not a logical derivation. It is the minds of those individuals who failed to uphold the common good.

If we were to assume that caste itself is evil, then there can be no good souls who sincerely follow their caste! It is not so. Your argument is biased, based on only one side of the coin and looking at from the resultant point of view. There are many caste people who respect human dignity. Just so they are undocumented does not prove the contrary. Hence your point on saying that caste is the source of such discrimination is invalid.

It really does not matter. To a Dalit child who is beaten for the crime of drinking water from the same pot as other upper caste children, what difference does it make whether Varna and Jaathi are the same or not, or whether Varna is birth based or not.

I know, many upper caste NBs are pretty bad. But does that then follow that Brahmins need not feel any responsibility for their part. Yes, many rich people look down upon poor irrespective of caste. That does not mean caste based discrimination is any less insidious or does not exist.

...

Many Brahmins look at themselves and their practices and their culture and think it is all benign, what is all the fuss. To them, I say, please talk to a Dalit and ask him/her about varna/jAthi and what they think about it. The answer you get will not be very pleasant.
Cheers!

Your points in #74 only highlight the effects of those who have discriminated. If you see my earlier responses, I had clearly outlined the reason for jaathis to emerge. No reason why we should cordon jaathi as a negative system for the reason that people discriminated on the basis of jaathi.

The solution is not to discriminate on the basis of jaathi.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Positives? Again, please read my earlier post where I had mentioned how jaathis have come to stay. It is a natural phenomenon. What is the use of critical examination by listing out +ves and -ves in the matter of mind and preferences. There is no limiting line.

The supposedly 'dalits' or 'lower castes' should understand that people are the ones who make a difference and not the system. One need not go and lecture about the +ves of jaathi to them; it will happen by itself in the course of time.

 

[sapthajihva]

3.There should be higher level of migration from villages (agriculture) to Cities (Industry and sevice sectors).

Dont think this is a right move. Agriculture is ever important; it is wise to utilise our nation's variety to optimise our agri-business. Rather than moving from villages to cities, all villages should become self-sustained. Concentrating more on industry and service at the cost of agriculture is a mistake.

We should modernise agri to the level which can optimise but yet prove eco-friendly.

Food is THE most precious commodity which can sustain an economy. Working to our strengths is the key - not imitating others.

Iindustry and service have their place...

 

[Nara]

Hello HappyHindu,

Greetings!

I am responding to your query here for obvious reasons

i do not hear of any caste based discrimination and stuff (infact, all around me i seem to be the only person talking about caste).

reg the incidents you have mentioned, [.. ] consider them to be one of those rare,

Cities offer relative anonymity. Often it is hard to determine the caste by the looks. There are very dark skinned Brahmins and quite light skinned NBs. But in villages there is no such anonymity, one's caste determines one's identity. Only extreme stories get reported in the newspapers. If you are interested in understanding the true extent of the problem I would suggest you follow the writings of some Dalit intellectuals. One in particular is the writer Chandra Bhan Prasad. Then there is S. Viswanathan (I don't know whether he himself is a Dalit or not) of Frontline who reports in Dalit issues. One more literary source I would recommend is Meena Kandasamy.

But i do consider these incidents as those of 'power' play, where one section of people want to show they are powerful by dominating or controlling resources. Would not this type of slave-master stuff (or a dominant-group structure construct) have happened irrespective of the caste system? Is it right to blame brahmanism alone?

Whatever the root causes may be, we can debate that until hell freezes over (not that I believe in hell and all that mumbo jumo ), only the vedic religion called Brahminism offers any defense of jAthi system. Therefore, only Brahminism is to be blamed for caste and discrimination perpetrated against people on caste lines. This is why I think caste must be eliminated. Then, paraphrasing Nixon, they won't have Brahmins to kick around any more.

And are such incidents happening all the time in villages? If they are, is it not the moral responsibility of every single person (irrespective of B or NB) to support the poor in whatever ways possible (moral, financial, all forms of support, whatever it takes) ?

Dalits have indeed started asserting themselves. It is not as easy to discriminate like before. But it still keeps happening. The political power structure is still dominated by the caste Hindus. You are absolutely right, it is a moral imperative that every single person must support the poor.

Cheers!

 

[RVR]

Dont think this is a right move. Agriculture is ever important; it is wise to utilise our nation's variety to optimise our agri-business. Rather than moving from villages to cities, all villages should become self-sustained. Concentrating more on industry and service at the cost of agriculture is a mistake.

We should modernise agri to the level which can optimise but yet prove eco-friendly.

Food is THE most precious commodity which can sustain an economy. Working to our strengths is the key - not imitating others.

Iindustry and service have their place...

I am not recommending that agriculture has to be abondoned. I wish it further modernised and excess labour is migrated to cities. 60% of the population in rural areas sharing 17% of national wealth has to be corrected.

All the best

 

[kunjuppu]

Dalits have indeed started asserting themselves. It is not as easy to discriminate like before. But it still keeps happening. The political power structure is still dominated by the caste Hindus. You are absolutely right, it is a moral imperative that every single person must support the poor.

Cheers!

... yes indeed, i have so heard. good for them. high time too!!

i think they have to watch out ere they swing their muscles too strong.. like the recent incidently in madras law college?

regards

 

[sapthajihva]

Hello Nara, my replies in blue:

Originally Posted by Nara
Hello and greetings!

No, you have offered no such thing. Discrimination and oppression on the basis Jaathi is all around us. I cited many instances of these (#64 and #74 of the Varna thread). These cases of oppression were perpetrated purely on the basis of caste. The reason the president-elect in that village near Madurai was murdered was he belonged to the "wrong" caste. The reason the young child was beaten up for drinking from the pot was because she belonged to the "wrong" caste. There are thousands of such instances happening to this very day in villages all around India.

I shall illustrate the fallacy in your claims:

Statement - Some people used sticks to beat people

Inference - Sticks are used only to beat people

.................................................. ..........................................

Statement - Some people used caste to discriminate negatively

Inference - Caste is used only for negative discrimination

.................................................. ..........................................

Do you see how illogical your statements are??

It is not as though caste is a benign social construct that is misused by bad people. Au contraire! Oppression is the raison d'être of caste. Keeping the caste in their hierarchical place is the whole point. The tragic thing about caste is it makes even otherwise good people act badly sometimes.

Caste IS a benign social construct, your contradictions arise because you see caste as the cause for oppression. If this be the case then it should follow that all people who follow caste are oppressors. When we apply this derivation practically, it fails miserably. So, your contention that caste was created to oppress is wrong!

There are enough powerful reasons to eliminate caste system. Since you seem to want to preserve it, the onus is upon you to show at least some positive things that cannot be had without caste identity. You are yet to name one.

There are no reasons to eliminate caste, rather we have to eliminate the attitude of oppression. There is a sea of difference between your intent and mine. All the things that can be without caste can exist with caste. So why eliminate caste?! Moreover, as I have already explained, it identifies people based on their habits and customs which have been passed on for generations. Why should one eliminate caste for apparently illogical reasons?

Your only claim against caste is that it discriminates, which I have shown is not true!

The same argument can be made by other perpetrators as well. Why pick on my chosen vehicle of oppression, why eliminate _________ (fill this blank with your favorite vehicle of discrimination) because it is not as though it is the key to unlocking a perfect world of equality?

There is a subtle difference which you should understand - it is mind which discriminates and not the mode! Assume that if caste were eliminated without correcting the mind, it would switch on to some other straw for oppression! That is why, enlightening the people to respect basic human dignity is the only cure for oppression. And not any other.

I will object even if you propose any other vehicle as the cause of oppression for the simple reason that the whole exercise is perceived wrongly!

Regards,

 

[anandb]

I would tend to agree with what Sri Saptajhiva said. The caste system as originally intended was not meant to discriminate against anyone. It actually gave a sense of pride to say they belonged to a community of cobblers or goldsmiths or so on. It gave a high degree of specialization of labor and the people had great pride in the work they did however menial that job would be. In times it became a much abused system. In due course it may die a natural death but in the times it was followed (am talking about 1000 of years back) it did serve a purpose. I think people's mentality has to change a lot rather than just outwardly abolishing the caste system. It is just like the judiciary or the police is a much abused system with so much of corruption and inefficiency but do we end up abolishing these systems because the people involved are abusing it.

I don't agree with Naraji's observation that casteism is thriving among brahmins. I am seeing the opposite happening, it could be intentional or just pure helplessness but it is happening. Casteism is being practiced more by caste hindus in the rural areas. Instead of constantly trying to malign the caste system, we should strive to recognize the differences among people and still work towards a common goal.

 

[vaisita77]

Gentlemen!

This Forum is, I suppose for the up liftment of Brahmins and particularly for the Tamil Brahmins. I failed to understand the honourable members are seemed to be supporting and encouraging intercaste and inter religion marriages. Let any body marry Jewish / christian / Muslim /Zorashtranian boy or girl and this cannot be and should not be forced on the others in the name of revolution. I was sincerely going through this Forum to noe more about Varnas , Jathi and Race and I am really confused disturbed to see that it has turned out to be political platform for gaining vote banks.

Regards

 

[RVR]

I visited my native village just now. Most of the Brahmins have left the village and very few old people from our community are only staying back. Other castes have fully taken over the administration of the village.

All the temples, not only in my village but in the adjacent villages are performing their poojas daily. In my village both Gurukkal and Battachariar are performing their jobs in siva and perumal temples. Infact both the temples are not getting land revenues regularly.

I salute other communities for continuing the practice followed by our community earlier.

 

[kunjuppu]

Gentlemen!

This Forum is, I suppose for the up liftment of Brahmins and particularly for the Tamil Brahmins. I failed to understand the honourable members are seemed to be supporting and encouraging intercaste and inter religion marriages. Let any body marry Jewish / christian / Muslim /Zorashtranian boy or girl and this cannot be and should not be forced on the others in the name of revolution. I was sincerely going through this Forum to noe more about Varnas , Jathi and Race and I am really confused disturbed to see that it has turned out to be political platform for gaining vote banks.

Regards

vaisita,

perhaps we can clarify to the aims of this forum?

this forum is a, for want of better choice, a playground, whose basic tenets are 'respect for the values of tamil hinduism'.

primarily the players are those who subscribe to tamil brahmin faith, but need not necessarily be so.

modern day tamil brahmins are a diaspora, with a wide range of socio religious values, based on their own conviction, and also a homage to the places where they were brought up or currently live.

what you claim to be a brahmin value, need not necessarily be acknowledged by another, in this forum.

if all of us have identical uniform attitudes, this forum would be indeed a dull match.

variety of views and attitudes are welcome here, AS LONG AS, civility is maintained and there is a sense of mutual regard and respect reflected in the posts.

we also, going beyond, believe in the integrity of india and the multi faith multi cutural india, that is today's reality.

any post or attitude which incites hatred against other communities or shows disrespect for our fellow indian citizens, regardless of political or religious attitudes, is NOT welcome here.

over and above, we hope to provide a moderated, smooth flowing, exchange of views and ideas.

... and also, a place, where rituals related queries and any other query is welcome, for the membership is indeed wide, erudite, good hearted and above all mutually respected.


we tend to maintain a 360 degree orientation to posts, ie we treat posts in their innocence, and hope these flourish to contribute to our knowledge or human base.

hope this explains

vaisita, come here, contribute and be contributed.

thank you.

 

[Nara]

Hello Sapthajihva:

Greetings!

I shall illustrate the fallacy in your claims:
Statement - Some people used sticks to beat people
Inference - Sticks are used only to beat people

You have constructed a strawman in your stick analogy. The caste stick serves no other legitimate purpose but hierarchical separation resulting in downward oppression. I asked you to name some positive things that cannot be had without caste identity. As I pointed out earlier, you are yet to name one.

... lots of non sequitors deleted and not responded to .........

you should understand - it is mind which discriminates and not the mode! Assume that if caste were eliminated without correcting the mind,

Once again, the same argument can be and has been made in defense of all sorts of discrimination. There will be other ways to discriminate is not a good reason to defend caste system. Today, the role caste plays in oppression is well understood and even the upper echelons of Brhaminical orders dare not defend hierarchical caste ordering openly. Today, the zeitgeist on this issue is such that any mind that still lurks in nineteenth century ideas of caste has to keep them buried in the deep crevasses of supremacist feelings. Minds will change if we move the zeitgeist far enough which is what I am trying to do that you seem to oppose.

In any case, I repeat my request once again, please name a few positive things in life that cannot be had unless we continue this caste system. Just answer this one question, please, will you?

Cheers!

 

[silverfox]

Dear Vaisita:
I can understand your anguish about members expressing differing opinions. However, when Praveen and a few of us started this, the upliftment of our community was of paramount importance. Please read our Mission Statement. At the same time, we wanted to be very democratic with freedom for everybody to express their opinions and views. In fact, we have several non-brahmins as members in this Forum and we allow them to express their views, too, as long as it adds value to our community. As far as I can see, I don't believe any tamilbramin member is advocating inter-caste marrage as such. Perhaps they were talking about the atrocities committed based on caste. I also don't believe anybody is forcing someone to marry a christian/muslim/zoroastrian/jew as you say!!

Nevertheless, I want to emphasize that this site was started primarily for the upliftment of Tamil Brahmin community in view of all the harassment and the harsh treatment of Brahmins by the dravidian parties. Based on the rapid increase of membership, I think people begin to see the goodness of this site; it also shows that our community is longing for identity and unity and our site is providing the platform.

Please, by all means, write and condemn anybody who advocates anything that is detrimental to our community.

Gentlemen!

This Forum is, I suppose for the up liftment of Brahmins and particularly for the Tamil Brahmins. I failed to understand the honourable members are seemed to be supporting and encouraging intercaste and inter religion marriages. Let any body marry Jewish / christian / Muslim /Zorashtranian boy or girl and this cannot be and should not be forced on the others in the name of revolution. I was sincerely going through this Forum to noe more about Varnas , Jathi and Race and I am really confused disturbed to see that it has turned out to be political platform for gaining vote banks.

Regards

 

[RVR]

Development agenda

Gentlemen!

This Forum is, I suppose for the up liftment of Brahmins and particularly for the Tamil Brahmins. I failed to understand the honourable members are seemed to be supporting and encouraging intercaste and inter religion marriages. Let any body marry Jewish / christian / Muslim /Zorashtranian boy or girl and this cannot be and should not be forced on the others in the name of revolution. I was sincerely going through this Forum to noe more about Varnas , Jathi and Race and I am really confused disturbed to see that it has turned out to be political platform for gaining vote banks.

Regards

The purpose of this forum must be `development of TB community'. Those who have migrated outside Tamilnadu may have different outlook. My own cousin migrated to USA four decades back. His children are married to different communities. At the same time, I have quite a few other relatives who are still in USA for the past few decades and don't want to give up their roots, customs and practices. It is all individual outlook and let us not spend too much time on that.

It is my humble request to all of you that the residual TB community in Tamilnadu, particularly belonging to poor and downtrodden sections, requires guidance & support from the fellow members of this forum. Local government apathy towards our community is very much prevalent even now. They have no other option but to look to our own community members for guidance and support. Most of the poor people of our community may not know about this forum itself. I feel it is our duty to spread the message through appropriate other forums that they can come here and get some support.

If possible, let us jointly form a trust like KIT. KIT is not restricting their activites only to Kerala . Probably we can align with them instead of duplicating. If not, let us atleast give proper advice and guidance so that let them come up in life. If possible, let us extend our services to other communities also. We are not against any other religion or caste.

Two days back I visited my native village. My visit gave lot of moral support to the few poor TB families still staying there. There only request is I should visit atleast once in a year which I accepted. They are not asking me money. They require moral support.I am also relieved of all my day to day tensions when I spent my time with them.

Let us make our effort more productive and efficient. Customs & practices will change on a continuous basis which none of us can prevent. Let us not discuss too much about it.

All the best

 

[[email protected]]

To RV ji your possitive thinking is Good, KIT is a good examble TB.com think to join in KIT for uplift the needy poor Brahmins is most welcomeing move. s.r.k.

 

[sapthajihva]

Hi Nara,

Hello Sapthajihva:

Greetings!

You have constructed a strawman in your stick analogy. The caste stick serves no other legitimate purpose but hierarchical separation resulting in downward oppression. I asked you to name some positive things that cannot be had without caste identity. As I pointed out earlier, you are yet to name one.

Is it so? Perhaps you can explain why my illustration is weak; will you...

Apart from repeating that caste was formed to discriminate, you have not proved anything. For that matter anybody can claim anything based on selective examples.

... lots of non sequitors deleted and not responded to .........

Yes, if my replies to your original post seem as non-sequitors to you, it may be that your original post itself was a non-sequitor!

Once again, the same argument can be and has been made in defense of all sorts of discrimination.
.
.
.
Minds will change if we move the zeitgeist far enough which is what I am trying to do that you seem to oppose.

In any case, I repeat my request once again, please name a few positive things in life that cannot be had unless we continue this caste system. Just answer this one question, please, will you?

I will not argue on the positives and negatives of caste as that implicitly assumes that we are evaluating caste! Before doing that, it is essential to clearly analyse the 'discriminating factor'. We have to ascertain whether caste is the reason for discrimination, which I have shown it is not.

Unless there is a necessity to change an existing system, it is better let off as it is...

Regards,

 

[Nara]

I will not argue on the positives and negatives of caste as that implicitly assumes that we are evaluating caste!

Hi, I understand, there is none. There is not a single positive thing that cannot be had without the caste system. But there is a lot that is wrong with this system -- why else is this insidious system reviled at the bottom of the caste system, but still draws support at least from some at the top?

If the Brahmin intelligentsia and the religious elite repudiate caste system (which I know will not happen) the Brahmin community is the one that will benefit the most. The Brahmin community need not carry this burden anymore. Free at last, free at last ....

Cheers!