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Unnecessary fear

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ashwin

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Hi I am ashwin an Iyengar from chennai

For a community that has supposedly been targeted since independence we really aren't doing too bad are we? If DMK is really serious let MK fire all his brahmin lawyers and tax accountants and doctors. Let dayanidhi maran divorce his iyengar wife. Let him try to introduce reservations in the privates sector...

I really feel that we are over reacting , the brahmin community constitutes about 3% of the total population in TN and it has its representation. look around you there will definitely be brahmins everywhere, 2 of the 3 toppers in sataeboards are brahmins, most of the successful journalists, industrialists and IT company CEOs in TN are brahmins we already have a big piece of the cake , it really isnt too much of a problem, The IT boom was engineered by the brahmins.

OBC quotas are an abberation , Brahmins are eveolving into a truly resilient and global community , there are scores of brahmin associations abroad doing a good job,poverty among brahmins has declined sharply, I can see the difference. Quotas wont crush us, thay can only make us work harder and do our best. Staying away from politics is good, we are not dependant on some two bit politician for our living, it works in our favour. Even without political backing we are still the single most prosperous community in India. Societies will evolve, dont worry abt reservations in Private sector I konw it wont happen, our numbers are too small to really be affected in any major way.

Shrug the insecurity , it makes us look weak.

Ps can any one provide me with names of all prominent Brahmin industrialists, CEOs .etc it would help
 

mythreyi

Member
hello ashwin ,
I definetly agree with you.Brahmins are setting high records or not is the issue but how the situation makes us fight harder is what to be learnt here.you will always gain at the top is aer really wise and fought the brahmin way
hats off!
 
D

dhrub.b

Guest
hi ashwin,
it is very good to be a optimistic BUT we should not play ostrich.reservation in private sector will be introduced near general election.meera kumar,social justice minister and daughter of late jagjivan ram,has made it her only mission.donot you watch news channel.if you want to know the name of brahmin is corporate sector then you will have to search by titles.you must be knowing all south indian titles.here are some north indian one-kaul,suri.dhar,pandit,vaidya,tyagi,pandey,mishra,joshi,mukherjee,banerjee,ghose,tiwari,joshi.
 
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A

ashwin

Guest
Many of us have lost touch of the real brahmin technique for survival and supremacy advocated by the great chanakya, donot fight , watch carefully and strike when the moment is ripe. Its just a matter of time before the OBCs begin to realise that quotas have really not acheived too much.



Yes I am watching, news channels, the reservations are for SC/STs and not for OBcs, but u must know that the priuvate sector is distinctly different from the public sector. You see , even if quotas are introduced(highly unlikely, they are going to go in for affirmative action) it will be implemented in a very very different manner. The developments from here on should be interesting because, from my exp. I know that several companies have threatened the govt. about shifting operations to china and vietnam, philippines, pakistan.etc if the government tries to force something down their throat. U will not see widespred aka useless protests like u are seeing now the private sector will try to hit the govt where it hurts and they will have to budge, a fidgety private sector will send markets crashing, just wait and watch. We have to be extremely happy about the fact that the national media is almosty entirely brahmin and it too will fall under private sector. Should be fun. My grandfather was the former chief reporter of the hindu(R.Krishnaswamy iyengar). He was pretty close to MK and this is what he said to him - "Let the doctor jobs be given to 4 or 5 parpans they will do a better job" shows the true political attitude.

Many of u are talking about being us politically irrelevant let me tell u why this is so advantageous rather than other wise:


A) we dont depend on anybody.
B) U know why no political party cares about us - because most of us are well educated and can THINK for ourselves. Their propoganda wont work.
C) In many senses, the anti-brahmin wave was also advantageous to us because it led to an even more hard working and prosperous generation, while the OBC's have remained 'backward' for 60 years despite being EXTREMELY RELEVANT in the political scene.
D) fear of another anti-brahmin wave in TN is also baseless, because the OBC's are basically fighting amongst themselves(thevar's , goundars, pallars) and there really aren't too may brahmins left in TN any way.
 
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dhrub.b

Guest
they also need financial help.all detais are there.so please do whatever you can do.even a dog bite when hit.
 

mythreyi

Member
hai all,
i just had a thought of how we could help obc's on getting educated themselves.what obcs think is to get educated gain some knowldege and earn their high living which they might think can be got if gone abraod.i feel if this is the case they can as well make a move to wherever they feel they can earn leaving India at the hands of brahmins.Probabaly then we can show some good development about progressing India!
thank you
 

srkpriv

Member
Is it unnecessary fear? or necessary precaution?

Read this article....
http://ia.rediff.com/news/2006/may/23franc.htm?q=tp&file=.htm

You might think otherwise... this article is very scary...

Brahmins are successful inspite of reservation is good, but to what extent, that is the question?. I secured almost close to 90%, I was not even close to engineering in DOTE 2 colleges (those who dont know dote 2, it is the 2nd grade of selection process to engineering after the government colleges, like Anna, PSG etc.) except for private seats. The question is how more successful would we be if there were no quotas or a at a reasonable level.

Your observation of private sectors being pushed down the throat and they are protesting etc is absolutely all right. For that matter, do you think the non-brahmins who are running private educational institutions and businesses will accept this quota business. I think you do understand that private companies are run and maintained by the blood/sweat of the individual, that means they took their risks, they reap the benefits, that's how it works, whereas it is the government institutions that can alleviate the social equlity problem, through reservation (which might take a few generations to alleviate the problem), because they have nothing to lose compared to private (relatively). The private companies when thrust upon reservation, are put under risk, risk of competitive erosion!. Think about a private company or education institute for that matter has to select someone who is at 70% range as opposed to 90% range, obviously all companies/institutes wont be selecting at 90% range, but they are gonna select the top pick that they think is good for the company, by putting reservation, it completely negates their choice and also introduces a risk, that the government wont compensate!. This like of logic is what probably everyone putsforward too. Having said that, it is not hard to understand private sector protesting about reservation. But then you have to look at the overall makeup of the population 90% of them are non-brahmins (or atleast 80%), that means, whether private sector likes it or not, they will still have to take from their 80%. This logic will be used against private sector to force the reservation, I think the indian government, unlike US etc, have too much power, pretty much to the point of dictatorship to effect a legislation to this effect and nobody can do anything about it. The supreme court (yes the apex court) ruled that not more than 50% should be given for reservation, what is the reservation percentage in Karnataka, TamilNadu and Andhra for that matter.

Having business leaders from brahming community means we are not better off in general, business leader is an individual. If you look at Shiv Nadar the HCL chairman, that doesn't mean the entire nadar community is doing excellent. Narayana Murthy doesn't speak for entire brahmin community. There may be so many brahmin community at the top, but the question is how is it helping brahmin community in general.

Your thread of unnecessary fear is in my humble opinion is wrong to a certain extent. I think it is a necessary fear that we are having, that my (and yours) opportunity are eroded in the pretext of social justice and reservation. But what actually happens is reverse discrimination since they have a upper hand.

If a non-brahmin is ridiculing brahmin style, that shows his insecurity over brahmins, but that stop us from doing what we are doing (may be it will), but taking education away it certainly will. For example, inspite of my good marks, I didnt' go to engineering, but if you look at IT, all the selections around 1995 till 2002 were done on engineers first. Only when there is a shortage they go and take M.Sc (Masters), first and then B.sc or even diploma candidates. Atleast 20% of brahmin school going population (a guesstimate) should have benefitted if there were not reservation , but that 20% was cut off from education, so what do you think ,everyone went to IT.?
 

srkpriv

Member
ashwin said:
A) we dont depend on anybody.</quote>

We are dependant on everybody in a way!.

ashwin said:
B) U know why no political party cares about us - because most of us are well educated and can THINK for ourselves. Their propoganda wont work.</quote>

No body is propagating anything to brahmisn in the first place! the Brahmin bashing it taken to other communities for their political benefit. The Brahmin is not in the equation at all!. The problem is so worse that nobody is even hearing what we have to say!.

ashwin said:
C) In many senses, the anti-brahmin wave was also advantageous to us because it led to an even more hard working and prosperous generation, while the OBC's have remained 'backward' for 60 years despite being EXTREMELY RELEVANT in the political scene.</quote>

This is indeed true!. But when true competition exists, we will still try too. The OBC is not really backward, they are gettign all the government jobs, engineering/medical seats, still remain Backward because the political mass thinks it is better that way. I can self-deprecate myself to advance my society and community. Brahmins feel otherwise and fall harder and harder!.

ashwin said:
D) fear of another anti-brahmin wave in TN is also baseless, because the OBC's are basically fighting amongst themselves(thevar's , goundars, pallars) and there really aren't too may brahmins left in TN any way.</quote>

Very true!. They are fighting among themselves, but their common enemy regardless is brahmin!. They dont like brahmins, and dont want brahmisn to come up anyway!. There aren't too many brahmisn left is TN is very too as well!. Either we are too poor to get noticed or we are in foreign countries minding our own business, or we are industrialists or government officers of yester years (not past, not present) who continue to do what they are doing. that's it!.
 

srkpriv

Member
According to Wikipedia.org, in tamil-nadu and andhra, brahmisn constitute just 3 and 2% respectively and in UP, where they are in high numbers, just constitute 9% of the total populace.

From wikipedia.org;
The range and profundity of their contributions to learning and culture in India belie the fact that numerically, the Brahmins constitute a miniscule segment of Indian society. In 1931, Brahmins were 4.32% of the total population. Even in Uttar Pradesh, where they are most numerous, the Brahmins constitute just 9% of the total populace. In Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh, they form less that 3% and 2% respectively of the population

If you want more details you can go the wikipedia link to read further;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmin

Thanks.
 
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dhrub.b

Guest
dear srk,whenever i see srk i think it is shahrukh khan .hey how can you believe wikipedia to be accurate.most of the entries that are there has been contributed by communist faculty of delhi university and j.n.u.sad to say most of them are brahmin but they hate any thing brahmin very much.i know all these fact by personal exp.brahmin in u.p are not less then 15% in any case.while counting they have excluded a lot of sub communites.since they have been counted so in last caste based sensus.like tyagi brahmins,bhumihar brahmins,goswami brahmins.if brahmins were just 9% then u.p would not have given so many brahmins p.m from nehru to vajpayee.
 
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dhrub.b

Guest
why we keep harping on jobs.how many jains.marwaris(L.N MITTAL),sikhs
do job.all these communites are business basesd communites.we too should venture in business.take loans .and establish businesses.if govt donot give loans to males then takeon females.do you know a fact all top management in l.n.m ispat is brahmin.we have mind.why not use it for our own good.
 

srkpriv

Member
An alternate solution to current problem can be temporary as in I can try business, but it doesn't connect with reality as to how a poor brahmin, basically poor due to lost opportunities can even think of starting a business. Quoting that in some entity a lot of brahmins are there is not a valid point as you would see that in the future there wont be many brahmins at the top!. The reservation hasn't entirely removed brahmins and that's why we still see brahmins, but with reservation initiative in private sector and extended reservation in IITs, IIMs and so many premier institutions will ensure that brahmisn are finally removed!.

dhrub.b said:
why we keep harping on jobs.how many jains.marwaris(L.N MITTAL),sikhs
do job.all these communites are business basesd communites.we too should venture in business.take loans .and establish businesses.if govt donot give loans to males then takeon females.do you know a fact all top management in l.n.m ispat is brahmin.we have mind.why not use it for our own good.
 
S

shiva

Guest
I am not comfortable with the argument that anti-brahminism hasn't hurt Brahmins, we are doing well despite discrimination etc. There are poor Brahmins and in addition to poverty they have to fight discrimination and that is totally unfair. Further if it is perceived that Brahmins find "a way out" and thrive despite this discrimination, the anti-Brahminic forces like Ramadoss will act with even more fervor. OK, I am a US Citizen and even if my family members don't get into decent colleges or get jobs, I can support them for 2 generations... but how about others who do NOT have this support structure ?

I think ******* should form an alliance with other FCs and fight reservation.

On a lighter side, we should start a forum for 69% reservations for SC/ST/OBCs in Tamil film heroine selections :)
 
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dhrub.b

Guest
hi all.i want to share some nice things.do you know popularity of tamil brahmin actress in world.yes i am saying world.from vaijyantimala to vidya balan they have ruled the hindi fim industry.rekha,daughter of shiva ji ganeshan, is most sexiest and stylist actor hindi movies has ever seen.she is considered goddess of beauty and oomph.since hindi movies is watched all over the muslim world all these star are popular there too .they are almost worshipped there.2 years back i was in pakistan and everbody was asking about rekha and hemamalini.they were asking whether i know them personally.some said that if india will give rekha to pakistan we will giveup our claim on kashmir.in nepal or in bangladesh if a girl is extremely beautiful then she is hemamalini.and inspite so much hate and discrimination there people has suffered in tamilnadu they have so much love for it.these people are the BIGGEST AMBASSADORS OF BRAND TAMILNADU from moracco to phillipines.remember some time back when iraqi militants hadcaptured some india they said if vaijayntimala appeals they would releas them.such is the charisma of these actress world over.
 

srkpriv

Member
Someone mentioned about wishful thinking to me in another post I said I am not doing that, I am trying to be objective, I guess I can safely say that dhrub.b may be doing the wishful thinking stuff. I think you are in a fantasy world in which brahmins have a larger role in movies, business, educations, research etc, but the reality speaks otherwise. The thing is Brahmins aren't wiped out yet!, that is true!, but they will soon be, will you see that reality, I mean can you see that reality by objectifying the facts available to us. Your way of explaining the success of brahmins is very similar to a closing our eyes and think the whole world is dark!.
 
K

ksksat27

Guest
srkpriv said:
Someone mentioned about wishful thinking to me in another post I said I am not doing that, I am trying to be objective, I guess I can safely say that dhrub.b may be doing the wishful thinking stuff. I think you are in a fantasy world in which brahmins have a larger role in movies, business, educations, research etc, but the reality speaks otherwise. The thing is Brahmins aren't wiped out yet!, that is true!, but they will soon be, will you see that reality, I mean can you see that reality by objectifying the facts available to us. Your way of explaining the success of brahmins is very similar to a closing our eyes and think the whole world is dark!.

"Brahmins aren't wiped out yet!, that is true!, but they will soon be, will you see that reality, "

So your wish is to get brahmins wiped out from whole of India or TN naa?

Besh besh.......good aim........very nice attitude........this itself proves the barbarism behind the NBs when it comes to their bloody taste of power and other's properties..........take it from me IT IS NOT YOU OR ME TO DECIDE WHO WILL BE WIPED OUT.......THERE IS A SUPREME EYE WATCHING AND SOMETIMES REACTING IN TSUNAMI OR IN DEATH OF HRNC MINISTER MOMENTS AFTER HE SIGNED THE CRUEL LAW OF TEMPLE NB priests........
 

mythreyi

Member
what is brahminism? why the need to save it?

hai all,
ok let me ask u all waht basically brahminism means and why do u want to save it ?.is it coz that ur born as brahmin?or situations is affecting ur ego or is it coz that non brahmins have started to take over from us or very personally intended in improving ur style of life or what?or knolwledge ?what is this brahminism ?am confused now!
awaiting ur replies
 

subalaji

Active member
Hi Ashwin, You are right , brahmin association www.thambraas.com will give that list . We should encourage brahmin businessmen to start institutes of higher learning ( govt wont permit colleges for us ) and accomodate on merit which itself is a good one. We cna also think of getting minority status and open educational institutions, not sure why no one thought about it , it would be good if all of us can spread the message around, also each brahmin individual can help atleast one brahmin person every year
 
T

thodi

Guest
Some amount of fear leads to motivation

Friends,
You are talking about the successful brahmins,who somehow made their way up. However lot of youngsters may not be aware of the poor brahmins who succumbed to the Government pressures during the peak of Anti brahmin movement in the late sixties and the seventies. We have run around college to college trying to get any available seat in any course, with a first class and reasnably good marks. At that time the choice of brahmins was to move out of the state into Karnataka and north looking for donation paid engineering seats. I know of two of my bright classmates ,who had to work in a dairy shop after high school ending up with nothing in life. The rich farmer boys of backward community were given scholorship just based on caste.
Have you ever seen a brahmin government servant to 'goto' in any of the government establishments?? They got wiped out after the seventies.
All it takes is the technology tide to turn around and the brahmin middle class will go back to those dreaded days. The fear is that we may not have any more options to go to other states with the government pushing for a system similar to Tamil nadu every where.
Is there a way out? Ofcourse there is. We need to have strong community leaders. People have to leave their personal judgments behind and unite under the leaders. Unity is the solution and the only solution. Finance should
follow but the community is rich enough to fund any kind of momentum. Our young people should stop thinking about just their personal growth but about the community. Let us work on merging all the brahmin communities and organiztion together. Let us assign responsibilites for people and set some meaningful targets. With the communication and technology media helping us , we can stand up and straight. Let the fire start and burn.

Thodi
 

srkpriv

Member
Hi Thodi,
Great post, this is what I was telling too to many people in the forum. The reality is always different from idealogy. We should be able to see the distinction otherwise we will be complacent and lose all the opportunities. From 1970 onwards the percentage of brahmins in schools and colleges and government employments have shrunk to a great level. Obviously there are a few brahmins who made it too, but an exception is not a norm. Without reservation brahmins have a very high chance to make it to education and employment. As you said we need dynamic and good leadership. We need go getters. We may not get them outside, in my opinion one among us should do so!.

thodi said:
Friends,
You are talking about the successful brahmins,who somehow made their way up. However lot of youngsters may not be aware of the poor brahmins who succumbed to the Government pressures during the peak of Anti brahmin movement in the late sixties and the seventies. We have run around college to college trying to get any available seat in any course, with a first class and reasnably good marks. At that time the choice of brahmins was to move out of the state into Karnataka and north looking for donation paid engineering seats. I know of two of my bright classmates ,who had to work in a dairy shop after high school ending up with nothing in life. The rich farmer boys of backward community were given scholorship just based on caste.
Have you ever seen a brahmin government servant to 'goto' in any of the government establishments?? They got wiped out after the seventies.
All it takes is the technology tide to turn around and the brahmin middle class will go back to those dreaded days. The fear is that we may not have any more options to go to other states with the government pushing for a system similar to Tamil nadu every where.
Is there a way out? Ofcourse there is. We need to have strong community leaders. People have to leave their personal judgments behind and unite under the leaders. Unity is the solution and the only solution. Finance should
follow but the community is rich enough to fund any kind of momentum. Our young people should stop thinking about just their personal growth but about the community. Let us work on merging all the brahmin communities and organiztion together. Let us assign responsibilites for people and set some meaningful targets. With the communication and technology media helping us , we can stand up and straight. Let the fire start and burn.

Thodi
 
C

coookies

Guest
Ashwin and SRKPriv:

Bhramins are not a mere 3% of the population anymore. According to the 2001 census report, we constitute 12.5% of the population.

Please look up the report here :'The mathematics of reservations'
http://www.tamilnation.org/caste/reservations.htm

What is interesting to note is that, for a long time the census data has been used to demarcate reservation percentages. So, to be fair, as per the numbers Bhramins must be guaranteed atleast 10% by means of quotas too. But politicians conviniently leave us out of the picture when pegging 69% reservations.

Therefore, TAAMBRAS was right infact in requesting the govt for 15% quota for F.Cs.
 

srkpriv

Member
I dont know how authentic these reports are but assuming so, you see that bramins dont constitute the entire 12.5%, it is the open competition or the so called Forward Caste people who consititute the 12.5% actually!. So I think if you put all Iyers/Iyengars together they may constitute 5% and the rest 7.5% may be for the other FC communities. Which is still a significant percentage, but organizations like ******* is not working with other community leaders to galvanize support as far as I know.

coookies said:
Ashwin and SRKPriv:

Bhramins are not a mere 3% of the population anymore. According to the 2001 census report, we constitute 12.5% of the population.

Please look up the report here :'The mathematics of reservations'
http://www.tamilnation.org/caste/reservations.htm

What is interesting to note is that, for a long time the census data has been used to demarcate reservation percentages. So, to be fair, as per the numbers Bhramins must be guaranteed atleast 10% by means of quotas too. But politicians conviniently leave us out of the picture when pegging 69% reservations.

Therefore, TAAMBRAS was right infact in requesting the govt for 15% quota for F.Cs.
 
D

dhrub.b

Guest
hi all,srkpriv has given a very good suggestion to boycott sun tv and its all sister concern.i have some suggestion to improve this.we all should boycott ndtv india and its sister concern outlook.when all national media was with us on reservation issue this communist mouthpeice was coming out with absurd ideas to support reservation.specially boycott outlook.it will hurt them must.also do something to propagate this message.watch cnn-ibn .sagarika ghose and rajdeep sardesai ,both brahmins .atleast talk some sense.2-3 days back cnn showed thai in u.p.brahmins too are applying for the post of sweepers.it shows the actual position of brahmins.
 
T

thodi

Guest
Boycott SUN TV

I am an NRI and I absolutely agree that we should boycott SUN TV. The left over brahmins like Visu working for SUN are leaving the TV.
Boycotting just in India is not going to help. Their major revenue source are from abroad. I am disconnecting today.

Thodi
 
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