Ragam Haimavathi and ragam Haymavathi.Are both ragams same?
Thullatha manamum thullum…….
- Thread starter Dr. Anandi Ramakrishnan
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Raji Ram
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As far as I know there is no rAgam Haimavathi / Haymavathi.
The pradhimadhyama rAgam of KaraharapriyA is HEmavathi, the 58th rAgam in the mELa chakram.
The very popular song is:
M S Subbulakshmi Sri Kaantimathim Hemavathi Adi Muthuswami Dikshitar - YouTube
Raji Ram
Active member
There are not many songs based on HEmavathi rAgam in film music. A R R has used Dharmavathi rAgam often.
We find one song in HEmavathi rAgam in the film 'Puthupatti Ponnuthayi' - Song 'Manam pOla mAngalyam'.
Here is the link to all the songs including this.
Puthupatti Ponnuthaye - tamilmp3 - no1tamilsongs.com, Tamil ...
We find one song in HEmavathi rAgam in the film 'Puthupatti Ponnuthayi' - Song 'Manam pOla mAngalyam'.
Here is the link to all the songs including this.
Puthupatti Ponnuthaye - tamilmp3 - no1tamilsongs.com, Tamil ...
Since I am not very familiar about the raagas, I thought, why not put a few
points which I heard about from my friends.
I suppose it may be difficult to exactly say about the Raagam, unless
one studies the music properly. Some say, they develop Kelvi-Gnaanam, How far it would be
possible. Perhaps one may have to learn it by enjoying classical music or cinema music
to start with. One of my friends who is well-versed with music used to say to his
students the following while coaching them the music lessons.
(a) One has to start with light songs or cinema songs enveloping pure classical music-
Raagaas. Of which one may have to select a few songs of our tastes.
(b) He used to tell to find out from friends or relatives who is familiar with music to
identify the name of the Ragaas particularly on the songs one likes very much. At the first
instance, he used to say to commence with important or popular ragaas like Kalyani
(c) Further he used to say to hear the song repeatedly and memorise the name of the
raaga as well as the song.
(d) Based on their advice, hear the song repeatedly and get familiar including thalam.
(e) This method paves to find our or identify the appropriate songs generally for
all the basic raagas. These can be termed as main songs for the person to learn
especially with regard to raagas. These songs could form part of cinema songs also.
(f) He further used to say and invite his students to music concerts to enable them
to listen to the songs, he never used to give importance to aalaapanas initially.
(g) He used to give importance to all the keerthanas and the matching key-songs;
to enable the person to understand memorise the raaga. He will insist everyone
to observe and co-relate with the raaga he has taught and the name of the
relevant raaga, stating that it may not be difficult.
(h) After that he will teach slowly the secondary raagas also. He used to proceed
step by step.
(i) He always used to say proper learning and singing bring confidence in a person
and experience will become the best teacher, to identify the ragaas instantly.
Why I am writing all these, is to show to your Command over Raagas and mastery in
music. All the best wishes Madam.
Balasubramanian
Ambattur
points which I heard about from my friends.
I suppose it may be difficult to exactly say about the Raagam, unless
one studies the music properly. Some say, they develop Kelvi-Gnaanam, How far it would be
possible. Perhaps one may have to learn it by enjoying classical music or cinema music
to start with. One of my friends who is well-versed with music used to say to his
students the following while coaching them the music lessons.
(a) One has to start with light songs or cinema songs enveloping pure classical music-
Raagaas. Of which one may have to select a few songs of our tastes.
(b) He used to tell to find out from friends or relatives who is familiar with music to
identify the name of the Ragaas particularly on the songs one likes very much. At the first
instance, he used to say to commence with important or popular ragaas like Kalyani
(c) Further he used to say to hear the song repeatedly and memorise the name of the
raaga as well as the song.
(d) Based on their advice, hear the song repeatedly and get familiar including thalam.
(e) This method paves to find our or identify the appropriate songs generally for
all the basic raagas. These can be termed as main songs for the person to learn
especially with regard to raagas. These songs could form part of cinema songs also.
(f) He further used to say and invite his students to music concerts to enable them
to listen to the songs, he never used to give importance to aalaapanas initially.
(g) He used to give importance to all the keerthanas and the matching key-songs;
to enable the person to understand memorise the raaga. He will insist everyone
to observe and co-relate with the raaga he has taught and the name of the
relevant raaga, stating that it may not be difficult.
(h) After that he will teach slowly the secondary raagas also. He used to proceed
step by step.
(i) He always used to say proper learning and singing bring confidence in a person
and experience will become the best teacher, to identify the ragaas instantly.
Why I am writing all these, is to show to your Command over Raagas and mastery in
music. All the best wishes Madam.
Balasubramanian
Ambattur
Raji Ram
Active member
Dear Bala Sir,
It is not necessary to learn cinema songs initially. In fact, it is very difficult to sing them with correct pitching! There are lots of
simple keerthanais in Carnatic music. If my kutty students are able to repeat what I sing, with correct swara sthAnam, I teach
them easy songs along with the basics. They get more interested in music. Those who can not get the correct swara sthAnam
have to be trained well before venturing into songs. I have found really brilliant students even when they are just 5 or 6 years
old. I strongly believe that music comes thro' blood!! Many of my friends deny this though!!
My son was able to sing swaram for the songs that I hum, when he was a two and half year old, tiny tot!
Ragards...........
mskmoorthy
Active member
Since there was a poem for Sri nIladayaakshi in some other thread ( http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/literature/9512-ambal-neelayadakshi-song.html#post149435 ), I am reminded of Sri Muthuswamy Dihitar's kriti (lyrics are given along with video)
(TM Krishna is the singer - rAgam rItigowlA, mArkazhi mahOtsavam 2008)
T.M.Krishna - 8.1 - sri neelOtpala nAyikE - nAri reetigowLA - mArgazhi mahA utsavam 2008 - YouTube
T.M.Krishna - 8.1 - sri neelOtpala nAyikE - nAri reetigowLA - mArgazhi mahA utsavam 2008 - YouTube
(TM Krishna is the singer - rAgam rItigowlA, mArkazhi mahOtsavam 2008)
T.M.Krishna - 8.1 - sri neelOtpala nAyikE - nAri reetigowLA - mArgazhi mahA utsavam 2008 - YouTube
T.M.Krishna - 8.1 - sri neelOtpala nAyikE - nAri reetigowLA - mArgazhi mahA utsavam 2008 - YouTube
Dear Bala Sir,
It is not necessary to learn cinema songs initially. In fact, it is very difficult to sing them with correct pitching! There are lots of
simple keerthanais in Carnatic music. If my kutty students are able to repeat what I sing, with correct swara sthAnam, I teach
them easy songs along with the basics. They get more interested in music. Those who can not get the correct swara sthAnam
have to be trained well before venturing into songs. I have found really brilliant students even when they are just 5 or 6 years
old. I strongly believe that music comes thro' blood!! Many of my friends deny this though!!
My son was able to sing swaram for the songs that I hum, when he was a two and half year old, tiny tot!
Ragards...........
Thank you very much for the input. My grand daughter is now attending music
class for the past one month.
Balasubramanian
Ambattur
Dear RR ji,
When I was in Manipal as a student..some construction work was going on nearby my room.
A young construction worker used to sing when he was working and when he was resting he used to play a small instrument that resembled a violin.
That time my mum happened to be visiting me and she heard this young guy sing and she was just mesmerized by his voice.
All the film songs he sang was just like hearing the original singer.
My mum later asked him if he had formal training in music and he said no.
His voice was just superb and my mum felt sad that his talent would just go undetected.
But generally speaking I have observed that Indian Citizens naturally sing much better than any NRI or Non Citizen.
I feel it is partly exposure to music since childhood.
But I feel singing Hindi songs are much easier than singing Tamil songs.
One needs to be a really good singer to be able to handle Tamil songs.
When I was in Manipal as a student..some construction work was going on nearby my room.
A young construction worker used to sing when he was working and when he was resting he used to play a small instrument that resembled a violin.
That time my mum happened to be visiting me and she heard this young guy sing and she was just mesmerized by his voice.
All the film songs he sang was just like hearing the original singer.
My mum later asked him if he had formal training in music and he said no.
His voice was just superb and my mum felt sad that his talent would just go undetected.
But generally speaking I have observed that Indian Citizens naturally sing much better than any NRI or Non Citizen.
I feel it is partly exposure to music since childhood.
But I feel singing Hindi songs are much easier than singing Tamil songs.
One needs to be a really good singer to be able to handle Tamil songs.
Raji Ram
Active member
Dear Renu,
What you say about that guy without formal training is true in several other cases too! One of my students used to sing
whatever I teach with notation, without following the notation! She keeps the tunes in mind and sings. She used to amaze
me! Even for 'saraLi varisai', she has to learn the tune - otherwise she will sing the notes in a different way!!
I think I wrote something wrong in my earlier post. Music can come by blood or by 'poorva janma vAsanai'!! :thumb:
One of my uncles used to play songs in any instrument given to him - harmonium, flute or violin. If we ask for the notation
of the song, he can never say it! You might have seen guys playing difficult film songs in the 'kottAnkuchchi vAdhyam' with
one string and a tiny bow! They are really amazing artists. :high5:
Dear RR ji,
That's how I used to learn music by ear and by memory.
My piano teacher used to get mad with me that I was not reading the notes but playing by memory.
Even before I formally learnt music I could play any song I heard on the piano ...don't ask me how but my fingers just knew where to go.
My younger brother used to learn Carnatic Music before and I used to wait for him outside his class (I did not learn Carnatic cos I was learning Western Music).
So by just hearing the teacher teach him I could remember all the SaraLi Varisai and even correct my brother when he goes wrong during home practice.
I see even my son sings from memory more than looking from notes.
The new way of teaching music these days is play by the ear too.
But mostly people stick to conventional methods.
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I have seen the new method of teaching alphabets to children by showing them words like ant, book, cat, dog, elephant
with pictures. By seeing the pictures, they learn the words and alphabets together.
Yes it is called Word Recognition Method.
We actually read by Word Recognition and not by spelling it.
So that's why by hearing one learns faster too.
So our ancients got it right..by the Shruti method of learning by hearing.
Raji Ram
Active member
That is right, Renu!
But my student whom I mentioned about in my earlier post, can not remember the swarams but sings them by remembering the tune!!
She can not sing any notation on her own. Now she is teaching in Singapore! I wish to attend one of her sessions and watch her teaching!
That is right, Renu!
But my student whom I mentioned about in my earlier post, can not remember the swarams but sings them by remembering the tune!!
She can not sing any notation on her own. Now she is teaching in Singapore! I wish to attend one of her sessions and watch her teaching!
I get it cos even I am like that..if you give me a western music piece to sing..I will be blinking.
I need to play it on the piano and remember the tune only then I can sing it or I can remember by hearing the song sung by someone.
So it does have some drawbacks cos either I need a musical instrument or hear the song being sung first.
Raji Ram
Active member
So, my student was not unique!!
So, my student was not unique!!
Dear RR ji,
Many people sing from memory.
The brain retains the song pattern.
It is a Audio Recognition pattern just like how we read by Word Recognition.
Many people even sing songs in languages they do not understand.
For example..I have Malay staff who can sing Hindi songs very well when they do not even understand a word.
Most of us too can sing in languages we do not understand.
BTW singing in a tune like fashion or reciting by memory without understanding should not come as a surprise.
Most priest also do recite mantras and sing Sanskrit songs without understanding the meaning of anything.
Raji Ram
Active member
Dear Renu,
Most of the front line Carnatic musicians do not understand Sanskrit, Telugu, Kannada, Hindi except a few words but
still sing compositions in those languages! It SEEMS to be easy to remember the seven notes and its variations like -
Ri 1, Ri 2, Ga 1, Ga 2 etc but that student has to be memorize the tune to sing the notations, just as we memorize the
lyrics! One who learnt Carnatic music for years together NOT knowing these is still strange for me!
PS: That student recorded the basic lessons from SaraLi varisai to AlankArams because she forgot the tune! Geetham
onwards, she finds it easy because she knows how to sing the lyrics!! (eg. Sri GaNanAtha)
Raji Ram
Active member
I want to share my experience with another interesting student. He was my son's classmate and wanted to learn five songs
only! He does not know the basics but knows to repeat the tunes. I insisted that he should learn the notation which will help him
later on, if he forgets the tune. He did! But whenever I ask him to sing the ArOhaNam and avarOhaNam of the rAgam, he will hum
the pallavi of the song to get the notes and then sing them!! Cool, right? Now I am teaching his technique to other students,
who do not get the ArOhaNam and avarOhaNam right away! :high5:
It SEEMS to be easy to remember the seven notes and its variations like -
Ri 1, Ri 2, Ga 1, Ga 2 etc but that student has to be memorize the tune to sing the notations, just as we memorize the
lyrics! One who learnt Carnatic music for years together NOT knowing these is still strange for me!
Ri1,Ri2,Ga 1,Ga 2.. all these 1 and 2 are like Sharp and Flat keys in western music.
Western music has symbols for all this Ri1,Ri2,Ga 1,Ga 2.
I always wondered why Carnatic music did not employ symbols ..(may be there is and I do not know).
Symbols are easier to like what it given in the pic below taken from Wikipedia.
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Raji Ram
Active member
A very melodious bhajan by Priya sisters. I love this song!
Priya Sisters Gopala gokula Tulsidas Bhajan- Kanchi Venugopala Tirukkolam - YouTube
Priya Sisters Gopala gokula Tulsidas Bhajan- Kanchi Venugopala Tirukkolam - YouTube
Raji Ram
Active member
The same song in the enchanting voice of Smt. Jayashree:
GOPALA GOKULA by BOMBAY JAYASHREE - YouTube
GOPALA GOKULA by BOMBAY JAYASHREE - YouTube
Raji Ram
Active member
No symbols in Carnatic music. We have only 'saptha swarams'. It is possible to sing songs set to a few easy rAgams only, with the
help of notation. The subtle difference in notes and 'gamakams' found in many rAgams have to be learnt under proper guidance,
to get them correctly. RAgams like SahAna, Ahiri, Anandhabairavi, Thodi, DhanyAsi and many more, are difficult to learn just
with the notation, unless we know the 'swaroopam' of the rAgam completely.
Though there are only 12 notes in one octave - S, R1, R2, G1, G2, M1, M2, P, D1, D2, N1 and N2 - we have 22 sruthis in one
octave, which means that there are inbetween 'swarams'. For example, though SankarAbharaNam and KalyANi have same N2
according to notation, KalyANi nishAdham has to be nearer to S, which is one sruthi higher than SankarAbharaNam Ni.
Fascinating, right?
My son is capable of writing notation very easily and his friends used to take his help to play film songs on keyboard, because
Carnatic teachers teach the swarams and not the symbols as in the western music. They used to comment,'eppadi Ezhu
swaraththilE ellAp pAttum varadhu?'
Raji Ram
Active member
Here is one of the master pieces of Smt. Vani Jayaram - 'Ezhu swarangaLukkul eththanai pAdal:
http://youtu.be/51YPPoBKllg
One of the oldest famous songs.
Vellai Thamarai Poovil - By Subramaniya Bharathiyar, Rendered by K.J. Yesudas - YouTube
Vellai Thamarai Poovil - By Subramaniya Bharathiyar, Rendered by K.J. Yesudas - YouTube
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