Theory of Karma

[saidevo]

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namaste smt.HappyHindu.

Many thanks for the enlightening points in your posts #584 and #599. This is the first time I came across terms like 'absolute brahman, nirguNa brahman and conditioned brahman', in that order. Please clarify these points about them:

01. Is this the order from the top? 'absolute, nirguNa, conditioned' brahman?

02. Is 'saguNa brahman' the same as the 'conditioned brahman'? Where does the praNava/shabda/nAda brahman fit in this hieararchy?

03. So, the flow as you say is: the yogi experiences absolute bliss and peace when he is merged with the 'conditioned brahman'; this is lost and all awareness blanks out as he progresses to the next stage 'nirguNa brahman'; and finally, his soul merges with 'absolute brahman', becomes omniscient and gets endowed with all powers except the power of creation.

Would this mean that a jIvan-mukta in nirvikalpa samAdhi at all times, like BhagavAn RamaNa maharShi for example, was merged only with the 'conditioned brahman' during his lifetime?

Would this also mean that the Buddhist concept of shUnyata on nirvANa is only the middle stage and that the Buddhist yogi is still to attain the state of 'absolute brahman' to become omniscient?

04. Puranas speak of VishvAmitra maharShi creating a svarga--heavens/universe, for the king Trishanku. How was this possible when even the most accomplished soul in liberation is not endowed with the powers of creation?

05. You said eminently in post #599:
IMO this point is also misused because some link this to caste. IMO every soul's intrinsic desire is moksham whether it is consciously aware of that or not. And IMO every soul is endowed with the ability to merge into brahman.

I totally agree with you that mokSha--liberation, is the legacy of every soul, which has an intrinsic desire towards it, although the soul itself may not know it until after many cycles of reincarnation.

In the light of this assertion, what do you think about shrI Sangom's statement in post #600, wherein he perceives a link between karma and caste?

Thank you once again, for your clarifications.

 

[sravna]

namaste smt.HappyHindu.

Many thanks for the enlightening points in your posts #584 and #599. This is the first time I came across terms like 'absolute brahman, nirguNa brahman and conditioned brahman', in that order. Please clarify these points about them:

In addition to the above you might also want to know about sravna brahman, fickle brahman, selfish brahman etc.

HH, just in jest!

 

[nachi naga]

brahman is the samskritham equivalent term in english for god.

now then we have conditioned god,absolute god,...we humans are simply marvelous beings... ...with different nations with different languages with different mind sets i wonder why hindus restricted god to 33 million only..maybe its our karma to do so...ain't sanathana dharma wonderful and all embracing doctrine

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Shri Yamaka,

The philosophy of science and that of religion are so different that one who follows science finds religion uttering gibberish and the one who is religious finds science as something we can do away with. The problem therefore is one does not or does not find it necessary to understand the other. With this caveat let me proceed with my pov.

Every soul coming into the physical world comes in to being with the least spiritual knowledge and so has to learn and acquire such knowledge to attain what hinduism calls as moksha or liberation from the physical world. Since soul is spiritual in nature, to be in the physical world it has to dwell in a physical body. The physical world serves the purpose of deluding the soul. Why should it delude the soul? Because spiritual knowledge is not acquired on a platter. Only if you go through all possible experiences, both sufferings and happiness do you really get a feel of all of them. To be able to rise above both the feelings of joy and sorrow and to attain liberation you have to have these experiences.

I am sure to be fair to all the souls , each one of them goes through similar experiences, at least equivalent experiences in their path towards moksha. It is only that each one is at a different stage in the process of evolution we seem to see the differences in the conditions of people.

Hinduism I repeat is not fatalistic. Only when something says that do not do anything because everything is predetermined then you can call it fatalistic. And Karma theory I think is a rational explanation given the premise of underlying spiritual reality.

Dear Sravna:

I take it then those people who are suffering in abject poverty in India (and elsewhere) in spite of praying Gods all day have no recourse in this world. They only go through all possible experiences, all sufferings (no happiness for them so far) just to get a feel of it!

How do you say that each soul goes through similar experiences ? About 300 million Indians who now live in comforts don't know much about poverty. Right now, at what stage of their "evolution" these affluent people live when their brethren are locked inside the Gates of Hell of Poverty?

I guess what I am asking is

Do you have a religious solution to the abject poverty in India?

Cheers.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna:

I take it then those people who are suffering in abject poverty in India (and elsewhere) in spite of praying Gods all day have no recourse in this world. They only go through all possible experiences, all sufferings (no happiness for them so far) just to get a feel of it!

How do you say that each soul goes through similar experiences ? About 300 million Indians who now live in comforts don't know much about poverty. Right now, at what stage of their "evolution" these affluent people live when their brethren are locked inside the Gates of Hell of Poverty?

I guess what I am asking is

Do you have a religious solution to the abject poverty in India?

Cheers.

Dear Shri Yamaka,

Scientists typical way of looking at a problem. Tell me what do people who live in poverty lack? And tell me what do people who live an unethical and immoral life lack? You give me a solution for the latter. The solution for the former I think will automatically follow.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Shri Yamaka,

Scientists typical way of looking at a problem. Tell me what do people who live in poverty lack? And tell me what do people who live an unethical and immoral life lack? You give me a solution for the latter. The solution for the former I think will automatically follow.

As well to include, do scientifically inclined people who all are non believers of GOD and spirituality have any sort of lacking in their human life?

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Shri Yamaka,

Scientists typical way of looking at a problem. Tell me what do people who live in poverty lack? And tell me what do people who live an unethical and immoral life lack? You give me a solution for the latter. The solution for the former I think will automatically follow.

1. Yes, Scientists look at a problem, analyze it and TRY hard for a possible solution.. perhaps, that's what I am trying here!

2. Why do people live in poverty, what do they lack?

My immediate answer is

a. Most lack good education and necessary skills for the labor market
b. Spending too much time in practicing their Religion by way of bhajans, poojas and prayers, thinking that the Merciful and Almighty God will alleviate their problems.
c. Moderately educated people don't find jobs because of poor economic policies of the Govt.
d. Too big a Family to take care of using the poor income they could earn etc. etc.

Your question on unethical and immoral life is hard to answer... I believe of the 800 million devout Hindus who suffer in abject poverty, nearly 80% are ethical and moral.

Again, I am asking you and other Believers of Karma - JPK- Theory: What's your Solution to the abject poverty in India?

Cheers.

 

[Yamaka]

See Yamaka..its not that I dont want to give my views cos whatever I say you will say Neti Neti..oops Sanskrit again.

Ok Ok..I will give just 1 view:Who ever told you that someone is born poor due to previous birth sins?
Karma is not always measured with the material scale.

Renuka:

I don't like Sanskrit because Scholars have advised me that it's a complicated language with multiple meanings for each word! Such complex meaning would confuse very many people.

"Who told you that someone is born poor due to previous birth sins?"

Is it not the essence of the JPK Theory? Then, please explain what's JPK in your world.

How do you measure Karma in material and immaterial scale?

Finally, Can you articulate a Religious Solution to the Abject Poverty of Devout Hindus living today?

Why I stress devout Hindus here? Because you need not worry about "all others" who are condemned to suffer because of hundred other reasons!

 

[sravna]

1. Yes, Scientists look at a problem, analyze it and TRY hard for a possible solution.. perhaps, that's what I am trying here!

2. Why do people live in poverty, what do they lack?

My immediate answer is

a. Most lack good education and necessary skills for the labor market
b. Spending too much time in practicing their Religion by way of bhajans, poojas and prayers, thinking that the Merciful and Almighty God will alleviate their problems.
c. Moderately educated people don't find jobs because of poor economic policies of the Govt.
d. Too big a Family to take care of using the poor income they could earn etc. etc.

Your question on unethical and immoral life is hard to answer... I believe of the 800 million devout Hindus who suffer in abject poverty, nearly 80% are ethical and moral.

Again, I am asking you and other Believers of Karma - JPK- Theory: What's your Solution to the abject poverty in India?

Cheers.

What I meant was scientists typically look at the effect than at the cause.

Most people have what it takes to live a good standard of life. But why do they suffer? Why is wealth so unevenly distributed? Because of politicians whose sole objective is to stash money in foreign banks, businessmen who really only care for their profitability etc. The one root cause is the moral corruption of people that makes them look at a selfish angle.

It is religion that can offer a permanent solution to this problem by working on this cause. Once people think that they need to embrace others the cause of the problems is gone. No amount of planning, policies etc can root out the problem if people are corrupt at heart. At best you can suppress it and is not a permanent solution. You need to work on people's minds and that only spirituality does.

 

[C RAVI]

1. Yes, Scientists look at a problem, analyze it and TRY hard for a possible solution.. perhaps, that's what I am trying here!

2. Why do people live in poverty, what do they lack?

My immediate answer is

a. Most lack good education and necessary skills for the labor market
b. Spending too much time in practicing their Religion by way of bhajans, poojas and prayers, thinking that the Merciful and Almighty God will alleviate their problems.
c. Moderately educated people don't find jobs because of poor economic policies of the Govt.
d. Too big a Family to take care of using the poor income they could earn etc. etc.

Your question on unethical and immoral life is hard to answer... I believe of the 800 million devout Hindus who suffer in abject poverty, nearly 80% are ethical and moral.

Again, I am asking you and other Believers of Karma - JPK- Theory: What's your Solution to the abject poverty in India?

Cheers.

Shri Yamaka,

Based on your concluding statement, that you often state, do you think that beleivers of GOD and spirituality beleive that with such belief and spirituality they can ahceive what ever pleasure they want?

Do you assume that, such beleivers are menatlly incapable to analyze and acheive what they want ?

Do you feel that by rejecting GOD and spirituality, those suffering poor people can have ways & means to scale high?

Do you beleive that people are doing prayers, bhajans and beleive in Poorva Janma Karma to make sure that they can ever remain successful materialistically?

Do you conclude that if some believers dwell in spirituality with only motive of getting rich, invariably makes the point clear to you that the concept GOD/Spirituality/poorva janma karma are all paradoxes?

 

[renuka]

Renuka:

I don't like Sanskrit because Scholars have advised me that it's a complicated language with multiple meanings for each word! Such complex meaning would confuse very many people.

"Who told you that someone is born poor due to previous birth sins?"

Is it not the essence of the JPK Theory? Then, please explain what's JPK in your world.

How do you measure Karma in material and immaterial scale?

Finally, Can you articulate a Religious Solution to the Abject Poverty of Devout Hindus living today?

Why I stress devout Hindus here? Because you need not worry about "all others" who are condemned to suffer because of hundred other reasons!

Yamaka,

Thats not how JPK goes.Its not as easy as it seems.Its far more complex than what it seems.
Just becos a person appears "lesser advantaged" to the world that doesn't mean he is having a bad karma.
Ok from what I have read(which I know you wont believe anyway)..a karmic pattern is "chosen" by the Subtle body which harbors the soul prior to birth.

This particular pattern is what is the most conducive for an individual cos the ultimate goal for us is to reach moksha.
Some individuals choose a more "difficult" life to use up their Sanchita to propel them towards liberation faster.
Even if an individual is suffering due to past karma..Hinduism teaches its followers that Service to Mankind is Service To God and this provides an oppurtunity to everyone to participate and help each other climb up the karmic scale.
From time and again..emphasis is given that the world is our family and for every action there is a reaction for us and for others too.
Its like a symbiotic relationship.

Understanding Karma is not as easy as click,copy and paste for each action and reaction cos Karma is complex and we have no idea when Sanchita will come into action in which birth.

Karma doesnt mean we are like "brain dead" and every action of us is pre programmed.
We still have Agamin Karma that is determined by our current actions..thats our Free Will.
Prarabdha is what is currently going on.

Poverty is subjective.Its seen all over the world in any nation.

A man who has more money than me might call me poor.

I might want to call a man who is rich in desires as the beggar in the spiritual scale.

You know dear..somehow I can only think of Sanskrit when I reply you.

You know in Sanskrit..the word King and Beggar are the same... Lokanaatha.

King ...Lokanaam Naatha(He who is the Lord of the people)
Beggar...Loka Naatha Yasya Sah.(He who patrons are the people)



BTW what have you done to eradicate poverty?

P.S. Dont worry you dont stress out anyone here.In fact after a long day at work since i work 12 hours a day..its nice to unwind and search "what did yamaka write today"

 

[sarang]

Dummy's guide to karma theory:

1. Everyone has a bagful of sanchita karmas, both good and bad, accumulated over several births. More good karmas in this birth means the bag fills with more goodies than baddies.

2. Of this vast store, the prarabdha, a portion of our karma assigned to us to be worked out in our present existence. It is also called ripe karma, for it is a debt which has become overdue, and must be paid back. Which karma is selected is - random or by divine interference - you can have your pick.

It is prarabdha karma which determines the family into which you are born. It determines the race, the nation in which you take birth; it also determines your sex, the type of body you will acquire etc.

3. So, one has to blame or praise himself for what he is today. He cannot blame his forefathers, or brahmins or anyone else for that matter. You reap what you sow.

4. You change the quality of your sanchita karma inventory by doing good deeds, following dharma (!). Blaming others for your present condition will not add good karmas to your bag. On the other hand, engaging in good karmas will improve your life in this birth and will give a better start in the next.

5. Is it possible to empty the bag in one go, in the present birth? Accepted view is - yes, with good behaviour on your part, and withe divine grace.

6. And there are karmas which do not add to the inventory; they fructify immediately and return good or bad results.

 

[saidevo]

namaste everyone.

"What is the solution offered by religion and spirituality to the abject poverty of the hundreds of million people (why only Hindus) all over the world, when a majority of them are morally upright and religiously devoted?"--This is the crux of Yamaka's question.

The answer is simple:

01. The abject poverty of the multitude with morals is solely due to the abject poverty in the morality of the people who rule over them for their own selfish ends.

02. The karma involved here, is not pUrva-janma-karma, but tatkAla-karma--karma generated in the present times. The powerful select few exercise their free will in every possible amoral way to create bad karma for them (to be experienced later), which leads to the suffering of the multitude in abject poverty.

03. As the famous adage goes, 'money is the root of all evils'. It is money that drives the lives of the select powerful to deprive the multitude of their normal life. It is money that drives the world of science too, to silence its conscience against misuse of its concepts and products.

04. Science has managed to get released from the clutches of a religion like Christianity that tried to dominate it initially. Why hasn't science, which is the field of the best of the most brilliant minds, devised a way to free itself from the clutches of politics?

I think it is Bhagavan Das who suggested that the scientists all over the world should have formed a powerful apex body that could monitor fair distribution of the products of science and technology and also ensure fair application of its concepts.

Thus, the lack of will to unite and assert on the part of scientists the world over, is equally responsible for the prevailing situation of abject poverty among the moral multitude.

 

[C RAVI]

namaste everyone.

"What is the solution offered by religion and spirituality to the abject poverty of the hundreds of million people (why only Hindus) all over the world, when a majority of them are morally upright and religiously devoted?"--This is the crux of Yamaka's question.

The answer is simple:

01. The abject poverty of the multitude with morals is solely due to the abject poverty in the morality of the people who rule over them for their own selfish ends.

02. The karma involved here, is not pUrva-janma-karma, but tatkAla-karma--karma generated in the present times. The powerful select few exercise their free will in every possible amoral way to create bad karma for them (to be experienced later), which leads to the suffering of the multitude in abject poverty.

03. As the famous adage goes, 'money is the root of all evils'. It is money that drives the lives of the select powerful to deprive the multitude of their normal life. It is money that drives the world of science too, to silence its conscience against misuse of its concepts and products.

04. Science has managed to get released from the clutches of a religion like Christianity that tried to dominate it initially. Why hasn't science, which is the field of the best of the most brilliant minds, devised a way to free itself from the clutches of politics?

I think it is Bhagavan Das who suggested that the scientists all over the world should have formed a powerful apex body that could monitor fair distribution of the products of science and technology and also ensure fair application of its concepts.

Thus, the lack of will to unite and assert on the part of scientists the world over, is equally responsible for the prevailing situation of abject poverty among the moral multitude.

Excellent post Sri saidevo!!!!!!!


:clap2: :yo: :thumb:

Hope your post above would enlighten the most needy both in their personal life and social life as humanist/naturalist..

 

[nachi naga]

yamaka

Again, I am asking you and other Believers of Karma - JPK- Theory: What's your Solution to the abject poverty in India?

1.donate dollars unconditionally with no strings attached.poverty gone,poyindi,cholay gacchay,poiduthu.....now thats a solution for sometime.instead provide jobs earning capacity to live with honor and dignity.which is the same world over just not in india.

2.technology transfer.

3.people to people interaction to foster amity peace friendship.

 

[Yamaka]

What I meant was scientists typically look at the effect than at the cause.

Most people have what it takes to live a good standard of life. But why do they suffer? Why is wealth so unevenly distributed? Because of politicians whose sole objective is to stash money in foreign banks, businessmen who really only care for their profitability etc. The one root cause is the moral corruption of people that makes them look at a selfish angle.

It is religion that can offer a permanent solution to this problem by working on this cause. Once people think that they need to embrace others the cause of the problems is gone. No amount of planning, policies etc can root out the problem if people are corrupt at heart. At best you can suppress it and is not a permanent solution. You need to work on people's minds and that only spirituality does.

Dear Sravna and Other Believers of JPK Theory:

1. I stress here that Scientists look at an issue comprehensively, BOTH the cause and effect. Their approach mostly is "Get to the Bottom of the Issue & Solve it"

2.Your assertion "Most people have what it takes to live a good standard of life" is patently wrong...the 800 million devout Hindus that I am referring to (who are below the Federal Poverty Line) do NOT have what it takes to live a good standard of life.

Here, our view of the world is quite different.

You blame the wealthy and the corrupt politicians... that's only a small part of the problem, the major issue lies elsewhere, which you don't want to address.

As I said before 80% of the poor devout Hindus under the FPL are moral and ethical people.

You claim that religion that can offer a permanent solution: In India religion has been reigning supreme for over 3000 long years! It has NOT solved the problem of abject poverty....

Some of you claim that Hinduism is NOT FATALISTIC... I totally disagree:

My dictionary says that FATE is the Belief, Concept or Idea of an External Force or Agency that controls every outcome in the world. As per the Jenma Poorna part of the JPK Theory whatever happened in the previous generations that have the effect and impact in the present world.

If you put these things together, then I believe the core of Hinduism is about FATE and therefore is fatalistic, imo.

Finally, I conclude that Hinduism has to passively accept that Abject Poverty among the Devout Hindus is due to the FATE of the sufferers, period.

It has NO Solution.

This for an Atheist like Yamaka is an atrocious position of Hinduism. Or the Hinduism is the PROBLEM, not the SOLUTION.

More later...

 

[Yamaka]

yamaka

1.donate dollars unconditionally with no strings attached.poverty gone,poyindi,cholay gacchay,poiduthu.....now thats a solution for sometime.instead provide jobs earning capacity to live with honor and dignity.which is the same world over just not in india.

2.technology transfer.

3.people to people interaction to foster amity peace friendship.

My solution is

1. Don't be religious, be pragmatic and reasonable. Reasoning is the KEY in all.

2. Take full charge of your life and family.

3. Improve your education and skills; prepare fully for the job market.. always enhance your marketability

4. Work harder than anybody around you.

5. Have a child, only when you are financially able and competent... Keep the size of the family to 1 -2 kids maximum.

6. Do not force-feed Religion to your kids... let them live according to their understanding of a GOOD life.

7. Elect political leaders who will solve YOUR financial and economic problems.

8. Do not break the law.

9. If possible, generously give a helping hand to the people poorer than you.

10. Be a moral and ethical person, for which NO religion is a necessity.... Religions largely mislead people.

ETC.

A Full Disclosure: Yamaka follows all this Ten Commandments given above... that's why Yamaka is what Yamaka is as per his portrait of his Personality and Life (including his Bragging Rights, LOL).

 

[prasad1]

you and what other army is going to enforce this rule? Are you sure your rule will alleviate the problem of the world?
What a supper ego, don's try to leave your house as the door frame has not been widened.

 

[Yamaka]

namaste everyone.

"What is the solution offered by religion and spirituality to the abject poverty of the hundreds of million people (why only Hindus) all over the world, when a majority of them are morally upright and religiously devoted?"--This is the crux of Yamaka's question.

The answer is simple:

01. The abject poverty of the multitude with morals is solely due to the abject poverty in the morality of the people who rule over them for their own selfish ends.

02. The karma involved here, is not pUrva-janma-karma, but tatkAla-karma--karma generated in the present times. The powerful select few exercise their free will in every possible amoral way to create bad karma for them (to be experienced later), which leads to the suffering of the multitude in abject poverty.

03. As the famous adage goes, 'money is the root of all evils'. It is money that drives the lives of the select powerful to deprive the multitude of their normal life. It is money that drives the world of science too, to silence its conscience against misuse of its concepts and products.

04. Science has managed to get released from the clutches of a religion like Christianity that tried to dominate it initially. Why hasn't science, which is the field of the best of the most brilliant minds, devised a way to free itself from the clutches of politics?

I think it is Bhagavan Das who suggested that the scientists all over the world should have formed a powerful apex body that could monitor fair distribution of the products of science and technology and also ensure fair application of its concepts.

Thus, the lack of will to unite and assert on the part of scientists the world over, is equally responsible for the prevailing situation of abject poverty among the moral multitude.

Dear Saidevo:

1. I restricted to "Hindus Only" in the discussion because some of you - the Hindu Supremacists - would opine that others suffer because they don't follow Hinduism, that simple it is!

2. As I said, good 80% of the poor people in abject poverty are moral and ethical people. Their skill and educational level is such that they can earn ONLY Rs. 20 per day, according to Arundhati Roy. I agree with her.

3. "Money is the Root of ALL Evils" you say... my contention is most of these 800 million devout Hindus have no money to spare! They could not earn much money... hence where is the evil to talk about? They just need reasonably a "good" standard of living... Won't you - the Believers - provide them?

4. Science and Technology has done tremendous good to the Society since the days of Industrial Revolution... just look around you - now I am writing to people who are about 12,000 miles away, who can immediately read my posts and respond! S & T has conquered time and space!! And provided us with leisure time to blather all we want. Lol.

5. S & T has survived and worked in spite of ALL the clutches of Religion and dirty politics.

It's a promise for the future, whether or not Religious Believers acknowledge it....

And, S&T has created multi millions of jobs all over the world.... Jobs are the Solutions for the Abject Poverty. Skills are the doors to get into good jobs.

Hence Yamaka & Co are in the business of Solutions to the Poverty problem, where Religions have failed utterly and bitterly by invoking the dictum

"God Giveth... Man Taketh"!! And "It's your Janma Poorva Karma" Lol

More later....

 

[prasad1]

Dear Saidevo:

1. I restricted to "Hindus Only" in the discussion because some of you - the Hindu Supremacists - would opine that others suffer because they don't follow Hinduism, that simple it is!

2. As I said, good 80% of the poor people in abject poverty are moral and ethical people. Their skill and educational level is such that they can earn ONLY Rs. 20 per day, according to Arundhati Roy. I agree with her.

3. "Money is the Root of ALL Evils" you say... my contention is most of these 800 million devout Hindus have no money to spare! They could not earn much money... hence where is the evil to talk about? They just need reasonably a "good" standard of living... Won't you - the Believers - provide them?

4. Science and Technology has done tremendous good to the Society since the days of Industrial Revolution... just look around you - now I am writing to people who are about 12,000 miles away, who can immediately read my posts and respond! S & T has conquered time and space!! And provided us with leisure time to blather all we want. Lol.

5. S & T has survived and worked in spite of ALL the clutches of Religion and dirty politics.

It's a promise for the future, whether or not Religious Believers acknowledge it....

And, S&T has created multi millions of jobs all over the world.... Jobs are the Solutions for the Abject Poverty. Skills are the doors to get into good jobs.

Hence Yamaka & Co are in the business of Solutions to the Poverty problem, where Religions have failed utterly and bitterly by invoking the dictum

"God Hiveth... Man Taketh"!! And "It's your Janma Poorva Karma" Lol

More later....

Good, will we see any workable action plan from y? We are yet to see any social problem being solved.

 

[Govinda]

2. As I said, good 80% of the poor people in abject poverty are moral and ethical people. Their skill and educational level is such that they can earn ONLY Rs. 20 per day, according to Arundhati Roy. I agree with her.

Most of the poor lives in the rural areas. Their poverty has got nothing to do with skill/educational level, it has got to do with the industrialization and the government's lack of interest in the rural, agricultural people Once a 90% agricultural India, has 65% rural population. India was once a fertile, rich country that attracted foreign invaders, India was known for its maritime trade. The trade routes to India was called as silk/spice routes. Read Gupta Empire, called as Golden Period, even artisans were granted fertile lands/profits, meaning they were very rich and fertile.

Acc. to Gita, ""Perform your prescribed duty, for action is better than inaction. Only the ignorant perform duties with attachment to results and the intelligent act without attachment " Gita Chapter 3. Acc. to Gita, the one with both strategy(order and work-devotion) and character is lauded as the intelligent.

Karma Yoga (concept of Hinduism) is is to take responsibility for one's actions else will bite even in the next lives. So, those who can dodge the law, will be bitten by PJK. [JPK sounds dys-lexic]

The scientists inventions were the culprits. The urban industrialists/politicians/ richmen started industries - fertilizers/chemicals, that polluted the water streams, soil and the produce. The governments promoted only cash crops not food crops, for their own benefit of Exports/StockValues and also promoted GM crops which cannot yield seeds. Thus, 200 thousand farmers ended in debt and committed suicides. The corrupt were the ones that lived in the urban areas, who didn't believe in PJK theory These are the ones who will be born everytime in ethiopia without food/water, but will subsist on dead skulls/flesh, to validate the PJK theory to their own self.

How Government Kills Poor Farmers: The GM Genocide | Reason For Liberty

This doesnt stop here, those who wanted to escape the rural atrocities, landed up in cities. Without proper job schemes, they ended up in slums. But, this site claims that India is adding 60 to 70 million people to its middle class every year, due to more loans, subsidized rations, reservations in jobs and education, free noon-meal schemes, etc. Poverty in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would think, the 'peruchAligals', those in all schemes would even steal those opportunities and fill their banks. 20 years ago, I knew of MBC's, SCs who were already MLAs, BHEL/PWD engineers, were still availing reservations for their children who themselves were top-scorers in Engg/Medical exams. Greediness knows no-means, why cant they sacrifice those reservation for the poor? Some of them were muslims, some hindus...Even if you give the poor, chances for education, it takes 21 years to complete the stupid western education, and they needed a permanent job to do that for their offsprings. Even after that, there are bribes and corruption among reservation gothram alumnis/politicians, which eventually cannot eliminate poverty. All these urban corruptionists are all rich, educated or literates, so, richness or education cannot solve the greediness, which is in their karma (PJK/consciousness) , this can be eliminated only by spiritual methods. [and everyone is not smart like Yamaka!]

Instead, first provide a good agricultural setting and promote self-sufficiency, and then govt should follow up with education schemes, which is an uncertainty in the corrupt india

my contention is most of these 800 million devout Hindus have no money to spare! They just need reasonably a "good" standard of living... Won't you - the Believers - provide them?

Ofcourse, those NRIs hindus or those who are going thru recent spiritual awareness, are definitely giving donations for the charity work done by spiritual organizations. By inviting those gurus to foreign lands, we are mobilizing funds to support the various causes in India. Rich men/politicians can be brought to the fold of spirituality and make them invest (mobilize money) rather than have their money locked up in banks and relax on their corrupt attitudes. Those organizations started to promote core spiritual values/philosophy behind hinduism, rather than plain religiosity for personal welfare. We are already making differences.

 

[Govinda]

4. Science and Technology has done tremendous good to the Society since the days of Industrial Revolution... just look around you - now I am writing to people who are about 12,000 miles away, who can immediately read my posts and respond! S & T has conquered time and space!! And provided us with leisure time to blather all we want. Lol.

..A Big lull......

Look at how the GM foods, ferilizers, pesticides are being made..
The Future of Food - Introduction - YouTube
The Future of Food: What Every Person Should Know with Deborah Garcia

The farm equipment, industries, GM seeds, pesticides ruin the water supply, the quality of produce, the soil and the integrity of our foods.

Read the dangers of DDT, endosulfan in youtube, as faced in kerala.

Do you want to know how much and how long, our cultivable soil, water streams are polluted by industrial leaks, wastes and pollution? Here it is:
5. Vapi, India
Death of a Community Foretold - Part 1 of 3 - YouTube
Chemical factory sealed in Cuddalore after poisonous gas leak - YouTube
and much more...

How about air pollution? I think, We have 2 billion vehicles in india for 1 billion pop.
Air and water pollution cause 1.3 millions of deaths - YouTube
NeoMask - Air Pollution in India - Face Mask required whilst travelling in Indian Cities.wmv - YouTube
I forgot the leather industries in Ranipet, those british and muslims ruined us completely.
Leather Tanning pollution in Vellore - YouTube
We wont be able to control them instead would polute the landfills more by producing masks.
Oops! I forgot about the billion electronics items we would poluted the lands with? How about those
many destroyed rockets, airplanes, ships, vehicles etc. Where do they all go? How much do they pollute the air? We already knew of many oil spill incidents in the oceans.

Do you want to know all the accidents throughout the world?
List of accidents and disasters by death toll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aren't we gone crazy with the idea of westernization, industrial revolution. We lost our basic needs and health, hygiene due to this craze. If those rishis were here, they would have mocked the poverty of our wisdom! Every text of hindusim was practising non-violence, nature preservation and hygiene. We ruthlessly destroyed agriculture lands, sources of water and built innumerable buildings. Our govt. is promoting cash crops, chemical products to earn exports and economy, finally letting their own people rot without quality water, food and air. How greedy has the science and modernization led us to? Oops! I got to earn, to buy the organic foods. Those guys in India must be diving in pollutants even in those veggies, greens and fruits, how can they afford organic foods [we cannot even grow such in the spoiled soil/lands]? Now I know, why they eat onions/garlic for curing cancer, as they dont have access to quality vegiies/fruits to prevent cancer. This is definitely our PJK.

Next comes the great nuclear revolution, we have those Indian hospitals/doctors & co opening 5000 scan centers for commercial interests, and everyone is privileged to obtain 3 CT scans, becos they are scientific advancements. Antibiotics, yet another discovery, let us fill ourselves with prescription-free antibiotics whether viral or bacterial infection. and now worrying about its resistance. How about x-rays, microwaves, i-phones/wireless, we are proud of our statuses...but are all dangerous and cancer-causing. In the United States, of approximately 600,000 abdominal and head CT examinations annually performed in children under the age of 15 years, a rough estimate is that 500 of these individuals might ultimately die from cancer attributable to the CT radiation.

Now, the same US/Europe that once promoted inventions, are realizing to the ground fact of preserving nature and relying on nature. Why would we need any of these medicines or unnecessary fantasies, if we have access to the healthy food, water,air, simple yoga/breathing and stressfree clean environment? Weren't our ancients smarter in preservering health than us working for the cures.

How about this nuclear craze, the scientists like Hahn and Meitner, were hijacked by the Nazi for their Nuclear Fission research, which gave them confidence for the World War. Chernobyl, 3-mile island (US), Fukushima, Bhopal has horror stories. Millions died of cancer and are suffering still. Not just that, they also leaked tonnes of nuclear waste water into the rivers.

5. S & T has survived and worked in spite of ALL the clutches of Religion and dirty politics. It's a promise for the future, whether or not Religious Believers acknowledge it....

Because greediness and 'Ignorance of consequences' are bliss, the commercialism kept the S&T alive.

The promise for the future is 'Going green' then people will get rid of these crazy inventions that are dangerous to the environment.

And, S&T has created multi millions of jobs all over the world.... Jobs are the Solutions for the Abject Poverty. Skills are the doors to get into good jobs.

S&T didn't create any new jobs. The ancient system had the same no. of jobs in education, kings/administration, army and architecture[construction]. Inturn, S&T had lured the jobs of agriculture and the no. of machines reduced the no. of manpower. Plus, caused all the pollution, hazards, damage to the basic resource systems, which will cost huge amount for cleanup. The agriculture kept everyone hassle-free and healthy and hunger/disease free.

Science/Scientists only see through the brain(hence things), but don't seem to use the brain wisely.

The right principle, means , the result and its future implications should be taken care in every one of our Actions, else all of them will contribute to the bad karma. Bringing back the 'green, white and the blue revolution' is the way to eliminate poverty, provide health and save the planet. I strongly believe providing the infrastructure for the rural people and promoting agriculture is the best future. We need more entrepreneurs like this Asian Noble, http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/lightingrural-india/441350/ [not using nuclear energy ] But, the hopes are only a silver lining, as we have caused much damage, and people like Yamaka have not realized yet.

"God Hiveth... Man Taketh"!! And "It's your Janma Poorva Karma" Lol

"Man Taketh, God Taketh" is the result of Global Warming/Industrial-scientific revolution. Lol!

 

[Yamaka]

Hello ALL:

Please read this from WSJ: This information does not contain "what the Scientists unofficially know" about which I have been writing here sometime ago... A lot more is already known to people in the Labs on human cloning, problems and promises:

Human Stem Cells Created Using Cloning Technique - WSJ.com


ps. Now Steve Jobs is gone. Very sad, very sad... World has lost one TRUE visionary who revolutionized the way the world was thinking of computing and computers!

I hope his Foundation tried to clone him using Human Cloning I have been talking about..... Oh well... what a loss, if we really let Steve go... World will miss you, Steve...I salute you for all that you did to all of us.

 

[happyhindu]

In addition to the above you might also want to know about sravna brahman, fickle brahman, selfish brahman etc.

HH, just in jest!

No prob Sravna, hope you took it sportingly...You do have some nice concepts. Just that you are confusing the meaning, for an important term like Nirguna-Brahman; which Adi Shankara has already described totally differently. Shankara's nirguna is a void.

But Sravna's Nirguna is not a void (it analyses, judges, and is hence egositical. Since it judgemental values varies based on circumstances, hence it is fickle-selfish). Sravna, its a good idea to seperate the judgemental-brahman from the absolute-omniscient-brahman. You do have underlying concepts. Just that you need to define them more. I sincerely suggest you to develop your concepts. But by using appropriate words for your concepts.

All the best.

 

[Govinda]

A lot more is already known to people in the Labs on human cloning, problems and promises:

Human Stem Cells Created Using Cloning Technique - WSJ.com


World has lost one TRUE visionary who revolutionized the way the world was thinking of computing and computers!

I hope his Foundation tried to clone him using Human Cloning I have been talking about..... Oh well... what a loss, if we really let Steve go...

Yamaka,

What a strange line of thinking!!!!

We don't need to clone anyone. We dont need any more inventions/researches, all these money can feed the whole of Africa.

Providing clean water, air and enviroment is sufficient for producing healthy/organic foods. All this will eliminate the poverty. We wouldn't have strange diseases, when all the resources are pure and the prevention is taken care. Why do we need a cure?

So, you switched from solving poverty into crazy researches. Talk to rural people, they need only food, not your cure for diseases. The body is self-immune and self-repairing, if the cleanest food, air and water are fed. Why are we battling for cure, when we can adventure for the preventions?

From the typewriters to microprocessors to umpteen versions of ics, to umpteen versions of sotware/hardware discs to iphone/pad series, where did we dump them all?? Into those water sources of the agricultural lands?? Where do they go in millions of tonnes? electronics recycling - YouTube All these waste from developed countries goes to Africa, India. Electronic Waste Hell Ghana Africa - YouTube
E Waste - YouTube

Let us stop fantasizing! Let us come to reality.

Let us provide a greener environment and great values, all knowledge is useless when they cannot be realistic/natural.

Pl. read my posts #621 and #622 carefully. Why did you dodge my posts??