The Sin of being born a Son in Hindu society

[sankara_sharmah]

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"Janani Janma-bhoomi-scha Swargadapi Gariyasi" जननी जन्मभूमिश्च स्वर्गादपि गरीयसी

Mother and motherland are superior to Heaven

- Ramayana

 

[P.J.]

Nowadays most Tamil Brahmin Parents know the cost of Final Rites , and it is increasing day by day; As we are aware of this , we have provided enough Fund in our Bank account, and also made it known to our son, if we happen to die in a Foreign land, all final rites can be done there itself in a very simple manner; if we happen to die in India, the same rule applies;
Fighting between daughter and son is not happening in every Hindu Family on Property matter; it all depends upon their mutual understanding. As far as we are concerned, we see both our son and daughter equally in all matters.

Being born in a Hindu Family , as a Vegetarian is a real blessing.

 

[sangom]

I do not think my sons "not going abroad" is because of my wishes.[/QUOTE}

Dear Shri Sharmah,

You have written in post # 72 as follows:

I did not want my children to go abroad because I wanted them to reach me in a short time and i also wanted that I should be able to visit them easily. When my son went abroad frequently, we did have some apprehensions.

This is what gave me the impression that your wanting your sons to be near you at all times might have shaped their choices and hence their future.

As Carl Schurz said "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. "

Even that statement has been questioned.

'My country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.'

When did Patriotism become an outmoded concept/belief?

In the Global Village concept patriotism has to be at a discount. What is possibly needed is the approach of "vasudhaa Eva kuDumbakam" (All world is (my) family.).

 

[sangom]

The good thing about the Vedas and Upanishad is that you can go looking for anything and you are sure to find it. But the (sad) truth is that you are not supposed to go looking for something, but taking what it is supposed to deliver.

Dear Shri ozone,

I have recorded my "like" for the above post. But I will differ in the point that you can find anything in the Vedas and Upanishads. They may be outstanding specimens of Sanskrit scholarship and poetic genius of a very remote past. But a truly scientific approach is sadly absent in these texts. Barring the Rigveda whose original stage, whether the present form has come about as a result of collating the most secret and sacred prayer hymns which belonged to individual Rishi lineages, etc., are as yet not fully decided points, the Yajus and Atharva concern primarily with rather non-scientific topics like yajnas or sacrifices and the fees payable to each priest (Yajurveda) and some part of the rigvedic hymns to be sonorously chanted at certain specific points during each yajna (saamaveda).

Your second observation viz., "you are not supposed to go looking for something, but taking what it is supposed to deliver" is 101% correct. Our religion has over the millennia made the Indian society into an unquestioning gullible crowd which will go to any extent in safeguarding the (vested) interest of the priestly class or Brahmins which are fully reflected in these scriptures.

As our veteran member Kunjuppu often says, perhaps EVR was the only person who could initiate a kind of rethinking among the vast majority of the Tamil Hindus; even Chaarvaaka could not probably achieve this much. Buddha and Mahaaveera did the mistake of presenting alternate philosophies to their followers; our priests were so adept in the game of concocting philosophies that when required, they even allowed Buddha into the pantheon of ten avataaras of Vishnu! (Jina was overtaken by Buddha incidentally.)

 

[ozone]

Dear Shri Sangom,
I quite agree with your observations and response. But where I differ is in not writing them off as unscientific. I believe (ofcourse with no supporting evidence) that modern technology and medicine perhaps has some roots or origin from the scriptures themselves. This I say because we can correlate any new findings and prescriptions back to some practices.


The sad and the missing part ofcourse is the origin of these science and technology from a land not inclined or devoted to the scriptures. Perhaps there is some missing information there.


The praise and prescription to the priestly class of course does not go well with the current setup and need not be viewed as significant as being portrayed. If you could replace the scriptures with engineering or medicine, you can find such priestly sections amongst us even today. So, human's needs have not changed, just that it has fallen into different hands and its still not yet ripe (worsened) for another reform.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,
I quite agree with your observations and response. But where I differ is in not writing them off as unscientific. I believe (ofcourse with no supporting evidence) that modern technology and medicine perhaps has some roots or origin from the scriptures themselves. This I say because we can correlate any new findings and prescriptions back to some practices.

I am not familiar with many of such instances where modern technology and medicine can be traced to some roots or origin from the hindu scriptures. If we are talking about the wheel, I feel this cannot be traced to any particular civilization now, with surety. The next is aeroplane and our Pushpaka Vimaana; since we do not have any technical details about the Pushpaka Vimaana, I think we should leave it as a figment of poetic imagination, and treat that as a lucky coincidence just like Jules Verne's From the Earth to the Moon and H. G. Wells' The First Men in the Moon. The third item of which I know is the crude type of small-pox vaccination which used to be practised in Maharashtra, Bengal, etc., by native mendicants from a particular caste. Here I feel it is quite possible that this could have been further researched by the Europeans till Edward Jenner stumbled on the modern practice of inoculation.

Two points are noteworthy in this context, imho. One, our hindu society singularly lacked the capacity to think and improve any of its technologies, or medicinal practices; our religion had a very powerful stultifying (crippling) effects on the minds of even the upper castes who had a little bit of freedom left to ask fundamental doubts but there were possibly no gurus or achaaryas who would nurture this culture. Hinduism became ossified into a lump of beliefs and unquestioning acceptance of the interpretation of the scriptures given out by the priestly class. This had taken place long ago, although today's 'new crusaders of hinduism' like to blame it on the British colonization — a convenient escape clause for them. But when we see that during the last 20 years or so when many countries have patented very many software programmes and are reaping profits also through them, India with all the chest thumping has not been able to successfully patent even one software for world wide use and all that we are boasting is about our gigantic e-coolie work force and the wages earned through exploiting this workforce in routine jobs. That exactly is why you see —

The sad and the missing part of course is the origin of these science and technology from a land not inclined or devoted to the scriptures. Perhaps there is some missing information there.

The praise and prescription to the priestly class of course does not go well with the current setup and need not be viewed as significant as being portrayed. If you could replace the scriptures with engineering or medicine, you can find such priestly sections amongst us even today. So, human's needs have not changed, just that it has fallen into different hands and its still not yet ripe (worsened) for another reform.

I agree that in any field of human knowledge and achievement there will be some who have trodden the path earlier and achieved the status of High Priests. But two differences you will see between modern engineering or medicine on the one hand and hinduism on the other; in the former any one could be a High Priest, there is no caste system there and two, the High Priests cannot completely and irrecoverably damage or destroy any new advancement in their respective field/s nor are they effective in preventing effectively, new High Priests coming up successfully. Otherwise we would not see the constant advancements in science every year to which we have been witness.

I therefore would like to disagree with your conclusion. Human's needs have changed and so has the system; that is why the world has experienced so much progress during the last 200 or 250 years and humanity is now thinking of colonizing the Moon, Mars, etc.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Sangom Sir,

Excuse me if this is an intervention.

This is about your post #81:

I am not familiar …………now, with surety. The next is aeroplane and our Pushpaka Vimaana; since we do not have any technical details about the Pushpaka Vimaana, I think we should leave it as a figment of poetic imagination, and treat that as a lucky……….. The third item ………modern practice of inoculation. Two points are noteworthy in this context, imho. One, our hindu society singularly lacked the capacity to think and improve any of its technologies, or medicinal practices; our religion had a very powerful stultifying (crippling) effects on the minds of even the upper castes who had a little bit of freedom left to ask fundamental doubts but there were possibly no gurus or achaaryas who would nurture this culture.

Capacity to think-Are you sure you are right? Some of the best minds were born in this country. So capacity to think was not the exclusive preserve of any tribe from the western hemisphere.

Improving the technology-yes, we could not do that because it involved heavy investment without being sure about the returns. The first airplane was one such technology. At that crucial period in the history of the world (a few centuries), we were ruled by foreigners-this includes the invaders from across the Khyber. Hindus lived a life with severely curtailed freedom. Under many of the rulers they even paid a tax for being Hindus. A severely crippled, stultified religion could not have any damaging effect on its followers unless it was bent upon committing hara-kiri. Inventing medicines, airplane, and many other machines like IC required not just the brains but the organizing capacity. An entrepreneur with adequate financial resources and with a will to take risk (this risk taking capacity is a function of the financial resources at his command) organizes human, material and knowledge resources to produce a technological product. In an atmosphere in which any organization was looked down upon with suspicion, was put down as possible nucleus for a rebellion how can enterprising skills flourish? Overwhelming misery could have made entrepreneurs dare the heavy odds. But that was not to be as the mother earth in this part of the earth was fertile, adequately endowed with perennial water resources and other material resources. Nature was bountiful here. So there were no compelling circumstances which would have made people dare the rulers and rise in a rebellion. The rulers were also engrossed in enjoyment and entertainment once they settled down here. We had a Nawab who referred to a leading religious academy a question as to where should the semen be deposited in the case of a coitus interruptus and we had Imams giving their answers to such questions after applying their minds and after going through volumes of religious literature. So it was not Hindus but every one under the foreign yoke (including followers of other faiths) had no choice when it came to organizing themselves or organizing the various resources to achieve a technological goal. In such an overwhelming atmosphere our Acharyas and other learned people did only one thing – thinking. Their freedom to think could never be curtailed. So we produced some of the brilliant minds whose output in Epistemology and metaphysics can never be equaled by any one from any other part of the world.

Though it may look like a blaming game I have to write this here because you are putting all the blame squarely at the door of priestly class-a camouflage for Brahmins. The failure to preserve Bharathvarsh and its unique and beautiful culture and rich heritage as well as its resources(human and material) was that of the ruling class of this country and not that of the priestly class. Priestly class did not go war. It is the miserable failure of all the ‘royal’ kshatriya clans who ruled different small kingdoms, and their internecine quarrels in this Bharatvarsh that led to the slavery of India under foreign rulers. The same kshatriyas are ruling even today after saying, like you say, that but for the priestly class India would have been a heaven on earth. They are myopic, immature and stupid as they had always been. Wait for the denouement as Maruthuvar Ramadoss has just started dealing his cards. This is becoming lengthy. I will deal with your other points in the following posts.
Cheers.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Sangom Sir,

This is the part 2 of my criticism of your post #81:

Hinduism became ossified into a lump of beliefs and unquestioning acceptance of the interpretation of the scriptures given out by the priestly class. This had taken place long ago, although today's 'new crusaders of hinduism' like to blame it on the British colonization — a convenient escape clause for them.

The priestly class gave interpretations of only spiritual knowledge. It was given only to those who sought it. It was not thrust upon any one who was not interested in it. Your attempt to preempt the relevant argument as an ‘escape clause’ does not wash. It is just your view. It is not only the British colonization; it is also the foreign rule by tribes from across the Khyber which has also to be included in the dark age of Bharathvarsh.

But when we see that during the last 20 years or so when many countries have patented very many software programmes and are reaping profits also through them, India with all the chest thumping has not been able to successfully patent even one software for world wide use and all that we are boasting is about our gigantic e-coolie work force and the wages earned through exploiting this workforce in routine jobs.

Dear Sir, World has become a global village. Today if a country A has enterprising talent with financial resources and the countries B,C and D have qualified human resources and a country E has all the material resource necessary for the purpose, then a technological product is developed by all these people coming together. It is difficult to find out whose contribution is more to the development of the product. Thus if MS brings out a new versatile OS or a new cloud computing SW it is not that only the extraordinarily brilliant Americans did it. It is the joint effort of many brilliant minds. And Indians are not excluded from the team. Patents are a different ball game. The brilliant minds that you choose to call e-coolies are not ordinary people. The very nature of SW industry is such that these coolies have to know much more about the product they handle than what my driver would know about the IC engine under the bonnet of my Honda City car. In some cases they have to be quite aware of what is happening at the logic gate level or in some cases even below that at the silicon and doping level. That is brain and not bran. There is no meaning in inventing the proverbial wheel again. So we use what is available and move forward even while participating in the development of new technological products. A new software is a cost intensive venture and takes a lot of time to develop. So we need large financial resources to invest and the period of waiting is also painfully long. This is just to put you in the picture at the right spot.

But two differences you will see between modern engineering or medicine on the one hand and hinduism on the other; in the former any one could be a High Priest, there is no caste system there and two, the High Priests cannot completely and irrecoverably damage or destroy any new advancement in their respective field/s nor are they effective in preventing effectively, new High Priests coming up successfully. Otherwise we would not see the constant advancements in science every year to which we have been witness.

It appears you are not aware of something called technology denial regime in place with many developed countries. That is nothing but a crude high priest attitude-to use your words. India is getting its act together and we know what are our strengths. When we become advanced we will still have people accusing us of priestly mischief. You have said there is no caste system there. Yes that is why their scientists have discovered WMD, AIDS virus,Thermo nuclear weapons and terminataor genes for important commercial crops. If they had caste system (not caste discrimination, lest I am misunderstood here) they would have placed all scientific research in the hands of satvic castes and the genie would never have been let out of the bottle.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Problems of Parents in Puranas

An impression is created by the older generation that the problems of elderly parents is of a recent origin. As usual they put the blame on modern society.

But this is totally False. The problem of looking after elderly parents has been there for centuries.

You would all have heard of Pandarpur and Panduranga. He is one of my favourite Gods. My first son is named after him.Now the story of Panduranga is as under.

Pundlik legend from Padma Purana.

The Pundalik legend appears in Sridhara and as a variant in the Padma Purana. Pundalik, a Brahmin madly in love with his wife, neglected his aged parents as a result. Later, on meeting sage Kukkuta, Pundalik underwent a transformation and devoted his life to the service of his aged parents. Meanwhile, Radha, the milkmaid-lover of Krishna, came to Dwarka, the kingdom of Krishna, and sat on his lap. Radha did not honour Rukmini, the chief queen of Krishna, nor did Krishna hold Radha accountable for the offence. Offended, Rukmini left Krishna and went to the forest of Dandivana near Pandharpur. Saddened by Rukmini's departure, Krishna searched for his queen and finally found her resting in Dandivana, near Pundalik's house. After some coaxing, Rukmini was pacified. Then Krishna visited Pundalik and found him serving his parents. Pundalik threw a brick outside for Krishna to rest on. Krishna stood on the brick and waited for Pundalik. After completing his services, Pundalik asked that his Lord, in Vithoba form, remain on the brick with Rukmini, in Rakhumai form, and bless His devotees forever.

The film Haridas is a variation of this story.

Puranic stories are written generally with a purpose.

1. To indicate a standard of behavior. That is a Moral.

2. To promote a God that is to propagate a religious sect.

The Puranas play an important role in the Hindu society as they lay down the standards of behavior.

The Panduranga story was written to emphasize the importance of looking after elderly parents. The story would not have been written if they had no problems. If all the sons at the time of Padma Purana were looking after their elderly parents, the story would not have been necessary.

They pay encomiums to the Joint family system. In a Joint family system the son stayed with the father. Not the other way around. That is why so much of talk against தனிக் குடித்தனம். That war has been lost. As per the latest census 75% of the families in Tamil Nadu are Nuclear families. I think it is almost 100% among the Tamil Brahmins.

The migration of Tamil Brahmins to other cities/abroad has thrown up the model of staying with the son. This a new norm we have evolved to suit our requirements That has created a multitude of problems. We do not know whether this is the ideal model. But this is right now seems the best model.

 

[sangom]

An impression is created by the older generation that the problems of elderly parents is of a recent origin. As usual they put the blame on modern society.

But this is totally False. The problem of looking after elderly parents has been there for centuries.

You would all have heard of Pandarpur and Panduranga. He is one of my favourite Gods. My first son is named after him.Now the story of Panduranga is as under.

Pundlik legend from Padma Purana.




The film Haridas is a variation of this story.

Puranic stories are written generally with a purpose.

1. To indicate a standard of behavior. That is a Moral.

2. To promote a God that is to propagate a religious sect.

The Puranas play an important role in the Hindu society as they lay down the standards of behavior.

The Panduranga story was written to emphasize the importance of looking after elderly parents. The story would not have been written if they had no problems. If all the sons at the time of Padma Purana were looking after their elderly parents, the story would not have been necessary.

They pay encomiums to the Joint family system. In a Joint family system the son stayed with the father. Not the other way around. That is why so much of talk against தனிக் குடித்தனம். That war has been lost. As per the latest census 75% of the families in Tamil Nadu are Nuclear families. I think it is almost 100% among the Tamil Brahmins.

The migration of Tamil Brahmins to other cities/abroad has thrown up the model of staying with the son. This a new norm we have evolved to suit our requirements That has created a multitude of problems. We do not know whether this is the ideal model. But this is right now seems the best model.

Dear Shri Sharmah,

Even if we assume, for argument's sake, that Padma Purana carried the Pundalik story to correct the social evil of parents being neglected by children, some points remain.

1. The system of Vanaprastha which is actually वनप्रस्थ (vanaprastha), or destined to the forest, seems to have started during a period when old people who were no longer productive, in a predominantly agricultural society, decided to vacate voluntarily, their position (and stay) in the joint family and proceed to the forest (most villages those days must have had forests within accessible distance in those days of yore when population was low, the lower castes were already living in the fringes of villages, etc.) was already there. This had the sanction of the religion also. Hence, it does not appear that parents being not looked after by son/s would have been a serious concern of Padma Purana which is supposed to be one of the earliest Puranas.

2. There is one section of informed opinion that just like the tribal deity iiyyappan (ஈய்யப்பன்) was morphed into ayyappan and made into an offspring of (who else) shiva and vishnu in his female form of mohini, by the Namboothiris, Vithoba is a morph of a local hero named ஈட்டப்பா or வீட்டப்பா who was in the folk memory of the lower castes and tribes in and around Northen Karnataka/South east Maharashtra and they had built a memorial temple in Pandharpur and worshipped him as their god. Around the 13th. century A.D. or so, the high caste people built a temple there and collected all the offerings and moneys which the lower caste pilgrims brought as offering but these lower caste devotees were not allowed to enter inside the temple and had to satisfy themselves with a darsan from outside the temple. Only after Independence has the temple been opened for all. The brahmin temple is supposed to be at a location away from the original tribals-built shrine.

3. The story of Pundalik is found not only in Padma Purana but also in Skanda Purana and Vishnu Purana also.

4. In order to justify the name vithoba, it is possible that this story of Pundalik was fabricated. eeTh (ईठ) in Marathi means brick. Pundalik throwing a brick to the waiting deity to rest seems most unnatural, to say the least.

Hence let us not try to establish that aged parents were neglected by sons even in ancient times with Pundalik as the evidence.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Sangom,

Vanaprastha Ashrama seem to have disappeared long back. Tamil Brahmins seem to believe that it is Nished. I do not know how far back long this belief evolved.

Human beings have human shortcomings. To Err is human. I do not think the humans were perfect at any point of time. 100% good behavior on the part of sons. Improbable.

Then the story extolls the virtue of caring for the parents. They would not have not done so if Vanaprastha was the norm.

 

[ozone]

Dear Shri Sangom,
Your post ref #81.


3 of the 4 Varnas had been entrusted the responsibility of studying, preserving and transferring the knowledge of Vedas and Sastras. So, I do not agree with you that there were any restrictions. As you agree, there is always High Priest mindset in the society. It so happened that the lines were drawn on the basis of castes at that time.
Even today, there are numerous institutions where High Priest-ness is practiced. It just happens that the opportunities available are many, that the impact of these are not being highlighted or as in many cases not visible.


There are multiple examples of engineering leadership and self sufficiency in our country.
Dams that stood for several years, Palaces, meeting halls etc., still are viewed as engineering and artistic marvels.
Temples with huge Gopurams both in height and weight also represent knowledge in science, physics, chemistry etc.,
As regards contribution in the software and electronics field we are not the leaders or any way close. But to brush off that the society lacked the capacity to think is not accurate. Even in the late 80's Wipro had products such as InstaPlan that was eyed in the west. The Infrastructure, network, resources and funds needed were the reason for our lag, and not the human thinking or creativity. Today, for the small and medium enterprises Tally - a fully indigenous product is the leader in the accounting area.
I therefore feel the reasons for our lag were economics and leadership and not capability.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,
Your post ref #81.


3 of the 4 Varnas had been entrusted the responsibility of studying, preserving and transferring the knowledge of Vedas and Sastras. So, I do not agree with you that there were any restrictions. As you agree, there is always High Priest mindset in the society. It so happened that the lines were drawn on the basis of castes at that time.

Dear Shri ozone,
3 of the 4 varnas were allowed to study veda but it is not true that all of them were permitted to transfer or teach the veda/s which they had learnt. This right was a monopoly of only those brahmins who had completed their vedic study successfully and also completed all the vratas or disciplines prescribed for brahmacaryam. You are free to disagree with me but there are evidences to support this view.

The High Priest mindset is different and when actual High Priests of religion themselves become the High Priests in the field of knowledge, it is a very different matter, imho. Therefore, the caste-based system of disseminating knowledge was very different from today's scientific/technological scenes; today, the High Priests may be lording it over some associations and all, but one will find thousands of very able and competent teachers who are not HPs, available for disseminating the knowledge, plus we now have the internet which is a different way to learn, practically anything.

Even today, there are numerous institutions where High Priest-ness is practiced. It just happens that the opportunities available are many, that the impact of these are not being highlighted or as in many cases not visible.

I am not talking of "opportunities" in the context of employment and earnings but in regard to learning. Kindly see the para above.

There are multiple examples of engineering leadership and self sufficiency in our country.
Dams that stood for several years, Palaces, meeting halls etc., still are viewed as engineering and artistic marvels.
Temples with huge Gopurams both in height and weight also represent knowledge in science, physics, chemistry etc.,

As regards Dams I am aware of only one in the Tanjore area. As for palaces, meeting halls, temples, aayirakkaal mandapams etc., we must note that sculptors, pot makers, brass/bronze/silver/gold workers and so on were considered as vaisyas at one point of time. But there was a continuous demotion of many groups of people to the sudra category during the millenia in which the caste system ruled the roost in this country. For example, the BG 18-44 says कृषि गोरक्षवाणिज्यं वैश्यकर्मस्वभावजम्. But in most parts of India the tillers of the soil who do the real कृषि, and the castes which rear cows, sheep, goat, etc., (गोरक्ष) have all been demoted to the sudra or further lower categories.

This continuous caste degradation, had deprived all these people from improving their knowledge base and contributing more and more to the society; instead they all got downgraded into low castes, untouchables, etc., who just did their jobs in a routine manner just to eke out their subsistence. All the technical skills and knowledge were lost as a result. This is the real reason for our downfall, imho, and not economic causes.

Take sthapatis for instance. These people were given an important place in the vedic era for their contribution towards building the yaagasaala and certain other works. But over time, the sthapatis who were vaisyas, got degraded to sudra category. Today these people are making attempts to call themselves as Viswakarma people but they now do not want their original vaisya status but recognition as SC and benefits of reservation! This is just one example of the results of the actions of the High Priests of society who went about rather systematically in ensuring that they were the only and maximum beneficiaries of the toil of the rest of the populace.

As regards contribution in the software and electronics field we are not the leaders or any way close. But to brush off that the society lacked the capacity to think is not accurate. Even in the late 80's Wipro had products such as InstaPlan that was eyed in the west. The Infrastructure, network, resources and funds needed were the reason for our lag, and not the human thinking or creativity. Today, for the small and medium enterprises Tally - a fully indigenous product is the leader in the accounting area.
I therefore feel the reasons for our lag were economics and leadership and not capability.

I do not know much about softwares. So, I am unable to comment on your observations. However, I have been told that Tally's plus point is that it has been designed to maintain accounts in Indian languages. It does not have world-wide market like adobe photoshop or even some of the games. However from roughly 1995 onwards we have had Infosys and so I don't think we can blame India's non-performance on economics or leadership; we will be then admitting that even Infosys lacked in these respects. What is your view?

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Sangom had written about Vanaprastha.

This is an Ashrama recommended for older people who have already done their duties towards their children.

Vanaprastha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Swami Shankarananda of Chinmaya Mission in his book "How to Live in Old Age" has written about this exhaustively. He has divided Vanaprastha into two categories.

1. Grihi Vanaprasthi - Those who continue to stay with their sons, but are spiritually inclined.

2. Ashrama Vanaprasthi - Those who move to an Ashrama.

According to him once the sons leave the house you become a Vanaprasthi.

This idea seem to have gained some popularity. The first optional retirement complex in Coimbatore was called Vanaprastha. I was told there are many VIPs staying there.

The success of this experiment has led to a proliferation of these retirement complexes. Now luxurious retirement villages are coming up. We have also been discussing these in this forum

May be the future lies with these.

Though we may call it Vanaprastha or some high sounding name, actually what we are doing is following the model of old people in the U.S where you stay alone or move to a retirement community. Of course there they have some support from the government. This might happen in India also.

Something I have always been wondering is when one moved to the forest as per the old Vanaprastha norms, who performed their Antyeshti. Since they had cut off all their connection with their sons and lived in a forest, the sons could not have performed the Antyeshti. So all the Vanaprastha ashrama people went to hell? I am yet to get any clarification on this.

So are the options of staying alone or moving to retirement complexes the model which will become the standard?

Only time can tell.

I am concluding this thread here. Think about what I have written here.

Thank You.