the modern (tamil) brahmins?

[kunjuppu]

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i have copied new member ravin's introductory posting here, because i found it so fascinating (his own story) plus it possibly deserves a thread of its own..

i have sent ravin a message re the same.. enjoy it folks and give us your 93.1 cents worth

My dear brothers and sisters,
there are four things that I am extremely proud of :
1. My birth as a Brahmin (note although my mother is a Tamil Brahmin, I do not stress upon it. Should someone be interested to know why, you are most welcome to ask me. I only stressed upon my birth a Brahmin)
2. My wonderful parents
3. My extraordinary son
4. The talents that the Bhagavaan has blessed me with.

I look forward to some interesting communications.

Hari Om, Jai Parabrahma

R

PS: Praveen, my greetings and my kudos to you

I registered myself as a member quite a while ago, but there was something or the other (all lame excuses), that I never posted a message until now. Today's message from Praveen wishing members seasons greetings actually got me to sit down and post this message.
I am an Indian citizen and I run two companies in Germany since the last 10 years. There are many more facts that I shall share with you my brothers and sisters when I hear from at least one of you

...continued

Brahmins have a priestly background which also means that they are basically teachers. Teachers are not only those that teach in schools or colleges but anyone who imparts any kind of knowledge to others. In Brahmin households, violence is never taught nor supported. The focus is more on education, good behaviour, respect for others, kindness, compassion, etc. I have always practiced this ever since I was a kid. There were many 'tough' boys in my class that were not interested in studies but only in having a lot of fun at the cost of others. But I glamourized being intelligent and studious by being fashionable, well dressed, well behaved and being a very good student at the same time. Believe me, it had its own effects and soon these 'Tough or rowdy' boys did very well in their studies. What I mean to say is that we have to set an example to the others by being outstanding citizens of whichever land we live in. Our rich traditions and culture should not be pushed aside in the name of modernization or westernization. I live in Europe for so many years and I don't work for any foreigners but I own two companies. The so called Modernization has led to the creeping in of newer versions of the East India Company into India in the form of MNCs. We need to look into ourselves and try to find out who we are. I am not talking about any racial superiority, but our attitude of non violence that has been passed down to us over innumerous generations.

Will get back to work now and I hope to hear from someone of you...

 

[Nara]

i have sent ravin a message re the same.. enjoy it folks and give us your 93.1 cents worth

Sorry, mine is only with 2 cents!

From Ravin:

[..]

Brahmins have a priestly background which also means that they are basically teachers.

[..]

In Brahmin households, violence is never taught nor supported. The focus is more on education, good behaviour, respect for others, kindness, compassion, etc.

Unfortunately, this idealized version of Brahmins and Brahmin households serves only to perpetuate delusions of superiority among Brahmins. Brahmins being mainly priests or teachers is just a myth. In fact most Brahmins in the last century or more have not been priests or teachers, they have been government servants, clerks, railway employees, etc. On the flip side, there are many priests and teachers from NB communities. Priests of all Mariamman, Murugan and Iyyanar temples are almost all NBs. Further, many great literary scholars and teachers are NBs.

Kindness, compassion, wisdom, etc. characterize a good person irrespective of caste group. In Tamil one would call such a person சான்றோன் (sAnROn), not a Brahmin. Nonviolence and respect to others are taught by all housholds, B's as well as NB's.

..... The so called Modernization has led to the creeping in of newer versions of the East India Company into India in the form of MNCs. We need to look into ourselves and try to find out who we are. I am not talking about any racial superiority, but our attitude of non violence that has been passed down to us over innumerous generations.

Indeed, the MNCs are the new colonizers. I recently saw a documentary on call center operations in Bombay and was horrified. Some of these managers castigate their employees that unless they meet the sales targets they are worth less than animals .

However, I think the "non-violent" tradition is just a myth. Gandhi's non-violence was influence by the teachings of Jesus (I don't mean Christians) and Theroue on the one hand, and his Jain influence of Gujarat. It is very likely that Brahmins were responsible for converting Tamilnadu from Buddism to Hinduism and they achieved this through the support of the rulers of Tamilnadu, and persuading them to put those who oppose to death. Thousands of Buddist monks were put to death in chekku. The story of Thirumangai Azhvar gives a glimpse of what happened to Buddha viharas and followers of Buddhism.

Of course, we all need to pursue non-violence and value kindness, compassion, irrespective of B or NB. These should characterize modern people, not just modern Brahmins.



Cheers!

 

[RVR]

I live in Europe for so many years and I don't work for any foreigners but I own two companies.

Very good. What we require is entrepreneurship, that also in a foreign land, is wonderful to hear. Instead of searching for jobs, you must be giving jobs for others, which is a great thing.

All the best

 

[kunjuppu]

ravin,

maybe, while guarding your privacy, you can tell us your story of how to start/run a business in germany.

this is the first time i am hearing of any indian running a business in germany.

also, as we progress, pointers re entrepreneurship would be most welcome.

looking forward.... thanks

 

[happyhindu]

i second shri kunjuppu ji's post.

it wud be very interesting to hear how an indian turned an entrepreneur in germany.

the only business i know is the import and distribution of indian vegetables, condiments, etc by indians tehre..and they ensured that drumsticks are available even in some german villages. now that trade, am told, is dominated by srilankans. so i suppose indians moved on to other things (??) wud be interesting to know if there are indians owning IT companies in germany...

 

[tbs]

Brahimins main duties were learning and teaching.according to Manu
smrithi....ADYANAM ADYAAPANAM CA BRAHMANANAN KRTHYVYAM...
may be vedic teaching/ modern teaching ...we are good teachers
in the world....i heard that many faculty members in IITs/IIMs
are from brahmins.....we are good learners too...many scientists
in NASA belong to brahmins....its basically genetical...my its
my 2 cents opinion....

regards
tbs

 

[RVR]

Our rich traditions and culture should not be pushed aside in the name of modernization or westernization.

Way back in 1984, I stayed with a German family for few days. I told the lady that I am a strict vegetarian, immediately after landing. Next day morning she served fish & eggs along with break fast. I told her I don't eat both. She was thrilled.

Then leisurely she asked me about India and our culture . I told about our community, our practices and customs. She almost started treating me like a messenger of God. My repeated attempt to convince her that I am a normal human being went into deaf ears.
I gave her some inputs on meditation which she strictly started following.

Let us not think that we are either superior nor inferior to anybody. Let us follow our culture, customs and traditions. Offcourse we may have to adopt to changes but let us not give up basic principles.

All the best

 

[anandb]

Dear Naraji

please see my opinion below.

Unfortunately, this idealized version of Brahmins and Brahmin households serves only to perpetuate delusions of superiority among Brahmins. Brahmins being mainly priests or teachers is just a myth. In fact most Brahmins in the last century or more have not been priests or teachers, they have been government servants, clerks, railway employees, etc. On the flip side, there are many priests and teachers from NB communities. Priests of all Mariamman, Murugan and Iyyanar temples are almost all NBs. Further, many great literary scholars and teachers are NBs.

I find a problem with this logic, that if we hold a ideal version we will suffer from a superiority complex. From the tone of Mr. Ravin's mail, I could not find any signs of superiority complex. He talks about respect, good behavior, kindness and compassion - traits which hardly have any sign of a superior complex. I think what he is trying to say is the brahmins of a bygone era possessed these qualities which we should try and regain back. I don't think this is a statement on non-brahmins.

However, I think the "non-violent" tradition is just a myth. Gandhi's non-violence was influence by the teachings of Jesus (I don't mean Christians) and Theroue on the one hand, and his Jain influence of Gujarat. It is very likely that Brahmins were responsible for converting Tamilnadu from Buddism to Hinduism and they achieved this through the support of the rulers of Tamilnadu, and persuading them to put those who oppose to death. Thousands of Buddist monks were put to death in chekku. The story of Thirumangai Azhvar gives a glimpse of what happened to Buddha viharas and followers of Buddhism.

Firstly, I don't think Gandhi was influenced by Jesus or Christianity. Let me give below M.K's quotes on Hinduism.

"Hinduism has made marvelous discoveries in things of religion, of the spirit, of the soul. We have no eye for these great and fine discoveries. We are dazzled by the material progress that Western science has made. Ancient India has survived because Hinduism was not developed along material but spiritual lines."

"Hinduism is a relentless pursuit of Truth. "Truth is God" and if today it has become moribund, inactive, irresponsive to growth, it is because we are fatigued; and as soon as the fatigue is over, Hinduism will burst upon the world with a brilliance perhaps unknown before.” (Source: Young India, 24.11.1924 (Pg. 390-396)

"The tendency of Indian civilization is to elevate the moral being, that of the western civilization is to propagate immorality. The latter is godless, the former is based on a belief in God." (Source: Popular Hinduism - The Religion of all Masses - By LSS O'Malley Pg 46)

"I believe that the civilization India has evolved is not to be beaten in the world. Nothing can equal the seeds sown by our ancestry. Rome went; Greece shared the same fate; the might of the Pharaohs was broken; Japan has become westernized; of China nothing can be said; but India is still, somehow or other, sound at the foundation."
(source: Hindu Swaraj or Indian Home Rule Chapter xiii)

"Hinduism is a living organism liable to growth and decay subject to the laws of Nature. One and indivisible at the root, it has grown into a vast tree with innumerable branches. The changes in the season affect it. It has its autumn and its summer, its winter and its spring. It is, and is not, based on scriptures. It does not derive its authority from one book. "Non violence has found the highest expression and application in Hinduism.
(source: Hindu Dharma - By M. K. Gandhi. Chapter on Why I am a Hindu p.1-8).

"The Geeta is the universal mother. I find a solace in the Bhagavadgeeta that I miss even in the Sermon on the Mount. When disappointment stares me in the face and all alone I see not one ray of light, I go back to the Bhagavad Gita. I find a verse here and a verse there , and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming tragedies - and my life has been full of external tragedies - and if they have left no visible or indelible scar on me, I owe it all to the teaching of Bhagavadgeeta."
About the Bhagawad-Gita, Gandhi, says: “Today the Gita is not only my Bible or my Koran, it is more than that—it is my mother... When I am in difficulty or distress I seek refuge in her bosom.”
(source: Harijan 24-8-1934).

There could be exceptions to the rule but I don't think brahmins or even other Hindus were responsible for mass extinctions of Buddhists. If that was the nature of Hindus we would have exterminated all Muslims after the Mughal rule and all Christians after the British. Our Scriptures and the people who followed them were fundamentally strong that it could withstand the onslaughts from other faiths. And winning was based on debate rather than trying to bump off the opponent (as exemplified by the debate between Shankara and Mandana).

 

[ravin]

Thanks Anandb for your note. After reading Nara's message, I was perplexed and was wondering what to write! I could not quite understand what that person wanted to say. I am aiming at finding solutions and not rummaging through the past. FYI, I am 45 years old, travelled through 35 countries, I used to be a movie actor in India, I read, write and speak 18 languages, I spent 14 years studying the Gita, the Vedas, The Bible, The Koran, The Zend Avesta etc. And yet I don't claim to have learnt even a miniscule part of all that. 'Quoting Socrates : I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing'. Has Nara ever heard of 'Kudumba Pagai' among Brahmin families where one picks up an 'Aruvaal' to chop the other's head??? As you rightly said Anandb, all I am trying to say is to change our ways a bit and modernize being a brahmin and also glamourize it. I did it and travelling around the world apart from my short stint in the movies helped me further in doing so. On the other side of the story, I know many young brahmins who take to eating meat just to 'impress' others! Impress, what impress ? Here in Germany, my family and I impress everyone by preparing excellent and creative vegetarian dishes! Everyone around me is impressed! I fully agree with what Vekatramani has said. It is so, everything depends on packaging. How we package our culture and traditions to others in a very pleasing and attractive way is the key. Why pseudo-modernization/westernization is the question. When people of a particular community proudly say that they do not eat pork meat, and they are respected for their feelings, why should we force us to change to something that we are not? Sorry for digressing a bit...coming back to the point, The 'typical brahmin' (pap***) who has no idea of fashion but is always engrossed only in his studies, should come out of this shell created by decades of being bullied by other powerful communities. He needs to respect himself and take pride in his traditions. A complete decade as an NRI has managed to anglicize me at all. FYI, I was once invited by the Queen of the UK. My Grand father was one of the thousands of unsung Heros that died fighting for our Freedom - he was with the INA. My late father worked his whole life for the Indian Air Force. Thus is my background and I have clarity in what I want, say and do. Somebody please tell me, do you think I am hurting anybody's feelings? I am only trying to offer my suggestions from whatever experiences that I have had in this wide open world that I have seen through 45 summers... Mr. Narayanamoorthy of Infosys once said, Indians (not Brahmins) spend their whole life gloating over their 'rich' past but glean nothing from it... Pls excuse me for my typing errors if any...I need to rush for my next meeting...

 

[Nara]

Dear Shri Anand:

Greetings!

please see my opinion below.
From the tone of Mr. Ravin's mail, I could not find any signs of superiority complex.

I agree! But my point was not that. I was commenting on this sentence:

In Brahmin households, violence is never taught nor supported. The focus is more on education, good behaviour, respect for others, kindness, compassion, etc.​

I have no doubt the above was true in Mr. Ravin's household. But such a claim cannot be made for all or even most Brahmin households. I am not saying there was active promotion of violence. However, over idealization, such as the above, perpetuates supremacist feelings among Brahmins. Please see the posting of Shri tbs.

Firstly, I don't think Gandhi was influenced by Jesus or Christianity. Let me give below M.K's quotes on Hinduism.

MK? For a moment I thought you were referring to doctor kalaigner .

"Hinduism has made marvelous discoveries in things of religion, of the spirit, of the soul.

Of course, Mahathma Gandhi was a confirmed Hindu, I did not say he was not.

There could be exceptions to the rule but I don't think brahmins or even other Hindus were responsible for mass extinctions of Buddhists.

Hindus were indeed responsible for the extinction of Buddhists in TN. The question is whether violence was involved or not.

The method Brahmins used, by design or not by design, was probably something like the way Britishers gained power in India as a whole. Of course, Brahmins were part of the indigenous people themselves, unlike the Britishers. During the Kalabhras reign, Brahmins probably simply bade their time. After the overthrow of Kalabhras, the Brahmin's power started to rise along with the rising power of Hindu kings. During this time, the Buddists were given a choice, convert to Hinduism or else be put to death. Since there is not a whole lot of written material, strong evidence for this scenario is scant, but not absent. The life story of Thirumangai Azvar says he went into a Buddha vihara and killed all the Buddhists, stole the treasure, and built the surrounding wall of Srirangam temple. He and his followers are supposed to have killed a big gang of thieves (buddists perhaps) by drowning them in Kollidam, thus the name "kol idam"

Cheers!

 

[anandb]

Naraji,

My reading of Thirumangai Azhwar goes like this. He did indulge in robbing the rich but that was because he was feeding 1000 Vasihnavas every day and his treasury became bankrupt as a result of it. He did not want to stop the feeding of the poor Vaishnavas. I don't know how the Buddhists came into this picture. Also, to me, a devotee who had composed pasurams on Narayana and a great baktha to hardly fits into a profile of a cold blooded Buddhist killer.

 

[ravin]

Thirumagai alwar was not a brahmin and this forum is called tamilbrahmins.........

 

[RVR]

We respect all the Azhwars, Nayanmars and other saints.

 

[sapthajihva]

Thirumagai alwar was not a brahmin and this forum is called tamilbrahmins.........

?? All azhwars were not brahmins!

 

[ravin]

Hi Kunjuppu? As soon as I posted it, I saw a message saying that it would be posted only after it had been approved by the moderator... it's been at least 7 hours now and it it is 21.45 CET now... well.... let me wait until tomorrow...and then I shall decide to stay or to leave... I find the statements of Nara or whatever very intriguing. I am just not able to understand what he or she wants to say...

 

[ravin]

OF COURSE HE - Thirumagai alwar - WAS NOT A BRAHMIN MY DEAR SAPTAJHIVA.
HE WAS SOME TRIBAL SUFFERING FROM MEGALOMANIA

 

[Nara]

Thirumangai mannan

..... a devotee who had composed pasurams on Narayana and a great baktha to hardly fits into a profile of a cold blooded Buddhist killer.

Hello Shri Anand:

Greetings!

IMHO, Thirumangai Azvar's pasurams are the best. In the very first pasuram of his, he packs in what Sri Vaishnavas call நைச்யாநுஸந்தானம். This Azhvar, aka நாலுகவிப் பெருமாள், was supposed to have had an accidental meetings with Sambandhar.

As the adage goes, often times truth is stranger than fiction. But in this case, it is difficult to separate truth from fiction. There is a somewhat old text, written probably about 850 years ago, called ஆறாயிரப்ப்படி குரு பரம்பரை வைபவம் written by பின்பழகிய பெருமாள் ஜீயர். Both incidences I cited are from this and other texts.

This text also says that Bhagavat Ramanuja himself, the great Bhagavat Ramanuja the one I admire most among all the acharyas, put the Buddists he defeated in debates, into கற்காணி (grinder).

How much of it is to be taken literally or figuratively, I leave it up to you. But, it is a fact that the Brahmins were at the forefront of eliminating Buddhism from India, and, I am sorry to say, violence was part of it.

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

ravin, anandb,

if you look deeply into our culture, i think, our hindu ancestors too had blood in their hands.

i do know that when the pandyan king converted from jainism to saivism, the ensuing slaughter of jain monks in madurai, apparently made the vaigai run red.

ilango adigal was supposed to be a jain. so too were the erudites of the first sangam age, of which no literature has survived.

if you look around tamil nadu, you may find the ruins of the extensive spread of jainism.

every now and then, new discoveries are made - either the juxtaposing of hindu deities over mahavira or plain conversion of the temples to saivite tradition.

this is history. i do not feel one way or the other. though the jains among us might have some pangs.

it is very humbling to know that much as we revile the conquest of islam and the west over india, that we too, were once upon a time, conquerors over what existed before.

history.

those who learn from it, can prevent it happening again. though who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.

for whatever it may be worth, i consider the above to be true.

ps.. we are not the only community to mourn the loss of greatness. i am told, that the muslims, in their evening prayers, still lament over the loss of moorish spain back to the christians... why was that permitted to happen?

incidentally, the citadel of islamic culture is still considered moorish spain. not the arabs. not egypt. not iran. not mughals. not anyone else.

i think, what the ultimate bottom line was quoted best by shelley in ozymandias

...



I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
`My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away".

....

i read somewhere, that as ghazni lay dying, he commanded that all the loot from hindustan was to be brought before him so that he could see it one last time. i believe, he wept copious tears.

there is a moral somewhere in the ghazni story.. i have been searching it for a very long time....

but still haven't found what i am looking for........... so the song goes

thank you.

 

[Nara]

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. ....
And on the pedestal these words appear:
`My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away".

Thank you Kunjuppu, a very moving verse, a lot to learn from everywhere. Our own Mahakavi was very fond of Shelly.

Cheers!

 

[sapthajihva]

OF COURSE HE - Thirumagai alwar - WAS NOT A BRAHMIN MY DEAR SAPTAJHIVA.
HE WAS SOME TRIBAL SUFFERING FROM MEGALOMANIA

My intent in the earlier post is to mean that not all azhwars were brahmins. It is a statement and not a query. Perhaps, my wordings were ambiguous to make it seem like a question.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

the modern (tamil)brahmins

In msg 15, by ravin, he appears to be helpless and disappointed. Dear ravin, pls be cool. Don't get disheartened.When it comes to open discussion, boquets and brickbats will come .Take them in natural coure.By keeping our cool and balance only we can convince even opponents to accept our viewpoints. Let us be amenable to truth and reason. Do not hesitate to stay continued. Stonelike determination only will help us in our goal.

We trust you can contribute more positively. Our community needs sincere and dedicated members. There may be many who can contribut in different ways. It should be our concerted efforts to bring them all under a forum. The present one is will suited for that.

 

[anandb]

Dear Kunjuppu ji,

if you look deeply into our culture, i think, our hindu ancestors too had blood in their hands.

i do know that when the pandyan king converted from jainism to saivism, the ensuing slaughter of jain monks in madurai, apparently made the vaigai run red.

Exceptions to the rule are always there. While even today there are even Christians and Muslims who say the Bible and Koran have teachings which encourage violence against non-believers there is no such thing in the Hindu scriptures. Now if a few fanatics like the pandyan king acts against the philosophy of Hinduism, that is not the fault with the religion.

ilango adigal was supposed to be a jain. so too were the erudites of the first sangam age, of which no literature has survived.

Let me put it this way. Apart from the rich literature of the Sangam period which was known as the Golden Age of Tamil literature, the ஐம்பெரும் காப்பியங்கள் in Tamil are சிலப்பதிகாரம் (Jain), மணிமேகலை (Buddhist), சீவக சிந்தாமணி (Jain), வளையாபதி (Jain) and குண்டலகேசி (Buddhist). Now if Hindus did want to obliterate these literature, they could have done so but the fact translations are available and these non-Hindu works are categorized as the five great Tamil epics is proof that there was great religious tolerance.

if you look around tamil nadu, you may find the ruins of the extensive spread of jainism.

What is the proof that these were destroyed by the Hindus.

every now and then, new discoveries are made - either the juxtaposing of hindu deities over mahavira or plain conversion of the temples to saivite tradition.

The above is not a proof that violence was perpetrated on other sects. In Far East, you still find idols of Buddha in a anantasayanam poseas well as the left hand indicating surrender at his feet and the right hand in a blessing mode. (original Hindu symbolism). My interpretation is these could have been willingly adopted by those religions.

this is history. i do not feel one way or the other. though the jains among us might have some pangs.

it is very humbling to know that much as we revile the conquest of islam and the west over india, that we too, were once upon a time, conquerors over what existed before.

Hinduism never conquered anything before it because what existed before was Sanatana Dharma. Buddhism and Jainism are offshoots of Hinduism which came much after the Sanatana Dharma. Buddhism and Jainism could not survive in India that much because it was effectively countered by the Bhakti movement. Though Buddhism spread to the Far East, to what extent its ideals are really followed there is a big question mark. Buddha preached ahimsa but people living there eat almost everything else other than human beings.

history.

those who learn from it, can prevent it happening again. though who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.

If you go back to history, you can find Hindus, Buddhists and Jains have always coexisted even to this day. This is also true of Sikhs and Hindus and Parsis and Hindus. There are an estimated 90,000 parsis throughout the world of which 70,000 are in India. Even the Parsis agree they are a dwindling community. If after 50 years they cease to exist as a community, I hope Hindus are not blamed for that.

f

or whatever it may be worth, i consider the above to be true.

ps.. we are not the only community to mourn the loss of greatness. i am told, that the muslims, in their evening prayers, still lament over the loss of moorish spain back to the christians... why was that permitted to happen?

incidentally, the citadel of islamic culture is still considered moorish spain. not the arabs. not egypt. not iran. not mughals. not anyone else.

May be the muslims are lamenting the loss of Europe as a part of the Islamic empire when they lost Spain to the Christians. The citadel of Islam is undoubtedly Saudi Arabia. It is where the Prophet was born, where the Kaaba is, where the Haj and the Umra are undertaken and when any Muslim pray in any part of the world he is supposed to be facing the Kaaba.

Finally I end with what the Paramacharya said about the decline of Buddhism below

Nyaya and Mimamsa :They brought about the Decline of Buddhism from Hindu Dharma

Many believe that Buddhism ceased to have a large following in India because it came under the attack of Sankara. This is not true. There are very few passages in the Acarya's commentaries critical of that religion, a religion that was opposed to the Vedas. Far more forcefully has he criticised the doctrines of Sankhya and Mimamsa that respect the Vedic tradition. He demolishes their view that Isvara is not the creator of the world and that it is not he who dispenses the fruits of our actions. He also maintains that Isvara possesses the laksanas or characteristics attributed to him by the Vedas and the Brahmasutra and argues that there can be no world without Isvara and that it is wrong to maintain that our works yield fruits on their own. It is Isvara, his resolve, that has created this world, and it is he who awards us the fruits of our actions. We cannot find support in his commentaries for the view that he was responsible for the decline of Buddhism in India.

Then how did Buddhism cease to have a considerable following in out country? Somebody must have subjected it to such rigorous attack as to have brought about its decline in this land. Who performed this task? The answer is the mimamsakas and the tarkikas. Those who are adept in the Tarka-sastra(logic) are called tarkikas. The Tarka is the part of Nyaya which is one of the fourteen branches of Vedic learning and which comes next to Mimamsa. People proficient in Nyaya are naiyayikas; those well versed in grammar are "vaiyakaranis"; and those proficient in the Puranas are "pauranikas".

Udayanacarya, the tarkika, and Kumarilabhatta, the mimamsaka, opposed Buddhism for different reasons. The former severely criticised that religion for its denial of Isvara. To mimamsakas, as I have said earlier, Vedic rituals are of the utmost importance. Even though they don't believe that it is Isvara who awards us the fruit of our actions, they believe that the rituals we perform yield their own fruits and that the injunctions of the dharmasastras must be carried out faithfully. They attacked Buddhism for its refusal to accept Vedic rituals. Kumarilabhatta has written profusely in criticism of that religion. He and Udayanacarya were chiefly responsible for the failure of Buddhism to acquire a large following in this country. Our Acarya came later and there was no need for him to make a special assault on that religion on his own. On the contrary, his chief task was to expose the flaws in the systems upheld by the very opponents of Buddhism, Kumarilabhatta and Udayanacarya. He established that Isvara is the creator of the universe and that it is he who awards the fruits of our actions.

am mentioning this fact so as to disabuse you of the wrong notions you must have formed with regard to Sankara's role in the decline of Buddhism. There is a special chapter in one of Kumarilabhatta's works called "Tarkapadam" in which he has made an extensive refutation of Buddhism. So too has Udayanacarya in his Bauddhadhikaram. These two
acaryas were mainly responsible for the decline of Buddhism in our land and not Sankara Bhagavatpada. What we are taught on the subject in our textbooks of history is not true.

 

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to Sri Nara, Kollidam means excuss water flow thro the river not Killing place.s.r.k.

 

[RVR]

கொள் + இடம் = கொள்ளிடம் Kollidam is built as a natural drainage system for collecting excess water in the Chola Nadu.

It is not கொல்லிடம்

essarkey is correct

All the best

 

[vikrama]

At the time of Sambandar, Jainism had deteriorated and the so called Jains did not follow the lofty principles preached by Mahavira but were a lazy lot taking sheleter under religion. They roamed about naked, never bathed, not even cleaned their teeth, ate very heavily, caught fish clandestinely, took intoxicating substances and were always in an inebriated condition. It is these practices of the Jains that Sambandar attacked and he never criticized their principles except their atheism. Real Jainism had already died in Tamilnadu and its namesake was given a death-blow by Sambandar.
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