The Mahishasura debate: alternative traditions

[renuka]

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Devas were not always good. Sometimes they were soundly beaten by the Asuras.

And of course the king of the Devas, Indra was a confirmed womanizer.

Agreed..these Devas were nothing really great.

Indra is the King of Fornication.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

One becomes whole when one falls?

If one was Purnam to start with..why does one even need to fall to start with?

A Purnam should be contended with self and not fall for anything or anyone.

A Purnam is a Patita Pavana!LOL

Dear Renuka,

Your thinking is correct. But can anybody be purnam except God? and even god will possess attributes depending on time, space and intent of his avatar.

 

[biswa]

I think we should just honestly recognize the issue as classic Aryan vs. non Aryan battles.

The only thing to remember is that there are no pure Aryans or non Aryans any more. Which is all for the better, I think.

 

[biswa]

Dear Renuka,

Your thinking is correct. But can anybody be purnam except God? and even god will possess attributes depending on time, space and intent of his avatar.

Do God's avatars only show up in India? Or do they also arrive in all the other continents?

 

[renuka]

Do God's avatars only show up in India? Or do they also arrive in all the other continents?

Obama is in the USA.

 

[tbs]

They are called wives!LOL

hi

WIFE MEANS.....WORRIES INVITED FOR EVER...LOL

 

[biswa]

Obama is in the USA.

Hmm, then Hillary may be an avatar of Mahishashuramardini.

 

[renuka]

Hmm, then Hillary may be an avatar of Mahishashuramardini.

I somehow do not like Hillary Clinton.

I would not want her to be President.

 

[sravna]

I somehow do not like Hillary Clinton.

I would not want her to be President.

I think you would want Trump to win. Ancient India and Trump's America would be poles apart. But I think it should be fine. It is just another way of living life. Only thing is one should not mess with others unless they can be absolutely sure they can get away with that.

 

[renuka]

I think you would want Trump to win. Ancient India and Trump's America would be poles apart. But I think it should be fine. It is just another way of living life. Only thing is one should not mess with others unless they can be absolutely sure they can get away with that.

Not fond of Trump either.

I dont think he has any political experience.

He is like an Indian politician who is playing the "caste" games!

He is just stirring up white support forgetting the fact that whites belong to Europe and not the Americas!

 

[CHANDRU1849]

I think we should just honestly recognize the issue as classic Aryan vs. non Aryan battles.

The only thing to remember is that there are no pure Aryans or non Aryans any more. Which is all for the better, I think.

Actually there are no Aryans and Dravidians. It was created by vested interests to divide Hindus.

 

[sangom]

Actually there are no Aryans and Dravidians. It was created by vested interests to divide Hindus.

Actually, the rigvedic "Hindus" if we may so call, consisted of only the Aryans; the fourth category "Sudra" was a niche for all the non-Aryans and Aryan-non Aryan mixtures. This has been continued due to some of our puranas and other scriptures, although there may still be small islands of genetically "pure" Aryans and non-Aryans (The tribes of Andamans are stated to be pure "southies, whereas some of the Kashmiri population groups are "pure" northies.)

 

[vgane]

Actually, the rigvedic "Hindus" if we may so call, consisted of only the Aryans; the fourth category "Sudra" was a niche for all the non-Aryans and Aryan-non Aryan mixtures. This has been continued due to some of our puranas and other scriptures, although there may still be small islands of genetically "pure" Aryans and non-Aryans (The tribes of Andamans are stated to be pure "southies, whereas some of the Kashmiri population groups are "pure" northies.)

Sangomji,

I do not think we have clear answers...Rig vedic Hindus were not pure Aryans..It had black colored people amongst them..Some of the puranic rishis were not fair but black in color..I heard that Kerala's first CPM CM EMS who is a Brahmin by Birth was black in color..I have seen many Brahmins as black as coal..Do not create Aryan /Non aryan divisions..May be Aryan meant noble birth..Not a race connection at all...

 

[biswa]

Sangomji,

I do not think we have clear answers...Rig vedic Hindus were not pure Aryans..It had black colored people amongst them..Some of the puranic rishis were not fair but black in color..I heard that Kerala's first CPM CM EMS who is a Brahmin by Birth was black in color..I have seen many Brahmins as black as coal..Do not create Aryan /Non aryan divisions..May be Aryan meant noble birth..Not a race connection at all...

But I don't think Sangomji made the claim that Brahmin automatically meant Aryan. As there is no pure Aryan any more, the "native" Austro/Asiatic / Dravidian / Andaman genes may make an appearance in any caste.

As the extent of this mixture is more in the South, the Southern Brahmins are typically darker than NI Brahmins. Simple? As usual there are exceptions to every rule.

The only pure Aryans are probably the present day Afghans / Iranians.

 

[renuka]

As the extent of this mixture is more in the South, the Southern Brahmins are typically darker than NI Brahmins. Simple? As usual there are exceptions to every rule.

.

Hair texture and type too is an indicator for Indo-European/ Austro-Asiatic / Dravidian / Andaman genes..in fact many South Indian Brahmin women have curly and at times wiry hair.

The Indo-European genes usually has straight to soft wavy hair...like Southern Europeans..hair texture is silky,soft and ranging from full bodied straight hair to gentle soft waves.

 

[renuka]

I guess these admixture of genes would have happened long back in other Yugas..cos..the Dravidian/Austro-Asiatic genes come with dark skin and curly hair.

Krishna and Rama were both dark skinned and had curly hair.

Veda Vyasa was known to have dark skinned but reddish hair.

Red hair is an Indo-European feature but dark skin is a Dravidian/Austro-Asiatic feature.

So it just seemed that admixture was going on even back then.

So technically there is no real pure breed any type of caste in present day.

Its just that may be not long back people stopped procreating outside their community and maintained their current lineage.

Just like Anglo-Indians who are of a mixed race but now prefer to marry their own community to maintain their lineage.

So every caste in India is just a mixed breed with different ratio of genes who wants to maintain the "purity" of the past admixture.

 

[biswa]

Agree with Renukaji:

If human + neandarthal procreated together (now scientifically proven) what is wrong or weird about Aryan + Dravidian procreating together?

 

[sangom]

Sangomji,

I do not think we have clear answers...Rig vedic Hindus were not pure Aryans..It had black colored people amongst them..Some of the puranic rishis were not fair but black in color..I heard that Kerala's first CPM CM EMS who is a Brahmin by Birth was black in color..I have seen many Brahmins as black as coal..Do not create Aryan /Non aryan divisions..May be Aryan meant noble birth..Not a race connection at all...

Arya, the word meant only noble and that applied only to the three higher varnas, not to Sudras. If you come down to EMS or contemporary brahmins, then you have travelled more than 3000 years from the rigvedic period. The black colour of contemporary brahmins is due to admixture of black and white partners ever so many times in this historical period, plus, we cannot rule out some local ruler catching hold of some indigenous people and perforce making them Brahmins who will do their bidding without any resistance. All possibilities are there and we need not go under the illusion that all fair coloured brahmins are true, unpolluted brahmins of the purest Aryan pedigree!

 

[Jaykay767]

First off, I am surprised this debate continues even after we all know Ramayana, Troy & Dravidian war – Narasimhavarman & Pulekeshi II, are the same war, same people – south Indians !!!

Why the hell will a so called fair skinned Aryan race worship dark skinned gods ???????? when the entire fake theory is that the North Indian Aryan is greater than the Dark skinned Dravidians !!

Why will our genious saint Shankara call himself – “Dravida Shishu” – “Son of the Dravids – Son of the Druids:” ?????

So, who are the Gods in the ancient world… only the Egpytian Pharoahs declared themselves as the Gods, they were called God King.. that’s why most of our Gods = Kings = Dark Skinned.

Alexander after conquering Egpyt, forces the Egyptian Priests to declare him as a Pharoah, so the Greeks, Romans intermarried with the Egyptian Royalty & declared themselves as Gods. Due to this intermix, you have some fair skinned Gods like Indra etc.. & they are generally not worshipped widely anywhere in India. That’s why Lord Rama = Pharoah Ramses = Greek King Agamemnon. Agastya = Moses… etc..

Similarly the Persians who intermarried with the Egyptian Royalty, called themselves God Kings…

So first of all the entire concept that the fair skinned person is the God / Deva is false. Infact there is a dark skinned tribal race in South – Karnataka, & they are knowns as Devas even today..

That’s why most of the Hindu Gods are Dark Skinned or Blue Skinned. Also the reason why we pray to our Gods aka God Kings with the – “Rajaya Rajadhi Prasagnhya Saahinaye .."”

 

[Jaykay767]

It is hilarious how such fake theories are pushed & people believe at large.. LOL !!

One can agree, if a fair skinned North Indian Aryan race had come to India & worshipped “fair skinned Gods” & subdued the South Dravidians to also worship their “fair skinned Gods”

It is bizarre how a North Indian Aryan race supposedly came here & pushed the Dravidians to the south & in the process adopted the Dravidian Gods.. & worshipped them. & at the same time, imposed Caste system to subjugate the Dravidians… LOL!!

Astonishing piece of crap !!

By the way, for those who keep harping about Caste system, the exact 4 level caste system exists in Ethiopia & the Ethiopian priests are well known to share ancestory with Egyptian Priests as per ancient records ..

That’s why I said, the caste system is a Dark race origin, that’s why a lot of south Brahmins are dark skinned…

 

[Jaykay767]

Though this is a archa mavu discussion, let me clarify once again..

North India was always under persian influence for 1000s of years with pockets of tribals & in some places dravidians holding sway. Even during Alexander conquest, Persian King Darius controlled most of North of India. That’s why the western researchers called “South India” as the ”Original Hindu Country”..

That’s why the North Indian Hindu & Muslim look exactly the same, same skin color, same features, etc.. & speak the same language – Hindi = Urdu, have same traditions – Mehendi event is held by both North Hindus & muslims, Holi festival = Eid e Gulabi festival of the Mughals, etc..

Most importantly the Aryan language Sanskrit is not found anywhere in the North, it is found only in South of India, & inscribed in all parts of South East Asia – Indonesia, Thailand, Cambodia, Malaysia, Ceylon, etc.. In south Brahmins, Sanskrit is a family tradition, with grantha leafs, etc.. & by all eastern & western researchers, Sanskrit was written in Grantha script all through history & only from 19[SUP]th[/SUP] century, Hindi script was used by all.

Anyways, we are supposed to believe that despite both the people looking exactly the same, speak exactly the same language, exactly the same festivals, one is a Mughal descendant & the other Aryan from Central Asia … LOL !!!!!!!!!!!

And that the Mughal descendant is very very bad, & that Central Asian Aryan descendant is very very good..!!! LOL !!!

Astonishing… I mean, it is beyond hilarious !!

 

[Jaykay767]

Biggest joke of all is that almost everything in South India is supposed to have come from outside – Sanskrit language, all scriptures - Vedas, Ramayana, Mahabharatam, Puranas, Upanishads, vedantam, etc… Dravidian languages (remember it comes from the so called Aryan Sanskrit.. LOL even though Sanskrit itself sounds / chanted like Tamil) Rice, Idli, Sambar, Dosa, Coffee, Tea, chutney, madasambrani, everything has an external origin… LOL !!

except surprisingly for Advaita. Again don’t be surprised, if some say, that due to mughal invasion, Shankara’s family came from purest of purest breed in Kashmir (LOL) to deep south to Kerala, & carried all the scriptures from North & wrote the crown jewel – Advaita !!! & then went back to North India Varanasi & established the mutt… & by mistake he muttered – “he is a dravida shishu” or any reference to this also will be quietly erased from our books in time.. LOL !!

Apparently these people had perfected the art of criss crossing the country from Kashimir to Kanyakumari, while even today, very few do this trip on their high tech cars / SUVs..

LOL !!!