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Stop using words like Spirituality

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a-TB

Well-known member
A whatsapp post received. Seemed to make sense to me

Ten Things a Hindu Can Do While Using English Language: - written by Francois Gautier (check his Facebook page. He knows more Hinduism than many of us)

1. Please stop using the term "God fearing" - Hindus never ever fear God. For us, God is everywhere and we are also integral part of God. God is not a separate entity to fear.

2. Please do not use the meaningless term "RIP" when someone dies. Use "Om Shanti", "Sadgati" or "I wish this atma attains moksha/sadgati /uttama lokas". Hinduism neither has the concept of "soul" nor its "resting". The terms "Atma" and "Jeeva" are, in a way, antonyms for the word "soul".(to be understood in detail)

3. Please don't use the word "Mythology" for our historic epics (Itihas) Ramayana and Mahabharata. Rama and Krishna are historical heroes, not just mythical characters.

3. Please don't be apologetic about idol worship and say “Oh, that's just symbolic". All religions have idolatry in kinds or forms - cross, words, letters (calligraphy) or direction. Also let's stop using the words the words 'idols', 'statues' or 'images' when we refer to the sculptures of our Gods. Use the terms 'Moorthi' or 'Vigraha'. If words like Karma, Yoga, Guru and Mantra can be in the mainstream, why not Moorthi or Vigraha?

4. Please don't refer to Ganesh and Hanuman as "Elephant god" and "Monkey god" respectively. You can simply write Shree Ganesh and Shree Hanuman.

5. Please don't refer to our temples as prayer halls. Temples are "devalaya" (abode of god) and not "prathanalaya" (Prayer halls).

6. Please don't wish your children "black birthday" by allowing them to blow off the candles that are kept on top of the birthday cake. Don't throw spit on the divine fire (Agni Deva). Instead, ask them to pray: "Oh divine fire, lead me from darkness to light" (Thamasoma Jyotirgamaya) by lighting a lamp. These are all strong images that go deep into the psyche.

7. Please avoid using the words "spirituality" and "materialistic". For a Hindu, everything is divine. The words spirituality and materialism came to India through evangelists and Europeans who had a concept of Church vs State. Or Science vs Religion. On the contrary, in India, Sages were scientists and the foundation stone of Sanatan Dharma was Science.

9. Please don't use the word "Sin" instead of "Paapa". We only have Dharma (duty, righteousness, responsibility and privilege) and Adharma (when dharma is not followed). Dharma has nothing to do with social or religious morality. 'Papa' derives from Adharma.

10. Please don't use loose translation like meditation for "dhyana" and 'breathing exercise' for "Pranayama". It conveys wrong meanings. Use the original words.

Remember, the world respects only those who respect themselves!
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
A whatsapp post received. Seemed to make sense to me

Ten Things a Hindu Can Do While Using English Language: - written by Francois Gautier (check his Facebook page. He knows more Hinduism than many of us)

1. Please stop using the term "God fearing" - Hindus never ever fear God. For us, God is everywhere and we are also integral part of God. God is not a separate entity to fear.

2. Please do not use the meaningless term "RIP" when someone dies. Use "Om Shanti", "Sadgati" or "I wish this atma attains moksha/sadgati /uttama lokas". Hinduism neither has the concept of "soul" nor its "resting". The terms "Atma" and "Jeeva" are, in a way, antonyms for the word "soul".(to be understood in detail)

3. Please don't use the word "Mythology" for our historic epics (Itihas) Ramayana and Mahabharata. Rama and Krishna are historical heroes, not just mythical characters.

3. Please don't be apologetic about idol worship and say “Oh, that's just symbolic". All religions have idolatry in kinds or forms - cross, words, letters (calligraphy) or direction. Also let's stop using the words the words 'idols', 'statues' or 'images' when we refer to the sculptures of our Gods. Use the terms 'Moorthi' or 'Vigraha'. If words like Karma, Yoga, Guru and Mantra can be in the mainstream, why not Moorthi or Vigraha?

4. Please don't refer to Ganesh and Hanuman as "Elephant god" and "Monkey god" respectively. You can simply write Shree Ganesh and Shree Hanuman.

5. Please don't refer to our temples as prayer halls. Temples are "devalaya" (abode of god) and not "prathanalaya" (Prayer halls).

6. Please don't wish your children "black birthday" by allowing them to blow off the candles that are kept on top of the birthday cake. Don't throw spit on the divine fire (Agni Deva). Instead, ask them to pray: "Oh divine fire, lead me from darkness to light" (Thamasoma Jyotirgamaya) by lighting a lamp. These are all strong images that go deep into the psyche.

7. Please avoid using the words "spirituality" and "materialistic". For a Hindu, everything is divine. The words spirituality and materialism came to India through evangelists and Europeans who had a concept of Church vs State. Or Science vs Religion. On the contrary, in India, Sages were scientists and the foundation stone of Sanatan Dharma was Science.

9. Please don't use the word "Sin" instead of "Paapa". We only have Dharma (duty, righteousness, responsibility and privilege) and Adharma (when dharma is not followed). Dharma has nothing to do with social or religious morality. 'Papa' derives from Adharma.

10. Please don't use loose translation like meditation for "dhyana" and 'breathing exercise' for "Pranayama". It conveys wrong meanings. Use the original words.

Remember, the world respects only those who respect themselves!

Well..this was pasted before in Forum and with all the stop using RIP..Spirituality.etc..
Why is the message still in English?

Why not stop using English too?
Kya Bakwas Yaar?
 

tbs

Well-known member
Well..this was pasted before in Forum and with all the stop using RIP..Spirituality.etc..
Why is the message still in English?

Why not stop using English too?
Kya Bakwas Yaar?

hi

arey...yeh sab bakwas hai....sab apna matlab ka..lol
 

tbs

Well-known member
Well..this was pasted before in Forum and with all the stop using RIP..Spirituality.etc..
Why is the message still in English?

Why not stop using English too?
Kya Bakwas Yaar?

hi

arey...yeh sab bakwas hai....sab apna matlab ka.. if SPIRITUALITY goes....then ...many threads are waste in this forum...lol
 
OP
OP
A

a-TB

Well-known member
Well..this was pasted before in Forum and with all the stop using RIP..Spirituality.etc..
Why is the message still in English?

Why not stop using English too?
Kya Bakwas Yaar?

My bad if this was posted earlier.

Can you share with me the link to the previous post - I want to see what other comments came up.
I am unable to locate it with the search facility
 
OP
OP
A

a-TB

Well-known member
hi

arey...yeh sab bakwas hai....sab apna matlab ka.. if SPIRITUALITY goes....then ...many threads are waste in this forum...lol

Madam Renuka, Mr tbs:

Bakwas means : bakwas
is a hindi word,
meaning
:- crap, could be ranting, reason less speech or arguing , unnecessary talks. (I just Googled the term)

What is this attitude of knocking as something as crap without giving details.. This is an offensive response. One could say this any post. . Please make your case why it is crap. Also if this was discussed earlier please provide the link'

Otherwise take back your comments !

 

Raji Ram

Gold Member
Gold Member
My comments in Blue:

..........

Ten Things a Hindu Can Do While Using English Language: - written by Francois Gautier (check his Facebook page. He knows more Hinduism than many of us)

Do??? All 'advice' are Don'ts !! :)

1. Please stop using the term "God fearing" - Hindus never ever fear God. For us, God is everywhere and we are also integral part of God. God is not a separate entity to fear.

All Hindus are not brahmins and not all are well versed with Hinduism! Right from young age, we are taught the

righteous path and warned that if we don't follow them, then 'sAmi kaNNaik kuththum!' This is - God fearing!! :fear:

2. Please do not use the meaningless term "RIP" when someone dies. Use "Om Shanti", "Sadgati" or "I wish this atma attains moksha/sadgati /uttama lokas". Hinduism neither has the concept of "soul" nor its "resting". The terms "Atma" and "Jeeva" are, in a way, antonyms for the word "soul".(to be understood in detail)

What is Shanti? It is resting in peace, right? In Tamil we say, 'avaradhu AthmA shAnthi adaiyattum'!

3. Please don't use the word "Mythology" for our historic epics (Itihas) Ramayana and Mahabharata. Rama and Krishna are historical heroes, not just mythical characters.

There are many imaginary characters in those epics, other than Rama and Krishna. :)


3. Please don't be apologetic about idol worship and say “Oh, that's just symbolic". All religions have idolatry in kinds or forms - cross, words, letters (calligraphy) or direction. Also let's stop using the words the words 'idols', 'statues' or 'images' when we refer to the sculptures of our Gods. Use the terms 'Moorthi' or 'Vigraha'. If words like Karma, Yoga, Guru and Mantra can be in the mainstream, why not Moorthi or Vigraha?

VigrahA is Idol, is it not? Why not use an English word?

(idol

ˈʌɪd(ə)l/
noun
an image or representation of a god used as an object of worship.)

4. Please don't refer to Ganesh and Hanuman as "Elephant god" and "Monkey god" respectively. You can simply write Shree Ganesh and Shree Hanuman.


Agreed! Then Gajamukha, Gajavadhana, Narasimha, etc are objectionable. :nono:

5. Please don't refer to our temples as prayer halls. Temples are "devalaya" (abode of god) and not "prathanalaya" (Prayer halls).


Some temples have 'prayer halls' for silent meditation. But temple are not called prayer halls.

BTW, 'DevAlayam' is a Xtian word; and 'Alayam' is Hindu word! ;)

6. Please don't wish your children "black birthday" by allowing them to blow off the candles that are kept on top of the birthday cake. Don't throw spit on the divine fire (Agni Deva). Instead, ask them to pray: "Oh divine fire, lead me from darkness to light" (Thamasoma Jyotirgamaya) by lighting a lamp. These are all strong images that go deep into the psyche.

May be, the candles blown off shows how many years they have finished so far in their lives!! :lol:

7. Please avoid using the words "spirituality" and "materialistic". For a Hindu, everything is divine. The words spirituality and materialism came to India through evangelists and Europeans who had a concept of Church vs State. Or Science vs Religion. On the contrary, in India, Sages were scientists and the foundation stone of Sanatan Dharma was Science.

Very true! But spiritual people are not supposed to be materialistic!

They are mutually exclusive according to Indians! :)


9. Please don't use the word "Sin" instead of "Paapa". We only have Dharma (duty, righteousness, responsibility and privilege) and Adharma (when dharma is not followed). Dharma has nothing to do with social or religious morality. 'Papa' derives from Adharma.

In all the stories, bad guys do pApam ('sin' in English) and get sApam ( curse) from rishis!

10. Please don't use loose translation like meditation for "dhyana" and 'breathing exercise' for "Pranayama". It conveys wrong meanings. Use the original words.

Normal being can do only meditation; dhyanam can be done ONLY by rishis and munivars !

Remember, the world respects only those who respect themselves!

Then should we talk ONLY in our Mother tongue ? :D
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Madam Renuka, Mr tbs:

Bakwas means : bakwas
is a hindi word,
meaning
:- crap, could be ranting, reason less speech or arguing , unnecessary talks. (I just Googled the term)

What is this attitude of knocking as something as crap without giving details.. This is an offensive response. One could say this any post. . Please make your case why it is crap. Also if this was discussed earlier please provide the link'

Otherwise take back your comments !


Arey yaar..bakwas is not offensive.
بكواس is an urdu word..most probably persian in origin.

It doesnt mean all the harsh haraami translation you typed..its used mainly to mean that there is no logic.

Some use it in the harsh sense..hence you googled it and got the harsh meaning.

See like the word Kasmalam..it is used as a harsh word in Chennai Tamil but it only means Impurity and you can find it in Bhagavad Geeta too when Krishna says Kutas tva Kasmalam idam visame.

There is no offence in my words cos the post seemed sans logic to me as to deny usage of so many words yet want to use English.

Yes it was posted before ..I dont wish to look for it but my brain registers memory of having seen it before in Forum.

Last but not least..I am always careful in my choice of words..even if I want to tell someone to go hell..I write in such a way that they get convinced to book their own tickets.

Pranam.
 
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prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
lol

To be honest I am not a fan of Francois Gautier. He thinks he is super Indian because he has white skin. I am sure he thinks he is superior to our resident "spiritual".

Gautier is a supporter of Koenraad Elst. He considers Elst one of the most knowledgeable scholars on India. Gautier has stated that Elst, as an outsider, sees aspects of India which Indians cannot see themselves due to their suffering under two centuries of colonialism.

Gautier has said that Indian journalists have a negative view of India and are not proud of their culture. He has criticised the media's usage of the term "Godman" to describe Hindu gurus. Gautier has backed Sri Sri Center for Media Studies, a journalism school in Bangalore, to rectify this situation. Gautier also teaches at the institution.

Gautier is a strong supporter of Hindutva. Gautier has stated that ancient wisdom regarding questions addressing the meaning of life, afterlife, karma and dharma have been preserved in Hinduism. Gautier believes Hinduism is under threat from Islam, Christian missionaries, Marxism and westernisation Gautier has written that the Buddhist philosophy of ahimsa weakened India and made it vulnerable to the attacks of Alexander and other later invaders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/François_Gautier
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
A

a-TB

Well-known member

Thank you so much Prof Moorthy. You have to tell me how you found the thread that got posted almost a year ago. I think you and Raji Madam have been exceptional in searching the forum.

Anyway it appears there was no discussion in that thread
 
OP
OP
A

a-TB

Well-known member
Arey yaar..bakwas is not offensive.
بكواس is an urdu word..most probably persian in origin.

It doesnt mean all the harsh haraami translation you typed..its used mainly to mean that there is no logic.

Some use it in the harsh sense..hence you googled it and got the harsh meaning.

See like the word Kasmalam..it is used as a harsh word in Chennai Tamil but it only means Impurity and you can find it in Bhagavad Geeta too when Krishna says Kutas tva Kasmalam idam visame.

There is no offence in my words cos the post seemed sans logic to me as to deny usage of so many words yet want to use English.

Yes it was posted before ..I dont wish to look for it but my brain registers memory of having seen it before in Forum.

Last but not least..I am always careful in my choice of words..even if I want to tell someone to go hell..I write in such a way that they get convinced to book their own tickets.

Pranam.

First Pranam back

OK, what you have said is a lot of Bakwas LOL - Bakwas is the benign meaning you seem to refer to

When we use words that are not commonly understood in the same way there is a possibility of confusion and even bad consequences in some cases

That is exactly the point of view of Post 1

To say there is no logic is Bakwas I am afraid.

Cant say I can defend every point in Post 1 but let us take two examples

First is about the use of word idol for Murthis in temples. One Pat Robertson, an influential evangelical routinely calls in TV that Hindus are devil worshipers because in Christianity the word idol represents a demon. So we can avoid use of the term like idol.

The word Bakwas can be misunderstood - common meaning in the first hit in Google is very negative.

Similarly RIP - Rest in peace has to do with a body buried in ground - west is body focused and they talk of body giving up the ghost.
I think Hindu views are very different. So why not wish peace for all around when someone dies.

These are small adjustments and can remove long held usage and incorrect beliefs.

So I do not understand what was illogical about Post 1.

You have great memory that you remembered seeing it but there was no discussion at that time.

Anyway Pranam
 
OP
OP
A

a-TB

Well-known member
I use my custom search engine (nothing fancy- very primitive idea of using insite feature) https://cse.google.com/cse/publicurl?cx=004052035183991969720:xzgrozmymyc

and if you type in the search box
Please stop using the term "God fearing" - Hindus never ever fear God.

you get the hit. [In order to use this search engine you need to have gmail address - I do not collect any private information - I do not know what google collects]

Thank you so much. You have always provided the most appropriate and useful references
 
OP
OP
A

a-TB

Well-known member
My comments in Blue:

My comments on your comments below LOL
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ten Things a Hindu Can Do While Using English Language: - written by Francois Gautier (check his Facebook page. He knows more Hinduism than many of us)

Do??? All 'advice' are Don'ts !! :)

1. Please stop using the term "God fearing" - Hindus never ever fear God. For us, God is everywhere and we are also integral part of God. God is not a separate entity to fear.

All Hindus are not brahmins and not all are well versed with Hinduism! Right from young age, we are taught the

righteous path and warned that if we don't follow them, then 'sAmi kaNNaik kuththum!' This is - God fearing!! :fear:

Just because they have been in use for a long time does not mean it is correct. We worship Krishna in a child form and he is shown as a friend of Arjuna (representing people like you and I) . So fear of God is not native to old India I think . I can be corrected

2. Please do not use the meaningless term "RIP" when someone dies. Use "Om Shanti", "Sadgati" or "I wish this atma attains moksha/sadgati /uttama lokas". Hinduism neither has the concept of "soul" nor its "resting". The terms "Atma" and "Jeeva" are, in a way, antonyms for the word "soul".(to be understood in detail)

What is Shanti? It is resting in peace, right? In Tamil we say, 'avaradhu AthmA shAnthi adaiyattum'!

I answered this in earlier post

3. Please don't use the word "Mythology" for our historic epics (Itihas) Ramayana and Mahabharata. Rama and Krishna are historical heroes, not just mythical characters.

There are many imaginary characters in those epics, other than Rama and Krishna. :)


Myth means false. Many characters in these works may be imaginary but they are based on some historical events. So the suggestion is to use word itihasa and not call that myth so people have right understanding when we communicate. Calling it a myth could offend believers of Rama and Krishna

3. Please don't be apologetic about idol worship and say “Oh, that's just symbolic". All religions have idolatry in kinds or forms - cross, words, letters (calligraphy) or direction. Also let's stop using the words the words 'idols', 'statues' or 'images' when we refer to the sculptures of our Gods. Use the terms 'Moorthi' or 'Vigraha'. If words like Karma, Yoga, Guru and Mantra can be in the mainstream, why not Moorthi or Vigraha?

VigrahA is Idol, is it not? Why not use an English word?

(idol

ˈʌɪd(ə)l/
noun
an image or representation of a god used as an object of worship.)

Already responded to this earlier

4. Please don't refer to Ganesh and Hanuman as "Elephant god" and "Monkey god" respectively. You can simply write Shree Ganesh and Shree Hanuman.


Agreed! Then Gajamukha, Gajavadhana, Narasimha, etc are objectionable. :nono:

5. Please don't refer to our temples as prayer halls. Temples are "devalaya" (abode of god) and not "prathanalaya" (Prayer halls).


Some temples have 'prayer halls' for silent meditation. But temple are not called prayer halls.

BTW, 'DevAlayam' is a Xtian word; and 'Alayam' is Hindu word! ;)

The point is that temple is more than a prayer hall. That is the point made in post 1

6. Please don't wish your children "black birthday" by allowing them to blow off the candles that are kept on top of the birthday cake. Don't throw spit on the divine fire (Agni Deva). Instead, ask them to pray: "Oh divine fire, lead me from darkness to light" (Thamasoma Jyotirgamaya) by lighting a lamp. These are all strong images that go deep into the psyche.

May be, the candles blown off shows how many years they have finished so far in their lives!! :lol:

Like Mr Sravana said in his post, let us not ape the west - that is the point made here.
7. Please avoid using the words "spirituality" and "materialistic". For a Hindu, everything is divine. The words spirituality and materialism came to India through evangelists and Europeans who had a concept of Church vs State. Or Science vs Religion. On the contrary, in India, Sages were scientists and the foundation stone of Sanatan Dharma was Science.

Very true! But spiritual people are not supposed to be materialistic!

They are mutually exclusive according to Indians! :)


In Hindusim I thought we dont look down upon materialism and desires. After all we produced Kama sutra and all those sculptures in Kajarahu? I have not been there but I have seen the pictures'. Let us try to Hindusim for what it teaches rather than import ideas from other religions that may be wrond. That is the point

9. Please don't use the word "Sin" instead of "Paapa". We only have Dharma (duty, righteousness, responsibility and privilege) and Adharma (when dharma is not followed). Dharma has nothing to do with social or religious morality. 'Papa' derives from Adharma.

In all the stories, bad guys do pApam ('sin' in English) and get sApam ( curse) from rishis!

Sin has a religious meaning in Christianity - like Original sin. Bad guys means doing bad dharma according to post 1 ..Why confuse Papa with Original sin

10. Please don't use loose translation like meditation for "dhyana" and 'breathing exercise' for "Pranayama". It conveys wrong meanings. Use the original words.

Normal being can do only meditation; dhyanam can be done ONLY by rishis and munivars !

Why so??? I asked someone and they said there is a whole chapter on Dhyana in Gita text. It is there only for human beings to practice

Remember, the world respects only those who respect themselves!

Then should we talk ONLY in our Mother tongue ? :D

Nope, it only means usage of correct words to communicate self respect.


 
OP
OP
A

a-TB

Well-known member
lol

To be honest I am not a fan of Francois Gautier. He thinks he is super Indian because he has white skin. I am sure he thinks he is superior to our resident "spiritual".







https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/François_Gautier

Dear Mr Prasad:

Thanks for your comments.

Who is the resident "spiritual"?

We can focus our analysis on the message than on our varying opinion of the author. Until I saw this Whatsapp post I did not know the name of this author. He seems to have good intentions in making these suggestions
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Mr Prasad:

Thanks for your comments.

Who is the resident "spiritual"?

We can focus our analysis on the message than on our varying opinion of the author. Until I saw this Whatsapp post I did not know the name of this author. He seems to have good intentions in making these suggestions


I have read a lot of his writing. I am not a fan of Hindutva Gang.
Some of the leaders he vilifies, I admire.
Like Gandhi, Nehru etc.
Who is he to tell the Hindus how to live their life. Why must we always fight with Muslims? They are as much Indian as Hindus, and the majority of them are not going anywhere.
 
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