I think this statement of Stephen shows the success has gone into his head. It is clear he is surrounded by a bunch of sycophants who have given stephen some feeling of an all knowing authority. I myself like science and genuinely doubt claims on spirituality. But this is an over confident statement.“Science predicts that many different kinds of universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing,” he said. “It is a matter of chance which we are in.”
I think this statement of Stephen shows the success has gone into his head. It is clear he is surrounded by a bunch of sycophants who have given stephen some feeling of an all knowing authority. I myself like science and genuinely doubt claims on spirituality. But this is an over confident statement.
Dear Shri Subbudu,
I do not think it is correct to jump to the above conclusion unless you have more evidence about Hawkings' mindset, to be presented.
Is it necessary to postulate a "creator" because there is something perceptible? Even the sāṃkhyadarśana initially had no such concept of a "creator", I understand, and an īśvara was posited only at a later stage on to the original Kapila's sāṃkhyadarśana. Similarly, if we take the much discussed advaita, where is the "creator" in it? Brahman, the only reality, together with vikṣepa and āvaraṇa, two characteristics (here again advaitins are on slippery ground if we ask the question about the locus of these two items !) produce the illusion of jagat. Thus instead of one God Almighty "creating" everything in 6 days, taking rest on the 7th., etc., there is nothing created except an illusion and that too, by the combined agency of three entities. We may take these as demonstrative of successive, improved stages of human reasoning capability, and nothing more. The scientific thinking today may allow an eternal, beginningless multiverse idea as per theory. If any reader is conversant kindly elucidate for our benefit. Once theoretically we can think of a beginningless but eternal universe, it will not require a "creator" of the Biblical style.
But science has many phenomena for which one cannot find any single agency as the cause. In my very limited knowledge radioactivity, radioactive decay, half-life, bioluminiscence and even the most simple "fire" phenomenon cannot be attributed to any creator / source. They are there, we know many things about them, that is all we can say.
Note : My conclusions may be wrong. Oppoosing ideas are welcome.
Dear Shri Subbudu,
Is it necessary to postulate a "creator" because there is something perceptible?
Can the proponents of "apaurusheya" of vedas also not use the same hypothesis to establish unauthoredness of vedas?
The apauruṣeyatva vāda in relation to the vedas, means that the vedas were handed down in an esoteric way, not in any of the usual methods known to and capable of being done by ordinary mortals. It does not claim that the vedas were unauthored, IMHO.
To make matters a bit easier to grasp, let us consider what this apauruṣeyatva vāda will look like, if it is applied to, say, a mud pot (this is one of the favourite objects of our ancient philosophers). The mudpot will not be made in the manner known to most of us — a potter with his family/ assistants, identifies a location where he would get good clay, dig the site, carry the clay to his hut, mix water to the mud, make the fine paste necessary for the pot, take out small stones and foreign materials, (which will affect the quality of the finished product adversely), either manually, or through a sieve, take the processed mud, and, using the potter's wheel and stick and the innate skill of the potter, make a raw pot, sundry it and then bake it. This apauruṣeya mud pot will be made by one or more ṛṣis, who have spent hundreds or even thousands of years in tapas (austerities, penance) of the most extreme order, gained special siddhi/s as boons from different gods/goddesses which bestow superhuman powers to them.
One day one ṛṣi or a group of ṛṣis decides to make this apauruṣeya mud for the safe-keeping of man for eternity. They concentrate on the higher realms of existence, viz., bhuvarloka. suvarloka, maharloka, janaloka, tapoloka, satyaloka — each ṛṣi according to his abilities and preference and find out the best quality of clay in those 7 higher realms, bring the clay down here, make it suitable and free from particles etc., by employing their tapaśśakti, and also make a pot all without doing anything manually.
This pot has, just as the apauruṣeya vedas must have, its origin/s and creator/s. The only difference is that we will not be able to any statement like "this pot seems to be made in Karnataka', or "this pot has a small defect here; the potter seems to have been not very skilled", "this pot was not baked well in the right temperature, so it is brittle", etc., because, due to its apauruṣeyatva, all questions about its origin and potter/s is anathema and heretic; it is the divine mudpot and has everything that everyone wants and cannot have any defect of any kind whatsoever ! If you happen to see any shortcoming then it is due to your atheism/agnosticism/ lack of faith / sins of past births and so on and eternal hell is vouchsafed for such critics of the divine mudpot.
Last but not least, if something is not there in the divine mudpot, then it is completely to be rejected, unless the same is found in some other similar pot mfd by the ṛṣis of yore in the same, apauruṣeya method
Hope your request is carried out. You will see now that it is difficult to take away the names of the ṛṣis who are held to have brought out the vedic verses for us in this world.
“If you like, you can call the laws of science ‘God’, but it wouldn’t be a personal God that you could meet, and ask questions.”
He is not entirely wrong cos its true ...we can call the Law of Science "God".Isnt everything Cosmic Science only?
Why view Science as opposing to Spirituality?
Science is just methodology of explaining a phenomenon.
Right now in Science we are mostly exploring the gross phenomenon more that even considering the Subtle.
Like in medical science we only learnt about the gross body.
But when you really dissect psychiatry and psychology there is some hints of subtle phenomenon there but still not fully explored.
Hawkins is not wrong: God in the True sense is not a personal One.
Ishwara is the personal perception of God and upon realizing the Truth verily only Brahman prevails.
Hawkins is an intelligent man..He might interpret the Truth in an easy way for us to understand some day.
His answers are not too far from
om purnam adah purnam idam
purnat purnam udachyate
purnasya purnam adaya
I read what Stephen Hawking has said in the article"there is no Heaven" IMHO,he has made a correct statement comparing the brain to computers.
We do not require a knowledgeable world famous Scientist to state that the computer will fail when components fail.I sympathize with that person.
He is virtually living in hell.His statement is nothing but a statement from a frustated person suffering from some ailment for the last 49 years.
If scientists can prevent occurrence of Tsunami and other natural disasters and could control the temperature of the entire universe into a uniform one,prevent occurrence of droughts in some parts of the world and ensure sufficient quantity of water to meet the requirements of
mankind,I will recognize the Scientists as the only 'GOD'
Hawkins said:“Science predicts that many different kinds of universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing,” he said. “It is a matter of chance which we are in.”
This statement reminds me of the Sunyavada.
The phenomenal world is said to have no reality yet the world "underlying "
it defies all description because of our inability to see,grasp,comprehend "the thing itself".(svabhava)
All we can see and know is "dependent origination" and impermenance.
So if nothing is permanent and real(including seeming reality of I,me)Reality is empty(sunya) of any substance.
taken from:What is Sunyavada in Buddhism
"Once theoretically we can think of a beginningless but eternal universe, it will not require a "creator" of the Biblical style."- Sangom Sir wrote.
This is the key here..
Most Scientists have rejected the "Creator" of Bible, Koran and the Vedas.. they have ridiculed the basis of ALL the Organized Religions of the world as a Man-made Story peddled by Godmen to dominate and exploit the masses.
Once you walk out of this Organized Religions, you are free to think how and why the Universe was formed, and why the earth is moving at a rate of about 1000 miles per hour on its axis, and why is it moving at a rate of about 67000 miles per hour around the Sun, and what would happen to the earth when the Sun burnt itself out after about billion years etc..etc..
The real impediment to such inquiry is the so-called "Holy Books or the Vedas" and the Organized Religions propagated by egoistical human beings.
Spirituality is a state of mind that you feel "drunk" knowing the inside "truth' of something! lol
At least, you can put up with Spirituality over the nonsense of Organized Religions, IMO.
Vedic vision does not include absolute creation as a concept. Creation is always described from a standpoint. You may see electricity generated (created) at one point in space-time but it was in another form of energy prior to this. Eneergy is not created or destroyed though one can understand a creation of a particular form.
What vedic vision is about manifest and unmanifest aspects of Brhman.
The laws of physics as observed do not contradict this vision.
What the biblical religion talk about is not what is in vedas with respect to concept of creation. Therefore it will be inaccurate to bunch the theology of biblical religious ideas with vedic vision in my view. Having said this, I do acknowledge that many Hindus do approach their traditions with a faith much like practitionars of biblical religions.
I am not here to defend Vedas since none of these concepts need defence by anyone in my view.
It is up to us to properly understand what is presented.
Abraham and Sara are the common prohet & prohetess of the Abrahmic Faiths collectively known and singularly judaism,christanity,islam.because brahmas lies was found out,his worshipping dwindled drastically in India.On a closer look when we anagram brahmaa it becomes abraham and shorten saraswathi to sara ,which today is known as middle east asia,which once upon time was unified maha bharat eons eons back.That is why the ancient text of sanathana dharma was sysematically destroyed during occupation of various invaders in south asia.all religion have minor variations,but bhakthi is one and the same,imho.only when we suffer in life we realise the gods omnipresence in most cases,but the fortunate ones with grace realise gods omnipresence every moment of their life.god is embedded in us as butter in milk.
My understanding is Torah is the documentary basis of Judaism, Vedas are the documentary basis of Hinduism, Bible (Old and New Testament) is the documentary basis of Christianity and Koran is the documentary basis of Islam - all the major Organized Religions of the world about which I have lots of anger! lol.
My opinion is all this Holy Books were written by some Godmen or their followers over a long period of time to control the masses, to dominate them, to fragment them, and thus get benefited from them to their personal gains.. at least to satisfy their humongous ego!
My wife tells me that Brahma does not have any temple and worshipers (she believes in the Doctrine of Trinity of Gods - Brahma being the Creator, Vishnu being the Nurturer and Shiva being the Destroyer of the world) because He lied to Shiva - the Supreme of All Gods!
Your interpretation of Brahma is not what the regular Temple goers in Madurai, Trichy or Chennai are subscribing to, I am afraid.
Most Hindus do approach their religion or tradition very much similar to the followers of Biblical Religions, I believe.
I was amused to read your aligning of Abrahamic Faiths to Brahma and Saraswathi - Yes, Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) had two sons - one Issac (via Sara) and another Ismail (via Hager); Issac's progeny became the Israelis and later Christians and Ismail's progeny became the Arab Muslims.
However, Abrahamic religions were dead against idol worship from day one.. historians say that the Holy K'aba in Mecca once had hundreds of idols; long ago Prophet Abraham cursed the idol worshipers (called the Pagan Worshipers) and advocated the removal of all the idols from the Holy K'aba. Later, Prophet Muhammed also preached against all forms of idol worship (Hindus are generally considered as Idol Worshipers).
much before maha bharat was only existing,even now the red-indians aka native american indians have so much of similiar belief systems of sanathana dharma.there is even maya people called Mayans,whose calendar resembles luni-solar calendar of panchangam.I thought the Maha Bharat did not cover Saudi Arabia anytime in the past history.
Yes, some Moghal Rulers tried to destroy Hinduism but Akbar the Great tried to reconcile with the dominant religion of India - the Hinduism (Please watch Jodha Akbar and Mughale Azam).
"god is embedded in us as butter in milk."
How will you elaborate this view to the felonies of human beings? Will you say what Dominique Strauss Kahn allegedly did to the hapless House Maid is God's action?
Is God embedded in DSK? Perhaps, as a Christian he may think so!!
My view is Nature created human beings with FREE WILL... some act right according to his/her conscience and inner compass and others commit felonies...
I would like to know your pov on this..
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