shri lanka

[cheenus]

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hello all
why there is no body is bothered or raising about 20000 innocent massacred in lanka??
Is the brahimin community is so ignorant.....

 

[kunjuppu]

good point cheenus.

i see that you live in canada. if you live in toronto or any of the big cities, you can see the efforts of the sri lankan tamils highlighting their plight in their homeland.

unfortunately, none of the tamil groups, brahmin or otherwise, here has come out publicly in support.

reading the news media from tamil nadu, it appears that the brahmin press is anti ltte. folks like cho, ananda vikatan, hindu ram,dinamalar have consistently heaped hatred on the ltte.

hindu ram has been bestowed with the highest sri lankan honour. the chief guest for mani shankar ayyar's daughter's wedding was the sri lankan president (i think). all these are viewed as slaps in the face of tamil cause, by sri lankan tamil media.

i can understand and sympathize with that.

jayalalitha has gone all over the horizon re her attitudes towards ltte. surprisingly, the vhp and the bjp are ltte supporters, because the latter is a more a hindu outfit in thought and traditions, though vehemently secular.

but, for the past few years, the ltte has been the only organization which has been at the forefront of the tamil cause. ltte and tamil cause became inseparable. to selectively beat up on ltte was viewed as an indirect attack on the tamil cause.

as a result of this vitriol against the ltte, the hatred has been returned in kind in their media against the tamil brahmins. the tamil brahamins whom i know here, appear surprised at this
anti brahminsm of sri lankans, without knowing the antecedents of what is happening in tamil nadu.

personally, i think, this is another occassion, where we lost another occassion to win the goodwill of the other tamil tribes.

i think it puts our brethren in tamil nadu in jeopardy. in the long run. it is a fact that where brahmins live is public knowledge. it is not a good idea for a community to be consistently viewed as a traitor to the interests of the state where they live.

many a times, emotions overrule logic. due to the vagaries of politics, based on how quickly freedom can turn into prison, i fear for the safety of tamil brahmins as a whole, within the confines of tamil nadu.

within days, the entire northern lankasn are behind barbed wire. it took just that many days for the bosnians to get under serbian boot camps. what is there to prevent such things happening to tamil brahmins?

there is so much lamenting about the kashmiri pandits here. about the supposed hindu origins of some distant northern indian structures built centuries ago.

but we do appear unconcerned about the possible immediate peril due to outraged public opinion in tamil nadu, all focussed against us as a lightening rod.

maybe because, of reservations, we feel so alienated from the tamil nadu of today, that we go to extremes to express displeasure at any event which might be championed by other tamil groups.

i agree, that i may be paranoid, due to my readings, of immediate and easy proliferation of violence and hatred in the latter part of 20th century.

but is that not a fact? every day in pakistan about 30 people get blown up by bombs. it is not news anymore.

organized violence against tamil brahmins, i fear, will have no champions. as anyone familiar with tamil politics knows, it is not all that difficult to whip up hatred and violence.

we should learn to be more macchiavellian in our approach to the tamil society.

i believe that the tamil cause in sri lanka is not lost. it has only not yet been won.

in the next chapters of this struggle, inevitably there will be spillovers to tamil nadu. and with that, i fear, comes the danger to what is left of our our intransigent community in tamil nadu.

maybe i am overreacting and a victim of my wild imaginations. i fervently wish so.

thank you.

 

[sapr333]

good point cheenus.

personally, i think, this is another occassion, where we lost another occassion to win the goodwill of the other tamil tribes.
.

Dear Kunjuppu,

Thats indeed a 'stunningly impressive point' which you always drive in your posts ...... ie,.'Intergration with the rest of the Tamil tribes''. Even Shri. Nacchinarkiniyan used to stress this often in his posts..

I'm not sure if this point was specifically discussed earlier, but I would love if you could open up a thread exclusively for this.. This subject is definitely of interest to me, and the need of the hour too..

 

[happyhindu]

i often come across kunjuppu ji with the expression tamil "tribes"...sir, is there any specific reason why you use 'tribes' instead of castes or some other alternative since i thot people usually do not like to be called tribal ?

 

[sapr333]

i often come across kunjuppu ji with the expression tamil "tribes"...sir, is there any specific reason why you use 'tribes' instead of castes or some other alternative since i thot people usually do not like to be called tribal ?

I think Shri.Kunjuppu is infering the word 'Tribe' to the popular tamil term "Inam'' (inam- I spell as Ink, a-as U in Rum - Phonetics )used often by tamils in line with Tamil literature..(correct me if I'm wrong,cos, my knowledge of literature is very very poor,cos I took Fracais in school,for scoring better marks in +2).

Tamil Inam.. 'Yen, Tamil Inamee'.. etc. refers as Tamil Race or Tamil Tribe.. Most of the public speakers and politicians use this terms to refer fellow tamilians with a family affectionate tone..

Anyways, lets wait for Kujuppu's response..

 

[kunjuppu]

thank you sapr.

i could not have put it better than you explanation re tamil tribes. perfect.

i was also thinking along the concept of 'volk' to define the filial relationships between the various german tribes. it is indeed a very strongly bond word - inam.

i will open another thread re us and the inam bond.. thinking about how to preamble.. tough job.

thank you.

 

[[email protected]]

To All: sir , Regarding sri lankan Tamils we all TB's having great regards and we all to support them, but in tamilnadu so called tamil leaders(all of them are Telugu) spoild the tamileelam movement,for vote bank politices the used this a tool and innocent tamil's belived their speachs and today lost their hopes. But the day will come very soon a Home land for worldwide Tamil's (12core). s.r.k.

 

[hariharan1972]

i completely abhor the concept of 'inam'. tn and it's dravidian leaders who conceptualised 'dravida nadu' did so by fanning the clannish feelings of the people of tamil nadu.

at a time when we cannot be insulated from the happenings of the world, such narrow minded concepts of "inam", i think have no place in a civil society.

already enough damage has been done by the caste system and it is dangerous to encourage another impervious system in the name of 'inam'.

of all the states in india, it is only tn and maharashtra which boast of having a seperate identity. it will be a fair call to say that regional parochialism has been the singular contribution of the dravidian political system.

it is shameful to think of ourselves in terms of 'inam'. we have only one identity and that is we are all indians. and that is the only identity that we should have for the rest of our lives.

it is the concept of "inam" that the dravidian political scums use to browbeat the brahmins and pour scorn on north indians. but as shameless as they only can get, these dravidian leaders negotiate for plum postings with the 'aryans' of delhi and indulge in brazen corrpution ?

for filling their family coffers, they need india but the moment their political ideologies (!!) are questioned, they will hide behind the veil of 'inam'.

those who encourage such parochial, retrogade concept in my view are renegades.

re, the srilankan issue, it is ridiculous to even suggest that the solution to the vexed issue has anything to do with the brahmins.

the situation in srilanka is a net result of :

a) determination of sl govt to root out terrorism
b) failure of the indian political leadership to convince sl to handle ltte without affecting the interests of tamils
c) failure of the tn dravidian leaders to reign in the ltte.

the brahmins have nothing to do with any of this.

ltte deserves no sympathy and deserves to be decimated. those who shed copious tears for sl have to make a distinction between supporting a rogue that prabhakaran was and the miserable plight of the lankans.

i am certain that the indian political system is envious of the courage and determination of the sl govt to go all after ltte and finish it off. how deseperately we would like to deal the same way with the J&K insurgents, Assam insurgents and the bangladeshi illegal immigrants.

the fact is that india can only pussyfoot while sl has shown that it has the nerve to do what is right for them.

having said that, the loss of tamil civilian lives is extremely regrettable and avoidable.

the 'battle' of defeating the ltte has been won by the sl govt but the 'war' of winning the hearts of the tamils is yet to be won. and that will take quite some time and efforts.

sl tamils deserve all our help and attention but let us not even for a moment mix up our priorities between supporting a terrorist organization and the genuine grievances of the tamils.

 

[happyhindu]

what exactly is "inam" ?

is it like a code of conduct or bonding between members of different tribes?

did it exist in the tamil communities in the past? when?

it is so shameful to read that the dravidan leaders abuse even concepts of filial bonding b/w diff people, it sounds like a man abuses unity amongst allied groups for personal gain - did i get that right?

am sorry for asking these type of questions, its the first time i am coming across inam.

but i completely agree with hh-ji, nobody cud have allowed the ltte to carry on its seperatist agenda.

the racist sinhalese hardliners are equally to blame as much as the ltte - and ofcourse when two monkeys fight, the fox (politicians) in b/w make hay. am told that sinhalese politicians in a previous government earned millions in supplies to stem the civil war - it was almost like a biz that they did not want to be stopped.

the brunt totally was paid by the unfortunate tamil civilians. the sinhalese really need to win their trust and peace now.

i shudder to think what wud happen if india were to allow such aryan-dravidian rubbish, language-divide, etc to rule our emotions the way it ruled the lankans.

let it be a lesson shown and taught to everyone who beleives in rectifying past mistakes or setting past history right, without the ability and maturity on the part of the masses to deal with such things.

 

[sapr333]

what exactly is "inam" ?

is it like a code of conduct or bonding between members of different tribes?
did it exist in the tamil communities in the past? when?

Dear H.H,

The discussion between myself and Shri.Kunjuppu is all in line with the objective of this thread 'TAMIL Brahmins'.. Yes,if one looks with a broader worldview or with nationalistic eyes, I may look, bit narrow minded.

But one of the valid points,which both Shri.Nacchi & Kujuppu stress often is, the integration of TB's with the mainstream Tamils, who got alienated during Dravidian regime in the name of caste/ or even in the name of Aryan race.. AIT is proved wrong now, right!!. According to shri. Hari, it was more a kind of retaliation,which needs continue, or possibly, he lost his hope on this subject. Where as Kunjuppu's view is, use every opportunity,to get involved with the mainstream, keeping aside the past.. As Kunjuppu rightly pointed out, TB's missed a good opportunity to utilise it during this shrilankan issue..

For eg, during death of MGR/Prabakaran/when JJ was in Jail so many of the followers self immolated or protested jointly in support of J.J. But when Kanchi seer was arrested, there was abrupt silence among the hindus.. Such was the difference between the communities, which was doctored, for many selfish reasons of past.. The question here, should one retaliate and distance himself further, or get closer and find a unified solution and joint venture. I think, HariH has lost the hope on the later..

I am sure Shri.Kunjuppu would have lot more valid points to share..

 

[hariharan1972]

Sapr33,

I dont know why you think that i am 'retaliating'.

If I have come across a bit too headstrong, it is because of the fact that i consider these 'inams' a shameful dilution of the national identity.

If you think that i am condoning the happenings in sl, then you cannot be more wrong.

i condemn the loss of sl tamils as a 'human' ; i dont think one needs to be a 'tamilian' to understand the pain and sufferings of sl tamils. nor has anyone decreed so.

i find the whole attitude of 'us vs them' emanating from this concept of 'inam' ; the so called protectors of tamilians aka rabble rousers are actually hurting the interests of the sl tamils.

it is my firm belief that whatever stance and course of action that india will have to take on sl tamils has to have the larger national interests in mind.

we cannot wholesomely condemn the current sl regime just because it is against the cause of our so called 'inam'. and that cannot be any justification to trample upon the soveriegnity of another nation.

it is the abject failure of the dravidian politicians to consider the national interests and build a case for the lankan tamils that has resulted in a mute reaction from other parts of india.

except for some brief utterances by modi, outside tn, sl issue was virtually a non issue.

by constant harping of inam and the tacit / overt support to ltte, the dravidian politicians have ring-fenced the issue to tn that it has no resonance elsewhere in the country.

so to blame the brahmins or fault the central govt is obfuscating the failure of the dravidian politicians.

they have proved that it is 'panam' and not 'inam' that is dear to them.

 

[happyhindu]

Sapr,

Dear H.H,

The discussion between myself and Shri.Kunjuppu is all in line with the objective of this thread 'TAMIL Brahmins'.. Yes,if one looks with a broader worldview or with nationalistic eyes, I may look, bit narrow minded.

But one of the valid points,which both Shri.Nacchi & Kujuppu stress often is, the integration of TB's with the mainstream Tamils, who got alienated during Dravidian regime in the name of caste/ or even in the name of Aryan race.. AIT is proved wrong now, right!!. According to shri. Hari, it was more a kind of retaliation,which needs continue, or possibly, he lost his hope on this subject. Where as Kunjuppu's view is, use every opportunity,to get involved with the mainstream, keeping aside the past.. As Kunjuppu rightly pointed out, TB's missed a good opportunity to utilise it during this shrilankan issue..

Goodness, so you think srilanka issue was an opportunity for the TBs to integrate with the rest of the masses? May i ask in what way are the TBs related to a civil war in an other country that came about because of myriad factors such as skewed up history and struggle for land control?

Was it not totally the business of land control, white-washed with the idea of race and history? And i do not understand this whole idea of trying to portray the 'tamils' as different from the rest of the masses. For me, in the context of the srilanka issue and dravidian political issue, it all boils down to the idea of power control and superiority of disproportionate misplaced origins. Ofcourse, both tamils and sinhalese fell for this drummed up idea that they were racially somehow different, just bcoz they spoke diff languages and followed diff cultures. In such a case, my mother and i should also be just as different from one another.

It took a combination like rajapaksa-fonseka to weed out a cancer like ltte. And thankgod for it. Surely you cannot expect any sane tamil civilian (let alone a tb) to support any kind of anti state seperatist agenda.

Lemme put it this way, do you want telugu ppl to support an armed outfit, like say the naxals, to ask for a seperate country? They too can have a 'history' that can very well be skewed up to drum up so-called superiority for seperatism. I dunno what history says, but genetics supports that many-many tamils moved from the lands above them to the current ones, so it is impossible that they are unrelated to the populations in the lands above them.

Getting integrated with the rest of the tamils has nothing to do with the srilanka issue. Can't we learn to live with one another without infringing upon the other's wish to live life following his own culture? I do not understand the origin of this social pressure, but must say that its difficult not to fall for it.


For eg, during death of MGR/Prabakaran/when JJ was in Jail so many of the followers self immolated or protested jointly in support of J.J. But when Kanchi seer was arrested, there was abrupt silence among the hindus.. Such was the difference between the communities, which was doctored, for many selfish reasons of past.. The question here, should one retaliate and distance himself further, or get closer and find a unified solution and joint venture. I think, HariH has lost the hope on the later..

This self immolation stuff is so crass, defetist, insane, foolish. Someone i know nearly succeeded in immolating herself in the mandal commission anti reservations showdown (was misguided). Am glad nobody immolated themselves during the kanchi seer's arrest. I do not think Jayendra swami wud have ever encouraged a cowardly act like that. Just because nobody immolated themselves does not mean there is no support for Jayendra Swami. There are many-many supporting him silently (me also). Certainly, justice will be done. God has His plans. I do not think hari-ji has lost hope on any 'joint venture', instead he seems to say that isolation from the mainstream is no good. When he say 'panam' and not 'inam', am taking it for granted that inam means affinity, filiality, bonding, shared belonging.



I am sure Shri.Kunjuppu would have lot more valid points to share..

 

[hariharan1972]

thanks hh-ji.

it is my humble view that the inam identities are sub-identities at all points in time. i dont have any problems with an inam identity which is subservient to the national identity.

i prefer a "nationalist tamil" to a "tamil nationalist".

having said that, i dont have any intentions to stifle any voices here. so the patrons of tamil inam can be rest assured that i wont be indulging in any kind of witch hunting against them. their views are theirs and my view is mine.

calling upon bharathiyaar in my humble view to substantiate the case of inam is a huge misrepresentation of the ideals of bharathi.

bharathi was not the one to be chained by his tamil inam. his "clannish" feelings extended even beyond humans.

காக்கை குருவி எங்கள் ஜாதி
வான் கடலும் மலையும் எங்கள் கூட்டம்

he praised telugu as 'sundara telungu' and wanted free trade between states.

கங்கை நதிப்புரத்து கோதுமைப் பண்டம்
காவிரி வெற்றிலைக்கு மாறு கொள்வோம்

bharathi never stood for the prosperity of india at the cost of india. his was a clarion call for a strong india which included a strong tn.

riding on the shoulders of bharathi to promote the narrow, partisan ideology of inam, in my view, is a disservice to his memory.

probably guessing that his ideals could one day be brutally manhandled by the dravida goons, bharathi has already lamented thus

நல்லதோர் வீணை செய்தே
அதை நலங்கெட புழுதியில் எறிவதுண்டோ
சொல்லடி சிவசக்தி
என்னை சுடர் மிகு அறிவுடன் படைத்துவிட்டாய்

 

[sapr333]

Dear Hari, HappyHindu,

Please read my post in context with what Shri. Kunjuppu said.. Though the thread is about 'ShriLanka', the message what he said was bit different (but important)..Its all about integration of TB's with the mainland .

He has conveyed a very deep important message,and, instead of talking in line with that broad spectrum, we are deviating in to Ltte/Nationality/Self-Immolation/ Bharathiyar etc etc. Im not sure, if you all have picked up in right tone.

Anyways, the talk on Srilankan' issue at the moment is not of interest to me. The genocide is all over. History will definitely blame India/T.N (you and me)'for being a mute spectator' to the genocide of 20,000 innocent human lives.

 

[hariharan1972]

1. Though the thread is about 'ShriLanka', the message what he said was bit different (but important)..Its all about integration of TB's with the mainland .

2. He has conveyed a very deep important message,and, instead of talking in line with that broad spectrum, we are deviating in to Ltte/Nationality/Self-Immolation/ Bharathiyar etc etc. Im not sure, if you all have picked up in right tone.

3. Anyways, the talk on Srilankan' issue at the moment is not of interest to me.

4. The genocide is all over. History will definitely blame India/T.N (you and me)'for being a mute spectator' to the genocide of 20,000 innocent human lives.

1. That's digression number one. I think we will do ourselves a huge favour if we avoid the temptation of bringing in the brahmin angle in every discussion. Pray how does the views of brahmins matter to the cause of lankans. we will be making a huge mistake if we consider the views of cho, s.swamy and n.ram as that of brahmins. So this digression was really unnecessary.

2. Discussion on srilanka without ltte is like discussing about vatican without the pope. the right tone was not picked up because the right tone was not struck.

3. ok

4. History will blame the ineptitude of Karunanidhi and the diplomatic failure of Manmohan singh's govt.

 

[sapr333]

Dear Happy Hindu and Hari,

Shri.Kunjuppu has openened an interesting thread of 'Tamil Tribe-Integration'.. Awaiting ur active participation there

 

[happyhindu]

History will definitely blame India/T.N (you and me)'for being a mute spectator' to the genocide of 20,000 innocent human lives.

Dear Sapr,

This issue is about governments. And if it is a unit like ltte that killed its own people (if they did not toe the narrow lines dictated by prabhakaran), then yes it is best for all tamils and civilians to be 'mute spectators'. Am being practical. I dunno abt you, but i am sure i cannot change anything in bosnia either.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri sapr333,

Here are my two cents about Sri Lanka:

1. The Sinhalese had created the monster called LTTE by trampling on minority Tamil rights.

2. The Tamils had every right to protest non violently, but unfortunately with their support Prabhakaran came to lead them (may be he was too brutal for them to deny his leadership).

3. I think western money, more notably western Christian money and support to LTTE sustained this fight for so long.

4. As B. Raman observes that if 20,000 were massacred, the Indian Tamils would have been the first to know this as the two Tamil communities have very close ties. Because the Indian Tamils are not creating any alarm, he thinks that the 20,000 number is overly exaggerated by certain NGOs to serve their own purpose.

5. All the same, let Sri Lanka not repeat the mistake twice and start treating the minorities on par with the majority, in terms of their rights.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Sapr,

This issue is about governments. And if it is a unit like ltte that killed its own people (if they did not toe the narrow lines dictated by prabhakaran), then yes it is best for all tamils and civilians to be 'mute spectators'. Am being practical. I dunno abt you, but i am sure i cannot change anything in bosnia either.