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Should we accept our daughter's love marriage proposal?

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Men in the prospective groom's varna wear Janeu. The family is Hindu, and most of the family is Tamil Brahmin.

I understand your fear and appreciate your advice. Hopefully other people reading this will also get some direction. I will pray to our family God to help provide answers to my family, and may God also provide you with answers and direction, and perhaps an open mind to overcome your ego.
All I did was stating facts. N there's a thin line between ego n pride, I m proud of the systematic varn vyavastha my ancestors established. May ancestors forgive u for not being able to pull ur daughter out of such unfortunate circumstances. All u can do now is seek happiness in their vegetarianism ,tell others how ur daughter "allowed" u to do her kanyadaan so how grateful u must be to her n how she atleast bothered to seek ur permission. If being open minded means loosing Janeu then I choose to be the last regressive standing.
At last, I know this marriage is going to happen anyway n even if u get ur daughter married to a tamil brahmin , her next generation will definitely not bcz the fact that she even thought about keeping her preferences in the way that she keeps same profession above religion makes one think that she is definitely not going to have even staunch Hindu childrens(leave Brahmin children aside), let it happen, let "ur baby gurlll" get married, she's not going towards moksha or not going to contribute for dharma anyway , this whole discussion is a dululu thing.
 
Shankarachaarya said a lot regarding inter caste marriages also but ofc u would quote selectively.
I am not against same varna marriage because as humans we have our specific requirements when it comes to marriage.

Shankaracharya could have said much more, thats fine..but my opinion is valid too for a person who is facing a conflict within himself with regards to an intercaste marriage possibility.

I am not quoting selectively, I am selecting the Bhavani Ashtakam telling a person that finally its our own journey no matter what happens.

Btw would you mind sharing the views of Shankaracharya on intervarna marriage? I could learn something or two from you too.
 
North India survived mughals, sultanate empire and what not still our people stood strong. Yes! Some North Indian Brahmins drink and some eat meat but beef? Rarely, literally rarely.
We fight, we pick arms if needed while our southern counterparts don't. Being vegetarian n doing kalash n lota things is just a part of being Brahmin n not everything about being a Brahmin.
Overall North of India, Pakistan and Afghanistan have a tendency towards intolerance and violence.
South India is more balanced.
May be thats why South Brahmins are more Sattva.
Sometimes the effect of the land and area has an effect on the mind.
North India and Pakistan only saw blood shed and conflict..so the " biomemory" of violence in that area is higher and it affects the minds of people there.
 
All I did was stating facts. N there's a thin line between ego n pride, I m proud of the systematic varn vyavastha my ancestors established. May ancestors forgive u for not being able to pull ur daughter out of such unfortunate circumstances. All u can do now is seek happiness in their vegetarianism ,tell others how ur daughter "allowed" u to do her kanyadaan so how grateful u must be to her n how she atleast bothered to seek ur permission. If being open minded means loosing Janeu then I choose to be the last regressive standing.
At last, I know this marriage is going to happen anyway n even if u get ur daughter married to a tamil brahmin , her next generation will definitely not bcz the fact that she even thought about keeping her preferences in the way that she keeps same profession above religion makes one think that she is definitely not going to have even staunch Hindu childrens(leave Brahmin children aside), let it happen, let "ur baby gurlll" get married, she's not going towards moksha or not going to contribute for dharma anyway , this whole discussion is a dululu thing.
What??
How do you know who goes towards Moskha or not?
In many traditions not all Alwars and Nayanars were Brahmins.

Moksha isnt just for any one Varna.

Please do not wish ill for anyone or their generation.
How are you so sure that her children might not be staunch Hindus.
Good thoughts should always prevail.
 
All I did was stating facts. N there's a thin line between ego n pride, I m proud of the systematic varn vyavastha my ancestors established. May ancestors forgive u for not being able to pull ur daughter out of such unfortunate circumstances. All u can do now is seek happiness in their vegetarianism ,tell others how ur daughter "allowed" u to do her kanyadaan so how grateful u must be to her n how she atleast bothered to seek ur permission. If being open minded means loosing Janeu then I choose to be the last regressive standing.
At last, I know this marriage is going to happen anyway n even if u get ur daughter married to a tamil brahmin , her next generation will definitely not bcz the fact that she even thought about keeping her preferences in the way that she keeps same profession above religion makes one think that she is definitely not going to have even staunch Hindu childrens(leave Brahmin children aside), let it happen, let "ur baby gurlll" get married, she's not going towards moksha or not going to contribute for dharma anyway , this whole discussion is a dululu thing.

It's wonderful you are so proud of being Hindu ... but do not let the pride get to your head. The 'Unfortunate Circumstances' for much of your harsh judgements is about my daughter potentially marrying another Hindu, in a country with less than 1% Hindu, where Hindu's are already struggling to survive? You showing such distaste for your fellow hindus is helping your Karma, you think? Remember Karma is both thought and action, both which must be pure, free of ego, pride, and of complete selflessness, as per Lord Krishna. I would much rather my daughter be kind, compassionate, proud Hindu with a love for the world and her fellow people, than one who is only prioritize being Brahmin while her eyes are shut to her fellow Hindu community, the world and circumstances around her. Wishing and basking in triumph that others do not reach enlightenment does not make you a good Hindu, let alone a good Brahmin.

You are nothing. None of us are. We are born, fulfill our dharma to our best extent, and then die when we are judged for the karma we have gotten. No one is talking about loosing janeau, and it is good for you you will never choose to do that -- an easy choice when the country you live in is already 70%+ Hindu country. Yes my daughter prioritizes her profession in searching for a groom. It is her form of sadhana and service to the world and community, and it is her way to filter out fellow service minded people who can accomodate her work life, goals, and principles. She believes her service to her community is through her work. You believe your service to your community is through proper marriage. It is not your place, as a mortal, to judge which is correct or better or what -- that is only up to the Gods.

You say Shankaracharya -- just one Indian Hindu philsopher, and Ramanujacharyaji -- where in Vedas Shruthi it says Varna is birth based? How about the Bhagvad Gita, Swami Vivekananda, Sri Ramakrishna, Sri Aurobindo, Arya Samaj, ISKON? Why are you selectively choosing? Remember inter-caste endogamous marriage only probably begin 100 CE -- the Vedas have existed since 1800 BCE. Varna is important for culture, social identity, status, mindset, and family health, but it is not divinely sanctioned, as per the only divine sources -- Vedas, Bhagvad Gita. the Manusmriti and Shastras, law books, even say if the rules are not relevant to not follow.

It is wonderful that Harshitaji, people like you are passionate about the community. But you are no God, no Shankarachaarya, no Lord Krishna -- just human. So please do not act like your words are the words of God, nor speak ill of my family. You do not know how Hindu we are or we are not. Do not speak of my ancestors, worry about your own.

BTW: There are many Hindu sects that believe in different ways to attain Moksha, and there are 4 ways to do it. Bhakthi, Gnana, Karma, and Raja. Marrying within varna will allow you to better practice one's dharma/karma, but is not necessary, just helpful advice. Even Adi Shakaracharya said this in his reasoning.
 
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There is both theory and practice. Theory is intercaste marriage is not ok. Practice may deviate from it. I think the theory is good but as with many theories there are exceptions. Your case may be exceptional or unique.

Btw, of the elements of nature only humans try to go against laws. Everything else follow laws. I think humans are designed and destined to do that way. Half of them are supposed to explore and find out. It is difficult to stop them.

What best gives long term peace should be the solution. Sometimes it may be difficult to accept things. As long as lives
are not in danger and long term peace of our loved ones are not in danger I would say anything is ok if it cannot be avoided.
 
There is both theory and practice. Theory is intercaste marriage is not ok. Practice may deviate from it. I think the theory is good but as with many theories there are exceptions. Your case may be exceptional or unique.

Btw, of the elements of nature only humans try to go against laws. Everything else follow laws. I think humans are designed and destined to do that way. Half of them are supposed to explore and find out. It is difficult to stop them.

What best gives long term peace should be the solution. Sometimes it may be difficult to accept things. As long as lives
are not in danger and long term peace of our loved ones are not in danger I would say anything is ok if it cannot be avoided.
Sravanaji, i agree. Theory exists for a reason, and marrying within varna provided structure and stability to society and allowed individual to fulfill their dharma. Otherwise a bunch of people will be running around with no structure, family, or direction! Everyone should be instructed to listen to this advice. But also as I live in USA with fellow Abrahamics, it does not help to take such a fundamentalist view for each case. Adi Shankaracharya cited Manusmriti which also said to pour hot iron in the ears of a Sudra who dare listen to the vedas, or chop off his tongue if he speaks badly of a Brahmin. Hopefully we also do not take this literally!

When the situation comes, as it will in such a changing world, either with our rebellious kids, grand kids, or great grandkids, advice given by others seems best -- discourage, but if child remains firm, support the decision. Talking to friends kids will do what they want and better to maintain relationship for sake of grandchildren, no need to harm more lives.

Thanks all for advice.
tat tvam asi. Om shanti.
 
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All I did was stating facts. N there's a thin line between ego n pride, I m proud of the systematic varn vyavastha my ancestors established. May ancestors forgive u for not being able to pull ur daughter out of such unfortunate circumstances. All u can do now is seek happiness in their vegetarianism ,tell others how ur daughter "allowed" u to do her kanyadaan so how grateful u must be to her n how she atleast bothered to seek ur permission. If being open minded means loosing Janeu then I choose to be the last regressive standing.
At last, I know this marriage is going to happen anyway n even if u get ur daughter married to a tamil brahmin , her next generation will definitely not bcz the fact that she even thought about keeping her preferences in the way that she keeps same profession above religion makes one think that she is definitely not going to have even staunch Hindu childrens(leave Brahmin children aside), let it happen, let "ur baby gurlll" get married, she's not going towards moksha or not going to contribute for dharma anyway , this whole discussion is a dululu thing.
Anyway, l feel this thread has served its purpose.
Let everyone be happy.
May you Harshita remain a very Happy Hindu Brahmin and let others too remain a Happy Hindu though not in a same Varna marriage.
Insha Bhagawan.
 
I am not against same varna marriage because as humans we have our specific requirements when it comes to marriage.

Shankaracharya could have said much more, thats fine..but my opinion is valid too for a person who is facing a conflict within himself with regards to an intercaste marriage possibility.

I am not quoting selectively, I am selecting the Bhavani Ashtakam telling a person that finally its our own journey no matter what happens.

Btw would you mind sharing the views of Shankaracharya on intervarna marriage? I could learn something or two from you too.
hi

sri sankaracharya said many good things...are really follow in our day to day life....we quote sri sankaracharya

words....when ever we feel fit for our life...other wise not applicable...we are living in ARTIFICIAL INTELLEGENCE world....other wise we miss the bus...like it or it ....destiny takes our life...
 
hi

sri sankaracharya said many good things...are really follow in our day to day life....we quote sri sankaracharya

words....when ever we feel fit for our life...other wise not applicable...we are living in ARTIFICIAL INTELLEGENCE world....other wise we miss the bus...like it or it ....destiny takes our life...
Hi

thanks dr renuka madam.....
 
Some people are proud and ignorant. You can be proud of your achievements if You won an individual Gold medal in the Olympics, you topped the IAS examination, or you were awarded a Bharat Ratna. Those are measurable accomplishments.

Being born into a Brahmin family and being a crook is no achievement. To be proud of perceived greatness (self-ascribed) is not a case for being proud. When you are proud of your achievement and have no humility, and no sympathy toward others your boasting is hollow.
The greatest human trait is empathy towards other fellow creatures.
 
Actually no! Our ancestors survived poverty and they still upholded janeu, it's the psychological slavery that killed the South Indian Brahmin community. Psychological western slavery of trying to be an Englishman killed the community n the most guilty of all are the priests who evaluate sahastra howsoever they want so that they can get their daughters married to some mallech instead of saving their daughters and teaching them the right thing. Periyar and Ambedkar successfully uprooted varna vyavastha from a lot of regions from India and the result is that cows are being slaughtered in those regions today. Ambedkar wrote in his book, "If you want to finish the brahmins then marry the Brahmin women. Dalits should marry Brahmin women and take them out of their varna. Then Brahmins the micro minority 3 percent population of india will have no women left to marry and breed. They will die a natural death and become extinct". We have become so money driven that we have stopped caring about the stability of the society. I m just scared for the last of Brahmins, the North Indian ones, they need to be protected at all costs. Even though most of their children are staunch when it comes to upholding janeu but even 10% of examples would be enough to pollute the minds of the next generation. Thankfully! Unlike our south indian counterparts, our youth still understands varna vyavastha and the young generation (including me) is aware of these adharmi things which will lead to our downfall.
Well, I’m only glad atleast you’re aware of the world around you. See, to sum it up, there are two options, you try hard to make people see the world through the lens of the Shastras, which people will perceive as very orthodox or a losers way. Yes, all the Acharyas are losers, cause they’re not doing anything credible in their life, simply sitting and mumbling some Sanskrit mantras. So, expecting people to go down that path is difficult, because that way is the way of Gurus and ascetics, not everyone has the mettle for it. The Path of Sankara, Rama and Buddha. Full of pain and self discovery that requires real maturity and intelligence. The more you preach of this path, more flak you’ll receive in today’s times.

Another path would be the path of materialism. Let people follow whatever they want. You can maintain your sanity all the while preaching insanity to others, the modern way of hypocrisy. Everybody loves this, cause this is a sugary path, anybody can survive this. Remember what Krishna said about this Yuga, everything would be upside down, the Varna order created by him would be lost, the brahmanas would have fallen. So, we are witness to his words. The more people fall from their places, more Krishna, Vyasa is proven right. So accelerate the chaos. That is also Gods work. Should you choose to accept this path or the former, I leave it to you, but all that you can do as a Norma person is, follow it within the family and the network around us. That is all mere mortals like us can do. If your circle of influence becomes larger, act accordingly.

Besides, Cheers and don’t worry, let the peiple who wish to leave, go, dont hold them back. It’s painful for all. Good times are coming,but before that, you’ll have to brace the storm. So save your energy!!!!
 
Well, I’m only glad atleast you’re aware of the world around you. See, to sum it up, there are two options, you try hard to make people see the world through the lens of the Shastras, which people will perceive as very orthodox or a losers way. Yes, all the Acharyas are losers, cause they’re not doing anything credible in their life, simply sitting and mumbling some Sanskrit mantras. So, expecting people to go down that path is difficult, because that way is the way of Gurus and ascetics, not everyone has the mettle for it. The Path of Sankara, Rama and Buddha. Full of pain and self discovery that requires real maturity and intelligence. The more you preach of this path, more flak you’ll receive in today’s times.

Another path would be the path of materialism. Let people follow whatever they want. You can maintain your sanity all the while preaching insanity to others, the modern way of hypocrisy. Everybody loves this, cause this is a sugary path, anybody can survive this. Remember what Krishna said about this Yuga, everything would be upside down, the Varna order created by him would be lost, the brahmanas would have fallen. So, we are witness to his words. The more people fall from their places, more Krishna, Vyasa is proven right. So accelerate the chaos. That is also Gods work. Should you choose to accept this path or the former, I leave it to you, but all that you can do as a Norma person is, follow it within the family and the network around us. That is all mere mortals like us can do. If your circle of influence becomes larger, act accordingly.

Besides, Cheers and don’t worry, let the peiple who wish to leave, go, dont hold them back. It’s painful for all. Good times are coming,but before that, you’ll have to brace the storm. So save your energy!!!!

Very nice apt message sir.
 
Well, I’m only glad atleast you’re aware of the world around you. See, to sum it up, there are two options, you try hard to make people see the world through the lens of the Shastras, which people will perceive as very orthodox or a losers way. Yes, all the Acharyas are losers, cause they’re not doing anything credible in their life, simply sitting and mumbling some Sanskrit mantras. So, expecting people to go down that path is difficult, because that way is the way of Gurus and ascetics, not everyone has the mettle for it. The Path of Sankara, Rama and Buddha. Full of pain and self discovery that requires real maturity and intelligence. The more you preach of this path, more flak you’ll receive in today’s times.

Another path would be the path of materialism. Let people follow whatever they want. You can maintain your sanity all the while preaching insanity to others, the modern way of hypocrisy. Everybody loves this, cause this is a sugary path, anybody can survive this. Remember what Krishna said about this Yuga, everything would be upside down, the Varna order created by him would be lost, the brahmanas would have fallen. So, we are witness to his words. The more people fall from their places, more Krishna, Vyasa is proven right. So accelerate the chaos. That is also Gods work. Should you choose to accept this path or the former, I leave it to you, but all that you can do as a Norma person is, follow it within the family and the network around us. That is all mere mortals like us can do. If your circle of influence becomes larger, act accordingly.

Besides, Cheers and don’t worry, let the peiple who wish to leave, go, dont hold them back. It’s painful for all. Good times are coming,but before that, you’ll have to brace the storm. So save your energy!!!!
Isnt Veda Vyasa himself inter varna? Father a Brahmana and mother a Sudra?
 
Isnt Veda Vyasa himself inter varna? Father a Brahmana and mother a Sudra?
Well, yes he is just one Vyasa. And exceptions cannot become the norm. Rules for the mortal society are different from the rules set for exemplary individuals like Krishna, Bheem, Rishi’s etc.
 
Well, yes he is just one Vyasa. And exceptions cannot become the norm. Rules for the mortal society are different from the rules set for exemplary individuals like Krishna, Bheem, Rishi’s etc.
But not just one of the Vyasas.
He is Veda Vyasa..the reason why we celebrate Guru Poornima.
I am surprised you said he is just one Vyasa.
He is THE Vyasa.
 
Well, yes he is just one Vyasa. And exceptions cannot become the norm. Rules for the mortal society are different from the rules set for exemplary individuals like Krishna, Bheem, Rishi’s etc.
NO, he wasn't a varna shankar. He was born out of divine bond which is above varna vyavastha.
 
Well, I’m only glad atleast you’re aware of the world around you. See, to sum it up, there are two options, you try hard to make people see the world through the lens of the Shastras, which people will perceive as very orthodox or a losers way. Yes, all the Acharyas are losers, cause they’re not doing anything credible in their life, simply sitting and mumbling some Sanskrit mantras. So, expecting people to go down that path is difficult, because that way is the way of Gurus and ascetics, not everyone has the mettle for it. The Path of Sankara, Rama and Buddha. Full of pain and self discovery that requires real maturity and intelligence. The more you preach of this path, more flak you’ll receive in today’s times.

Another path would be the path of materialism. Let people follow whatever they want. You can maintain your sanity all the while preaching insanity to others, the modern way of hypocrisy. Everybody loves this, cause this is a sugary path, anybody can survive this. Remember what Krishna said about this Yuga, everything would be upside down, the Varna order created by him would be lost, the brahmanas would have fallen. So, we are witness to his words. The more people fall from their places, more Krishna, Vyasa is proven right. So accelerate the chaos. That is also Gods work. Should you choose to accept this path or the former, I leave it to you, but all that you can do as a Norma person is, follow it within the family and the network around us. That is all mere mortals like us can do. If your circle of influence becomes larger, act accordingly.

Besides, Cheers and don’t worry, let the peiple who wish to leave, go, dont hold them back. It’s painful for all. Good times are coming,but before that, you’ll have to brace the storm. So save your energy!!!!
I agree with everything except the statement that Acharyas r loosers. No, they r just the last flames of Dharma. They aren't loosers, people who cross the sea to get their daughters married to mallechs and eventually justify it are loosers n cursed. Only way to survive in kaliyug is not be extreme on either sides. Varna Shankarta is extreme liberalism.
 
It's wonderful you are so proud of being Hindu ... but do not let the pride get to your head. The 'Unfortunate Circumstances' for much of your harsh judgements is about my daughter potentially marrying another Hindu, in a country with less than 1% Hindu, where Hindu's are already struggling to survive? You showing such distaste for your fellow hindus is helping your Karma, you think? Remember Karma is both thought and action, both which must be pure, free of ego, pride, and of complete selflessness, as per Lord Krishna. I would much rather my daughter be kind, compassionate, proud Hindu with a love for the world and her fellow people, than one who is only prioritize being Brahmin while her eyes are shut to her fellow Hindu community, the world and circumstances around her. Wishing and basking in triumph that others do not reach enlightenment does not make you a good Hindu, let alone a good Brahmin.

You are nothing. None of us are. We are born, fulfill our dharma to our best extent, and then die when we are judged for the karma we have gotten. No one is talking about loosing janeau, and it is good for you you will never choose to do that -- an easy choice when the country you live in is already 70%+ Hindu country. Yes my daughter prioritizes her profession in searching for a groom. It is her form of sadhana and service to the world and community, and it is her way to filter out fellow service minded people who can accomodate her work life, goals, and principles. She believes her service to her community is through her work. You believe your service to your community is through proper marriage. It is not your place, as a mortal, to judge which is correct or better or what -- that is only up to the Gods.

You say Shankaracharya -- just one Indian Hindu philsopher, and Ramanujacharyaji -- where in Vedas Shruthi it says Varna is birth based? How about the Bhagvad Gita, Swami Vivekananda, Sri Ramakrishna, Sri Aurobindo, Arya Samaj, ISKON? Why are you selectively choosing? Remember inter-caste endogamous marriage only probably begin 100 CE -- the Vedas have existed since 1800 BCE. Varna is important for culture, social identity, status, mindset, and family health, but it is not divinely sanctioned, as per the only divine sources -- Vedas, Bhagvad Gita. the Manusmriti and Shastras, law books, even say if the rules are not relevant to not follow.

It is wonderful that Harshitaji, people like you are passionate about the community. But you are no God, no Shankarachaarya, no Lord Krishna -- just human. So please do not act like your words are the words of God, nor speak ill of my family. You do not know how Hindu we are or we are not. Do not speak of my ancestors, worry about your own.

BTW: There are many Hindu sects that believe in different ways to attain Moksha, and there are 4 ways to do it. Bhakthi, Gnana, Karma, and Raja. Marrying within varna will allow you to better practice one's dharma/karma, but is not necessary, just helpful advice. Even Adi Shakaracharya said this in his reasoning.
Hmmm... So u basically said, "I can't do anything, there r very less Hindus only here leave Brahmins aside, I m trying to get my daughter settled and have no other option but this so now I'll try defending my selfish options which led to this anyhow to make myself feel better".
Such a sad situation.
 
But not just one of the Vyasas.
He is Veda Vyasa..the reason why we celebrate Guru Poornima.
I am surprised you said he is just one Vyasa.
He is THE Vyasa.
No he is the Vyasa currently, like Namo is the PM currently. The next Vyasa is going to be Ashwathama as per the Puranas. So until Ashwathama takes over, the Vyasa we refer to is be Krishna Dwaipayana who is the 28th Vyasa.
 
No he is the Vyasa currently, like Namo is the PM currently. The next Vyasa is going to be Ashwathama as per the Puranas. So until Ashwathama takes over, the Vyasa we refer to is be Krishna Dwaipayana who is the 28th Vyasa.
Ashwathama the slayer of the Upapandavas when they were sleeping?
How did he get away with such an adharmic act to get to become a Vyasa ?
 
Oh god u literally know nothing!
Satyavati wasn't a normal mortal, she was divine and is described as so in our texts.
Thanks for letting me know.
As far as I know she was from the fisherman community.
Ok..then what about sage Valmiki?
He wrote the Ramayan?
Was he also divine and not from a hunter caste.

I would love to learn more.
Kindly let me know.
Could you kindly provide the text that says she was divine?
Just to add..I write politely to you..it would be nice to hear gentle words from you too.

Oh god u literally know nothing!
Satyavati wasn't a normal mortal, she was divine and is described as so in our texts.
 
Good.
Everybody has a right to live by their own principles and circumstances. None of us can understand other's situations.
So none of us can dictate terms to others. We can empathize or even sympathize with our fellow human beings.
Just because one follows XYZ practice or religion it does not make them any better. There are non-Sanatana Dharma people who are 1000% better human beings, And similarly, there are people who follow Sanatana Dharma and are better than others. Religion does not make the person. So I would not break my hand to pat my back. A little bit of humility makes you a better social being.
Why one is to born in brahmin and then switch over other caste.
 
Ashwathama the slayer of the Upapandavas when they were sleeping?
How did he get away with such an adharmic act to get to become a Vyasa ?
Why not, a robber wrote the Itihasa, a carpenter became a poet, history is replete with such cases and moreover he already is suffering the consequences of his misdeeds. Until Kalki comes, it’s a painful existence for him. The man has suffered long enough…moreover if someone as pious as Prabhu Shri Ram, if his descendant can fight against the Pandavas at Kurushektra, anything can happen.

Exact reason behind it maybe someone more knowledge can highlight on that.
 
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