Should we accept our daughter's love marriage proposal?

[mrk616]

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We are in the USA. My eldest daughter, 28 years, has found a love with an interesting background. His grandmother is Iyer, father half-brahmin, and mother is non-religious American. Son was raised American, is ok adjusting to Brahmin customs and profession and otherwise a good match for my daughter. He is aware of Brahmin lifestyle and customs through extended family. We are not liking some of his family and their values. Boy eats nonveg but wants to adjust and not cook/bring nonveg in the house. Can/Is the Groom considered Brahmin because of his mixed ancestry and can we perform a Brahmin wedding? We are unsure how to approach this circumstance.

 

[Lotusinsanskrit]

I have seen in others suggestion in different posts, it is better to do with arya samaj wedding and i feel that will be better instead of brahmin wedding. I have personally seen how difficult it will be if boy is not a brahmin and performing brahmin rituals. in this case also boy is not a brahmin, from your writing. It is understood even his father is not even half brahmin as you write, because fathers clan only be taken. So your satisfaction you are taking wherever possible the mix of brahmin but is not so and as you yourself mentioned they are otherwise perfect match then why second thought or opinion seeking from others.

 

[prasad1]

Congratulations.

Should we accept our daughter's love marriage proposal?

The title of this topic is misleading. I do not think you mrk616 has any role in the decision process. Nor do we have any say. The boy and girl decided and maybe their parents are ok with it.
Whether you like it or not it is their choice.

If you want to perform a Tamil Brahmin wedding and she is willing to go along it can be done.
In the USA it is very common. In my family, I have seen this. If you can not find a priest PM me I will help you.

I do not like to torture the groom with understandable mantras and rituals and create a spectacle of our practice for attending guests. It is better to cut it short.
It ultimately rests with the boy and the girl and to an extent with the parents as they might be paying for it.


Lotusinsanskritji's suggestion is a good one, even a court-registered marriage followed by a reception is worth exploring.

 

[Hari51]

We are in the USA. My eldest daughter, 28 years, has found a love with an interesting background. His grandmother is Iyer, father half-brahmin, and mother is non-religious American. Son was raised American, is ok adjusting to Brahmin customs and profession and otherwise a good match for my daughter. He is aware of Brahmin lifestyle and customs through extended family. We are not liking some of his family and their values. Boy eats nonveg but wants to adjust and not cook/bring nonveg in the house. Can/Is the Groom considered Brahmin because of his mixed ancestry and can we perform a Brahmin wedding? We are unsure how to approach this circumstan

 

[Hari51]

Congratulations.


The title of this topic is misleading. I do not think you mrk616 has any role in the decision process. Nor do we have any say. The boy and girl decided and maybe their parents are ok with it.
Whether you like it or not it is their choice.

If you want to perform a Tamil Brahmin wedding and she is willing to go along it can be done.
In the USA it is very common. In my family, I have seen this. If you can not find a priest PM me I will help you.

I do not like to torture the groom with understandable mantras and rituals and create a spectacle of our practice for attending guests. It is better to cut it short.
It ultimately rests with the boy and the girl and to an extent with the parents as they might be paying for it.


Lotusinsanskritji's suggestion is a good one, even a court-registered marriage followed by a reception is worth exploring.

Even a Orthodox brahmin son-in-law can snytimr start eating non veg. Many brahmins in US boast that they don't have poonal . So if you feel boy is otherwise good, can keep your daughter happy then go ahead but do a registered marriage. No need to twist Hinduism by any vadyar. Give a grand reception. Tell your daughter to follow Hindu rituals, ingotm him of significance so slowly he may change

 

[tbs]

We are in the USA. My eldest daughter, 28 years, has found a love with an interesting background. His grandmother is Iyer, father half-brahmin, and mother is non-religious American. Son was raised American, is ok adjusting to Brahmin customs and profession and otherwise a good match for my daughter. He is aware of Brahmin lifestyle and customs through extended family. We are not liking some of his family and their values. Boy eats nonveg but wants to adjust and not cook/bring nonveg in the house. Can/Is the Groom considered Brahmin because of his mixed ancestry and can we perform a Brahmin wedding? We are unsure how to approach this circumstance.

Hi

We live in USA too....my daughter married to white american christian boy......but they are VEGANS.... i think

they are better than vegetarians.....even better than my own daughter....we just say...we are TB....but we are

not VEGAN....

 

[Krishnan.vp]

I am a TB.. I have been in the US , Singapore and Australia. I would say dont accept the proposal. Tell your daughter gently and try to convince her the values that our brahmin system has and the need for extending our lineage. Find her a good looking brahmin boy varan.. together with your daughter take a dip into tamilmatrimony.com or brahminmatrimony.com there are more than a few good looking eligible brahmin bachelors that too residing in USA .. mostly after completing masters degree. Nowadays even citizens of australia, canada, singapore and UK are also advertising looking for brides. You have a lot of choice.. especially the women.

Try.

You are trying to do the right thing by trying to get a brahmin groom so back yourself. Talk to your daughter.. If it goes to hell.. then hell with it. But try. Show your daughter options.

A few people posting might be against our culture and the indian state. One of them actually posts mostly derogatory posts and bad news about India.. Dont listen to them and give up easily on your daughter.. after all she is your baby.. she should have a good life.

My best wishes

 

[Krishnan.vp]

But dont push so hard on your daughter that your relationship breaks..

 

[Krishnan.vp]

It might not be a waste of time to go through this thread here..

The Quandary of Tamil Brahmin Bride Shortages!

As more than 40,000 young Tamil Brahmin men are finding it difficult to find brides within the state, the Tamil Nadu based association for Brahmins has launched a special drive to look for suitable matches belonging to the same community in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. While I have no comments...

www.tamilbrahmins.com

It might be important to understand which boy might be an ambi and which boy might be ultra modern ... i.e. if you decide to take a chance and look at the brahminmatrimony.com or iyengarmatrimony.com or iyermatrimony.com along with your daughter.

Try to look for american, australian or canadian citizens for best possible match in terms of mindset.. Indian citizens might well be .. you know.. indian.. not sure if thats ok or not with your daughter.

I wish you all the best.

 

[Harshita Pandey]

We are in the USA. My eldest daughter, 28 years, has found a love with an interesting background. His grandmother is Iyer, father half-brahmin, and mother is non-religious American. Son was raised American, is ok adjusting to Brahmin customs and profession and otherwise a good match for my daughter. He is aware of Brahmin lifestyle and customs through extended family. We are not liking some of his family and their values. Boy eats nonveg but wants to adjust and not cook/bring nonveg in the house. Can/Is the Groom considered Brahmin because of his mixed ancestry and can we perform a Brahmin wedding? We are unsure how to approach this circumstance.

The hell is mixed Brahmin first of all??
Nothing can be done now, doesn't matter if u accept this proposal or not, u probably didn't raise her with values good enough to understand dharma . She has no sense of community/varna just like most TBs don't have n the fault is urs. She will do whatever she want n u accepting/not accepting that can't stop her.

 

[mrk616]

The hell is mixed Brahmin first of all??
Nothing can be done now, doesn't matter if u accept this proposal or not, u probably didn't raise her with values good enough to understand dharma . She has no sense of community/varna just like most TBs don't have n the fault is urs. She will do whatever she want n u accepting/not accepting that can't stop her.

No need to be so crass ... wife and I did our best to raise children and daughter at least considers herself Hindu and practices Brahminism to her best ability. They grew up in USA and society is different here. Boy is at least of some Tamil Hindu descendent so we hav to be ok even if not Brahmin. What can we do? Daughter is getting old. Boy is willing to adjust and all we can pray for my daughter's happiness.

 

[renuka]

The hell is mixed Brahmin first of all??
Nothing can be done now, doesn't matter if u accept this proposal or not, u probably didn't raise her with values good enough to understand dharma . She has no sense of community/varna just like most TBs don't have n the fault is urs. She will do whatever she want n u accepting/not accepting that can't stop her.

??? Why so harsh?
The destiny of each one of us humans differ.
A person might not marry into their same Jati/Varna but that doesnt mean he or she was not raised with good values.
And a person who does not marry their own varna that does NOT mean they have no values either.
There a lot of people who marry within their own jati varna be it Brahmin or Non Brahmin but not always have values too.

Finally its left to the individual to decide for their lives.

 

[B. J. Shankar]

??? Why so harsh?
The destiny of each one of us humans differ.
A person might not marry into their same Jati/Varna but that doesnt mean he or she was not raised with good values.
And a person who does not marry their own varna that does NOT mean they have no values either.
There a lot of people who marry within their own jati varna be it Brahmin or Non Brahmin but not always have values too.

Finally its left to the individual to decide for their lives.

Most of the parents are under pressure from boy or girl for their marriage. I am of the firm opinion parents should not encourage love marriage or intercaste marriage.. If any brahmin boy or girl marry other caste or religion boy/girl they have no right to perform or join in the vedic rituals or family related functions like srartham, samaradhanai, sumangali prarthanai and finally unfit to perform last rites to departed mother or father. By years passed, parents slowly fall in the trap of their boy or girl.I am a staunch believer and supporter of varnashrama philosophy and sanathana dharma. RAM RAM

 

[prasad1]

Most of the parents are under pressure from boy or girl for their marriage. I am of the firm opinion parents should not encourage love marriage or intercaste marriage.. If any brahmin boy or girl marry other caste or religion boy/girl they have no right to perform or join in the vedic rituals or family related functions like srartham, samaradhanai, sumangali prarthanai and finally unfit to perform last rites to departed mother or father. By years passed, parents slowly fall in the trap of their boy or girl.I am a staunch believer and supporter of varnashrama philosophy and sanathana dharma. RAM RAM

Good.
Everybody has a right to live by their own principles and circumstances. None of us can understand other's situations.
So none of us can dictate terms to others. We can empathize or even sympathize with our fellow human beings.
Just because one follows XYZ practice or religion it does not make them any better. There are non-Sanatana Dharma people who are 1000% better human beings, And similarly, there are people who follow Sanatana Dharma and are better than others. Religion does not make the person. So I would not break my hand to pat my back. A little bit of humility makes you a better social being.

 

[renuka]

Most of the parents are under pressure from boy or girl for their marriage. I am of the firm opinion parents should not encourage love marriage or intercaste marriage.. If any brahmin boy or girl marry other caste or religion boy/girl they have no right to perform or join in the vedic rituals or family related functions like srartham, samaradhanai, sumangali prarthanai and finally unfit to perform last rites to departed mother or father. By years passed, parents slowly fall in the trap of their boy or girl.I am a staunch believer and supporter of varnashrama philosophy and sanathana dharma. RAM RAM

Ok..this depends on mindset of a person...if you like to adhere strictly, its fine.

 

[Harshita Pandey]

No need to be so crass ... wife and I did our best to raise children and daughter at least considers herself Hindu and practices Brahminism to her best ability. They grew up in USA and society is different here. Boy is at least of some Tamil Hindu descendent so we hav to be ok even if not Brahmin. What can we do? Daughter is getting old. Boy is willing to adjust and all we can pray for my daughter's happiness.

Just find a boy within ur own community n get her married sir! I don't know what's so difficult in it! Brahminism is not all about being vegetarian n singing n dancing on classical rhythms.
I went to Himachal few days back, it has a very little Muslim population so it is getting difficult in Himachal to find matches for Muslims. I met a Muslim lady who is earning about 60k INR per month n is married to a Muslim guy who's earning 15k INR per month, when I asked her if it's a love marriage bcz these kind of matches r not common in arranged marriage scenarios she told me that it's an arranged marriage and she had many proposals from Hindu grooms too but she denied all of them bcz her religion comes first. These r the kind of people who survive . These r the kind of people who understand how democracy and demography works. There were groups who wanted to end tamil brahmins n they actually succeeded in doing it, credit goes to the unfortunate impotency and cowardice of u guys. Anyway! U guys r a gone case n all u can do now is accept proposals ur sons n daughters bring in the name of being vegans n similar stupid stuffs. If u guys would have wanted u could have organised urself in USA and UK and saved urself but u choose not to n it's too late now.

 

[mrk616]

Just find a boy within ur own community n get her married sir! I don't know what's so difficult in it! Brahminism is not all about being vegetarian n singing n dancing on classical rhythms.
I went to Himachal few days back, it has a very little Muslim population so it is getting difficult in Himachal to find matches for Muslims. I met a Muslim lady who is earning about 60k INR per month n is married to a Muslim guy who's earning 15k INR per month, when I asked her if it's a love marriage bcz these kind of matches r not common in arranged marriage scenarios she told me that it's an arranged marriage and she had many proposals from Hindu grooms too but she denied all of them bcz her religion comes first. These r the kind of people who survive . These r the kind of people who understand how democracy and demography works. There were groups who wanted to end tamil brahmins n they actually succeeded in doing it, credit goes to the unfortunate impotency and cowardice of u guys. Anyway! U guys r a gone case n all u can do now is accept proposals ur sons n daughters bring in the name of being vegans n similar stupid stuffs. If u guys would have wanted u could have organised urself in USA and UK and saved urself but u choose not to n it's too late now.

Easy to say when you do not know ... Hindus themselves are only 1% in USA ... in India it is fine to advice since many Indian Hindus are anti-Brahmin. Here our struggle is maintaining Hinduism and Hindu culture.We have shown daughter grooms for past years. Boy n his family is willing to undergo poonal ceremony and raise kids with Brahmin values. Just because one is not born Brahmin does not mean they cannot become Brahmin or have Brahmin values. Mahabharata and ancient Vedic texts says varna is determined by ones personal quality and mindset. You guys are all following British caste system which says caste is only based on birth order -- that is what will lead to extinction of Brahmins, like what is happening to Parsis. If you want to live orthodox that is fine and your personal choice but it is not a smart one when u leave India.

It is not impotency. It is belief in our culture that has survived multiple invasions and has existed since the beginning of time. We have raised our children with good values we know will pass on even when they decide to marry out of our community, because we have raised strong women with strong love for their values and culture. My daughter is cardio surgeon who volunteers at kovil, does pooja every morning, goes to ashram every year, and teaches carnatic music weekly and has fundraisers for kovils -- n u r telling me my daughter has no values?

What is sad is you sitting in India lecturing with no idea what culture or society is here. We wish my daughter will have accepted Brahmin groom. But we have faith she will make a decision best for herself and our family, and the boy has accepted and is willing to convert into our samapradaya completely so upon reflection any opposition is only based in ego.

Thx for everyone's advice. Peace and Om Shanti.

 

[renuka]

Just find a boy within ur own community n get her married sir! I don't know what's so difficult in it! Brahminism is not all about being vegetarian n singing n dancing on classical rhythms.
I went to Himachal few days back, it has a very little Muslim population so it is getting difficult in Himachal to find matches for Muslims. I met a Muslim lady who is earning about 60k INR per month n is married to a Muslim guy who's earning 15k INR per month, when I asked her if it's a love marriage bcz these kind of matches r not common in arranged marriage scenarios she told me that it's an arranged marriage and she had many proposals from Hindu grooms too but she denied all of them bcz her religion comes first. These r the kind of people who survive . These r the kind of people who understand how democracy and demography works. There were groups who wanted to end tamil brahmins n they actually succeeded in doing it, credit goes to the unfortunate impotency and cowardice of u guys. Anyway! U guys r a gone case n all u can do now is accept proposals ur sons n daughters bring in the name of being vegans n similar stupid stuffs. If u guys would have wanted u could have organised urself in USA and UK and saved urself but u choose not to n it's too late now.

The muslim woman was also marrying another muslim( same religion)

The OP's daughter here who is Hindu wants to marry another Hindu.
It might be an intercaste marriage but its not an inter religion marriage.

 

[Harshita Pandey]

The muslim woman was also marrying another muslim( same religion)

The OP's daughter here who is Hindu wants to marry another Hindu.
It might be an intercaste marriage but its not an inter religion marriage.

Muslims don't follow varna system, Muslims don't follow gotta system, Muslims don't understand concept of moksha, these things don't matter to muslims but they will go to literally any extent to protect things that matter to them n Hindus will go to any extent to eliminate things that matter to them.
I took her example to make u understand that how other people r sacrificing for their future generations and how our people are okay with literally anything.

 

[Harshita Pandey]

??? Why so harsh?
The destiny of each one of us humans differ.
A person might not marry into their same Jati/Varna but that doesnt mean he or she was not raised with good values.
And a person who does not marry their own varna that does NOT mean they have no values either.
There a lot of people who marry within their own jati varna be it Brahmin or Non Brahmin but not always have values too.

Finally its left to the individual to decide for their lives.

N this behaviour is the exact reason y Tamil brahmins failed to protect themselves, identifying themselves as individuals instead of a community.

 

[renuka]

N this behaviour is the exact reason y Tamil brahmins failed to protect themselves, identifying themselves as individuals instead of a community.

I am not a Tamil Brahmin but all I was saying is every person is an individual first, then family..then community, then nation..then the world..then the universe.
After the body drops, its then karmic imprints.

I understand the importance of same varna marriages for Brahmins..I have been a member here for a long time but all I opposed is calling someone else's daughter as not well brought up in terms of importance of marrying within the same Varna.

Otherwise your post is fine if you are wanting to preserve your lineage and varna.

 

[rckappu]

Congratulations.


The title of this topic is misleading. I do not think you mrk616 has any role in the decision process. Nor do we have any say. The boy and girl decided and maybe their parents are ok with it.
Whether you like it or not it is their choice.

If you want to perform a Tamil Brahmin wedding and she is willing to go along it can be done.
In the USA it is very common. In my family, I have seen this. If you can not find a priest PM me I will help you.

I do not like to torture the groom with understandable mantras and rituals and create a spectacle of our practice for attending guests. It is better to cut it short.
It ultimately rests with the boy and the girl and to an extent with the parents as they might be paying for it.


Lotusinsanskritji's suggestion is a good one, even a court-registered marriage followed by a reception is worth exploring.

Good suggestion, in these changing times.

 

[Lotusinsanskrit]

The OP's daughter here who is Hindu wants to marry another Hindu

I have already given my reply to OP. This part I am taking because you have to read OP again which does not say about grand father and mother is non religious American, as per the recent study people claim they are non religious in America.

 

[vrajagopalan57]

We are in the USA. My eldest daughter, 28 years, has found a love with an interesting background. His grandmother is Iyer, father half-brahmin, and mother is non-religious American. Son was raised American, is ok adjusting to Brahmin customs and profession and otherwise a good match for my daughter. He is aware of Brahmin lifestyle and customs through extended family. We are not liking some of his family and their values. Boy eats nonveg but wants to adjust and not cook/bring nonveg in the house. Can/Is the Groom considered Brahmin because of his mixed ancestry and can we perform a Brahmin wedding? We are unsure how to approach this circumstance.

Om namo Narayanaya.
9/9/2023.
Dear friend,
हरिः ॐ। नमो नमः। शुभमड्गलम् प्राप्तिरस्तु -
is my wishes and suggestions too. Hopefully, you can conceive what I wish to suggest. Anyways, please spare your valuable time and try to read my reply message with an open heart and mind till the end, more as a father of affectionately brought up daughter and not as a person with certain inhibitions that can be compromised for the happiness. Okay.
I am not saying this casually. I am a Sri-vaishnava Tamiz speaking Iyengar brahmin practicing and teaching Sanskrit and Veda-vedanta preachings, besides modern technology & engineering subjects to the needy and youngsters resp. However, being a distinction and merit holder of three PGs in academics & a retired professional R&D Scientist from the Department of Atomic Energy and having experienced the same puzzle in my family, I can understand your agony, as a father, due to the practices being followed for ages in your family and at the same time the unshakeable decision taken regarding a groom by your elder daughter for her self. Yes, it's indeed inexplicable pain to say 'YES, go ahead to her' immediately for her decision to wed a groom practicing different culture then yours. One main thing you have to think and decide.
Being a Sanskrit and Veda teacher and your's as well as my roots and family culture are from Vedas for ages, I shall start with a Sanskrit sloka related to the issue raised. It is:
"Brahma-daivastathaivarsah, prajapatya-statha 'surah, Gandharva raksasascaiva, Paisavastamah smrtah"- Manusmruti, 3.22.
In Veda-puranas, Dharma sastra and major smritis, like Manusmriti, as said above, the 8-marriage forms are: viz. Brahma, Daiva, Arsa, Prajapatya, Asura, Gandharva, Raksasa and Paisasa, which are acceptable since (vedic-) times immemorial. In this case, it is of "Gandharva Type", like Sakuntala & Dushyanta, i.e. LOVE marriage. So, the sastra it self says that,"if a healthy kanya likes a healthy var / male and vice-versa" then it is parents Dharma to accept it and let (may have say: 'get') them married. So, an adult, matured (physiologically and mentally) girl can marry in Gandharva or Svyamvsra way. In reality, the rule as per dharmasastra is that a girl must be married before she attains puberty, "pradanam prak rtah". It's a crime as per present day marriage acts to get any girl get married before 18 years completion and obviously all girls by 18 are matured. This implies, we are not ...
Now, let me say as an affectionate father, not as a ritualistic or dharmik: what a parent wants in Kaliyuga? His affectionate daughter should be happy at her in-law's place and kept affectionately by the groom, like or more than him and his wife. As a father, he can not even visualise, forget seeing, a drop of tear rolling from his daughter's eyes any time in her in-law's house, especially because of the groom. This emotional suspense (again for the girl's benefit and favour only) only prevents any parent of any Varna to get their girl married to other Varna or an unknown same Varna groom too, selection of a groom by the girl herself, without the knowledge or consent of parents and elders who brought her up and made a woman. Ofcourse, all arranged are not successful and all unarranged marriages (love marriages & intercaste / inter religion) are failures. In case of any mishap between the couple, in arranged marriages, a suffering girl cry along with parents and in love marriages, she has to cry alone. But, my self being a Vedic astrologer too, of late, over a decade plus, surptisingly, I am seeing these days, even in arranged marriage couples hardly a few cross 5 out of 10 inter-compatibility needs. So, as said in Vedic scriptures, marriages are made in heaven and no one can marry other's girl or boy. Its destined. We parents, at the most can sanctify the relation, liked or not liked, and bless the couple for a happy and prosperous wedded life. Accept the groom wholeheartedly and concede to the request of your beloved daughter for her happiness sake, because your happiness is her happiness. Else all destined, as per individuals purvajanma karma. Accepting your grown up mentally competent daughter's selection is the best option to make your beloved daughter happy the day she is leaving your house for the new one. As Veda, if one girl likes whole heartedly a man, she gets married automatically. As per our Veda, the divine marriage is for once only in a girl's life time. The girl is said to be others wealth, to be given one day the other. Father or parent remains a care taker of others wealth. This is what the great Sri-vaishnava Acharya Periazwar said with emotional attachment and pain when his only daughter Aandal- Lakshmi was to be given to Lord Vishnu, knowing well the groom is none other than whom he pray day in and day out. That is parental maaya. Since a father gives away his heart (daughter) to the one whom she likes (shall start liking), her gotra changes the day kanyadhanam (the supreme of supreme dhanams, but not to be misunderstood or mis interpreted by feminists differently) is done by the father. Ultimately, I would say it's your and your wife's decision to say yes or no, agree or not to agree to get her married, which ever way you both, your daughter and groom likes. Dear friend, we can understand your agony and paradox, but as a third party, no one can decide for you. Ifs and buts are known to you well. So, think twice and decide, so that you nor your daughter regret. Once decided think it's destiny. The family God,you pray truly, always give you the needed intellect to show the best path and it will be always good. Even in the case of wedding of Parvataraja princess Parvati with Lord Shiva (totally rejected by Parvataraja), any third person, including lord Vishnu or Brahma, could not decide and marriage of Parvati with Shiva has taken place and it was totally successful. To conclude, though being a rigid rituals following person who has sailed in the same boat as yours, I, opting yo be more as a father of my beloved, intellectual, worldly wise, matured and highly qualified daughter, trusted wholeheartedly my daughter's selection and praying lord Narayana to bless her and her groom the best in their life said Okay and I did the kanyadhansm as per my family culture and tradition followed by their tradition too making the event more enjoyable & memorable. The base of my decision and yielding to her desire was not only my emotional attachment to my daughter but her decisive saying to the boy (which I came to know and also confirmed by my daughter personally) that "I cannot marry you, let the hell fall on me, unless my father will not do the kanyadhanam willingly and happily with his own hands, the way he desires the wedding to be done for me". Finally, it's emotion and mutual trust (parent with children, and var with vadhu) matters more these days then the rigid ritual thinking. As on date, I can vouch with an open heart in the name of my Lord Narayana, we (my self, my wife and my family) would not have got any better son-in-law than the one selected and married by my able and dearest daughter, even if we would have searched for decades with microscopic eyes and telescopic vision in my own clan and culture. I am proud to say to day, after a decade plus years of their wedding, that he is not just my son-in-law but my own eldest, most affectionate and most beloved, eldest son. I feel, I am blessed for enlightening decisive power given by my family God.
Hopefully, I feel, I could convey (,not suggest) what you expected from us as a third party well wishers! If you go ahead with her marriage with the groom she preferred then Subhashyasheegram. Please do not forget to send me a wedding Shubhapatrika (not a card or an invitation), so that I can bless her remotely and pray the almighty to bless them the best. If not, wish you all the best to get a groom of your as well as your daughter's choice at the earliest.
Remember one thing in life: Getting defeated or surrendering to your own spouse and grown up children, especially daughters and grand children gives so much of happiness at older age than self winning everything everytime in a family. It's a divine bliss to be locked by grand kids and is a supreme blessing by the almighty to any human. Please enjoy the life long pleasure of winning in loosing (- may be said as self ego or living artificially for any third party mouths, at times including relatives these days) to your own flesh and blood, the affectionate children, who are going to carry the torch of your attitude and culture further for the progeny. Love has succeeded all the time and won many social and ritualistic hidden wars.
May lord Narayana bless every one, especially you and your wife, your daughter, to decide correctly and select the successful path and lead a happy and prosperous life forever. Thanks for reading my lengthy message. Please pardon me for the unsolicited or inadvertent opinions and/or remarks or even suggestions at places and in certain context. बहवः धन्यवादाः। सर्वे भवन्तु सुखिनः। सर्वेषां जयं भवतु!
शुभं भूयात्!
Your well wishing friend,
श्री-श्रीरामानुजाचार्यस्य दासः,
वासुदेवः राजगोपालः अय्यड्गारः
(Vasudevan Rajagopalan Iyengar)
Bangalore.

 

[renuka]

Om namo Narayanaya.
9/9/2023.
Dear friend,
हरिः ॐ। नमो नमः। शुभमड्गलम् प्राप्तिरस्तु -
is my wishes and suggestions too. Hopefully, you can conceive what I wish to suggest. Anyways, please spare your valuable time and try to read my reply message with an open heart and mind till the end, more as a father of affectionately brought up daughter and not as a person with certain inhibitions that can be compromised for the happiness. Okay.
I am not saying this casually. I am a Sri-vaishnava Tamiz speaking Iyengar brahmin practicing and teaching Sanskrit and Veda-vedanta preachings, besides modern technology & engineering subjects to the needy and youngsters resp. However, being a distinction and merit holder of three PGs in academics & a retired professional R&D Scientist from the Department of Atomic Energy and having experienced the same puzzle in my family, I can understand your agony, as a father, due to the practices being followed for ages in your family and at the same time the unshakeable decision taken regarding a groom by your elder daughter for her self. Yes, it's indeed inexplicable pain to say 'YES, go ahead to her' immediately for her decision to wed a groom practicing different culture then yours. One main thing you have to think and decide.
Being a Sanskrit and Veda teacher and your's as well as my roots and family culture are from Vedas for ages, I shall start with a Sanskrit sloka related to the issue raised. It is:
"Brahma-daivastathaivarsah, prajapatya-statha 'surah, Gandharva raksasascaiva, Paisavastamah smrtah"- Manusmruti, 3.22.
In Veda-puranas, Dharma sastra and major smritis, like Manusmriti, as said above, the 8-marriage forms are: viz. Brahma, Daiva, Arsa, Prajapatya, Asura, Gandharva, Raksasa and Paisasa, which are acceptable since (vedic-) times immemorial. In this case, it is of "Gandharva Type", like Sakuntala & Dushyanta, i.e. LOVE marriage. So, the sastra it self says that,"if a healthy kanya likes a healthy var / male and vice-versa" then it is parents Dharma to accept it and let (may have say: 'get') them married. So, an adult, matured (physiologically and mentally) girl can marry in Gandharva or Svyamvsra way. In reality, the rule as per dharmasastra is that a girl must be married before she attains puberty, "pradanam prak rtah". It's a crime as per present day marriage acts to get any girl get married before 18 years completion and obviously all girls by 18 are matured. This implies, we are not ...
Now, let me say as an affectionate father, not as a ritualistic or dharmik: what a parent wants in Kaliyuga? His affectionate daughter should be happy at her in-law's place and kept affectionately by the groom, like or more than him and his wife. As a father, he can not even visualise, forget seeing, a drop of tear rolling from his daughter's eyes any time in her in-law's house, especially because of the groom. This emotional suspense (again for the girl's benefit and favour only) only prevents any parent of any Varna to get their girl married to other Varna or an unknown same Varna groom too, selection of a groom by the girl herself, without the knowledge or consent of parents and elders who brought her up and made a woman. Ofcourse, all arranged are not successful and all unarranged marriages (love marriages & intercaste / inter religion) are failures. In case of any mishap between the couple, in arranged marriages, a suffering girl cry along with parents and in love marriages, she has to cry alone. But, my self being a Vedic astrologer too, of late, over a decade plus, surptisingly, I am seeing these days, even in arranged marriage couples hardly a few cross 5 out of 10 inter-compatibility needs. So, as said in Vedic scriptures, marriages are made in heaven and no one can marry other's girl or boy. Its destined. We parents, at the most can sanctify the relation, liked or not liked, and bless the couple for a happy and prosperous wedded life. Accept the groom wholeheartedly and concede to the request of your beloved daughter for her happiness sake, because your happiness is her happiness. Else all destined, as per individuals purvajanma karma. Accepting your grown up mentally competent daughter's selection is the best option to make your beloved daughter happy the day she is leaving your house for the new one. As Veda, if one girl likes whole heartedly a man, she gets married automatically. As per our Veda, the divine marriage is for once only in a girl's life time. The girl is said to be others wealth, to be given one day the other. Father or parent remains a care taker of others wealth. This is what the great Sri-vaishnava Acharya Periazwar said with emotional attachment and pain when his only daughter Aandal- Lakshmi was to be given to Lord Vishnu, knowing well the groom is none other than whom he pray day in and day out. That is parental maaya. Since a father gives away his heart (daughter) to the one whom she likes (shall start liking), her gotra changes the day kanyadhanam (the supreme of supreme dhanams, but not to be misunderstood or mis interpreted by feminists differently) is done by the father. Ultimately, I would say it's your and your wife's decision to say yes or no, agree or not to agree to get her married, which ever way you both, your daughter and groom likes. Dear friend, we can understand your agony and paradox, but as a third party, no one can decide for you. Ifs and buts are known to you well. So, think twice and decide, so that you nor your daughter regret. Once decided think it's destiny. The family God,you pray truly, always give you the needed intellect to show the best path and it will be always good. Even in the case of wedding of Parvataraja princess Parvati with Lord Shiva (totally rejected by Parvataraja), any third person, including lord Vishnu or Brahma, could not decide and marriage of Parvati with Shiva has taken place and it was totally successful. To conclude, though being a rigid rituals following person who has sailed in the same boat as yours, I, opting yo be more as a father of my beloved, intellectual, worldly wise, matured and highly qualified daughter, trusted wholeheartedly my daughter's selection and praying lord Narayana to bless her and her groom the best in their life said Okay and I did the kanyadhansm as per my family culture and tradition followed by their tradition too making the event more enjoyable & memorable. The base of my decision and yielding to her desire was not only my emotional attachment to my daughter but her decisive saying to the boy (which I came to know and also confirmed by my daughter personally) that "I cannot marry you, let the hell fall on me, unless my father will not do the kanyadhanam willingly and happily with his own hands, the way he desires the wedding to be done for me". Finally, it's emotion and mutual trust (parent with children, and var with vadhu) matters more these days then the rigid ritual thinking. As on date, I can vouch with an open heart in the name of my Lord Narayana, we (my self, my wife and my family) would not have got any better son-in-law than the one selected and married by my able and dearest daughter, even if we would have searched for decades with microscopic eyes and telescopic vision in my own clan and culture. I am proud to say to day, after a decade plus years of their wedding, that he is not just my son-in-law but my own eldest, most affectionate and most beloved, eldest son. I feel, I am blessed for enlightening decisive power given by my family God.
Hopefully, I feel, I could convey (,not suggest) what you expected from us as a third party well wishers! If you go ahead with her marriage with the groom she preferred then Subhashyasheegram. Please do not forget to send me a wedding Shubhapatrika (not a card or an invitation), so that I can bless her remotely and pray the almighty to bless them the best. If not, wish you all the best to get a groom of your as well as your daughter's choice at the earliest.
Remember one thing in life: Getting defeated or surrendering to your own spouse and grown up children, especially daughters and grand children gives so much of happiness at older age than self winning everything everytime in a family. It's a divine bliss to be locked by grand kids and is a supreme blessing by the almighty to any human. Please enjoy the life long pleasure of winning in loosing (- may be said as self ego or living artificially for any third party mouths, at times including relatives these days) to your own flesh and blood, the affectionate children, who are going to carry the torch of your attitude and culture further for the progeny. Love has succeeded all the time and won many social and ritualistic hidden wars.
May lord Narayana bless every one, especially you and your wife, your daughter, to decide correctly and select the successful path and lead a happy and prosperous life forever. Thanks for reading my lengthy message. Please pardon me for the unsolicited or inadvertent opinions and/or remarks or even suggestions at places and in certain context. बहवः धन्यवादाः। सर्वे भवन्तु सुखिनः। सर्वेषां जयं भवतु!
शुभं भूयात्!
Your well wishing friend,
श्री-श्रीरामानुजाचार्यस्य दासः,
वासुदेवः राजगोपालः अय्यड्गारः
(Vasudevan Rajagopalan Iyengar)
Bangalore.

Dear Sir,
I have no words to describe how beautiful your post is.
It addressed every aspect of the situation from tradition to ground reality.
Regards