Scientific knowledge as a projection of Spiritual Knowledge

[auh]

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Sorry Sravna, if that is what you see in my posts, then I would have to say that you have, perhaps, not seen much of the outside world (with people). What you have said above seems childish, to me at least.

And even in your above post, you seem to harbour the notion that I have been sarcastic and it is my problem. Well, then there is no need for you to voice it out, is it not?

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Auh,

I don't mean that the outside world is a lot different. But I am only denying the fact of a statement you made in your post.

Shri Auh, voicing out my opinion need not mean I have a problem with anything.

 

[auh]

Dear Sravna, it is rather vague when you say that I have said something to hurt a person, but yet would not say where and how.

"voicing out my opinion need not mean I have a problem with anything." - So, it is an opinion now and not a fact .

Take it easy.

 

[renuka]

AUH is in this forum Only Since May, 2013 BUT

What the freak yaar??

So what if anyone has been in the forum since May 2013 only?

This whole thread itself is about universe not have a beginning or may be started at some point... time travel back to the infinite and back to the future again...lost in space..Brahman..Maya..name it ..its a Primordial Soup out here!

When time itself is relatively speaking and the universe is a Beginningless Beginning in this thread so what difference does it make if a member has been here even before the Big Bang or just joined yesterday?

I just don't get it??

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna, it is rather vague when you say that I have said something to hurt a person, but yet would not say where and how.

"voicing out my opinion need not mean I have a problem with anything." - So, it is an opinion now and not a fact .

Take it easy.

No problem Shri Auh

 

[sangom]

Shri Sangom,

My post no.162 was not specifically intended to reflect on anything in "your" posts.

My post was in general, to appear in this forum publicly, because you included my name in your post to state that Shri.Sravna and myself and probably few in this world are odd men out, out of our mind, distinct from the rest of the World at large.

See your post below, if you feel that, this post of mine is unsubstantial -

Dear Sravna,

All that you have done is to give out your ideas about spiritual, spiritual laws etc., which may be intelligible to you (and perhaps Shri Ravi also) but the world at large will definitely not be able to make head or tail out of it.

OK, Ravi, so you have understood what Shri Sravna's theorems or postulates are. So, then will you kindly favour the forum with some examples to demonstrate spiritual laws which are contrary to physical laws, and some physical laws in consonance with their corresponding spiritual laws.

Please do not try to throw mud on me unless and until you give the above examples.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,

Since it has not specifically happened or at least to our knowledge a spiritual energy negating a physical energy, I will give you one that which is equivalent to it and that which can be proved by logic:

Directly verifiable truth: Physical universe exists
Spiritual law: Spiritual energy creates and destroys the universe

I think if you once again closely follow my logic we will arrive at the conclusion that spiritual energy can supercede physical energy. If you do not follow my logic for some reason let me know which specific one, I will be glad to explain.

Sir,

We have to first define what is "spiritual energy". Secondly, it is necessary to prove beyond logical doubt that this so-called spiritual energy is the one thing which is contained in everything in this universe.

Then, if we are talking about philosophy here as "spiritual level", then as you know very well, the hindu vedanta itself is at loggerheads over the reality or unreality of the seeming universe (according to me, since I try to follow the advaita pov; for the VAs and dvaitins this is not a seeming universe, but real and so these two contrarian points of view have to be sorted out first, I think.)

Finally, it is also necessary to prove, again logically, that this universe must have two phases.

Only then can your law lead one to any intelligent understanding as relates to ordinary humans.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom,

The question now is whether you accept that the universe was created out of spiritual energy? Let us first try to settle that basic question. If not what are your objections, if possible with reference to my arguments? I will then address your point about examples.

 

[sravna]

Sir,

We have to first define what is "spiritual energy". Secondly, if we are talking about philosophy here as "spiritual level", then as you know very well, the hindu vedanta itself is at loggerheads over the reality or unreality of the seeming universe (according to me, since I try to follow the advaita pov; for the VAs and dvaitins this is not a seeming universe, but real and so these two contrarian points of view have to be sorted out first, I think.)

I have always been clear about what is spiritual energy being something that transcends space and time.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,

The question now is whether you accept that the universe was created out of spiritual energy? Let us first try to settle that basic question. If not what are your objections, if possible with reference to my arguments? I will then address your point about examples.

As the proponent of a new theory it is for you first to prove your basic assumptions; to get something from the opponent's intelligence and then trying to weave yet another similar unprovable theory is not what is required.

 

[sravna]

Sir,

We have to first define what is "spiritual energy". Secondly, if we are talking about philosophy here as "spiritual level", then as you know very well, the hindu vedanta itself is at loggerheads over the reality or unreality of the seeming universe (according to me, since I try to follow the advaita pov; for the VAs and dvaitins this is not a seeming universe, but real and so these two contrarian points of view have to be sorted out first, I think.)

Dear Shri Sangom,

It is absolutely not necessary to sort out the various points of views of hindu philosophy. We are not talking about any particular philosophy but only try to reason if this world has emerged out of something that transcends this world.

 

[sangom]

I have always been clear about what is spiritual energy being something that transcends space and time.

What is that "something that transcends space and time."? Have you got it? Its properties? How does it manifest and how to detect and measure this spiritual energy in different objects? Can a mathematical value like G be assigned to this?

I have since expanded my post # 182, so kindly respond to the other points therein also.

 

[sravna]

As the proponent of a new theory it is for you first to prove your basic assumptions; to get something from the opponent's intelligence and then trying to weave yet another similar unprovable theory is not what is required.

Dear Shri Sangom,

You have to be more equable and reasonable if we are to argue rationally. I suggested to go through my arguments to find any flaws. As a proponent I have done my job. It is as an opponent you have to respond.

 

[sravna]

I suggest that you put forth all your objections coherently and in one place

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,

You have to be more equable and reasonable if we are to argue rationally. I suggested to go through my arguments to find any flaws. As a proponent I have done my job. It is as an opponent you have to respond.

I unlike yourself, who "has always been clear about what is spiritual energy being something that transcends space and time", am not having that faculty to know about any "spiritual energy" which can transcend space and time. That is why I asked that first of all this term "spiritual energy" has to be explained and made intelligible to at least those who have some grounding in Physics, if not for the laymen also.

Unless this is done by you first, how can anyone accept or intelligently refute your new found theory?

Simply saying "I have always been clear about what is spiritual energy being something that transcends space and time" and therefore, all of you there! better believe my words implicitly" (or else lose your heads!) does not befit a scientist; it can be a prophet only. I do not think you have qualified for the prophet's status yet.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom,

If the properties of spiritual energy are required to refute my argument , let me say that I believe that the spiritual energy is:

1. Eternal
2. Omniscient
3. Omnipotent
4. Pure bliss
5. Pure consciousness

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,

If the properties of spiritual energy are required to refute my argument , let me say that I believe that the spiritual energy is:

1. Eternal
2. Omniscient
3. Omnipotent
4. Pure bliss
5. Pure consciousness

Dear Shri Sravna,

You see, once again, that your answer relates only to the realm of your own "belief" or "beliefs". If that be the norm, I can say "I believe that gravity is mother earth pulling everything around her and not allowing anything to go away." and I can add "I believe that the earth has a certain female deity which has taken this form of a globe", etc.

I do not think these are logical statements.

You are free to imagine anything at your personal level but to present your beliefs here as though you are giving shape to some qualifier for scientific knowledge (this thread has been titled "Scientific knowledge as a projection of Spiritual Knowledge") is misleading, to put it mildly.

I do not want to get involved in such obscure ideas any more. So, goodbye, at least from this thread.

May be there are other members who will respond in a more learned manner than I can.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom,

These are not just beliefs. It is not difficult to prove them. But I do not want to get in to that at this moment. I have presented arguments and have arrived at a certain conclusion based solely on those arguments. I have never mentioned about the spiritual energy in any of my premises or facts.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Shri Sangom,

If the properties of spiritual energy are required to refute my argument , let me say that I believe that the spiritual energy is:

1. Eternal
2. Omniscient
3. Omnipotent
4. Pure bliss
5. Pure consciousness

Dear Shri Sangom,

These are not just beliefs. It is not difficult to prove them. But I do not want to get in to that at this moment. I have presented arguments and have arrived at a certain conclusion based solely on those arguments. I have never mentioned about the spiritual energy in any of my premises or facts.

Shri Sravna,


When the question in hand is about validating the qualities of Spiritual Energy, I feel, the points revolving around this particular question and the subsequent views in line with your thread topic can be taken ahead Only and Only if its all been shared among the believers of Spiritual Energy. Because, Theists believe in Spiritual Energies and what you have listed out about the qualities of spiritual energy in your post no.191 can be validated "at least to the extent of general understanding" among the Theists.

Otherwise, this thread would be as same as "God Exists" thread, leading to burning sensations between the Theists and Atheists/Agnostics.

 

[sravna]

In Science what we call as laws operate with certainty and with constancy. So if scientific laws are to be falsified with certainty and constancy there has to be superior laws. When I say the "scientific laws are to be falsified" I mean they give way to the underlying real laws which operate without the constraints of space and time.

Let me first start with something in which I have personal experience. As some of the members might be knowing that I have said, that I have cured some health problems, the most recent one being the one of my close relative who has been having repeated seizures for the past few years. She seems to have been cured of the problem now after I attempted to set it right by application of thoughts alone. Let me add that this is not just an isolated example but have done similar cures with consistency in the past.

Now the point is if there is only a physical reality how is it possible to interact with something physical such as the human body in a non physical way? I have only one thing to say to all those who may just dismiss this as coincidence or offer scientific reasons as explanations, that the results have been time and again been repeated with the same success and can be related to the onset of my effort.

Coming back to the main point again, unless we conclude that thoughts have the potential to interact with and influence matter, I think this eludes explanation. So there is something which has an authority over matter and hence operates at a level higher than that of the physical reality.

I am certainly not claiming any superior attributes for my mind but only stating that physical reality is not the ultimate reality not only from the evidence that I vouch for but also from innumerable such cures and miracles effected by many great spiritually gifted people of the past.

I think it is time that we research into the possibility of a higher world and not be blinded by the advances made by science and technology in the recent past and hence be unable to see the merit in any theory of reality other than that of science

 

[renuka]

Let me first start with something in which I have personal experience. As some of the members might be knowing that I have said, that I have cured some health problems, the most recent one being the one of my close relative who has been having repeated seizures for the past few years. She seems to have been cured of the problem now after I attempted to set it right by application of thoughts alone. Let me add that this is not just an isolated example but have done similar cures with consistency in the past.

Now the point is if there is only a physical reality how is it possible to interact with something physical such as the human body in a non physical way? I have only one thing to say to all those who may just dismiss this as coincidence or offer scientific reasons as explanations, that the results have been time and again been repeated with the same success and can be related to the onset of my effort.

Dear Sravna,

May I ask how you went about with this?

What exactly did you transmit in the form of thought waves to the other person?

I hope you don't mind answering cos I believe you and just want to know what exactly did you do and lets see if I can offer a valid explanation on how you managed it.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

May I ask how you went about with this?

What exactly did you transmit in the form of thought waves to the other person?

I hope you don't mind answering cos I believe you and just want to know what exactly did you do and lets see if I can offer a valid explanation on how you managed it.

Dear Renuka,

Yes, definitely. All I do is just focus on the problem and think that the problem be set right. It just works!

My own theory is that thoughts can act as spiritual energy and whenever spiritual energy acts on something, it brings it in synchronization with the spiritual reality. Since spiritual reality is timeless, anything in accord with it becomes long lasting and in this case the body regains the health.

This is what I think is basically happening.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Yes, definitely. All I do is just focus on the problem and think that the problem be set right. It just works!

My own theory is that thoughts can act as spiritual energy and whenever spiritual energy acts on something, it brings it in synchronization with the spiritual reality. Since spiritual reality is timeless, anything in accord with it becomes long lasting and in this case the body regains the health.

This is what I think is basically happening.

Dear Sravna,

I believe you that this is possible to a certain extent but I have seen a person my mother's friend who used to this and eventually she fell very sick herself.

She later saw a Swami ji who advised her not to do such healings cos she did not have the required "spiritual" ability to handle the hit backs from curing another person.

So Sravna...better take care and not to attempt too much with this cos you have no idea what imbalance you could be causing in your own body.

Further more we have no idea how non specific thoughts from anyone can affect another persons eventually..so what seems like an apparent cure might actually cause any other problem later.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Renuka,

My own theory is that thoughts can act as spiritual energy and whenever spiritual energy acts on something, it brings it in synchronization with the spiritual reality. Since spiritual reality is timeless, anything in accord with it becomes long lasting and in this case the body regains the health.

This is what I think is basically happening.

I agree with your statement, Shri.Sravna,

That's why people get into devotion, meditating before their Ishta Devatha..Spiritual energies are pure and powerful and are only for righteous cause.

When a person takes shelter in spirituality with purity of mind and gets in thoughts/meditation, the vibrations surrounding him/her brings him/her in synchronization with timeless spiritual reality. Provided, he or she continues to retain purity in his/her thoughts and deeds while living his/her life, every day-in and day-out.

When such righteous people with spiritual energies vibrating in and around him/her brings in an another person in his/her thoughts for the betterment of that another person, then, that another person is most likely to get benefited.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

I believe you that this is possible to a certain extent but I have seen a person my mother's friend who used to this and eventually she fell very sick herself.

She later saw a Swami ji who advised her not to do such healings cos she did not have the required "spiritual" ability to handle the hit backs from curing another person.

So Sravna...better take care and not to attempt too much with this cos you have no idea what imbalance you could be causing in your own body.

Further more we have no idea how non specific thoughts from anyone can affect another persons eventually..so what seems like an apparent cure might actually cause any other problem later.

Dear Renuka,

I understand that it is still almost a totally unknown area. But I am convinced of one thing. Spiritual energy cannot destroy and that it can do only good. Since in my view it is a holistic effect, the problem of side effects are non existent.

I strongly refrain from using it unless it would really seem there would be some benefit in using it.