Sanskrit is purely a Dravidian Origin !!

[Jaykay767]

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Dear Jaykay,

I just remembered this..I have a doctor friend a Northern Indian Punjabi Sarasawat Brahmin old man who told me that he traced his ancestry and he told me that he has some Greek blood and he was non stop bragging about it till I got sick and tired and told him(Olympics was hosted in Greece that year) and I told him "why dont you use your family tree to get a free ticket to the olympics"

I was surprised that he seemed overjoyed to know he had some Greek blood.

Hi Renuka,

Good one ! - LOL !

Cheers,
JK

 

[saidevo]

namaste BS.

If by 'sassy' you mean 'saucy' as 'rude, impertinent', then we might translate it into Tamizh as
துடுக்கான--tuDukkAna

and for the meaning 'pert, sprightly, stylistic or smart' for 'saucy', the translation could be:
மிடுக்கான--miDukkAna

Is there a Tamil equivalent for the word "sassy" ?

 

[BostonSankara]

Namaste Saidevo!

மிடுக்கான for sure! Thanks! By sassy I mean "Lively, bold, and full of spirit; cheeky." So I think miDukkAna sounds about right

 

[Gadhisunu8]

JayKay767ji,

Take for instance the word "ayodhyA" | You say this is not the ayodhyA of North but ayoththipattinam of South. The question is it is being called as ayoththi is definitely a "simplification" of ayodhyA for the mahAprANa letter 'dha' is not there in Tamil!?!
GS

 

[ShivKC]

hmmm!! off late , some one wants to say Sanskrit is purely a Dravidian Origin !!

i welcome that attitude and approach, come what its right or wrong. i wish every young generation chants this, be it a lie or one with lacking supporting documentary proof. it doesnt matter to me. let it be a lie, doesnt matter

again a timing miss. all i wish is, this should have been proclaimed exactly 100 years ago. if so, we may not have had a pain to read a chapter of EVR in our high school history text books.

as sh.kunjuppu often said in similar tone, 'many a times, good opportunities have been missed'.

 

[biswa]

I just remembered this..I have a doctor friend a Northern Indian Punjabi Sarasawat Brahmin old man who told me that he traced his ancestry and he told me that he has some Greek blood and he was non stop bragging about it till I got sick and tired and told him(Olympics was hosted in Greece that year) and I told him "why dont you use your family tree to get a free ticket to the olympics"

I was surprised that he seemed overjoyed to know he had some Greek blood.

This is not very surprising to me. Many Indians (both North and South) are borderline racist with a distinct preference for white skin and so-called Eurasian blood.

For empirical evidence look no further than the heroines of Hindi, Tamil and Telugu films.

 

[biswa]

Amid all the praise for Sanskrit, let me also present a detraction.

No doubt there is an enormous amount of great, epic quality literature in Sanskrit along with tomes of high quality spiritual thought.

However many Sanskrit learners have complained about the difficulty of its grammar. Many, many hours have to be spent memorizing the rules. A true Sanskrit scholar has to devote several years to the mastery of the language.

I think the difficulty of the language also promoted class distinction in India. Only a selected group of people could effectively use it. The rest fell back to Prakrit, Pali (and later Hindi) and were demoted in the social hierarchy.

Compare this to Hindi, Tamil or English. Even auto wallahs in the appropriate regions can converse in these languages.

 

[prasad1]

This is not very surprising to me. Many Indians (both North and South) are borderline racist with a distinct preference for white skin and so-called Eurasian blood.

For empirical evidence look no further than the heroines of Hindi, Tamil and Telugu films.

I read matrimonial columns for fun, color of skin do seem to matter a lot. (sic)

 

[biswa]

I read matrimonial columns for fun, color of skin do seem to matter a lot. (sic)

Thanks Mr. Prasad for the corroborating evidence.

God help the unmarried Indian who has a darker than "wheatish complexion".

 

[BostonSankara]

This happens nearly everywhere it seems. It's prevalent in Thailand for sure. In fact the Thai aesthetic ideal is that of kohn jin or Chinese features (pale skin, taller, more slender, slender eyes etc. My ex wife was Thai and from the South of thailand no less and still made remarks about my "dark" people and religion. The people of the South are known as Aye Dhai or Aye Dahm (aka the southern or black / dark). I am as white as can be and she used to call me Aye Dham because of my religion.
People from Bangkok call people from the south near malaysia Aya Dham and people from the South near Malaysia call anyone else farther south Aya Dham (literally Mr -but a disrespectful verion- Black)

LOL! People are similar all over the world my man!

This is not very surprising to me. Many Indians (both North and South) are borderline racist with a distinct preference for white skin and so-called Eurasian blood.

For empirical evidence look no further than the heroines of Hindi, Tamil and Telugu films.

 

[renuka]

Amid all the praise for Sanskrit, let me also present a detraction.

No doubt there is an enormous amount of great, epic quality literature in Sanskrit along with tomes of high quality spiritual thought.

However many Sanskrit learners have complained about the difficulty of its grammar. Many, many hours have to be spent memorizing the rules. A true Sanskrit scholar has to devote several years to the mastery of the language.

I think the difficulty of the language also promoted class distinction in India. Only a selected group of people could effectively use it. The rest fell back to Prakrit, Pali (and later Hindi) and were demoted in the social hierarchy.

Compare this to Hindi, Tamil or English. Even auto wallahs in the appropriate regions can converse in these languages.

I would beg to differ...there is no need to memorize the grammar once a language is spoken.
Just like how all of us grew up speaking our mother tongue..its by hearing and everything else fell in place.
A child learns by hearing and mouth movement and later word recognition.
No child learn rules of grammar when they speak their 1st few words.

That why Samskrita Bharati of India is working hard to revive spoken Sanskrit cos then all rules of grammar will just fall into place.

Most important do NOT memorize any rule of grammar.Rules can be deduced if effort is made.

Sanskrit grammar rules are not impossible to master...its not hard as most commonly thought but its vast thats all.

Everyone I met in India when I was a student told me that Sanskrit is too hard to master.
In 2007 I decided to self study Sanskrit and I am happy to know if a person with no previous background of even knowing the Devanagari script could self study it without a teacher..I feel anyone can study sanskrit.

Firstly we indians should drop the notion that Sanskrit is hard and impossible to master and the feeling that its not for the common man.With hard work and determination nothing is impossible to master.

Its really fun that now I can even swear in Sanskrit!!

 

[renuka]

Thanks Mr. Prasad for the corroborating evidence.

God help the unmarried Indian who has a darker than "wheatish complexion".

People get married anyhow Biswa..majority of India falls under wheatish to dark and the population is still soaring.

BTW the wheatish word is the most wrongly used word I feel in the matrimonials.
Some guys are dark but write they are wheatish.

Wheatish color is like Priyanka Chopra and Fair is like Kareena Kapoor.
BTW Bipasha Basu is on the darker side and she is much sexier and prettier than Kareena Kapoor.
So I dont really feel color makes too much of a difference in a persons looks.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

I would beg to differ...there is no need to memorize the grammar once a language is spoken.
Just like how all of us grew up speaking our mother tongue..its by hearing and everything else fell in place.
A child learns by hearing and mouth movement and later word recognition.
No child learn rules of grammar when they speak their 1st few words.

That why Samskrita Bharati of India is working hard to revive spoken Sanskrit cos then all rules of grammar will just fall into place.

Most important do NOT memorize any rule of grammar.Rules can be deduced if effort is made.

Sanskrit grammar rules are not impossible to master...its not hard as most commonly thought but its vast thats all.

Everyone I met in India when I was a student told me that Sanskrit is too hard to master.
In 2007 I decided to self study Sanskrit and I am happy to know if a person with no previous background of even knowing the Devanagari script could self study it without a teacher..I feel anyone can study sanskrit.

Firstly we indians should drop the notion that Sanskrit is hard and impossible to master and the feeling that its not for the common man.With hard work and determination nothing is impossible to master.

Its really fun that now I can even swear in Sanskrit!!

This is the most sensible post I have come across in this thread - congrats, Renuka! In fact I learnt Sanskrit just the way you did.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

People get married anyhow Biswa..majority of India falls under wheatish to dark and the population is still soaring.

BTW the wheatish word is the most wrongly used word I feel in the matrimonials.
Some guys are dark but write they are wheatish.

Wheatish color is like Priyanka Chopra and Fair is like Kareena Kapoor.
BTW Bipasha Basu is on the darker side and she is much sexier and prettier than Kareena Kapoor.
So I dont really feel color makes too much of a difference in a persons looks.

Another sensible post!

 

[renuka]

For what it's worth I prefer Southern women of (seemingly) most nations. Maybe I am just a child of the Sun. Your mileage may vary of course

Dear Boston,

In the South Pole there are no women..you will have to make do with Penguins.
With Penguins skin color wont be a big deal cos they will tell you 'It don't matter if you're Black or White!!!LOL

[video=youtube_share;1dgAaCUa4nM]http://youtu.be/1dgAaCUa4nM[/video]

 

[Gadhisunu8]

Biswa-ji where is Latin spoken? Hebrew was resurrected- and that is to the credit of the Jews who needed an identity in a world that is manifest with anti-semitism!

 

[Gadhisunu8]

I am a bonafide and dedicated student of Sanskrit. It is true that Sanskrit Grammar is elaborate and highly developed, so much so that it is a subject of independent study at Masters Level i.e. M.A./Acharya (vyakarana). As an Engineer I must admit that it is a languages that instantly attracts the attention of Engineers. At one time some 10 adult learners were learning at the feet of my Guru and 8 were Engineers. The other two were mainstream Sanskrit students.
If Sanskrit were widely spoken as any other language it can be mastered without taking recourse to grammar.
Further a lor of success in popularising Sanskrit, by Sanskrita Bharati has been done. They have successfully taught to ordinary people evn from slums. It is all about effort and application. I salute the Jews for doing that with Hebrew. the sanskrit Popularisation effort was inspired by the Displaced jews resurrecting and making Hebrew their unique identity.

 

[vgane]

Amid all the praise for Sanskrit, let me also present a detraction.

No doubt there is an enormous amount of great, epic quality literature in Sanskrit along with tomes of high quality spiritual thought.

However many Sanskrit learners have complained about the difficulty of its grammar. Many, many hours have to be spent memorizing the rules. A true Sanskrit scholar has to devote several years to the mastery of the language.

I think the difficulty of the language also promoted class distinction in India. Only a selected group of people could effectively use it. The rest fell back to Prakrit, Pali (and later Hindi) and were demoted in the social hierarchy.

Compare this to Hindi, Tamil or English. Even auto wallahs in the appropriate regions can converse in these languages.

I am not an expert in Sanskrit...But in school whoever has taken Sanskrit as the second language have scored more than 90% in Board exams which is very tough in both Tamil & Hindi...So learning Sanskrit is easy & simple

 

[Nara]

...I feel sad & pity these aryan supremacist for the enormous struggle, to prove otherwise - LOL !!

Dear JK, Sanskrit has never been the language of the masses, at least since the time of Buddha. Some years ago I read somewhere that vernacular literary works to be initiated into the scholarly circle, they must be first translated into Sanskrit, and the translated Sanskrit work must be treated as the original.

George Hart of UC Berkeley, who occupies the Tamil Chair there, who is a scholar in both Sanskrit (his Ph.D is in Sanskrit) and is no stranger to the Tamil/Sanskrit politics, and one who is married to a TB, says the following:

"From the beginning, elegant Tamil has eschewed Sanskrit words and encouraged the use of pure Tamil vocabulary, though of course Tamil has still managed to borrow an enormous number of Sanskrit words (just as Sanskrit has borrowed many Dravidian words). Once, reading a hymn from the Rig Veda, we found that virtually every word is found in modern Tamil...For formal Tamil, one must use words like நண்பன், தூய்மை, ஒளி, ஆண்டு, and these pure Dravidian words impart an elegance that is entirely lacking when Sanskrit words are used."

I have more observations of George Hart. I will share them with the forum a little later ...

Cheers!

 

[BostonSankara]

Dear Nara,

Please do! I do not know much or George Hart but I use his wife Kausalya Hart's book "Tamil for Beginners" as my textbook for learning Tamil as a second language. I believe she is a lecturer and possibly a professor at UC Berkeley. It a great book.

Thanks!
R

Dear JK, Sanskrit has never been the language of the masses, at least since the time of Buddha. Some years ago I read somewhere that vernacular literary works to be initiated into the scholarly circle, they must be first translated into Sanskrit, and the translated Sanskrit work must be treated as the original.

George Hart of UC Berkeley, who occupies the Tamil Chair there, who is a scholar in both Sanskrit (his Ph.D is in Sanskrit) and is no stranger to the Tamil/Sanskrit politics, and one who is married to a TB, says the following:

"From the beginning, elegant Tamil has eschewed Sanskrit words and encouraged the use of pure Tamil vocabulary, though of course Tamil has still managed to borrow an enormous number of Sanskrit words (just as Sanskrit has borrowed many Dravidian words). Once, reading a hymn from the Rig Veda, we found that virtually every word is found in modern Tamil...For formal Tamil, one must use words like நண்பன், தூய்மை, ஒளி, ஆண்டு, and these pure Dravidian words impart an elegance that is entirely lacking when Sanskrit words are used."

I have more observations of George Hart. I will share them with the forum a little later ...

Cheers!

 

[Naina_Marbus]

However many Sanskrit learners have complained about the difficulty of its grammar.Many, many hours have to be spent memorizing the rules. A true Sanskrit scholar has to devote several years to the mastery of the language.

If one wants to claim to be a scholar, does one expect spoon-feeding?
Imagine a medical doctor complaining about “Many, many hours have to be spent memorizing the names of all anatomical parts and the names of diseases”…“devote several years to the mastery of the subject of medicine”.

 

[Nara]

George Hart on many, many hours of memorizing nit-picking rule ....

I can attest that the grammar of Sanskrit is no more elegant or perfect than any other IE language. It very much resembles Russian, Latin, and Greek (which I have also read) -- to which it is closely akin.

To my mind, Tamil and the other Dravidian languages have much more elegant and logical structures. Consider this: in Dravidian, you can take any sentence and turn it into an adverb, adjective, or noun by simply changing the ending on the verb. Then you can embed that sentence in any other sentence. The Dravidian relativizing system is extremely straight-forward and logical; the IE one -- shared by Sanskrit (and English) -- is quite messy and verbose. One could go on and on.

I love Sanskrit, but I would never claim its zillions of nit-picking rules make it somehow an epitome of order and perfect structure. Sorry, but it's just not.

 

[BostonSankara]

His opinion is valid and on some levels I agree. Tamil is fascinating to native English speakers. It is inherently poetic due to the fact that it's morphophonemic rules are such that word suffixes are used to modify words prevalently and this use of suffixes lends itself to flowing poetry although it can often be tongue twisting at best due to this as well. From what I see Tamil people revere a skilled wordsmith it indicates high intellect, broad vocabulary, and a fast tongue. language geeks LOVE Tamil. It is as old as soil and feel organic like the earth.

Sanskrit grammar is dificult to "learn". Sandhi rulese are codified and that code is deep and dificult to master. To learn it as a second language requires a lot of memorization. In a living culture however this does not apply. Sandhi "rules" are a recording and codification of spoken language. Sanskrit as a language flows beautifuly. Because of its inteligent evolution and ability to compoud and connect syllabler through sandhi made it a highly eficient and compact easily spoken language.

All languages have their ups and downs and lovers and haters.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

I wish that people would realise that comparing Sanskrit and Tamil is like comparing apples to oranges or to use a native idiom, fighting about whether banganapalli (Alphonso) is better than Rumani or Malgova.

 

[biswa]

Biswa-ji where is Latin spoken? Hebrew was resurrected- and that is to the credit of the Jews who needed an identity in a world that is manifest with anti-semitism!

Yes, Latin is dead. That's why I said 3 languages: Tamil, Hebrew and Greek.

Yes the resurrection of Hebrew story is well known. Why is nobody trying that with Sanskrit: getting the 1 billion Indians to converse in a unified language?

Since that is not happening, the conclusion is that there are few takers for Sanskrit or that we are not as smart as the Jews.

I am a big admirer of the mellifluous nature of Sanskrit but it looks like that golden age is past.