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Rejoinder: Life lessons from Mahabharata.

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prasad1

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Pjji wrote in Religion section and my post was not appropriate in that section, so I am posting it here.

If Pandavas didn’t have Krishna and his master plan, they wouldn’t have witnessed the victory they did. Always have a plan.
No plan just expect a miracle.
Or expect abject surrender to work for you.

Let us see it differently.

Have a lot of wants (A kingdom to boot), then create a friend with unlimited potential (A God no less), then destroy thousands of people. Then rule over a country living a lavish life (who cares about the common people) amassing more wealth by Conquering other kingdoms.

What life lesson is that? Is there any special life lesson in Mahabharata that is unique and not available other places?
I do not think so.
YOU MUST HAVE YOUR PLAN (not someone else's plan), but do not be surprised if the result you expect does not materialize. Have a plan B ready.
 
YOU MUST HAVE YOUR PLAN (not someone else's plan), but do not be surprised if the result you expect does not materialize. Have a plan B ready.


I fully agree with this.

Even in the case of the Pandavas after Lord Krishna exited the world..the Pandavas could not fight with the invading hordes that kidnapped the women from the kingdom.

They were total ZEROS without Krishna...the reason is cos they never had a PLAN B.

PLAN B is important..there are times in our life that we have to face everything alone and even depending on God might not solve the situation we face.

For me I always have a Plan A to Plan Z!
 
Pjji wrote in Religion section and my post was not appropriate in that section, so I am posting it here.
No plan just expect a miracle.
Or expect abject surrender to work for you.
Let us see it differently.
Have a lot of wants (A kingdom to boot), then create a friend with unlimited potential (A God no less), then destroy thousands of people. Then rule over a country living a lavish life (who cares about the common people) amassing more wealth by Conquering other kingdoms.

What life lesson is that? Is there any special life lesson in Mahabharata that is unique and not available other places?
I do not think so.
YOU MUST HAVE YOUR PLAN (not someone else's plan), but do not be surprised if the result you expect does not materialize. Have a plan B ready.

Yes. Let us see it a little more differently.

A miracle happens unexpected and undefined. It just happens and then only we understand it has happened. So plans have no place here.

Abject surrender is made not expecting to work and give you a kingdom. Abject surrender is not a business process that is designed to give a benefit of a kingdom or whatnot. By itself it is a process and the end of it. You surrender and then forget yourself.

For a king to have a lot of wants including a kingdom is not a sin. A kshatriya is supposed to desire for a kingdom and all the pleasures and risks that come with it. To actively seek a friend to achieve his goals is also normal. Killing a number of people is also his dharma. Those who were killed wanted to kill you in the first place and so they deserve to go. Ruling a country living a lavish life is the reward for the risk a kshatriya takes. Anytime an enemy may come and knock at his door. The confrontation--either a single combat or a full blooded war with armies on both sides--may result in his losing everything including his life. That risk brings with it the rewards.

It requires to analyse the epics with a calm and quite mind and with knowledge gained from scriptures. Not with the values of a mlecha civilization.

Which other epic or scriptures in the world tells you "karmanyEvAdhikArasthE mA phalEshu kathachana......"?

Leaving aside the ultimate benefits a surrender bestows on you (for an agnostic it may be just a cock and bull story), even in the worldly life it teaches you how to get rid of the anxieties about success and failure. This anxiety about success and failure can affect your very performance like in a servo circuit the signals generated from the performance itself is used to control the performance. (A servo motor with a feed-back circuit) is an apt example. Tell me which other epic or scripture tells you about such great truths?

Have a plan A and a plan B. But design them carefully and then be sure that it will work. You will be free of anxieties. Pandavas had faith in ample measure. When Arjun was not sure, he surrendered and God calmed him down to perform his task efficiently.

So have faith and it will work for you even if you do not expect it to.

LOL.
 
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I fully agree with this.

Even in the case of the Pandavas after Lord Krishna exited the world..the Pandavas could not fight with the invading hordes that kidnapped the women from the kingdom.

They were total ZEROS without Krishna...the reason is cos they never had a PLAN B.

PLAN B is important..there are times in our life that we have to face everything alone and even depending on God might not solve the situation we face.

For me I always have a Plan A to Plan Z!
hi

i can further explain much abt PLAN A ....PLAN B .... PLAN C...PLAN D...

plan A means...normal planning

plan B means.....more adjustments

plan C means....more compromises...

plan D means.....destiny...
 
I read one interview with a Parachute Jumper and he was asked what will he do if his parachute does not open and he told he will use his spare parachute and then he was asked what will he do it also does not open then he told he will just simply die LOL
 
This is another 'muththu' from T Rajendar's press conference, on JJ's acquittal.

Amma was in prison for ten months; that is 'karumam'. she was declared innocent and not guilty; that is 'dharumam'.

It requires to analyse the epics with a calm and quite mind and with knowledge gained from scriptures. Not with the values of a mlecha civilization.

So it is.
 
This is another 'muththu' from T Rajendar's press conference, on JJ's acquittal.

Amma was in prison for ten months; that is 'karumam'. she was declared innocent and not guilty; that is 'dharumam'.


Its strange that the common petty thief might get a jail sentence for stealing small items but politicians can get away by robbing the country!LOL

I guess the Dharmam for their Karmam would unfold in Yama Loka!
 
Asaram bapu has been in prison for 20 months without getting bail, and without charge sheet. Last week subramanyam swamy announced that asaram is innocent and framed, and will take his case. The next day a witness is shot and the secular voices claim that witness will be in danger if he is given bail.

The judiciary needs a thorough overhaul, in all areas - work culture, manpower, use of technology, extended working hours, round the year working of courts.

Modi was able to implement 2 shift working of courts to reduce backlog. The present CJI is not ready to listen to modi!



Its strange that the common petty thief might get a jail sentence for stealing small items but politicians can get away by robbing the country!LOL

I guess the Dharmam for their Karmam would unfold in Yama Loka!
 
This is another 'muththu' from T Rajendar's press conference, on JJ's acquittal.
Amma was in prison for ten months; that is 'karumam'. she was declared innocent and not guilty; that is 'dharumam'.

What about the mathematical blunder that can land her in Jail again if the case goes to Supreme Court and the court revokes the Banglaore High Court Verdict - can we name it asingham ?
 
There was an alert that judge kumaraswamy will provide the necessary clarification or correction. Since bar council has issued a threat to politicians defaming the judge, and not judgement, the issue is a bit cold now.

What about the mathematical blunder that can land her in Jail again if the case goes to Supreme Court and the court revokes the Banglaore High Court Verdict - can we name it asingham ?
 
Abject surrender is made not expecting to work and give you a kingdom. Abject surrender is not a business process that is designed to give a benefit of a kingdom or whatnot. By itself it is a process and the end of it. You surrender and then forget yourself.

It requires to analyse the epics with a calm and quite mind and with knowledge gained from scriptures. Not with the values of a mlecha civilization.

.

In Boxing terms it is low blow (below the belt). You mean to tell me that Rational thought and taking responsibility for your action is mlecha civilization. I am sorry i gave you more credit than that, I am sorry.

Karmanye Vadhikaraste, Ma phaleshou kada chana,

Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani
Is from Bhagvat Gita a philosophical text inserted into Mahabharata. It derives its philosophy from Upanishads.

Rest of Mahabharata has no relevance to the philosophy. Just because there is a fly in the ointment, ointment is not a fly.
You must have faith to draw any plan, but all you have is faith without a plan you will be in deep trouble. Faith with a plan Will ensure success, faith without a plan is for looser. You had one sane sentence in your post.
Have a plan A and a plan B. But design them carefully and then be sure that it will work. You will be free of anxieties.
 
Even the basic indian philosophy, tradition, niti sastra elude some.

1. "எண்ணி துணிக கருமம்" - plan
2. Do your work with due diligence, focus and dedication.
3. Put your faith in God and sincerely believe that he will help you to achieve what you want.
4. With all the above, if desired result is not achieved, it means that God has better plans for you which will do you more good. Look for them.

I understand bhagavad gita is studied in harvard. Indian management institutes have taken mahabharata episodes for case study.
 
Dear Prasad ji,

To tell you the truth when I first read the Mahabharat..I got a shock of my life!LOL

I was thinking that I was told that one learns about life lessons from it and even in the early chapters we see a King Shantanu who is desperate for Sathyavati whose father puts such conditions that makes Bhimsa lose his right to the throne.

I was thinking 'what a useless father! Putting his carnal needs before the rightful heir....we ordinary males and females too wont do anything that make our children lose out in life..after all Shantanu was a king..he could have married anyone and big deal..if there was no Sathyavati he can have any other Vati or Mati in town..Pusphavati or a Vasumati"


Then we see how each person is actually so revengeful and full of hatred that they even kill themselves to take revenge..for example Amba getting pissed with Bhisma and vowed for revenge..killed herself and was born as Sikhandin.

Stupid female..so what if no one wants to marry her..she can surely get any guy later or join a harem of some king!


Then we have Draupadi who is stupid enough to remain silent at the right time and open her big mouth at the wrong time!
For example when Kunti wanted her to marry all 5 she was silent but when Duryodhana fell down she laughed at him and said that the blind man's son is also blind.

In real life I am sure none of us would say such rude words that too making fun of an elder person whose father is blind.

Pandavas too are nothing great to start with..the list can go on and on..

I think the only life lesson I learnt from the Mahabharat is "Not to be like anyone of these characters..in fact I think we ordinary human beings have much better qualities than most of them put together"!LOL
 
Dear Prasad ji,

To tell you the truth when I first read the Mahabharat..I got a shock of my life!LOL

I was thinking that I was told that one learns about life lessons from it and even in the early chapters we see a King Shantanu who is desperate for Sathyavati whose father puts such conditions that makes Bhimsa lose his right to the throne.

I was thinking 'what a useless father! Putting his carnal needs before the rightful heir....we ordinary males and females too wont do anything that make our children lose out in life..after all Shantanu was a king..he could have married anyone and big deal..if there was no Sathyavati he can have any other Vati or Mati in town..Pusphavati or a Vasumati"


Then we see how each person is actually so revengeful and full of hatred that they even kill themselves to take revenge..for example Amba getting pissed with Bhisma and vowed for revenge..killed herself and was born as Sikhandin.

Stupid female..so what if no one wants to marry her..she can surely get any guy later or join a harem of some king!


Then we have Draupadi who is stupid enough to remain silent at the right time and open her big mouth at the wrong time!
For example when Kunti wanted her to marry all 5 she was silent but when Duryodhana fell down she laughed at him and said that the blind man's son is also blind.

In real life I am sure none of us would say such rude words that too making fun of an elder person whose father is blind.

Pandavas too are nothing great to start with..the list can go on and on..

I think the only life lesson I learnt from the Mahabharat is "Not to be like anyone of these characters..in fact I think we ordinary human beings have much better qualities than most of them put together"!LOL
Yes we have more life lessons from Aesop's Fables.
 
In Boxing terms it is low blow (below the belt). You mean to tell me that Rational thought and taking responsibility for your action is mlecha civilization. I am sorry i gave you more credit than that, I am sorry.

For everything there is some thing in return expected in mlecha civilization. And they stupidly flaunt it with "there is no free tea party". Hindu civilization is different and I do not intend to take a class here about that. Go and read the scriptures and most importantly try to understand them with the help of what an Acharya has to say.

I do not post here to earn any credit. And who is bothered about your credits and debits. I have once earlier asked you to keep them with you.

Karmanye Vadhikaraste, Ma phaleshou kada chana,
Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani
Is from Bhagvat Gita a philosophical text inserted into Mahabharata. It derives its philosophy from Upanishads.

Happy to know that you read upanishads and philosophical texts too.

....... Just because there is a fly in the ointment, ointment is not a fly.

It appears you see a lot of T. Rajender movies. LOL. Great gloing. LOL.

I am amused and thanks.
 
My views on the ancient epics from a historical perspective is different – they are written by the winners or losers & they tend to glorify their Kings & Kingdoms.

Having said that, if you analyze Mahabharata as written by Veda Vyasa, it is a enormous treasure of wisdom !!

So my take on some of the key lessons from this epic !!

1. Dharmam thalai kakum – following the path of Dharma is the most important in life. If one observes why some people escape the disasters in life, almost always, these people are very upright & honest, follow the path of Dharma… & try not to deviate from it.

2. Karna is glorified for his “relentless” charity even in the face of Death. Charity & doing good is the “food for the soul” & again it contributes to positive karma.

3. Friendship can propel people to enormous success in life, they can achieve extra-ordinary things – Great Friends are vital forachieving success whether in the form of Boss, office colleague, classmate, spouse, etc… One’s success will magnify many times, if one has great friends. For eg, you will find a lot of companies founded on “friendship between partners” like in the case of Infosys, & many others…

4. Conflicts among siblings must be resolved immediately & never allowed to fester for life– Biggest conflicts are often between blood relatives… & they can destroy everything in their path..

5. Never fuel your enemies – always reach out & resolve them whether in office or personal life, if not, move away from them permanently – hatred is a very powerful emotion & can drive people to do the “meanest of things” even when they didn't intend to initially.

6. Humility – It is almost always most under-rated in our times. Being humble allows us to listen to other’s ideas, thoughts, & help us formulate “right decisions” & avoids very costly learning in life. Even the most brilliant people need to listen to other’s perspective before taking the decisions.

7. Duty towards oneself & his/her family/people– Our society & lives are founded on our duty to ourselves & others. Performing one’s duty is very important – our security & safety is in our daily struggles. That’s why as long as one is working, he or she will be generally be hale & healthy – for eg, Warren Buffet continues to work even though he is 82+ yrs, & Charlie Munger is 87+ yrs… & they are both “relatively” healthy & fit even at this age..

8. Idle Mind is the cause of most problems. – Issues which otherwise would be ignored will become big if people have enough idle time to keep thinking about them.

9. Extreme Happiness, Arrogance are a curse – one can see, before the fall of any empire, the rulers, ministers & people generally live lavishly, with little to no morals… & commit all sins –adultery.. etc..… be arrogant & ignore the warnings of the wise Saints, etc…

10. Finally “time has the most critical role to play in all our epics” – when things are going bad, it is better to “moderate down & not take any huge risks in life” - Vinashakale Vipareetha Bhuddhi – so one has to watch out for any “extreme risk behaviors & slow down”accordingly..

so instead of criticizing the actions of the Kings, Prince, & the people, one can learn many things from this historic epic!!
 
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For everything there is some thing in return expected in mlecha civilization.
Thank you the oracle of TN!!!
Every action (including inaction) has its karmphala, and that is not malacha civilization.
Krishna's Gita was not a western civilization, but then again ADVAITA is probably Malecha to you.
Last time you were passing condescending my knowledge as purely what my guru taught me and now you advice me to go learn from acharya. Was that an oversight.


I do not post here to earn any credit. And who is bothered about your credits and debits. I have once earlier asked you to keep them with you.
When I said I gave you credit, it was for knowledge and not monetary. I again sorry.



Happy to know that you read upanishads and philosophical texts too.



It appears you see a lot of T. Rajender movies. LOL. Great gloing. LOL.
LOL yourself as you do not know me.

I am amused and thanks.

I am glad I amused you, but if you see what I see in your post you will laugh even more.
 
prasadji said in reply to my comment:

For everything there is some thing in return expected in mlecha civilization.
Thank you the oracle of TN!!!
Every action (including inaction) has its karmphala, and that is not malacha civilization.
Krishna's Gita was not a western civilization, but then again ADVAITA is probably Malecha to you.
Last time you were passing condescending my knowledge as purely what my guru taught me and now you advice me to go learn from acharya. Was that an oversight.


Dear prasadji,

I know only the oracle in IT.
You will have to enlighten me as to why you again credit me with the title oracle.
You have brought in advaita suddenly into the picture. I plainly do not understand what is the relevance. Will you kindly elaborate. I do not have the intelligence to understand the meanings of the aphorisms you keep shooting. Please help me with a bhashyam.

When did I say the things about your guru that you attribute to me. Please give it here or at least please give me the link so that I can get back to you after checking up.




 
prasadji said in reply to my comment:



[/I][/COLOR]Dear prasadji,

I know only the oracle in IT.
You will have to enlighten me as to why you again credit me with the title oracle.
You have brought in advaita suddenly into the picture. I plainly do not understand what is the relevance. Will you kindly elaborate. I do not have the intelligence to understand the meanings of the aphorisms you keep shooting. Please help me with a bhashyam.

When did I say the things about your guru that you attribute to me. Please give it here or at least please give me the link so that I can get back to you after checking up.





One of then was
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/politi...ques-subramanian-swamy-says-2.html#post291264
 
My views on the ancient epics from a historical perspective is different – they are written by the winners or losers & they tend to glorify their Kings & Kingdoms.

Having said that, if you analyze Mahabharata as written by Veda Vyasa, it is a enormous treasure of wisdom !!

So my take on some of the key lessons from this epic !!

1. Dharmam thalai kakum – following the path of Dharma is the most important in life. If one observes why some people escape the disasters in life, almost always, these people are very upright & honest, follow the path of Dharma… & try not to deviate from it.

2. Karna is glorified for his “relentless” charity even in the face of Death. Charity & doing good is the “food for the soul” & again it contributes to positive karma.

3. Friendship can propel people to enormous success in life, they can achieve extra-ordinary things – Great Friends are vital forachieving success whether in the form of Boss, office colleague, classmate, spouse, etc… One’s success will magnify many times, if one has great friends. For eg, you will find a lot of companies founded on “friendship between partners” like in the case of Infosys, & many others…

4. Conflicts among siblings must be resolved immediately & never allowed to fester for life– Biggest conflicts are often between blood relatives… & they can destroy everything in their path..

5. Never fuel your enemies – always reach out & resolve them whether in office or personal life, if not, move away from them permanently – hatred is a very powerful emotion & can drive people to do the “meanest of things” even when they didn't intend to initially.

6. Humility – It is almost always most under-rated in our times. Being humble allows us to listen to other’s ideas, thoughts, & help us formulate “right decisions” & avoids very costly learning in life. Even the most brilliant people need to listen to other’s perspective before taking the decisions.

7. Duty towards oneself & his/her family/people– Our society & lives are founded on our duty to ourselves & others. Performing one’s duty is very important – our security & safety is in our daily struggles. That’s why as long as one is working, he or she will be generally be hale & healthy – for eg, Warren Buffet continues to work even though he is 82+ yrs, & Charlie Munger is 87+ yrs… & they are both “relatively” healthy & fit even at this age..

8. Idle Mind is the cause of most problems. – Issues which otherwise would be ignored will become big if people have enough idle time to keep thinking about them.

9. Extreme Happiness, Arrogance are a curse – one can see, before the fall of any empire, the rulers, ministers & people generally live lavishly, with little to no morals… & commit all sins –adultery.. etc..… be arrogant & ignore the warnings of the wise Saints, etc…

10. Finally “time has the most critical role to play in all our epics” – when things are going bad, it is better to “moderate down & not take any huge risks in life” - Vinashakale Vipareetha Bhuddhi – so one has to watch out for any “extreme risk behaviors & slow down”accordingly..

so instead of criticizing the actions of the Kings, Prince, & the people, one can learn many things from this historic epic!!



???? Is that all?LOL

I expected more from you..your analysis that Krishna is Jesus..and so on.

What happened yaar? Why no new stories?
 
Renuka Ji –

It is unfortunate to see you being sarcastic.. about our scriptures & criticize them… instead of looking at the positive side ofit..

On the other hand, I have deep respect for our scriptures, guru parampara & its great traditions.. & try to follow them as much as possible… learn more about them…

People come in all shades of grey (no one is perfect) & that is what these scriptures portray with “learnings” from their mistakes,failings, greed, lust, etc…

so what I have listed is only the “tip of the iceberg”, there is a huge portion hidden below the surface.. but for that one needs have respect & come with an open mind…

As far as the “so called stories of mine” which you keep referring to repeatedly dripping with “sarcasm”… I stand by everything I said..Krishna is Jesus… Rama is the Pharoah Rameses, Immortal heroes - Hector is Indrajit, Achilles is Lakshmana, Augastya is Moses/Augustus, King Ravana is Brahma, Solomon, Julius Ceasar & Queen Cleopatra lived here… etc…

Ancient India was truly the “center of the world”…. They were all “our Kings & Queens” ….& am super proud of our culture, our heroes,…

Cheers,
 

And that conversation ended with this post from me. stressed, underlined and highlighted part needs attention please:

Being very judgmental and calling BG to the help. Again perhaps from a paperback edition. LOL.

This is what is called shooting the messenger.

Where is the answers to my valid points? Not even attempted.

Dont you think you are making my words "final"? LOL.
 
Renuka Ji –

It is unfortunate to see you being sarcastic.. about our scriptures & criticize them… instead of looking at the positive side ofit..



Cheers,

dear Jaykay ji,

I am not being sarcastic...I being brutally honest.

I did get a mega shock when I read the Mahabharat for the very first time.....firstly I was innocently young then and felt nauseous reading that Parashara Muni did not marry Sathyavati and begot a child.

Then also reading about Vyasa begetting children with the queens..I was "What??which woman would allow some unknown male that too not even someone she loves to touch her even if it is for the sake of a child..it still does not sound right"

Then we read about the lust of Shantanu whose behavior affected his son's Bhisma ascend to the throne.

Tell me in real life..would you as a father behave in a manner that would make your child lose his/her rightful place in life?

So when I read the Mahabharat as a young person my initial reaction that it sounded scandalous and disgusting.

Then when I read it again as an adult..I started to view it more like a TV serial than actually a religious epic..that way I need not judge it as much but surely I am not going to base my life from anything in Mahabharat cos most characters there had excessive desire and revenge is their middle name.

Take Drona for example...his whole life was just to take revenge on Drupada just becos he got insulted by Drupada.

In real life many times many of us could have got insulted and let down by those who we trusted that would be there for us but do we go on a revenge spree?

We dont..the reason is cos we know revenge is bad..its a form of hatred and its a negative emotion and we just forget about any insult and move on with life taking it as part of our Karma..may be in some previous birth we wronged someone so in this birth we tasted the dose of our wrong doing.

So you see when simple people like us can think this way..there was no excuse for Drona to behave in such a manner.

I hope you get what I mean..in real life I have yet to meet people with that much desires as those in the Mahabharat!LOL

Just to add ...I have great reverence for the Bhagavat Geeta.

But when it comes to the Mahabharat its just another story book and nothing more. There is nothing much to it unless one is from the film industry!
 
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