pithru karyam performance at home

[vijay70]

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I am a tamil brahmin who has moved to chennai recently.

I have observed that in chennai, the owners (especially if they are brahmins) do not allow pithru karyams like masyam and shrardham ( I am not talking about the first 13 days rituals after death) to be performed at home by the tenants. This is not the case in other cities outside tamil nadu. I have stayed in mumbai and hyderabad, where people are most acceptable and friendly.

I have also observed majority people doing pithru karyams at public venues reserved for this purpose. Shouldn't this be the last resort? that is, if there are unavoidable circumstances at home, one can understand. It is considered auspicious if these rituals are performed at home. can someone tell me why chennai isn't open to it?

 

[Sabesan Narayanaswami]

There is nothing wrong in doing outside,Infact observance of the ceremonies is more important than the place.Many may argue that it has to be done at home but that has no basis.nowadays people are away from their home and stay in rented apartments.There are good facilities available in major cities thanks to the kind coutesy of ashtheegas and brahmin associations.I am sure chennai should have very good facilities for such thing.

 

[vijay70]

thanks for the prompt response

Sir,

I thank you for your prompt response. My basic question is why object to people (more in case of tenants) doing these ceremonies at home. I have nothing against people performing these rituals at selected venues.

 

[drsundaram]

I don't understand why the owner's that too brahmin do not let these to be conducted at home. If brahmins themsleves abhor such things who else will and should support. What are the harms in Pithru karyams doing in the home? In fact such occassions are to be forcibly allowed to be done on the homes [ provided enough minium space and basic facillities are available] the home and dewellers will get the assirvadahams from Pithrus, I have heard from elders. Suppose owing to lack of space and other amenities and if could be sourced elsewhere such as Gnanavapis and the kartha wishes to do outside that is understandable. Brahmin refusing another brahmin to carry on his rituals, but will collects the rent part willingly, is not desirable quality.

 

[vijay70]

Glad to read that

Dear Dr. Sundaram,

I appreciate your response. However, it is a fact that people of our (brahmin) community do not support tenants to perform pithru karyams at rented houses in tamil nadu. Even if adequate facilities exist. It is sad, but true.

Venues where these are being performed at times lack amenities or people do it on contract bases without sincerity. It hurts people those who want to follow these rituals sincerely. I once again thank you for putting forward the truth.

 

[DURGADASAN]

Dear Vijay sir,

I dont know how you said like with a few incidents the whole chennai brahmin houseowners are like this. I know many of the owners who even provided some rooms for preparing madisamayal in their house and help the tenants. Might be everywhere some narrowminded people are there. But, dont create this as the image of chennai at all. Might be you have not chosen the proper house. Iam here for past 10 years, I have not heard any such incidents. When we were in tenant house in perambur, my thatha performed all srartha ceremonies thereonly.

If at all, houseowners say like this, might be the reasosn are (which you are curious to know)

1. water scarcity
2. avoidance of overcrowd
3. over aachara requirement for these kind of ceremonies

Finally, ignorant knowledge of thinking pitru karya (apara karya) as a bad thing, instead of a homa and pooja...I accept with you that there are some people like that. At the sametime, dont make your personal experiences as a general statement

We are in an independt own-house. No tenants there. So, please dont think that am fair for houseowners...
:nono:

Pranams

 

[kunjuppu]

folks,

i think, we are confusing, our emotions with our actions.

what difference does it make where we do the rituals, as long as we do it, in good faith, and to the best of our ability?

i did karyams for 4 pithurs - one at my home, second and third at brahma theerthams and the 4th at toronto temple.

don't blame the landlords and explode it into a community grief.

there could be myriads of sentiments including our own general belief that anything to do with pithrus is கெட்ட கார்யம்

the important thing, is that you wish to do your karyams, and there are facilities to do it. look on the positive side instead of listening to unwanted and uncalled for mouthings about the glory of performing rituals in our own home. shouldn't matter.

another important aspect which i think we men ignore. this is a lot of work in the kitchen. within the theertham, there are professionals who do this work day in and day out. it also gives employment to poor brahmins.

there is good coming out of doing karyams at brahma theerthams in more ways than one. ok?

 

[DURGADASAN]

Hmmm....matured way of thinking. This is what the difference with my dear Kunjuppu sir postings...

 

[drsundaram]

I also endorse Durga's views. I think the information posted by vijay sir is a solitary instance. Normally I do believe that these karyams are not shunned for doing in a house, by anybody.
Reg Kunjuppuji's views: Though the intention is to be recognised and lived with, I am not able , some how, to subscribe to "not to permit doing these" in a house. Let the kartha decide that he should perform away . But refusal is not desirable. Regards

 

[vijay70]

Thanks for your responses

I appreciate the responses given by all of you.

I would also like to say that this is no solitary instance. I have moved closely with brihaspathis (vadhyars) while in mumbai and find a lot of difference between the way our community people think over there and here with respect to pithru karyams.

Intention alone is not enough. How the ritual is performed is also important. Rituals performed like contracts may satisfy some people but some people may not find that satisfactory. As far as providing income opportunities to poor brahmin is concerned the cooks get paid better when they cook for such rituals at home than at common venues.

Though my intention was not to speak about the whole community, the fact remains that a major portion of our people think ignorantly about these rituals. I completely agree with you about the ignorance aspect.

My point here is not to demean people or argue whether the rituals should be performed at home or elsewhere. It is about making the people of our community enlightened on these aspects while discussing such subjects.

 

[kunjuppu]

I would also like to say that this is no solitary instance. I have moved closely with brihaspathis (vadhyars) while in mumbai and find a lot of difference between the way our community people think over there and here with respect to pithru karyams.

Intention alone is not enough. How the ritual is performed is also important. Rituals performed like contracts may satisfy some people but some people may not find that satisfactory. As far as providing income opportunities to poor brahmin is concerned the cooks get paid better when they cook for such rituals at home than at common venues.

Though my intention was not to speak about the whole community, the fact remains that a major portion of our people think ignorantly about these rituals. I completely agree with you about the ignorance aspect.

My point here is not to demean people or argue whether the rituals should be performed at home or elsewhere. It is about making the people of our community enlightened on these aspects while discussing such subjects.

thanks vijay.

a couple of points though: i am not so sure about those who perform these functions at home, from a sentiment viewpoint, would even permit external cooks. so touchy, timid, and scared we are, i think, when it comes to dealing with the dead.

also, the cooks who do the stuff at the theerthams are chavundis.
a brahmin, once relegated to chavundi status, remains there forever with his progeny.

i think, that is one of the curses of our community. i can safely speak i think, not one of us, given a choice, would enter into marriage arrangements with a chavundi family.

the chavundis are our 'dalits' and must be viewed as the objects of our shame. my feelings.

re attitude variances between mumbai and chennai: different places. different groups. different volumes of people. perhaps mumbai cannot support an organization of theertham type.

or perhaps, chennai has evolved away from certain practices (not saying they are good or bad.. it is upto one's viewpoint).

as they say, 'when in rome.....'

i do not think we are any more ignorant than what we wish to be. it is all upto each one of us, in this very personal matter.

thank you.

 

[vijay70]

Let's understand the point

Dear kunjuppuji,

I am not speaking here about brahma theertham. I am speaking here only about the pithru karyams like masyam and shrardham being done on contract basis in chennai and many house owners who are ignorant about performing such rituals at home.

I believe you have got confused with rituals being performed at other places like gaya et al. I am not talking about that.

Though I appreciate your concern for women folk at home with respect to the kitchen work, if we help the women at such time, it will definitely reduce their work. This is for those who want to perform the rituals at home only.

Regards,

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear kunjuppuji,

I am not speaking here about brahma theertham. I am speaking here only about the pithru karyams like masyam and shrardham being done on contract basis in chennai and many house owners who are ignorant about performing such rituals at home.

I believe you have got confused with rituals being performed at other places like gaya et al. I am not talking about that.

Though I appreciate your concern for women folk at home with respect to the kitchen work, if we help the women at such time, it will definitely reduce their work. This is for those who want to perform the rituals at home only.

Regards,

ok. no sweat

 

[G. Soundara Rajan]

Namassadhasae.

In rented apmts./flats in Chennai, only the first day karyam (talking the body out) is allowed. கல் ஊனி காரியம் நடத்த அனுமதிப்பதில்லை. After the death of a person, that body needs to be disposed and there is no other go. Hence this is permitted. For the rest of the days, thre is no other go than to conduct the karyams in a savadi. Mostly these savadis are run by charities at affordable costs and with increased amenities, compared to flat type accommodation.
In this pitru karuyam, only the vaidheega's exploitation needs some kind of reform. Let the affordable lot paying their bills is OK for both parties.

"அவரவர் இச்சையில் எவை எவை உற்றவை அவை தருவித்தருள் பெருமாளே!"
_ திருவக்கரை திருப்புகழ்

 

[drsundaram]

I appreciate the responses given by all of you.

I would also like to say that this is no solitary instance. I have moved closely with brihaspathis (vadhyars) while in mumbai and find a lot of difference between the way our community people think over there and here with respect to pithru karyams.

Intention alone is not enough. How the ritual is performed is also important. Rituals performed like contracts may satisfy some people but some people may not find that satisfactory. As far as providing income opportunities to poor brahmin is concerned the cooks get paid better when they cook for such rituals at home than at common venues.

Though my intention was not to speak about the whole community, the fact remains that a major portion of our people think ignorantly about these rituals. I completely agree with you about the ignorance aspect.

My point here is not to demean people or argue whether the rituals should be performed at home or elsewhere. It is about making the people of our community enlightened on these aspects while discussing such subjects.

Vijay sir, You are perfectly right. I was thinking that was an isolated instance. Shocked to learn that there are more. Nothing between persons here on this matter and the karyam, as you rightly observed. The attitude of "not allowing" is not to be admiited.

 

[kunjuppu]

... The attitude of "not allowing" is not to be admiited.

drs,

maybe with the acceptance of a situation comes suggestions for resolution.

put it simply, 'so what? what are you going to do about it?'

"'not allowed' is not to be admitted" does not say much, does it?

should a renter first clarify such situations with the landlord prior to signing a lease?

what if the tenant goes ahead and performs the ceremonies anyway? is he going to be thrown out? is it the timidity of the tenant that bothers us?

if you are a landlord, would you have any objection?

how else can this supposed blight be cured?

personally, i see nothing wrong in that, considering the levels of intrusion of privacy that a landlord in chennai imposes on the tenants, from what i have seen.

thank you.

 

[pbkhema]

It may not be a general practice. But where the landlorde havei their family elderly ladies who are very stricy of Madi Aacharam etc then they object
Incidentallt nowadays it is a diffficult for a nuclear brahmin family to perform sradham in their place of residence and they prefer to do it elswhere where everything is organised.
I did a bit of examining several Grihya Sutras and I find that the Sutras prefer the Sradhham to be performed in the same place where the deceased lived and died

 

[vijay70]

If I may suggest a way

Dear drsji and kunjuppuji,

the problem is in the mindset. There are instances when the landlord agrees for such things initially and then goes back on his words. The tenant also can do it forcibly, but that would lead to unpleasant situation. Neither is good.

the only way out is to create awareness. for instance, many practices in the past, if I may quote, of sati etc were abolished only through awareness. This also can come about only by making people aware that such rituals are to be viewed positively and not otherwise. It is a difficult and time consuming way.

At the extreme end, one can also try to include this as something which can be put forward at the legal level, which will again only lead to discord.

Awareness and pursuading people to accept things positively through discussion of such issues in public forums and amongst friends can give a better solution.

I welcome any solution that can be achieved peacefully and amicably.

I thank all of you immensely for your time.

Regards,

 

[kunjuppu]

thanks vijay. best wishes on your endeavour in this regard.

please do not feel that you have only half done the கிரியை if you do it outside of your abode.

you have done the best you could, and that should be a source of satisfaction to the souls of your loved ones.

take care.

 

[pannvalan]

It is my personal assessment.

1. Water scarcity is the primary reason for objecting by certain families or the
office-bearers of the flat owners' association.

2. Next comes smoke, hindrance to others' movements especially in lifts and
staircases.

3. Parking of visitors' vehicles, including the Vadhyars/Bramanal, is another problem
area.

4. Damage caused to tiles by the homams, which take place without adequate
precautions is another cause for objection.

5. Women in the neighbourhood are exposed to other kinds of inconvenience.

Many of these are equally applicable to subha karyangal too. But, they are infrequent and rarely take place. Moreover, the other tenants/co-owners also get benefited by
a good feast, small gifts etc. in case of subha karyangal. So, no objection to them.

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

The landlords should not object to doing the pithru karyam as this is not in any way inauspicious.This is a ritual invoking the blessings of the pithrus.If the landlords in their ignorance object to this,what will they do if suddenly death occurs in their tenants family or in their own family in the same house where they both live?
S.Sridharan

 

[vijay70]

Again ignorance

Dear shri pannavalan,

whatever objections you have cited can occur for auspicious functions.
Infact, more visitors for auspicious functions so, more water usage.

for auspicious functions also homam is done, so tiles can get damaged. neighbours will be disturbed even then due to smoke.

inconvenience to ladies can be caused in many ways, not necessarily due to pitru karyams.

vadhyars and others parking will be even more difficult during subha karyam as there will be more people.

These reasons are absolutely silly and stupid.

Infact auspicious functions are more than pitru karyams in a year. Please keep that in mind.

the root cause is ignorance. People think pitru karyams are not auspicious. That's the basic reason. As I have mentioned earlier, the only way this can be changed is by changing the mindset of people.

Regards,

 

[pannvalan]

My dear Vijay,

I had only listed the possible grounds for objections, but nowhere justified them. Please go through my post once again.

Collectively seen, auspicious functions are more, but at individual level (i.e. tenement wise), they are occasional and don't take place at scheduled intervals like a shrardham.

 

[drsundaram]

Dear shri pannavalan,

whatever objections you have cited can occur for auspicious functions.
Infact, more visitors for auspicious functions so, more water usage.

for auspicious functions also homam is done, so tiles can get damaged. neighbours will be disturbed even then due to smoke.

inconvenience to ladies can be caused in many ways, not necessarily due to pitru karyams.

vadhyars and others parking will be even more difficult during subha karyam as there will be more people.

These reasons are absolutely silly and stupid.

Infact auspicious functions are more than pitru karyams in a year. Please keep that in mind.

the root cause is ignorance. People think pitru karyams are not auspicious. That's the basic reason. As I have mentioned earlier, the only way this can be changed is by changing the mindset of people.

Regards,

Very right Vijay70 sir,
There is a general feeler that pithru karyams are considered as Abakaryams and also looked differently. That is the only reason. The mind set is to change.

 

[vijay70]

reply

Dear Shri pannavalan ji,

The points you had mentioned in your post were already raised a few times. Since, these are flimsy reasons I replied that way.

No offence intended.

Regards,