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Papa and Punya

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Dear kunjuppu,

Just as the existence of God is not at the sanction of the believer or disbeliever you being a Brahmana is not out of your choice. Secularism and psecism are just fanciful veshams that many of us wear and those of course would wear off in time. I have regard for your intrinsic self viz. the Brahmin that you are which is permanent for this janma which can't change and can't be given up. I mean you are stuck with it!

As person is himself (that is being himself) in two ways: One is knowing who he is and the other is not knowing who he is (i.e. living by the sheer force of inertia - எடுப்பார் கைப்பிள்ளை).

So the next best thing you can do is to know who you are and be yourself which of course the easiest thing to do.

Actually this is the fundamental philosophy of Hinduism!
 
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Simple Logic ! Quite Interesting !

Dear Sri Saab ji,
Having gone thru the following msg along with your explanation to Shri Kunjuppu , I begin to look into things from a Logical perspective !


Paapam and Punyam are not relative to space and time but certainly relative to your actions (karma). Let's put it this way. If you help someone you earn punya and if you harm someone you earn papa. Again this is conditional. If you help an asura you earn paapa for sure!

Being yourself earns you punya. Being someone else is transgression and it earns you paapa.

You don't earn punya or paapa by praying. You perhaps speed up the maturing of your stored up punya or paapa.

Paapa and punya belongs to realm of God. It has nothing to do with the laws of the state.

If the living soul does not have much control over his paapa & punya , then who else could possibly have ??

Attributing it to Karma maybe the right thing , but there is a dharma behind one doing his karma and this dharma is individualistic and gains recognition to the time and space functionalities of an individual's lifetime.

What I fail to understand is If the % age of paapa and punya that a soul needs to achieve in its lifetime is preordained by the Almighty , then Life would mean to be a mere puppet show at the hands of GOD!.

It has to be something more , the human brain is of no comparison to any super computer so far and shouldn't there be any specific reason for GOD to have created it ??

 
Dear Sri Vijisesh,

Happy to receive your queries. I'll do my best in answering them.

If the living soul does not have much control over his paapa & punya , then who else could possibly have ??
Papa and punya are the products of karma. Everyone has a choice to make the right karma. That is where the control lies - in the hands of each individual.
Attributing it to Karma maybe the right thing , but there is a dharma behind one doing his karma and this dharma is individualistic and gains recognition to the time and space functionalities of an individual's lifetime.
Yes a person is born with a nature in him because of which he performs a certain karma. That karma is dhaarmic. Suppose a man remains his natural self then all he would be doing throughout his lifetime would be collecting Punya.

Yet the man has volition because of which he is prone to go beyond his natural bracket. That again is prompted in him by his gunavisesha called samskaara that impels him into attraction and the resultant action. It is here that his actions (karma) falls in to the mixed bag of Paapa and Punya.

You would realize that this would therefore have no relevance to the space and time for there is always the fail safe place for each irrespective of time and space in he being himself.

What I fail to understand is If the % age of paapa and punya that a soul needs to achieve in its lifetime is preordained by the Almighty , then Life would mean to be a mere puppet show at the hands of GOD!.
Not quite!

I will post separately on how the karma and karmaphala and the ordainer are interconnected. That should clear a lot of doubts.

It has to be something more , the human brain is of no comparison to any super computer so far and shouldn't there be any specific reason for GOD to have created it ??
!!!!

God I wish I knew it to explain differently!!

How about one forgetting oneself is the reason?

saab
 
Dear Vijisesh,

This is my posting on the topic of karma as promised in my last post to you.

You would agree that every cause has an effect and vice versa. That precisely explains the concept of karma and karmaphala (fruit of karma).

In order to start off I take the privilege to quote the following excerpts from Sri Anbuji's posting in this blog (http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=118&page=2 see posting of
07-04-2006, 04:52 PM)

"According to the Karmic Law your 'poorva karma' or the actions of your previous incarnations or births brings their fruits called 'karma phala'. If you were to enjoy something then it is due to your punya karma. Conversely paapa Karma brings dhukkam or misery. In order to enjoy and/or suffer the fruits of karma, you are equipped with such means as your nature, your body, your mind and your world. Bhagavan Ramana says: "Karthur Aagnaya Praapyathe Phalam" i.e. by the ordainment of the creator the fruits of karma take place. These fruits are proportional to what you have done, nothing more, and nothing less. There is also a byproduct in this: With the body the 'bhoktha' (i.e. the enjoyer or the sufferer) in the process of enjoying or suffering acquires a taste for the enjoyment or suffering for example the smell lingering in a flower basket even after the flower is removed or the onion smell that lingers in your hand even after you have eaten onion sambar hours ago!.

This is called 'samskaara' that a person carries with him. This enables him to long for another birth to carry on with the tasting yet again! That is the reason for the claim that the person is born again in his own family due to his attachment with the members of his family. When you see a child enjoys/suffers, you can easily infer the result of past karma. If this is not the case then the child would be suffering something for which he was never responsible. That is a fault called 'akrutha abyaagamam'. Also a person does good and bad karma and dies before he enjoys or suffers the fruit of that karma. If such fruit o karma does not follow him into his next birth then there arises the fault of 'kritha vibranaasam' i.e. those karmas getting destroyed without yielding fruit. These faults never arise in God's ordainment.

The Hindus explain this way why someone is born a prince or a pauper and so on. Neither the western religions nor the rationalists have any explanation as to why you are who you are.

Now let us pick up this thread of grievance of the secularists that it is unfair that someone is a Vaisya or a Sudhra while another is a Kshathriya or a Brahmana. The secularists and Christians ignore THEIR God’s unequal creation but would impute it on their fellowmen and clamor to change it. That is their sense of justice. If you are born once and no more THEN this grievance is valid, but if you are born again and again due only to your actions, then you are what you yourself made yourself to be. YOU ARE YOUR OWN CAUSE, NOT OF THE CREATOR, NOT OF YOUR FELLOWMEN AND NOT BY ACCIDENT."

Let me continue from here.

Remember in the western religions the judgement is that you are either damned (mostly so) or

redeemed (rarely so!). There is no proportionate karmaphala because a man is danmed for big or small crime anyway and neither is that judgement free from subjective bias of the judge as you never know what ticks the judge to make him your redeemer(they call it mystery!). In our concept we have to ensure both the proportionate reward and total lack of bias. The question is, therefore, when you do a karma who should be the judge who would deliver the proportionate fruit of karma?

Suppose you say "I will be my judge for then I won't have any complaint about the judge is biased against me." Of course! But then there is the bias that you have in your own favour! You could say that the crime you have committed was indeed necessary for some public good and it should not be considered as bad karma and should be considered as good karma and then you would like to reward yourself instead of punishing yourself!! Why so? Because it is the nature of the individual that he would not like to hurt himself but on the contrary would like to do everything for his own enjoyment. So you would amplify your karma as the greatest and reward yourself profusely and minimize your crime to absolute zero and may indeed distort it to make it a good karma!

Does that mean that the judge has to be someone other than you?

Of course that may clear the bias one has in his own favour. However that person may not know all about you as much as you do know about yourself and he is not a witness to all your actions and goes by hearsay or evidence which again may be biased. Again his judgement is not as much satisfying as you would give it to your own self. Thus anyone other than you being the judge is also ruled out!

So what is the way out?

The judge or the karmaphala dhaatha as we call him has to be you as well as not you!

This is where our concept of God comes and you would notice that it is different from the concept of God of the western religions of judaism, christianity and islam. In western religion God is different from you. You are not God. He is your creator. You are the created and is at his mercy. Also he is certainly not you - for he is your creator. You did not exist before he created you. But you will live endlessly after your birth and short sojourn on this earth. Most people are being marched from here to hell for eternity. You can safely conclude that the western god busily keeps creating to overpopulate hell!

In Hinduism God is you and everything that surrounds you. "Purusha EvEdhagum Sarvam, yad bhootham yascha bhavyam.." God is all, He is past, present and all that is yet to come. (viswam vishnur vashatkaarO bhootha bhavya bhavath prabhuhu) And also He is beyond all the visible and invisible world (thripaadasyaamritham dhivi).

Because of this you cannot transpose the western concept of 'he' being your creator. Why so? Because you are Him and He is you! (sOham hamsaha, hamsas soham). One cannot create one's own self. Since I do know that I exist, the concusion is that I am beginningless (anaadhi) and endless (anantham). If I have a beginning I will also have an end. Is it OK to be just a flash of lightinging and disappear without a trace? Who would like to have such a horrible concept and then talk of hope and eternal peace and happiness?

Let me again quote Anbuji from his post timeline 08-06-2006, 08:01 PM http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=118&page=3

"The theory ‘Karma and Reincarnation’ on the other hand talks of the Aathma or the Self that remains changeless no matter how times have changed and how the environment got altered. Your own self is Anaadhi or beginningless! Sri Krishna Bhagavan says in Bhagavat Gita (2:20) “Na jaayathe mriyathe vaa kadhaachinnaayam bhoothvaa bhavithaa vaa na bhooyaha| Ajo nithyaha saasvathoyam puraano na hanyathe hanyamaane sareere||” meaning “This Self is never born; It never dies either. Coming into being and ceasing to be does not take place in it. (I.e. this Self is not a phenomenal existence that has birth, life and death). Unborn, eternal, everlasting this ancient One is not slain when the body is slain.”

So the conclusion is: Jeeva is beginningless, God is beginningless and even the universe is beginningless. God merely manifests and unmanifests their roopas, the essence, the aathma of all being Himself. He became many without being born (ajaayamaanO bhahuthaa vijaayathE).

No one accuses his own self as being biased against himself. Because such accuser also has to be himself and therefore such accusation would have no locus standi. Since God is your own self there is no bias imputed in him and he knows all about you by being yourself. He is also 'all' and that 'all' is considered as 'not you'. He is ever conscious and knows all (Heis 'sarvagnan') and never away from you. Thus our concept of God alone is the true judge and can be the karmaphala dhaatha is established. But what you have to keep in mind is that the concept of God from the Hindu point is at variance with the concept of God of the westerners. If you ignore and fall into the trap of the secularists then you would imagine that the God they are talking about and the God you are talking about are the same. It is true that our concept of God is all pervading (sunnO Vishur rurookramaha) but they the westerners do not accept that and therefore we cannot accept their idea of creation and the role they have for the souls in their eternal march to hell. All religions are not same. Our religion and their religions are diametrically opposite of each other.

(contd.)
 
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saab, malgova,

i wish to put down another of those train of thoughts which have come ever so often to me. i am soon to be 58, which is way beyond what my paternal grandfather lived, and my dad was well into infirmity by 58.

so, i often think of the curtain closing time. death itself i am not afraid, though the process of dying, might cause me discomfiture. i have a low tolerance for pain.

from what i perceive of both of you here, i believe that you are of comparable physical age as me, but mentally ofcourse way beyond. this is a fact, and please do not challenge it.

i also feel, that you both have knowingly lived the life of a brahmin, and fulfilled many of your brahminical obligations, and where unable to do so, performed the prescribed praayaschithams.

in the cycle of life, in our tradition, being born a brahmin is considered the highest level. so what do you think is in store for you, on your passing on?

have you, through your readings, come across scenarios, which you might be able to present to us (whether it be chitraguptan or yaman and his kingaran cohorts etc.).

i have kept, as i have stated previously, my faith at a simplistic level. by and large, a very ordinary life. mostly peaceful too. one odd occassion, i attempted a verbal act of violence and which is the maximum in terms of swerving from the narrow path, that i have ventured.

so, please let me know what you think will be your future beyond. and perhaps, venture into mine. i do not mind being told.

thank you.
 
kunjuppu, you are a young man at age 58! So don't think of death. No one knows when it will happen so don't keep expecting it!

This life is to be used to know who you really are. Dying without knowing is a waste of human life. So pay your attention to this and as long as you do your life will not be snatched away and once you know who you are life wouldn't matter to you!

If it is any consolation to you, then let me say that you must have done some punya to live in a place where caring of the body does not cost. And the medicineman keeps you free of pain if need be. So quit worrying!
 
saab,

you are very kind. but we cannot move away from reality, can we?

one dear friend, at 59 died of cancer just a month ago. one dearest friend from college days, is dying of cancer. so mortality stares at us all the time.

i do not look at life like it being mine, and someone snatching it away. my life belongs to my Creator, and i am just a guest occupying this shell.

no trouble with all that. every night when i go to sleep, apart from my prayers, i wonder, what it would be like, if i never wake up. no problem there either.

most often, i do not think beyond my last breath.

it is just in the company of folks like you, who have ventured into areas of knowledge where these things might have been discussed, prompted me to this train of query.

thanks for your consolation. no worries here. just accepting the inevitable, cheerfully and with grace, i hope.

you know saab, my biggest dread, is that when i know my time has come, i hope to tell the messenger to take, and not beg for another additional second. if i am able to do that, i have lived my purpose.

God Bless.
 
Dear Kunjuppu,

I am awfully sorry for your friends who are meeting with their end.

I tried my best to tell you to ignore death and not think of it. It is wise to remember that if you don't think of it, then it does not exist. It is smart to argue that what we don't think of might certainly exist but to me what is smart is not necessarily wise. That is all.

Anyway there are still a lot of things useful that you can do and I exhort you to keep on doing them. One of them is keeping our company. If you have to beg Yama for this single purpose alone you would have done us immense favour.

We do love you!
 
Sri Saab!

Hoarding wealth is an asuric act. It is the root-cause of all social maladise. Distributing wealth is a suric act.
Stealing though it is a papam, still the act of distribution to many counterweighs it.

My FIL quoting from elder who used to perform yagyas used to say if one want's to perform an yangya and when he asks for material from hoarder and if he refuse it, then Veda itself allow the act of forcefuL acquisition from the hoarder.

Here I'm not talking one to one like peter to paul, but one to many.

See people can sympathise with R.H, malaikallan etc...,

The principle reason for the raise of modern culture- it adressed this distribution of wealth thru - employment.

But I still agree the danger of taking law into one's own hand. This may be applicable in times of chaos.

Regards



Dear MMji,



Sorry I do not contribute to anyone taking law into their hands to earn punya. This is a bad example.

As I said dhaarmic karma earns punya. Is it Robin Hood's individual dharma to do this act? Robbing Peter to pay Paul is never considered a Dharma.
 
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Sri Kunjuppu!

I'm not that old, still got to bring up my kids ...

On after-life future, it is all a wild guess. It is all upto "HIM" what prarbdha karma is waiting who can tell?

Sharangati is the best thing. Bhaja Govindam is another best thing..
Performance of purta karmas like variety of dhanams at the last stage of life earns punya for another lease of human life. If the dhanams are done to competent Vedic persons still more punyams for Brahmna janma.

Self-knowledge is the quint-essence of this human life. So striving to find one-self with the help of Guru is the most important thing that one can do. (Isn't it puzzling "Self-knowledge" , which means knowing about oneself correctly? which means to say we have lived life after life without knowing who we are? that's the puzzle.)

Any prayers directed towards this Atma-Gnana is powerful enough to hold negative karmas for time -being.

If one attains siddhi in the Atma-Gnana , the question about future,past present and all karmas, dharmas will evaporate at the time of death - so the scriptures say.

The choice is wide, as an intelligent person you have to decide.

As for me, it all depends on my effort and God's grace..

Regards



saab, malgova,

i wish to put down another of those train of thoughts which have come ever so often to me. i am soon to be 58, which is way beyond what my paternal grandfather lived, and my dad was well into infirmity by 58.

so, i often think of the curtain closing time. death itself i am not afraid, though the process of dying, might cause me discomfiture. i have a low tolerance for pain.

from what i perceive of both of you here, i believe that you are of comparable physical age as me, but mentally ofcourse way beyond. this is a fact, and please do not challenge it.

i also feel, that you both have knowingly lived the life of a brahmin, and fulfilled many of your brahminical obligations, and where unable to do so, performed the prescribed praayaschithams.

in the cycle of life, in our tradition, being born a brahmin is considered the highest level. so what do you think is in store for you, on your passing on?

have you, through your readings, come across scenarios, which you might be able to present to us (whether it be chitraguptan or yaman and his kingaran cohorts etc.).

i have kept, as i have stated previously, my faith at a simplistic level. by and large, a very ordinary life. mostly peaceful too. one odd occassion, i attempted a verbal act of violence and which is the maximum in terms of swerving from the narrow path, that i have ventured.

so, please let me know what you think will be your future beyond. and perhaps, venture into mine. i do not mind being told.

thank you.
 
Sri Kunjuppu!



thank you malgova.

please do not be hard on yourself. for one,.......

quote]

Thanks for the gesture, but it is not hard for me to confess my mistakes...

Just some reflections....
Many Many millions and millions of lives I've lived thru, without understanding some very fundamentals centered on the notion about myself... Mind blowing heap of ignorance, before that magnitude all this mistakes and confessions are nothing.

Regards
 
Tangled brains!

Excellent Saab ji !

Took a while for me to understand one thing for sure from your mess' age !
Loops , circles never ending coils !!
Oh ! GOD does this have to be so complicated ???
You could have better attempted answering using the +ve and -ve theory , if at all " The Law of Karma " could fit into it????????????

Alright , I have begun my quest to understand more about Karma and to make an earnest beginning , would definitely appreciate what the VETERANS have to say rather than what HINDUISM does !!

Right from childhood , we have followed our rituals , been dedicated to the procedures and practices , followed every single instructions given by our forefathers , the VETERANS would declare , atleast most of the great ******* could proudly say so !

Now all that I need to know the TRUTH behind all these ! Has all this been paid off ( if not in capital atleast has anyone got a handsome interest rate ) out of his Karma in his lifetime ?? or is everyone expecting a good share from his next janma ??????? Enlighten me , please




Dear Vijisesh,

This is my posting on the topic of karma as promised in my last post to you.

Y

So the conclusion is: Jeeva is beginningless, God is beginningless and even the universe is beginningless. God merely manifests and unmanifests their roopas, the essence, the aathma of all being Himself. He became many without being born (ajaayamaanO bhahuthaa vijaayathE).

No one accuses his own self as being biased against himself. Because such accuser also has to be himself and therefore such accusation would have no locus standi. Since God is your own self there is no bias imputed in him and he knows all about you by being yourself. He is also 'all' and that 'all' is considered as 'not you'. He is ever conscious and knows all (Heis 'sarvagnan') and never away from you. Thus our concept of God alone is the true judge and can be the karmaphala dhaatha is established. But what you have to keep in mind is that the concept of God from the Hindu point is at variance with the concept of God of the westerners. If you ignore and fall into the trap of the secularists then you would imagine that the God they are talking about and the God you are talking about are the same. It is true that our concept of God is all pervading (sunnO Vishur rurookramaha) but they the westerners do not accept that and therefore we cannot accept their idea of creation and the role they have for the souls in their eternal march to hell. All religions are not same. Our religion and their religions are diametrically opposite of each other.

(contd.)
 
Now all that I need to know the TRUTH behind all these ! Has all this been paid off ( if not in capital atleast has anyone got a handsome interest rate ) out of his Karma in his lifetime ?? or is everyone expecting a good share from his next janma ??????? Enlighten me , please

viji,

i am not being flippant here.

do you think, that the current prosperity in our community is the payoff?

after all, as an average, the poor brahmin was a benchmark of prideful poverty.

poverty is gone. we are now left only with pride, are we not?

by the way, what did all our prayers end in? was it not for the divine grace to bless us with dhaanyam, dhanam?

ofcourse we are denying ourself putra pautram. we have taken that as our denial prerogative, for having achieved the dhaanyam & dhanams. i think.

thank you.
 
But what you have to keep in mind is that the concept of God from the Hindu point is at variance with the concept of God of the westerners. If you ignore and fall into the trap of the secularists then you would imagine that the God they are talking about and the God you are talking about are the same. It is true that our concept of God is all pervading (sunnO Vishur rurookramaha) but they the westerners do not accept that and therefore we cannot accept their idea of creation and the role they have for the souls in their eternal march to hell. All religions are not same. Our religion and their religions are diametrically opposite of each other.

Each time a Christian tells me you are a devil-worshipper, it puts me off. We do not want to put any Christian off by telling them you are different from us, that you march to hell. We tell them you are the same as us but you seek to be different and we seek to remain the same.

Concept of God as all pervading certainly exists in ‘western’ concepts.
 
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Dear Sri happyhindu Ji,

Thank you for your nice postings.

My humble opinion is that not all religions are the same, in terms of theology. But they are the same in terms of bringing solace and answers to their adherents. Religions are also culture based, which a lot of us forget. Most of us follow our religion and are attached to them, not because of any perceived superiority attached to each one, but because we are born in to them and our parents, grandparents and relatives infuse the cultural and emotional bonds with us through the numerous milestones prescribed in these religions.

It is thereby very common for people to believe that their own religion is superior. Again, the cultural context is missed. I would not want anyone to change religion; this would imply that one turns ones back on one's heritage and culture. And unless a religion contains the kernel of truth, it will not have large adherents. Such is the case of major religions of the world today.

As I would not want anyone outside my religion who does not know my religion intimately to talk ill about it, I do not want to talk ill about any other religion. To me, to compare religions is akin to comparing apples and oranges.

Religion is in a person's intimate personal domain. But I understand the reason for some of us to not like Christianity or Islam because of their proselytization. But instead of condemning the whole religions, we need to control such anachronistic ideas through secular concepts, not religious wars.

By the way, in my humble opinion, Papa and Punya have no meaning. They are effects after a cause. The cause will if we follow the human dharma or a moral code of conduct, produce proper results. But then the results are in the realm of Ishwara. As the Lord says in Gita, we are entitled only to action on our part, not to the fruits of our actions, either good or bad.

So to me, it is crass to talk about Paapa or Punya, because we have no control over them. If we do, then obviously we go to places where we do not want to go as evidenced by your quote of a passage above.

Regards,
KRS
 
Dear Sri KRS-ji,

Thanks for pointing out the differences in culture (that go into shaping religious thot...), i overlooked that.
 
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Dear Sri Happyhindu Ji,

Unfortunately, both Christianity and Islam for different reasons, support proselytization. I vehemently oppose this part of their theology.

But, I think that a more educated world will reject Islam's view of 'others' and the globalization seems to have touched off a very serious debate within the Christiandom. It is interesting to note that the Catholic Church, while attempting to 'harvest' the non christian (read it non catholic) souls, finds itself being attacked by the dreaded evangelicals, who have been busy 'harvesting' the catholic souls!

Weed only grows where grass abdicates! I think, if we as Hindus make our religion relevant today to the scores of under privileged folks within our religion in terms of the caste system, then no one can be tempted by all the offerings of money, etc.

I agree with you though, that if a person, for a very personal reason wants to adopt a new religion, he or she should be able to do so. This is where I do not understand the Hindu right's argument that any conversion should not be allowed.

Regards,
KRS
 
Very Thoughtful

Shri MM

I read the posts of our fellow member's.Gosh,you guys are awesome.Paapam & Punyam exists,no matter if one believes it or not.Sometimes we sayl our conscience feels good after a certain action and sometimes our conscience pricks for being guilty of a bad action.For a self-introspecting person,his/her conscience is the true inner being,who is a witness.Its our Manas which profiles,judges,emotes,loves,hates...etc and then what others see of our actions thru behaviour,writings,speech....is another Karanam.Its like tripod functionality.

That is why,i rendered my profuse apologies,thinking i may have commited a papam to Shri Nacchinarkiniyan's suggestion to have a thread different from that of his.Not knowing my elder's in the group here,i may have inadvertently committed a folly,by my youthful exuberance!!

sb

:)
 
That is why,i rendered my profuse apologies,thinking i may have commited a papam to Shri Nacchinarkiniyan's suggestion to have a thread different from that of his.Not knowing my elder's in the group here,i may have inadvertently committed a folly,by my youthful exuberance!!

sb

:)

Bala, this happens very often in such forums. You are carried away by your enthusiasm. I have also been guilty of doing this. In other forums we have the moderators to help bring back the discussions to the core issue. I am the moderator of some of these forums. I have had the moderator privilege in slashdot.org one of the most active forums on the net. So I understand.

Here we can not expect the moderators to do that because that will be asking for too much from them. Here it is self moderation.

Beat wishes,

Take care.
 
Thnx

Shri Nacchinarkiniyan

Thanks for your understanding.:)
 
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Dear Sesh!

You are free to believe in any views BUT not so in KNOWING the scheme of things. You need to be 100% error free.

Regards
 
Dear Sesh!

You are free to believe in any views BUT not so in KNOWING the scheme of things. You need to be 100% error free.

Regards


There is a fundamental difference... "knowing" arises out of perception only...

deja vu....

If one were to confine the scheme of things to a particular thought then am afraid that it is but a parochial attitude... It is like MS Windows pointing out to a Macintosh and saying that it is wrong since the software is not compatible with windows...

Regards
 
Sesh!

I'm allergic to the word "perception"

we say the tattvam is one road passage. you say application is multi-way.

Like Apples Vs Orange.

Anyway ... you are free to believe in anything. ..

Regards
 
Sesh!

I'm allergic to the word "perception"

we say the tattvam is one road passage. you say application is multi-way.

Like Apples Vs Orange.

Anyway ... you are free to believe in anything. ..

Regards[/quote

hi all,
papa and punyams are like Newton's third law in physics..

regards
tbs
 
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