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Origins of Anti-Brahminism

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tbs

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hi sir,

thanks a lot....nice written....the story like this....muslims destroyed hindus by physically/forcefully....but christians destroyed

hindus by intellectuallyproviding free stuff....then converted.....so christian succeeded easily than muslims....
 

Brahmanyan

Active member
Origins of Anti Brahminism.

The Author of this detailed Article Dr.Koendraad Elst, is a well known Belgian Indologist scholar, a prolific writer on Hinduism and India. His writings are worth reading.
Brahmanyan
Bangalore.
 
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renuka

Well-known member
No mention of Dravidian origin of Anti Brahminism here.

So both Brahmins and Non Brahmins now can unite cos they have found a new enemy...the Christian!LOL

Whatever said and done if anyone of us Hindus take so much pride to claim refined intellect..how come it was so easy for everyone to subscribe to Aryan invasion theory?

Hindus of various caste from Brahimins to Dalits totally fell for this theory and rest is history...so what happened to the Dhiyo Yo Nah Prachodayat effect of illuminating the intellect that everyone suddenly didnt have neuronal
activity to know Truth from Untruth?

Asato Ma Sad Gamaya?? Why it didnt work.

Best is not to play blame game anymore and just repair any damage.
 
Brahmins have faced challenges from other religions such as christianity, muslim,buddhism,jainism, sikhism.

With their superior intellect, they have managed to absorb buddhists, jains in their fold by making them avathars of hindu gods.Even sikhs have faced challenges from

nirankaris.The abrahmic religion were able to absorb only those castes considered very low in social scale thru brute force . The converts carried their caste also into the

new religion they adopted. Dravidian movement has tried to take on brahminism but it has not been able to defeat the brahminical order.Brahmins are a privileged class and

will continue to be so.They with their intellect will defeat any attempt to devalue them and get access to power through education and bonding and making peace with those in power.
 

Brahmanyan

Active member
Brahmins have faced challenges from other religions such as christianity, muslim,buddhism,jainism, sikhism.

With their superior intellect, they have managed to absorb buddhists, jains in their fold by making them avathars of hindu gods.Even sikhs have faced challenges from

nirankaris.The abrahmic religion were able to absorb only those castes considered very low in social scale thru brute force . The converts carried their caste also into the

new religion they adopted. Dravidian movement has tried to take on brahminism but it has not been able to defeat the brahminical order.Brahmins are a privileged class and

will continue to be so.They with their intellect will defeat any attempt to devalue them and get access to power through education and bonding and making peace with those in power.

Well analysed. However there is no such thing called Brahminism nor castes are the making of Brahmins and add that all Castes tried to perpetuate their superiority over each other, mainly the so called Dalits, keeping their interests on agriculture. I am glad that due to liberal education and realistic exposure to human values the caste distinction is slowly disintegrating.
If we analyse the reasons for religious conversion, interestingly we will find microscopic minority has opt for changing religions for change in faith, rest are due to other social compulsions and personal reasons.
When I took up the subject of mass conversion of Paravar or Parathavar (பரதவர்) who were one of the ancient seafaring warriors of Pandya kingdom known as Bharatakula Kshatriars (பரதகுல சத்ரியர்) to Christianity in 16th Century, for my own satisfaction, I found many interesting facts and wrote them in my Blog (http://oldstylus.blogspot.in/2015/03/religious-conversion.html?m=1)

Brahmanyan
Bangalore.
 
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Brahmanyan

Active member
<deleted>

S Narayanaswamy Iyer

Dear Sri Iyer,

I have also noticed this. I am aware of the fact that we are individuals with different views. But ridiculing our traditions and practices is not correct. We should not forget that what ever status we enjoy today is not for the wealth or possessions, but for the traditions, knowledge and character. Our forefathers were respected and looked after by other communities, for the erudition and guidance.
This forum has given a wonderful opportunity to express our views on many subjects and no one should misuse this. We should express our views only on the subjects that we discuss , not to ridicule other's views. Strong words do not strengthen ones views.

Personally as I grew older I have liberated myself from the blinkers I had put in the name of Caste, Community and religious prejudices and developed only Compassion and companionship.

Brahmanyan
Bangalore.
 
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prasad1

Active member
Let us not forget that today's anti-Brahminists are well represented in this forum. Just look at some of their demeaning and derisive posts.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer


This is a GRAVE charge against some member. It is uncalled for. This kind of innuendo and baseless charge must be challenged.
Tell us the specific post you are calling "demeaning and derisive posts". If you can not then you must delete the post.
 

prasad1

Active member
Dear Sri Iyer,

I have also noticed this. I am aware of the fact that we are individuals with different views. But ridiculing our traditions and practices is not correct. We should not forget that what ever status we enjoy today is not for the wealth or possessions, but for the traditions, knowledge and character. Our forefathers were respected and looked after by other communities, for the erudition and guidance.
This forum has given a wonderful opportunity to express our views on many subjects and no one should misuse this. We should express our views only on the subjects that we discuss , not to ridicule other's views. Strong words do not strengthen ones views.

Personally as I grew older I have liberated myself from the blinkers I had put in the name of Caste, Community and religious prejudices and developed only Compassion and companionship.

Brahmanyan

Bangalore.


Sir,
You are a senior member of this forum, it is beneath you to join in an attack on members here.

How can you write "But ridiculing our traditions and practices is not correct".

Why do to claim to have the authority on tradition? Why is any tradition sacrosanct?
I expect a retraction. In this forum, we are free to express our views.

If your tradition is "open defecation" under swatch Bharat I have every right to criticize it. Similarly, if your tradition is child marriage it is now illegal.

Traditions change, that is the nature of tradition.
 
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Dear Sri Brahmanyan

"Our forefathers were respected and looked after by other communities, for the erudition and guidance."

Our forefathers, to my knowledge, also looked after other communities physically. By housing and sheltering them, by feeding them and their families, by giving them gainful employment, by providing communal facilities and amenities, by promoting their total well-being, by giving them work-skills and education, by ensuring their health, multiplication and survival.

Especially in rural Kerala where I grew up.

Blinded by anti-Brahminism and caste hatred, particularly hatred of upper castes, it is easy to overlook the fact and reality of history. As in the challenge in another thread: "What have the Brahmins done for the Dalits?"

S Narayanaswamy Iyer
 

prasad1

Active member
Dear Sri Brahmanyan

"Our forefathers were respected and looked after by other communities, for the erudition and guidance."

Our forefathers, to my knowledge, also looked after other communities physically. By housing and sheltering them, by feeding them and their families, by giving them gainful employment, by providing communal facilities and amenities, by promoting their total well-being, by giving them work-skills and education, by ensuring their health, multiplication and survival.

Especially in rural Kerala where I grew up.

Blinded by anti-Brahminism and caste hatred, particularly hatred of upper castes, it is easy to overlook the fact and reality of history. As in the challenge in another thread: "What have the Brahmins done for the Dalits?"


S Narayanaswamy Iyer



No insult to our forefathers. But our forefathers lived in their time. They practiced what was prevalent at that time.
My mother got married when she was 13.

It was not a crime then. She thrived and raised a big family and got educated with her children. I am proud of her. But I can not claim that she was a wizard of using iphone etc. Because that would be a lie.


In the USA or South Africa, the white man claimed superiority over the women, Black people, Chinese. They will also say instances of saving Black people. In their mind, The White person thinks they saved the Black people from their horrible life in African Bush.
But that is a lie.
Similarly, we do know not what was the true condition of common people even in "Ram Rajyam".
So let us not harp too much on the "unknowable History", let us deal with today's reality.
 
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Mr. Prasad you are right.

There is always a lament for the "good old days". But nobody actually wants to go back to the good old days.

Then they will lose bus, cars, western education, English, high paying jobs, computers, iPhone, internet and even US dollars.
 
Dear Sri Prasad1

So let us not harp too much on the "unknowable History", let us deal with today's reality.

You have found the truth unpalatable before, and apologised. For example over the incident of supplying plentiful free moru-neer to thirsty vazhipokkis in my graamam outside my grandfather's house.

Let me now make you abreast of today's reality.

After Independence in 1947, the victorious Indian nationalists-socialists-political activists embarked on a land-distribution scheme. Succinctly, it meant confiscating all the farmland on whose crops we depended for existence, cutting it up into tiny uncultivable strips, and distributing the strips to our labourers and farm-workers, including milkmen, bullock-cart drivers, water-carriers.

Our village consisted of four sub-graamams -- Pazhaya-graamam, Puthugraamam, Krishnaapuram, and Kannimangalam. Each sub-graamam consisted of about 200 families. So about 800 Braahmana families who depended solely for food on the output of our farmland were immediately made destitute. Their savings of precious seed grains turned into food-grains did not last for more than a few months.

Many, especially the young and able-bodied, fled to the towns to be beggars and petty criminals. The rest could find no purchasers for their agrahaaram homes. Some mortgaged their homes to avaricious moneylenders who took the opportunity, not only to impose murderous rates of interest but short repayment times, and re-possessed the security as they were entitled to legally.

Most of the Braahmana inhabitants of the four sub-graamams died of starvation, malnutrition, or disease.

Sri Prasad1, Sir, this is the known history as well as the reality on the ground today.

Please read Arundathi Roy's authoritative account, in her "God of Little Things" how Dalit Collectors were appointed to administer the land confiscation programme and how contemptuously and contemptibly the evicted former landowners were treated when they came to beg for mercy. Thank you.

S Narrayanaswamy Iyer
 

prasad1

Active member
Mr. Iyer,

I do not know the exact reason for your ancestral land being lost.

[FONT=q_serif]Zamindari system is practically monarchy. After independence, states started abolishing the system [land is a state subject] starting from UP and then Madras and so on. While legally abolished in 1950s.

[/FONT]
[FONT=q_serif]If somebody other than than the Zamindars family had land, they used to forcefully acquire from them. Basically all the ownership rights were with Zamindar and ipso facto everyone had to be our tenants or peasants.[/FONT]
[FONT=q_serif]Zamindar never involved hemselvest in cultivation ([/FONT]Absentee landlords) , it was always just about collecting the tax.


So it was abolished, may be some old lady lost her income.


I am sorry but social changes have consequences.


But that was not-anti-Brahmanism, it was anti tyranny.
:focus:
 
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OP
OP
V

vgane

0
Mr. Iyer,

I do not know the exact reason for your ancestral land being lost.

[FONT=q_serif]Zamindari system is practically monarchy. After independence, states started abolishing the system [land is a state subject] starting from UP and then Madras and so on. While legally abolished in 1950s.

[/FONT]
[FONT=q_serif]If somebody other than than the Zamindars family had land, they used to forcefully acquire from them. Basically all the ownership rights were with Zamindar and ipso facto everyone had to be our tenants or peasants.[/FONT]
[FONT=q_serif]Zamindar never involved hemselvest in cultivation ([/FONT]Absentee landlords) , it was always just about collecting the tax.


So it was abolished, may be some old lady lost her income.


I am sorry but social changes have consequences.


But that was not-anti-Brahmanism, it was anti tyranny.
:focus:

I though you meant tyranny...The Communists did this in Kerala!!
 

prasad1

Active member
Let us go back to OP.
We have discussed multiple times in this forum about Brahmanism.

I agree that Caste based quota system is WRONG.
A birth based Caste system is here to stay in India (unfortunately).
Guna based Caste system is a myth.

What happened against Brahmins in TN was wrong.
Writing against some Brahmanic practice (limited to one geographic region) is not anti-Brahmanism.
If a Kashmiri Brahmin does not do Sandyanavadanam, or a Saraswat Brahmin eats NV food does not make them Anti-Brahmins.

Let us understand the topic, let us get the definition in order.
 
Dear Mr Prasad1

You keep muddying the waters.

Ours was NOT a Zamindar family. We tyrannised no-one. Far from that, my grandfather being an aayurvedam expert treated all who came to him, Brahmins and other patients, free of charge. My grandmother used to supply fresh cows' milk free to neighbours, after our small family's needs were fulfilled. I used to be the barefoot courier.

Also, please do not sneer heartlessly and cynically at the mass deaths of tens if not hundreds of thousands of Brahmins through starvation, malnutrition and disease after the fields and plantations they depended on for food was forcibly confiscated. Not only our land, but all land in other Brahmin villages were confiscated in the programme (pogrom?) of New Independent India.

Don't say nastily, derisively and dissmissively "may be some old lady lost her income." Tens if not hundreds of thousands of innocent villagers LOST THEIR PRECIOUS LIVES before my very eyes. This is NOT HEARSAY, but first-hand eye-witnessed truth.

Face today's reality, if you can, Sir.

Sure, you don't know why the New Independent India Government confiscated the land of all Brahmin farm-owners in Kerala. Did you read that it was for political reasons -- to slice up the land into uncultivable strips without essential independent water sources and to award the strips to farm labourers, etc?

Sure you don't know about Bhagavaan Sree Mahaa-Vishnu escorting and accompanying ex-Emperor Mahaa-bali from Rishi-lokam Paataalam to Earth on Ohnam Day. Even K Gopalan didn't.

Let's not talk again about plentiful and ustinted moru-neer dhaanam to vazhipokkans during venakkaalam in my native village in Kerala.

Namaskaarams d best regards.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer
 
J

Jai Shankar

Guest
Dear Mr Prasad1

You keep muddying the waters.

Ours was NOT a Zamindar family. We tyrannised no-one. Far from that, my grandfather being an aayurvedam expert treated all who came to him, Brahmins and other patients, free of charge. My grandmother used to supply fresh cows' milk free to neighbours, after our small family's needs were fulfilled. I used to be the barefoot courier.

Also, please do not sneer heartlessly and cynically at the mass deaths of tens if not hundreds of thousands of Brahmins through starvation, malnutrition and disease after the fields and plantations they depended on for food was forcibly confiscated. Not only our land, but all land in other Brahmin villages were confiscated in the programme (pogrom?) of New Independent India.

Don't say nastily, derisively and dissmissively "may be some old lady lost her income." Tens if not hundreds of thousands of innocent villagers LOST THEIR PRECIOUS LIVES before my very eyes. This is NOT HEARSAY, but first-hand eye-witnessed truth.

Face today's reality, if you can, Sir.

Sure, you don't know why the New Independent India Government confiscated the land of all Brahmin farm-owners in Kerala. Did you read that it was for political reasons -- to slice up the land into uncultivable strips without essential independent water sources and to award the strips to farm labourers, etc?

Sure you don't know about Bhagavaan Sree Mahaa-Vishnu escorting and accompanying ex-Emperor Mahaa-bali from Rishi-lokam Paataalam to Earth on Ohnam Day. Even K Gopalan didn't.

Let's not talk again about plentiful and ustinted moru-neer dhaanam to vazhipokkans during venakkaalam in my native village in Kerala.

Namaskaarams d best regards.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer


Hope this posting will stand the test of ...............:pray::pray:
 
Dear Sri Jai Shankar, Junior Member

Thank you.

If you had seen the American movie "A Few Brave Men", you would have heard the forceful assertion from one in authority: "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH".

Perhaps some here can't either. Or have attended three-temples Thrissur Pooram in Vadakkunnaatha svaami temple grounds, heard deafening"kathana vedi" on festival days, or witnessed "veli" with 25 to 31 grandly decorated elephants parading abreast with devotees holding high huge golden umbrellas over each elephant's back, or even listened to chenda-kottu and kombu-kuzhal concerts.

Traditions do not die that soon, in God's Own Country, when the people love and cherish them dearly.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer
 

prasad1

Active member
"YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH" because it is a lie. And it that movie too he was telling a lie.
No tradition lasts for ever.
If you read any History you will know that tradition are created by man at a location. They are not universal. Every tradition dies, and a new tradition is created.


Sometimes so called traditions are false:
Truth behind Makarajyothi



The Makarajyothi is an artificial fire clandestinely lit by the officials of Sabarimala temple, the Travancore Devaswom Board and Kerala State Electricity Board (KSEB) in connivance with some of the forest and police officials. It is created by burning a large quantity of camphorcubes kept in a silver platter. Several correspondents have visited the hill station where the camphor-fire is lit is claimed to be in the control of the forest department of the Government of Kerala.
 
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Dear Sri Jai Shankar, Junior Member

Some folk are not aware that India's motto is SATHYAM EVA JAYATHE. Or that it is a Veda vaakyam. Their interpretation is: ASATHYAM eva jayathe.

Neither would they admit that the customs of washing your hands, washing your feet, taking off your footwear before entering a sacred place like a mosque or a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Jain or a Sikh temple, taking off your headwear before entering a church, a cathedral, a basilica, bathing and changing clothes, respect for authority, for elders and for the learned, most likely will not change much.

Nor saluting the flag, standing up when the national anthem is played, wearing uniform when a member of the armed forces. Marrying before producing children, staying faithful to your spouse, caring for your aged parents, your children, and so on. I can go on.

Please let me explain the context of YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH while Veteran Prsad1 claims the truth is (always?) a lie.

Col Jessup of the US Army is being court-martialled about the death of civilians ("collateral damage") during a military campaign. The prosecutor, one Kaffee, demands of the defendant: Did you order Code Red? Judge Randolph, who had already earlier told Kaffee that he was in contempt of court, told the Colonel he need not answer that question. Kaffee pursues his question to the Colonel, ending in an altercation in which Kaffee shouts: I WANT THE TRUTH. Col Jessup shouts back: YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH. When Kaffee insists, the Colonel screams back: YOU'RE GOD DAMN RIGHT. I DID.

No lies at all. Except perhaps the claim that all truth are lies?

S Narayanaswamy Iyer
 
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