On Women Marrying Younger Men

[N.R.Ranganathan]

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On women marrying....

Dear sri Vijisesh,

Once the father of a new-born child came to a famous astrologer in Kerala
and requested him to cast the baby's horoscope. The astrologer noted
down the date , time and the place of birth, and after a moment's
reflection, asked the gentleman to come after a month. After the man
departed, the astrologer's friend asked him the reason for calling him after
a month when he could have easily cast the horoscope in ten minutes, the
astrologer replied : what is the use of an horoscope when the child is going
to be short-lived? The child passed away within 15 days !

This is astrology, Mr. Vijisesh. I am not talking about karma, reincarnation
and similar things now.

 

[Ramaa]

For example, if one does not believe that our Vedas and Upanishads are not those 'what were heard' then, one is not a Hindu.

This statement is completely false.

Unlike you neither me nor the vast majority of the Hindus have complete knowledge of all the saasthras. Those very people of the lower rung of our economic (Hindu) society of whom you often fervently speak and claim that they move away from Hinduism for your pet reason while I believe that the conversions are taking place as a result of economic enticements, in short bribery of the unpad, as far as I know these very people are 99% continue to remain Hindus and I am certain that they don't know what a Upanishad is.

If your statement is to be accepted then we probably would have about 100 Hindus through out the world! In any case I am certain that there is no pre-requisite in our Saasthraas of any belief such as what you claim to be a Hindu.

 

[vijisesh]

Sri Rama ji,

I didn't quite get your point !!
Yes , Exactly , each Human does an activity or should do any activity with complete involvement and enjoyment expecting a positive outcome , pleasure , u may say !
But Nothing is Guaranteed in this Un-certain world !
Pain or Pleasure is merely a reflection of the state of mind of a person , his circumstance at the point of time of consideration and dependent on his knowledge level !
When there is a saying " Failure's are steps to success , " the pain converts itself to pleasure !
So the frequency , intensity and the impact of Pain & Pleasure is completely dependent on the Psychological State of the Human and his circumstance !

So as mere mortals , we keep mundanely repeating activities/ events / perform duties , some logical , some not so , expecting it to fetch some good results , sufficient enough to meet Apsara's in heaven ! , asap !

Dear Sri Vijisesh,

You (or anyone else) could do whatever you want. No bar! When you do you always think that whatever you do is going to bring you pleasure. Is it not? Because no one is going to do anything for bringing pain on himself. You can assert that your action will bring you pleasure (or avoid pain) but it is only a probability not a certainty. The real outcome is always uncertain as you embark on an action.

Do you agree on the above?

I will answer your second question after receiving answer to the above.

 

[Ramaa]

Dear Vijisesh,

There are two things that should be understood separately. What we do is called 'Karma' for which there is no bar. If you do the right thing then you get 'punya' otherwise you get 'paapa'. There accrues fruits of karma called 'karmaphala' on the basis of your punya and paapa.

The second one is called 'bhogam'. Under this category comes enjoyment and suffering and to use the Sanskrit words, they are Sukham and Dhukkam. This Sukham and Dhukkam are the results of our past karma.

We are free to do our Karma yet are carried by our tastes to do certain things. This is called 'samskaara'.

Our 'bhogam' is preordained for it is Easwara who dispenses with the fruits of Karma. If you think you can take the sukham but avoid dhukkam by your intelligence, you would soon know that Easwara's sankalpa is much stronger than yours.

Regards,
Ramaa

 

[vijisesh]

Sri Rama ji ,

Sukham or Dukham is Welcome !

Easwara's sankalpa is pretty much normal for everyone ! but I am unable to agree with your statement that Poorva janma 'karmaphala' on the basis of your punya and paapa reflects only in your next janma !

Its Kalyug maharaj ! Your thoughts deeds of yesterday can reflect on you today or tomorrow , GOD doesn't wait till ur next janma ! Fast food , Fast Life , Fast World , u know !

And Samskara ! the tastes that u have mentioned , can they stay throughout the life time of a person without deterioration ??
Possible ??

Dear Vijisesh,

There are two things that should be understood separately. What we do is called 'Karma' for which there is no bar. If you do the right thing then you get 'punya' otherwise you get 'paapa'. There accrues fruits of karma called 'karmaphala' on the basis of your punya and paapa.

The second one is called 'bhogam'. Under this category comes enjoyment and suffering and to use the Sanskrit words, they are Sukham and Dhukkam. This Sukham and Dhukkam are the results of our past karma.

We are free to do our Karma yet are carried by our tastes to do certain things. This is called 'samskaara'.

Our 'bhogam' is preordained for it is Easwara who dispenses with the fruits of Karma. If you think you can take the sukham but avoid dhukkam by your intelligence, you would soon know that Easwara's sankalpa is much stronger than yours.

Regards,
Ramaa

 

[vijisesh]

Dear Sri Ranganathan ji,

Agreed , when it comes to predictions from Astrology , it's a mixed Bag !- some great true predictions and some untrue one's , from Thenga-moodi astologer's !
More often , the Astrologer's are chased behind prior to marriages , for checking the strength of alliances . A Man or a woman needs to get a nod from the Astrologer and to get ,more than 8 or 9 out of 10 Poruthams from him ! for their match !
And, after their marriage they could end up finding that it works reverse ! or they need to work hard to make the Said Porutham's to come true !
It's a mixed bag when it comes to the truth of Astrological forecasts ! After all if " All that is going to happen is known to mankind , there could be no need for GOD " !
And I have seen from my experience , when Astrologer's initially say that it's good times for u for the next dasa or at least for the next bhukthi in the dasa and when something adverse happens , they say it is due to the transit of some planet or some aspect of rahu sani etc etc .. Oh they have a million reasons to defend and as we are extremely scared of Navagrahas
People who believe in the astrologer's word's need to listen and only listen throughout their lives ! spending their money and dancing to their tunes !
If we believe in ourselves , we can change our fate !

Dear sri Vijisesh,

Once the father of a new-born child came to a famous astrologer in Kerala
and requested him to cast the baby's horoscope. The astrologer noted
down the date , time and the place of birth, and after a moment's
reflection, asked the gentleman to come after a month. After the man
departed, the astrologer's friend asked him the reason for calling him after
a month when he could have easily cast the horoscope in ten minutes, the
astrologer replied : what is the use of an horoscope when the child is going
to be short-lived? The child passed away within 15 days !

This is astrology, Mr. Vijisesh. I am not talking about karma, reincarnation
and similar things now.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Ram Ji,

I did not say that one should KNOW our Srutis to be a Hindu. What I said, perhaps ineloquently was that if one does not believe that our Srutis were God's words, then one can not be considered as a Hindu.

By the way, did I miss something? Where do I talk about conversions from Hinduism?

Pranams,
KRS

This statement is completely false.

Unlike you neither me nor the vast majority of the Hindus have complete knowledge of all the saasthras. Those very people of the lower rung of our economic (Hindu) society of whom you often fervently speak and claim that they move away from Hinduism for your pet reason while I believe that the conversions are taking place as a result of economic enticements, in short bribery of the unpad, as far as I know these very people are 99% continue to remain Hindus and I am certain that they don't know what a Upanishad is.

If your statement is to be accepted then we probably would have about 100 Hindus through out the world! In any case I am certain that there is no pre-requisite in our Saasthraas of any belief such as what you claim to be a Hindu.

 

[Ramaa]

Dear Sri KRSji,

What I said, perhaps ineloquently was that if one does not believe that our Srutis were God's words, then one can not be considered as a Hindu.

Even this statement is unacceptable. There is no such thing as a conditional Hindu. One doesn't have to know of Sruthi let alone that it being God's words etc. to be a Hindu. Hindus don't have a belief system, period. Any human being is a Hindu and no one (from among the Hindus) can say he is or he is not. It is the Muslims or Christians who would by their proselytization techniques declares another to be a Muslim or a Christian. For that proselytization they need the belief system and other paraphernalia for admission and expulsion. Buddhists and Jains tried this proselytization techniques but that caused their end in this land of utmost freedom. Freedom now and freedom for ever is the motto of the Hindu. Freedom now is obtained by being Dhaarmic.

By the way, did I miss something? Where do I talk about conversions from Hinduism?

The Christians advance your exact argument to claim that Girijans and Tribals are not Hindus. They try to say that they are not followers of Veda. The fact is that Hinduism comprises all--from primitive animism to exalted Sanyasa as forms of worship.

Regards,
Ramaa

 

[Ramaa]

I am not an apologist for practicing untouchability or for the economic backwardness of the Sudhra community. Talking of untouchability I was given to understand that it was the Buddhist who first introduced it and when they came back to the Hindu fold they brought with them this heinous conduct. I am still researching on this topic. Talking of the economic backwardness, I do come from a family that suffered penury when I was young. There are lot others from the Brahmin community who do suffer even today and perhaps would do in future too. My family did suffer it with great dignity. And I am certain that many Brahmins do it with great nobility without losing their values. There is no denying that some Sudhras had suffered historically and that is why there are reservations for the SCs and STs. Unfortunately the proselytizing hoards are blaming the Hinduism as a religion that has caused it. If we accept their hierarchical depiction of Hindu society then all Brahmins should be very rich! There are a number of secular Hindus who echo the proselytizers and thus back-handedly justify the proselytizers.

Do we not notice that today wherever there is any oppression of the Harijans the oppressor is not the Brahmins? This 'non-Brahmin, non-Harijan' guys are the ones who are bada secularists and hoodwink the Harijans for their votes. When you see these very down-trodden people vote en masse those who cheat them, then how can anyone say that they are intelligent enough to conciously turn away from Hinduism for their sufferings? Take for instance, today the DMK who speak so very eloquantly against Hindus, passed reservation bill for Muslims and Christians. Muslims and Christians ruled India for the last 1200 years in succession and if they are backward why blame Hindus who were exploited and oppressed during their rule? Why rob the Hindus of seats in educational institutions and jobs? I wish some of those Brahmin secularists would come out with equal passion to oppose the courting of the minorities at the expense of the Hindus.

An experiment has taken place in the state of Uttar Pradesh where the Brahmins and Harijans united and defeated the secularists, Muslims and Christians minority vote bank! I am actually watching if this experiment yields results to the society. If it does then it should be copied in other parts of India.

 

[vijisesh]

Dear Sri Rama ji,

From your postings above I feel that you have sufficient knowledge and wisdom to give us an Abstract of the " Prescription of the Vedas , Upanishads and other religious books , for being a Hindu !"
I think u seem to be absolutely honest and right in your statement - The fact is that Hinduism comprises all--from primitive animism to exalted Sanyasa as forms of worship.

Many of us consider the religion as a " Way of Life " , without giving major emphasis to understanding its requirement or complying in strict adherence to what the hindu books say - may be because of ignorance or due to the reason of our belief that " Hear Say " about our religion , adapted to our lifestyles is sufficient for our lifetime !

While other religions have books that dictate each and every activity to be done by humans with strict compliance , we have a story book , left for us to read at leisure or resort to at times of despair !

The situation should improve ! So please provide ur view of " What exactly a Hindu should accomplish in his Lifetime , when it comes to knowing about his religion and Practising it ?"

Thanks and Regards

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Ram Ji,

Here we go again! Please understand what I am saying clearly, before you accuse me of saying something that I did not say. I don't know what the problem is here.

I did not say that people who do not know about even the existence of Vedas, but leading a way of life that is Sanatana Dharma are not Hindus. Many people may not even have heard the existence of Vedas, yet they are Hindus because they know Muruga, Krishna or Rama and they know the dharmic way of life. But they are all Hindus.

I said, those who would question the validity of Srutis (Vedas and Upanishads) as sacred, are not said to be Hindus. This is almost the single view held by all our Gurus and luminaries. By the way, I said this because you are claiming that there is no belief syatem in our religion! Our religion, sir, incorporates numerous belief systems that have sprung up on the authority of our Srutis. Even Buddhism sprang from the roots of our religion - the only reason it is not considered as a branch of Hinduism is because they actively repudiate the validity of Vedas.

When you say that Hindus do not have a belief system, you are absolutely, positively mis informed. Can you cite me any references that support your theory? I have not seen this type of claim in any literature on Hinduism!

When you say that 'Freedom is obtained by being dharmic', where do you think the concept of 'dharmic' originates from? It is a belief that one should live according to dharma? This cocept originated in our Srutis.

Please do not equate me with people of other religions who may be saying things that are not correct. Please drop the tiresome word 'secularist'. Argue on the points. Please do not label.

Pranams,
KRS

Dear Sri KRSji,

Even this statement is unacceptable. There is no such thing as a conditional Hindu. One doesn't have to know of Sruthi let alone that it being God's words etc. to be a Hindu. Hindus don't have a belief system, period. Any human being is a Hindu and no one (from among the Hindus) can say he is or he is not. It is the Muslims or Christians who would by their proselytization techniques declares another to be a Muslim or a Christian. For that proselytization they need the belief system and other paraphernalia for admission and expulsion. Buddhists and Jains tried this proselytization techniques but that caused their end in this land of utmost freedom. Freedom now and freedom for ever is the motto of the Hindu. Freedom now is obtained by being Dhaarmic.



The Christians advance your exact argument to claim that Girijans and Tribals are not Hindus. They try to say that they are not followers of Veda. The fact is that Hinduism comprises all--from primitive animism to exalted Sanyasa as forms of worship.

Regards,
Ramaa

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

On women .....

Dear Sri Vijisesh,

Quite true. There are many quacks Vijisesh. Erudite pundits live in total
obscurity. We are unable to locate them. Furthermore, there are certain
things which they do not reveal to us for some reasons which I do not
want to elaborate now.

I shall tell you another incident. A gentleman was having some problems.
He came to see an astrologer. The astrologer asked him to peform some
pariharams. Nothing happened. Some more pariharams were suggested.
Still no improvement !. The gentleman in distress was not to be seen
thereafter at the astrologer's house.

The astrologer's friend asked him:' How come, the gentleman was not to be
seen. Was his problem solved ?'

'No', the astrologer replied,' He might have by this time got used to it !!!'.

This is what is happening now !.

 

[Ramaa]

Dear Sri KRSji,

Your first statement on which I responded was:

"For example, if one does not believe that our Vedas and Upanishads are not those 'what were heard' then, one is not a Hindu."

(emphasis mine).

Your second statement on which I responded was:

"What I said, perhaps ineloquently was that if one does not believe that our Srutis were God's words, then one can not be considered as a Hindu."

(emphasis mine)

Your third statement is:

"I said, those who would question the validity of Srutis (Vedas and Upanishads) as sacred, are not said to be Hindus."

(emphasis mine)
This is certainly an improvement of your statement involving no belief whatsoever. I am not disagreeing with you on this because belief needs no proof whereas 'questioning' by its very definition requires proof.

It all started when you wrote: "My feeling today is that there should be a 'non-sumangali prarthinai' for her, just to celebrate her life as a widow.." and went to conclude that "our Shastras fail us."

I replied on this, inter alia, as follows:
"So for such of those who wants to do 'amangali praarthanai', they can do as they please, but what is surprising is the demand that it be incorporated into the saasthraas. When someone asked Bhagavan Ramana on the question of free will and destiny, Bhagavan said: "You can do what you want" with a rider "but the outcome is always the same"! In other words, your enjoyment and suffering in this life (including the fretting for a widowed person) were preordained yet we can be good, bad and indifferent on various issues and such acts of being good, bad and indifferent are our karmas that brings about their own karmaphala."

You came back and said that there are 'codes' in our religion, however you had admitted that they are non-binding in your following words:
"Blasphemy in any religion occurs when one speaks against the very basic canonical beliefs of that religion. In Hinduism such a situation occurs by definition when a professed Hindu speaks against our Strutis. Fortunately in our religion there are no harsh punishments such as ex-communication, cutting of the tongue or death, associated with committing blasphemy. That is the difference."

This only confirms my statement that "you can do what you want" and be subject to the law of karma and that there need be no demand to incorporate every changing desires and needs into the saasthras.

All the above, it should be clear to anyone who reads them, are about Hinduism, within Hinduism by the Hindus. Your third statement quoted above stepped out of this perimeter and talk of those outside of Hinduism who repudiate our Saasthras! The focus has simply shifted!!

Then you come back and say: "Our religion, sir, incorporates numerous belief systems that have sprung up on the authority of our Srutis.", in order to bring in a 'belief system' that we have repudiated. You have unfortunately chosen the various interpretations of the Vedas by the Shan Matha sthaapakas or by the three Vedantic Gurus as 'canonical belief system'. They are simply interpretations of the Saasthras that everyone in Hinduism--you and me included--can hold without being held against them.

As far as my grievances about the secularists, they are based on facts and I know you are irked by that. I am sorry about that.

Regards,
Ramaa
P.S: As far as I am concerned this topic is closed for me and I would not like to respond any further. Our learned readers can make out where each of us stand.

 

[Ramaa]

Dear Sri Vijisesh,

Thanks for the compliment, however you may have an exaggerated opinion on my expertise. Sure, I would share with you whatever I know and this forum could be the best conduit.

My grievance is that we Tamil Brahmins most often lapse into small things when the nation is debating such serious topics as Ramasethu, nuclear agreements etc. Our menace is the Dravidian outfits and we cannot do away with them unless we get involved.

Regards,
Ramaa

 

[KRS]

Requires Proof?

Dear Sri Ram Ji,

I still do not understand your distinction between my three statements! What proof you are talking about? Why is my first statement was COMPLETELY FALSE?

The problem here is that you are creating your own theory of Hinduism! That is fine, but please do not confuse others by stating that there are no canonical principles within Hinduism!

Just saying things for the sake of saying does not make sense. Your position changed even though what I have said did not change.

My reply to you originally has nothing to do with what should or should not go in to Shastras. It was because you categorically stated that while other religions have canons, in Hinduism we do not have those. This statement as you implicitly agree now is a wrong statement.

Talk whatever you want about secularists! But, please do not make indirect connection between who you believe are the 'secularists' and myself. Because, you don't know my positions on a lot of topics to make such an allusion.

This will not be my last words on this - I will respond again to clear up any confusion, because certainly you are creating them.

Regards,
KRS

 

[vijisesh]

Dear Sri Rama ji,

You are welcome ! As compliments do not have any financial implication , I am quite lavish with it and I do not wish to stay tight lipped !

As regards to your concern over the major issues , you can time share and express your views in other threads !

I am just curious to know your views about " What an average Brahmin should achieve in his Lifetime , when it comes to knowing about his religion !"

Consider it trivial , it is one of the serious burning issues in the minds of many people , believe me !

Dear Sri Vijisesh,

Thanks for the compliment, however you may have an exaggerated opinion on my expertise. Sure, I would share with you whatever I know and this forum could be the best conduit.

My grievance is that we Tamil Brahmins most often lapse into small things when the nation is debating such serious topics as Ramasethu, nuclear agreements etc. Our menace is the Dravidian outfits and we cannot do away with them unless we get involved.

Regards,
Ramaa

 

[Ramaa]

Dear Vijisesh,

" What an average Brahmin should achieve in his Lifetime , when it comes to knowing about his religion !"

It depends on individual equipment such as ability to absorb and also on his desire i.e. the goal he sets for himself. Therefore there is nothing to generalize. I am therefore sending you a private mail.

Regards,
Ramaa