On Finding A Match

[krish44]

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Many unmarried girls go in search of I-pill in metro cities (esp. the North) and it gives the plight of our society! :sad:

And ...... my friend told me that her doctor friend in Bangalore has warned an unmarried girl NOT to come for the

forth abortion; and in case she turns up again, she will have the tubectomy done

The basic issue is due to a changed society where girls get better educated and hold demanding high paying jobs,marriage or long term settlement with a boy is put

on the back burner.Most girls look for temporary fix for fulfilling sexual needs. They would not like to simply jump into matrimony in view of risks involved in wrong

choice.So they get into experimental mode. Sometimes condoms fail or girl get carried away ending in accident like pregnancy.Girls pay a higher price than boys

when such things happen. Marriage itself these days has become an expensive proposition.Many from middle class need to earn enough to have a decent

marriage.Educated, working or not , lot of money get spent on marriages. Most parents expect working single girls to contribute some money to marriage expenses.

There is no equality in spending between boys and girls parents.Unless marriages become simple and austere,girls have no option except to go temporary fixes.

 

[renuka]

Actually I do not really feel the sexual trend has changed as much...I am pretty sure in the yesteryears people were gunning it in some field or some behind some jungle shrub or tree etc and went home after that as if nothing happened!LOL


Its just that people are more forthright these days about their choices.

 

[krish44]

Along with forthrightness there is a sense of preferances and choices.

Economic independance has brought in assertiveness in girls.

Most boys do not know now how to manage the new indian women who are setting terms.

They refuse to put up with any abuse of any sort and simply walk off relationships if it does not suit them
.
Now where does it leave boys?

Parents of boys have a hard time dealing with boys hurt in relationships.

Girls mostly do not go home crying to mother. Boys do specially if they are mummys boys.

 

[Raji Ram]

Girls: ... :hug: ... :whip: ... :bolt:

Boys: ... :hug: ... :hail: ... :Cry:

 

[krish44]

Indian mothers know how to handle their sons more than their daughters.

Specially those boys ditched by their girl friends.

Mothers find matches for them in conventional route locating girls who can mother their boys.lol

They foist on them distant cousins daughters or the girl they have cultivated at the nearest temple.

They also spread the word about son in their mamis circle.

They advise their son to keep mum and get married to the girl they have located [trapped?]

Everything is arranged to perfection,the girl seeing, engagement and marriage [including the gold extracted from the girls parents and grand reception]

The marketing of eligible boys for marriage ,one has to learn from mothers.

Fathers maintain a low profile and keep a discreet silence.lol

 

[tbs]

Indian mothers know how to handle their sons more than their daughters.

Specially those boys ditched by their girl friends.

Mothers find matches for them in conventional route locating girls who can mother their boys.lol

They foist on them distant cousins daughters or the girl they have cultivated at the nearest temple.

They also spread the word about son in their mamis circle.

They advise their son to keep mum and get married to the girl they have located [trapped?]

Everything is arranged to perfection,the girl seeing, engagement and marriage [including the gold extracted from the girls parents and grand reception]

The marketing of eligible boys for marriage ,one has to learn from mothers.

Fathers maintain a low profile and keep a discreet silence.lol

hi

in both cases....in gal's case or boy's case... silence is the best policy......lol

 

[tbs]

hi

i recently joined in FB of brahmin iyer/iyengar matrimony and find brahmin wedding alliances...here a lot of boys

and gals available for brahmins....if anybody interested...just go through...

 

[krish44]

It is difficult to look at tamil brahmins as monolithic entities with similar thinking.

At one end are the kids of liberal brahmins who do not control their kids and who they date or marry.They do not care much for tradtion. At the other extreme is the

paternalistic order which dictates the choice of girl who should be considered for marriage to their sons, . The girls are expected to be conventional, ritualistic, follow

madi , acharam etc.Girls have a hard time deciding where they fit into this spectrum.

Those of other castes might think that brahmins are totally casteist . Upper caste women who espouse causes or feminists ,NB castes feel is because of their

caste.They cannot perceive that upper caste women can also be liberal and can smoke or drink.

Similarly sc/st,affluent OBCs can be very traditional, and believe that liberal women from brahmin caste are that way because of their caste.These castes look upto

brahmin girls as if they are forbidden fruit and their boys would sacrifce to have them in their families.

Most brahmin boys who are conditioned by a traditional order believe that ideal girls should shun intoxicants, fully clothed,and accept moralistic admonishment on

what they should do etc.These boys , unless they overcome their patriarchal conditioning are not material for love or inter caste marriages.

These are the ones who end up in divorce court after marrying modern educated working girls mostly

 

[krish44]

Recently I came across a SC/ST girl from rajasthan who has married a brahmin from bihar.

She says her family [who are well off] did not welcome this alliance . They are traditional. The boy from a economically not so well off family virtually chased her and

married her.Now the brahmin is coming to terms with her family and trying to adjust to their lifestyle.

They have been married for 25 years.Both are academics.

The girl is a first generation learner studied in hindi medium and writing her thesis on education in hindi.She presented a paper in international conference in beijing

in hindi with english PPTs .

Would any tamil brahmin dare to present a paper in Tamil in any international conference on any subject.?

I admired her spirit.

Most have notions that only brahmins can be traditional and others are after them.

It is now both ways.

 

[Vaagmi]

1)It is difficult to look at tamil brahmins as monolithic entities with similar thinking.

2)At one end are the kids of liberal brahmins who do not control their kids and who they date or marry.They do not care much for tradtion.

3)At the other extreme is the paternalistic order which dictates the choice of girl who should be considered for marriage to their sons, . The girls are expected to be conventional, ritualistic, follow madi , acharam etc.Girls have a hard time deciding where they fit into this spectrum.

4)Those of other castes might think that brahmins are totally casteist . Upper caste women who espouse causes or feminists ,NB castes feel is because of their caste.They cannot perceive that upper caste women can also be liberal and can smoke or drink.

5)Similarly sc/st,affluent OBCs can be very traditional, and believe that liberal women from brahmin caste are that way because of their caste.These castes look upto brahmin girls as if they are forbidden fruit and their boys would sacrifce to have them in their families.

6)Most brahmin boys who are conditioned by a traditional order believe that ideal girls should shun intoxicants, fully clothed,and accept moralistic admonishment on what they should do etc.These boys , unless they overcome their patriarchal conditioning are not material for love or inter caste marriages.These are the ones who end up in divorce court after marrying modern educated working girls mostly

Numbers given for convenience of reference:

1) No social grouping is monolithic for that matter. They are monolithic in only their common cultural traits and common community interest.

2) They are parents who think they have no duty to their children except giving birth and bringing up upto teenage. ஈன்று புறந்தருதல் என் தலைக்கடனே .

3) Yes. This group looks for girls who will fit into the family smoothly without conflicts. And you have left out another group which is neutral. This group is not very much into madi acharam etc., but would certainly like their DOL to be a non-drinker, non-smoker, pure veg etc., so that the values do not clash. They are liberal with dress, spending money enjoying the life etc., These are the people who make up the majority of TBs.

4) Do not understand what is conveyed. So leaving without comment.

5) LOL.

6) This is one-sided. It assumes boys are traditional whereas girls are also traditional. They too have expectations like their boy friend not drinking like a fish to come home reeking of alcohol. etc.,

The biggest head ache for brahmin community is the oldies lecturing about being modern. If they leave boys alone they will try everything exotic in the world and get back to brahmin way of life quietly and unobtrusively. If they leave the girls alone, they will marry a boy who is having brahmin values after learning about others. But they wont leave these boys and girls alone. Every now and then they will come here to display their shining "wisdom" and goad on boys to go and drink and smoke and eat non veg and ask girls to wear bikinis at home and nothing in office and go about having drinks in hotels with NB boys and have no qualms about going to bed with any one any number of times. And intelligent TB boys and girls are watching the fun with a chuckle while stupid TB girls and boys find a kindred soul in them.

LOL.

 

[renuka]

Recently I came across a SC/ST girl from rajasthan who has married a brahmin from bihar.

She says her family [who are well off] did not welcome this alliance . They are traditional. The boy from a economically not so well off family virtually chased her and

married her.Now the brahmin is coming to terms with her family and trying to adjust to their lifestyle.

They have been married for 25 years.Both are academics.

The girl is a first generation learner studied in hindi medium and writing her thesis on education in hindi.She presented a paper in international conference in beijing

in hindi with english PPTs .

Would any tamil brahmin dare to present a paper in Tamil in any international conference on any subject.?

I admired her spirit.

Most have notions that only brahmins can be traditional and others are after them.

It is now both ways.

Dear Krish ji,

Back in the 1990's in my college everyone was chasing everyone.

There were hardly any same caste couples.

Many couples were not even same race..even Indian Hindu girls were dating Middle Eastern Guys.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

The biggest head ache for brahmin community is the oldies lecturing about being modern.
LOL.

Well said Sir,
This member who appears to be virtually free with no other useful job to do, has developed a passion to come here and open a thread on Matching horoscope, and other topics related to same issue but in different captions.

He is doing that untiringly and at times some of his texts are something like poisoning young minds.
Men with superficial knowledge come here to display their intellectual ability but ultimately only score pathetic points.

If they leave boys alone they will try everything exotic in the world and get back to brahmin way
of life quietly and unobtrusively.
If they leave the girls alone, they will marry a boy who is having brahmin values after learning about others. .

You are right Sir.

If they leave the boys and girls, these boys and girls who are adults have fair judgement and decide better, chose good options using their own discretion.

But they wont leave these boys and girls alone. Every now and then they will come here to display their shining "wisdom" and goad on boys to go and drink and smoke and eat non veg and ask girls to wear bikinis at home and nothing in office and go about having drinks in hotels with NB boys and have no qualms about going to bed with any one any number of times. .

This is what happening in this Forum as a matter of routine nowadays. Some find pleasure in discussing the same issue again and again.

Some with troubled conscience seems to enjoy with such threads and their ammunition will be free expression of thought. LOL

And intelligent TB boys and girls are watching the fun with a chuckle while stupid TB girls and boys find a kindred soul in them.
.

I enjoyed this.

 

[krish44]

Dear vaagmiji
At last I have managed to get a response .I was putting to test the tolerance level of members here.

Regards point 3. above in your post, There is a possibility that that a sizeable chunk though not believing in acharam etc still would prefer their children to be non drinkers, non

smokers and pure veg.In most brahmin matrimonial advts , most state these as preferences.However many accept social drinking[ie outside the home at office

parties etc for boy if not girls in case they find the boy has good edu and professional qualification.Also most boys parents bluff regarding these in responses and do

not let out that their boys and sometimes girls drink or eat non veg [at least eggetarian].I have not heard anyone break up because the boy takes non veg

sometimes outside the home or comes home sozzled at a party.Maximum it ends up in wife pulling husbands ears and extracting promise for the future normally

broken.Only in case of drunkards and violence women think of calling it off.[normally brahmin boys are non violent]. What causes break ups more are false

educational or professional info[pay etc] or values of in laws clashing with the girl/boy.

These days girls/boys are far more tolerant of each others unacceptable preferances regarding smoke,drink or vegetarianism.

Parents are not mostly responsible for break ups much in educated class.It is the assertiveness of the modern working girl and setting of terms to husband that

causes splits.

 

[krish44]

Dear Krish ji,

Back in the 1990's in my college everyone was chasing everyone.

There were hardly any same caste couples.

Many couples were not even same race..even Indian Hindu girls were dating Middle Eastern Guys.

You know renukaji, many brahmin parents tell their children that if they have to get into relationships with the other sex,pl restrict to forward caste.

And then it is a matter of supply and demand as reservation policy has ensured that not many forward castes are admitted to Govt engg and medical colleges.

In IITs of course, only recently reservation for OBC etc are getting enforced. Since these are national institutes, and girls are in short supply , most girls find a match.

Here these realise that anyway they are getting out of the country after degree where caste or language do not count for much.

 

[subharama]

Finally marriage has a spiritual bond has gone.Now it is more of a convenience and adjustment of boys and girls whose main motive is to live prosperous and beget children instead of following any dharma.The only dharma is sex and money.If it is lacking , only wickedness will prevail. They are not bothered by their future of their children or about the elders but only about their selfish gratifying motives.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear vaagmiji
At last I have managed to get a response .I was putting to test the tolerance level of members here.

Krishji, I do not understand why should you test the tolerance level of members at all? It is not funny, any way.

Regards point 3. above in your post, There is a possibility that that a sizeable chunk though not believing in acharam etc still would prefer their children to be non drinkers, non smokers and pure veg.In most brahmin matrimonial advts , most state these as preferences.However many accept social drinking[ie outside the home at office parties etc for boy if not girls in case they find the boy has good edu and professional qualification.Also most boys parents bluff regarding these in responses and do not let out that their boys and sometimes girls drink or eat non veg [at least eggetarian].I have not heard anyone break up because the boy takes non veg sometimes outside the home or comes home sozzled at a party.Maximum it ends up in wife pulling husbands ears and extracting promise for the future normally broken.Only in case of drunkards and violence women think of calling it off.[normally brahmin boys are non violent]. What causes break ups more are false educational or professional info[pay etc] or values of in laws clashing with the girl/boy.

Most of TB girls have a dislike for drinking, smoking and non-veg stuff. There are exceptions and these exceptions are many a time from the families of super rich TBs in Tamilnadu or from the TBs living in cities outside Tamilnadu. Perhaps the impinging cultural values are pretty strong in those environments and these people easily give in under pressure. Once father and mother have diluted their value system it just further gets diluted when it comes to daughters and sons.

Social drinking is just nonsense. It is a word with which one deludes oneself. Drinking should be carefully avoided like plague as otherwise it is habit forming and the habit is the most obnoxious. And smoking is also obnoxious. Edu. and pro. qualifications do not compensate for good habits and girls know this. Only stupid girls fall for smoking and drinking heroes. If a girl comes to know of these habits in her husband after marriage only, it is better for her to ask for a divorce. It is a lifetime nightmare living with a fellow who smells of alcohol or nicotine 24x7. Girls with impeccable values do seek divorce when they come under the tyranny of such husbands. These days they just do not bother to wait because they are financially independent. In laws are only in the periphery. A matured and well educated and employed girl knows how to manage her in-laws. And the in-laws too know their lakshman rekha with such girls.

These days girls/boys are far more tolerant of each others unacceptable preferances regarding smoke,drink or vegetarianism.

No. Your info is wrong.

Parents are not mostly responsible for break ups much in educated class.It is the assertiveness of the modern working girl and setting of terms to husband that causes splits.

Only when the possessivenes of the in-laws gets out of hand, the fireworks start. Till then it is just coexistence indo-pak style (both are nuclear armed and each can blow the other out of the face of the earth and so just keep sabre rattling without crossing limits).

LOL.

 

[krish44]

The incidence of brahmin girls approaching courts for divorce is ever increasing.

I have not come across a case where a girl has asked for separation due to husband smoking or consuming non veg items. Excessive drinking and domestic violence -

yes. Only a small fringe gets into this extremist mode.Most value marriage and would not easily break it.

Perhaps the circles we move -I am in northern metro in touch with second generation born and brought up here. In terms of observance of rituals or culture , we

retain what is convenient and /or possible in our multi caste,religious environment.

Our women dismiss the issue of smoke,drink or vegetarianism as trivial if it is carried out outside home if it is off and on.

So most observe this discipline.

Anything in moderation appears to be fine with them.

Similarly most brahmin marriage break ups are increasingly are not due to inlaws. There is minor friction which gets resolved by staying separately from them.Also

inlaws are the wronged parties mostly due to the educated working DIL asserting her rights over husband. In laws mostly get sidelined and are at the mercy of their

DILs.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

'Social drinking' is accepted by many tambrahm girls and you can see it if you surf through the matrimonial sites!

I too wonder why they allow drinking even occasionally.

BTW, many tambrahm females living in the U S of A are not shy to hug other males or to have a sip of hot drinks in parties.

I was taken aback by this behaviour during my first visit! :shocked:

 

[Raji Ram]

There was one arranged marriage for a girl in our extended family and both sides were elated with their choice.

After a lavish wedding, the girl came to know that the mother in law, who was a working lady, will never cook and each

one of the members go out to take food from a restaurant of their liking. Though the girl was NOT forced to cook or clean,

she opted for a divorce because the mother in law did NOT pack and give her home made lunch. (The girls family is very

orthodox and her parents do poojA every morning, before leaving for work). Yeah! Tambrahm girls are brave!

P.S: After divorce, she got an unmarried guy as her partner and lives happily with him, outside Sing. Chennai.

 

[renuka]

There was one arranged marriage for a girl in our extended family and both sides were elated with their choice.

After a lavish wedding, the girl came to know that the mother in law, who was a working lady, will never cook and each

one of the members go out to take food from a restaurant of their liking. Though the girl was NOT forced to cook or clean,

she opted for a divorce because the mother in law did NOT pack and give her home made lunch. (The girls family is very

orthodox and her parents do poojA every morning, before leaving for work). Yeah! Tambrahm girls are brave!

P.S: After divorce, she got an unmarried guy as her partner and lives happily with him, outside Sing. Chennai.

???

I dont believe this.

Why couldnt she make her own food?

All of us also work yet we cook and pack our own lunch.

I dont believe a person can divorce on such trivial grounds.

OMG! This is stupidity...if the girls parents are really orthodox how come she was not orthodox enough to cook her own food and not depend on MIL to pack her lunch.


This is not being brave RR Ji...this is plain stupidity.

A brave girl would have cooked her own lunch and not divorce for such stupid reasons.

I cant imagine this...I cook and do some cleaning before going to work..so many working women do this here.

I feel may be there is some other reason..may be she fell in love with that unmarried guy or may be that unmarried guy was her ex boyfriend and she went back to him.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

That girl was not interested in cooking and always her family was supporting her ideas! But still, I too feel that 'not getting

the packed food' would have been a reason for the divorce. The family might have hidden some more valid reasons from us.

BTW, that unmarried guy was not her boy friend and the alliance came through one of the well wishers of her family.

Anyway, all is well that ends well!

 

[krish44]

There is interesting work on Tamil brahmins -A doctoral thesis byC.J. Fuller Professor LSE and Haripriya Narasimhan on tamil brahmins which has come out in Book form entitled

'Tamil brahmins-The making of a middle class caste'.The transformation of the brahmins from agrarian community in villages to metro based community becoming

bureaucrats in central and state govt and later turning into engg and IT technology professionals dispersing into metro cities of india and abroad is well brought out

The book is worth a read.Even this kind of research work by an indian research scholar requires guidance from a foreign professor.

some snippets
1. Migration of brahmins to cities like bombay , delhi and other northern towns was because of reservation policies of state govt and TBs turned to central govt , PSU

and banks.IT sector further fuelled migration to bangalore , US and other foreign countries.

2. There is near parity of genders in brahmin community.mainly due to female education and employment in IT sector.Still they have to face competing pressure of

family,career ,unequal division of domestic labour and more moral surveillance.

3.Most brahmins having got urbanised know little about rural way of life. The chennai brahmins are a mix if traditional and modern. Bangalore and mumbai are

inimitably modern and US is thoroughly ultra modern.Select brahmins living in these cities say that they prefer to stay there due to oppurtunities and liberties

available.
4. Brahmins consider themselves as custodians of sanskritised hinduism and temple,domestic worship, carnatic music and bharatnatyam are vital components of this

tradition.

This book is worth reading.

 

[krish44]

TB in chennai suffer from an identity crisis. They alternate between states of tradition and modernity.When they find those fro other states like bangalore, bombay or delhi or

abroad enjoy the liberties there[specially educated young women face this issue more], they start aspiring to get away from chennai at the earliest and head to these

places citing further education, employment as the reasons.They also prefer to find a match for themselves there exercising their right and freedom of choice.

More enterprising go for temporary fixes as a way out.They go over board also in genuinely exercising their individual right and freedom.

 

[mskmoorthy]

Here is a detailed review by V. Sriram of the book Tamil Brahmans THE MAKING OF A MIDDLE-CLASS CASTE by CJ Fuller and Haripriya Narasimhan - University of Chicago press ( http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/T/bo18241312.html )

https://vsrirams.wordpress.com/2015/08/21/tamil-brahmins-are-unlikely-to-fade-away/

Title of Sriram;s review is Tamil Brahmins are unlikely to Fade Away! This review appeared in Vipradwani: A Multi Cultural Monthly of Kerala Brahmana Sabha, Thiruvananthapuram, Vol – 3, Issue – 13, August 2015

 

[krish44]

In social sites patronised by youngsters in india, most believe that arranged marriages are for the dumb guys and gals.

It is the done thing to date at least after reaching college.

Not having a GF or BF and concentrating on academics alone makes one a pariah.

All avoid these types .

Back benches in classes are for the worldly wise.

After a late evening outing with whoever of other sex willing to jump over hostel walls, best one can do to copy the assignment for next day deadline from the padips

-normally brahmin boys with unkempt hair and thick soda bottle specs.

Many who date are normally well rounded individuals who make a success of everything except studies.

In delh univ.i , social types join law faculty or dept of buddhist studies.[buddhist studies give max free time for other activities.]


All winners in student union elections are from these fields.

Law faculty has produced cabinet secretaries , ministers in central govt.

Who said there is future only in engg and IT?

Top film actors ,cricketers, politicians in india are from these depts.