Not comfortable

[H.Krishnamurthy]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

Sorry Mr. Kunjuppu sir,
I think I have not made my point clear.
It is clear in our day to day life that when ever we see a strange girl like newly married Nattu ponnu DIL of a house. When sombody ask us it is normal to say that Ponnu mahalakshmi yattam irukka and not ponnu Kali yattam irukka or Durgaiyattam irukka.
The next question will be Veetai eppadi vechundu irukka If the house is good we say it as Veedu Kili konjaradhu and not veedu Kakka konjaradhu or Kurvi konjaradhu. Mean to say that Kili is superior to Kakka and Kurvi is it ? no I have no answer for this.
My intention was very clear like small small things when we were kids are missing in new era.
Like Kallu slate Balappa kuchi adhulayum Maa Bulbam of 1 inch in length in a manja pai .
Later with a Thagara slate. Ask the younger generation they have not heard of these things.
That too we used to make Home work in these Slates and hold the slate in Right hand and the manja pai on left shoulder bcoz the home work will get erased when dumped in the bag and echi thottu azhikaradhu whenever a mistake is made.
My post was only in this line about the Dress code and not to degrade the Gender .
Hope I am clear and forgive me if I have crossed my limit.

HK,


i would caution against moving into the realm of religion and 'mahalakshmi' per se re our girl's dresses. to me it is discomforting for i think this may reveal deep perversion, to deify our womenfolk, and indirectly cause abuse. our history is full of such instances, where we say someone has a 'lakshmi kaLai' and put them on a pedestal.

the next thing that happens, is the lady does something which is not quite mahalakshmiesque from a male viewpoint, and the idol comes crashing to the ground in pieces.

i think, we need to consider women as our equals to men. they are no different in their feelings, skillsets or ability to handle life. they are not puppets or toys, who should dress up in a particular way, to satisfy the male yearning for 'mahalakshmi' syndrome, and eventually be at the receiving end of our frustrations and prejudices.

have you noticed, that not one post, puts equal emphasis on male dresses - personally i think tight jeans, with focus on the enhancement of the crotch, more obscene and telling, than any female garment that i have seen. also, it is harmful to the procrreative organ, as i understand, it damages the sperm count.

let us get off from eulogizing female clothing or setting standards to satisfy our lecherous instincts. thank you.

please treat this post as a caution, meant for the general public, and not an indictment of you. i hope you dont mind.

 

[prasad1]

In the world it was customary to pay compliments to a lady, baby, dog, car, house, etc. Things change from place to place and in time. Now people even compliment men on their suit or tie. Recognition is a form of flattery. I think it is still alright to pay a carefully worded compliment.

 

[itsmesiva]

Just some thoughts (ONLY in the intent of humor):

1. Mahalakshmi madhiri eppavum heavily adorned in jewels irundhaa yaaraala maintain panna mudiyum?
2. The concept of "homely" girls is becoming analogous to "organic" food.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

In some house, when elder sister gets married and undergoes untold misery
or troubles either owing to dowry issue or m-in-law/s-in-law's provocations
some younger girls feel the other way. The younger ones sometimes feel
that father having spent so much of money for the wedding of the elder one,
they are not comfortable at times. This may be one of the reasons for the
younger ones to choose their companion either while in the College or during
their profession/employment status.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[kunjuppu]

siva,

i could never understand why tambrams always look for 'homely' girls. here is the dictionary explanation

Not attractive or good-looking: a homely child.
Lacking elegance or refinement: homely furniture.
Of a simple or unpretentious nature; plain: homely truths.

1. A word that describes people lacking in social graces and taste.

2. An adjective for objects that no one could find appealling except ironically.

Urban Dictionary: homely

 

[renuka]

siva,

i could never understand why tambrams always look for 'homely' girls. here is the dictionary explanation

Not attractive or good-looking: a homely child.
Lacking elegance or refinement: homely furniture.
Of a simple or unpretentious nature; plain: homely truths.

1. A word that describes people lacking in social graces and taste.

2. An adjective for objects that no one could find appealling except ironically.

Urban Dictionary: homely

You know Kunjs..this homely looks thing is real funny Ok..I once had a proposal from a vegetarian guy whose family was looking for a vegetarian girl and when the guy came to see me..his family had a shocked expression on their face.I was wondering why?

They guy was bragging non stop how much a Krishna devotee he was and was acting holy(BTW he looked like some Uncle types)
In my dads house before we use to have a Paarijata tree and the fragrance was blowing in the house.

Then they guy asked me what was that smell.I said its the Paarijata flowers and he was asking me whats that?
So I used the Tamil word for Paarijata and still he said whats that?
I told him that thats the tree Lord Krishna took from Indraloka for Sathyabama.
The guy was shocked and his family looked very shocked when I said that.God knows why?

Next day they told my dad that they were expecting a vegetarian girl to look more homely and not so modern and so outspoken as to tell their son the origin of the Paarijata tree.

I was thinking thank God..cos I didnt like him either!!!

 

[sangom]

Among tabra women, even today, I think there is no expression to describe a girl who is beautiful and sexually attractive. Even if there is, it might be rather crude and bordering on slang/the obscene. Hence when women of the house describe a dil or any other girl, or even older women as பார்க்க மஹாலக்ஷ்மியாட்டமா இருக்கா, it is an euphemism for "attractive, good looking and adorable".

As to the question why Mahalakshmi and not Durga or Saraswati, M represents wealth and woman was a possession, once upon a time; hence 'this girl will be a real asset worth possession', is expressed in the above words. Durga is a fierce deity while S is famous for learning and knowledge which was not particularly cherished in a girl.

 

[prasad1]

I thought homely was an insult. LOL

 

[amala]

Homely meaning plain and unattractive is more Ameringlish I think. In Asian English from what i 've heard so far a homely girl is someone who is not necessarily plain but not sexy either. A homely girl is the kind of girl you can take home to your mother, I'm guessing.

 

[sangom]

Homely meaning plain and unattractive is more Ameringlish I think. In Asian English from what i 've heard so far a homely girl is someone who is not necessarily plain but not sexy either. A homely girl is the kind of girl you can take home to your mother, I'm guessing.

I am under the impression "homely" in our matrimonials meant a girl who will be more 'in the home' than 'going out'; in tabra terms a homely girl is one who will devote more attention and importance to her allotted household chores and will thus be more desirable to her in-laws. Please correct me if I am wrong. (Anyway I do not have to look for prospective dils any more!)

 

[H.Krishnamurthy]

Well Mr. Sangom Sir,
I have doubt about this Homely girl.
About 30 to 40 years back a dil normally will be at home and will take care of the needs of all in-laws.
Those days hardly 10 to 15 % of Girls were employed .
Now a days the story is other way . Hardly 10 % stays back and others are employed. So the question of taking care of In-Laws does not arise as the dil needs some one to take care of her requirements back home.
To Know about the living of Girls in earlier days please read Thyal by Mu Va. Now if you ask younger generation to read that , it will be a comedy piece cos it explains about the working culture of a homely girl or rather day to day affair of a newly married girl.
As you must have seen in modern days the question of in-law applies only to mil and fil and not bil and sil, as most of the houses have either one kid or two and not more than that. Am affraid future generation may have to check Google for words like uncle and aunty or will jump to conclusion that it is the neighbour.
Periamma periyappa chithi chitappa then the chinnamma athai athimber are forgotten words . Uncle and aunty covers every thing.
So the defination of homely girl changes from time to time and ini or vidhi seyvom for homely girl.

I am under the impression "homely" in our matrimonials meant a girl who will be more 'in the home' than 'going out'; in tabra terms a homely girl is one who will devote more attention and importance to her allotted household chores and will thus be more desirable to her in-laws. Please correct me if I am wrong. (Anyway I do not have to look for prospective dils any more!)

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

I am told about a homely girl :

She should be belonging to or having the characteristics of domestic, familiar,
intimate, plain, unpretending, having homely garments, homely dressed, homely
manners and with knowledge of homely cooking practices, a good mother to
children and a good wife having religious exposure of brahmin custom, knowlege
of Hindu rituals etc.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[sangom]

Well Mr. Sangom Sir,
I have doubt about this Homely girl.
About 30 to 40 years back a dil normally will be at home and will take care of the needs of all in-laws.
Those days hardly 10 to 15 % of Girls were employed .
Now a days the story is other way . Hardly 10 % stays back and others are employed. So the question of taking care of In-Laws does not arise as the dil needs some one to take care of her requirements back home.
To Know about the living of Girls in earlier days please read Thyal by Mu Va. Now if you ask younger generation to read that , it will be a comedy piece cos it explains about the working culture of a homely girl or rather day to day affair of a newly married girl.
As you must have seen in modern days the question of in-law applies only to mil and fil and not bil and sil, as most of the houses have either one kid or two and not more than that. Am affraid future generation may have to check Google for words like uncle and aunty or will jump to conclusion that it is the neighbour.
Periamma periyappa chithi chitappa then the chinnamma athai athimber are forgotten words . Uncle and aunty covers every thing.
So the defination of homely girl changes from time to time and ini or vidhi seyvom for homely girl.

Shri Krishnamurthy,

I agree with some points in your post. (I have marked a "Like" also.) But permit me to say that right from those days when tabra girls were allowed to take up salaried jobs (government jobs, more particularly in the AG's office, State Government departments, as school teachers, etc., were the territories initially explored by our girls, imho), the dil-mil friction had started coming to the fore. Since the law as it was then, favoured even high-handed action by the husband and in-laws, the friction was very subdued erupting only in rare cases to separation.

Today, the law favours the girl/woman overwhelmingly and whatever we are witnessing today is because of the woman-empowerment. Just today my cousin told me that recently there was some high court decision (judgment?) allowing mils also to file complaints of 'woman harassment' (பெண்ணைக்கொடுமைப்படுத்துவது. May be, in the days to come we will see very good 'fights' between dils and mils in court rooms. As Veerappa once said "பேஷ்! சரியான போட்டி"

 

[H.Krishnamurthy]

It is Sabash sariyana potti Sir.
you are right and as it goes in the movie neither Padmini nor Vyj will win and the present days Husband ( of either MIL or DIL) have to switch off light like what Mr. Gemini does and push off from that place.

Shri Krishnamurthy,

I agree with some points in your post. (I have marked a "Like" also.) But permit me to say that right from those days when tabra girls were allowed to take up salaried jobs (government jobs, more particularly in the AG's office, State Government departments, as school teachers, etc., were the territories initially explored by our girls, imho), the dil-mil friction had started coming to the fore. Since the law as it was then, favoured even high-handed action by the husband and in-laws, the friction was very subdued erupting only in rare cases to separation.

Today, the law favours the girl/woman overwhelmingly and whatever we are witnessing today is because of the woman-empowerment. Just today my cousin told me that recently there was some high court decision (judgment?) allowing mils also to file complaints of 'woman harassment' (பெண்ணைக்கொடுமைப்படுத்துவது. May be, in the days to come we will see very good 'fights' between dils and mils in court rooms. As Veerappa once said "பேஷ்! சரியான போட்டி"

 

[kunjuppu]

I am told about a homely girl :

She should be belonging to or having the characteristics of domestic, familiar,
intimate, plain, unpretending, having homely garments, homely dressed, homely
manners and with knowledge of homely cooking practices, a good mother to
children and a good wife having religious exposure of brahmin custom, knowlege
of Hindu rituals etc.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

let us all pursue this fantasy dear friend.

what you are describing is a glorified cook, servant, sex worker, care taker, maid, accountant, home manager, and above all corpus fund provider (through dowry).

i did not mention service to the in-laws.

all of it unpaid ofcourse.

no wonder, none of the girls of today want anything to do with dil code of conduct even 50 years past. would you? would you for your daughter?

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Argument purpose you may be correct. But still in some of the brahmin families, even in the
21st century, leave alone dowry, all the girls are not happy after their marriage either
due to husband's inability to raise upto the occasion to know the actual truth or he stays away
as if he knows nothing that happens when he is away. Because, mother will say that with
great difficulty she has brought him up and the son may not be able to open his mouth
in front of the mother. That is the situation. Ultimately, the girl who joins the family from a
different set up, may be one daughter and who would not have undergone any misery or
foreseen problems, forced to face the problems for no fault of her.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[kunjuppu]

balasubramanian,

re your post #41. i agree with you.

whose fault is it here? the fact is today's girls are from small famiilies, one of a kind or only one of two girls. very rarely we see more than two children, the past 30 years or so. i think.

my close relation had this rule. he had 2 daughters, and he would not marry them to a single child family. he believed that the boy would be ammaiyotti.

also, he wanted the boys to be in usa, so that his daughters would not have to put up with and take care of the in laws.

one might not agree with my relative's stand, but it worked for him. both his daughters are happily married in usa, and the inlaws spend their own money if they want to visit their sons.

this is the reality of today. i see so many ads here for girls. not one for boys. if one wants a tambram bride today, i think, one has heavy competition, and the only way a boy can get his candidature considered is to demand nothing and offer everything. 50 years ago, it used to be the girls' side who had to do the same thing.

the tables have turned. probably permanently. judging by the number of female births to male births, and the penchant for ic marriages among our girls.

 

[amala]

Why Most Women Will Never Become CEO - Forbes

so much for women domination eh?

 

[prasad1]

Why Most Women Will Never Become CEO - Forbes

so much for women domination eh?

I strongly disagree with this article.

The comment after the article is more to the point.

"slarsen 4 days ago
I’m sure this article was written to get a bunch of flaming comments and traffic to forbes.com.
However, its neither constructive or inspirational for how the world could be.
There are alot of NEVER myths out there that have been broken. Surprised that this writer would want to his daughter to grow up in the world he described, and offer no insight into how we grow our culture to be slightly more evolved than flatulence induced haze we apparently all live in today."

http://jezebel.com/5855631/this-is-not-why-women-wont-become-ceos

"Rather than focus on the fact that more women are CEOs of Fortune 500 companies than ever before, that seven of these women entered their new offices just this year, and the fun-fact that firms with more women in management positions tend to be more profitable that their male-dominated competitors, Marks chooses to illustrate how women have run up against an unbreakable barrier in corporate America. Thankfully, he's such a sloppy illustrator that the barrier seems like just a series of squiggles."

I am sure if we go back there would have been article saying that a Black Man will never be president of USA.

And my wife said I can write this post. LOL

​

 

[kunjuppu]

prasad,

re your post #44, i think, the issue, is 'most women'.

there will always be women ceo, but not to the numbers and level. i think, women, no matter how capable, are still saddled with motherhood and home care. this has been continually reinforced by comments from all the successful women in the corporate sector.

men, still have it easy when it comes to managing the family. this means the woman has a double load, and those that succeed inspite of this, have to be admired. muchly admired.

it is not fair to compare obama here. it is one instance of one person. here we are talking of a corporate culture. worldwide.

 

[sangom]

Argument purpose you may be correct. But still in some of the brahmin families, even in the
21st century, leave alone dowry, all the girls are not happy after their marriage either
due to husband's inability to raise upto the occasion to know the actual truth or he stays away
as if he knows nothing that happens when he is away. Because, mother will say that with
great difficulty she has brought him up and the son may not be able to open his mouth
in front of the mother. That is the situation. Ultimately, the girl who joins the family from a
different set up, may be one daughter and who would not have undergone any misery or
foreseen problems, forced to face the problems for no fault of her.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

Shri Balu,

May be you are right in that there are some cases in which girls have, somehow, got married to அம்மாக்கொண்டு boys, but today, girls and their families seem to have become wiser due to experience.

Recently in a typical பொண்பார்க்கல், the girl asked the boy about his job, future plans, his interests and all; then she asked whether his salary is in his own bank account or any joint account. She also asked "இந்த ரெண்டு லக்கேஜும் நம்ம கூடவே வருமா?". Since the boy was the only son he said 'yes' and the girl promptly replied, I am told, that in that case the proposal is off!

Earlier, I had written about a girl telling the boy, during the பொண்பார்க்கல், that she would not want 'the two devils' to stay with them. In the above case, the girl appears to be more refined and given "luggage" status to her would-be in-laws

I am not writing these to criticise the girls; actually I admire those girls for their honesty. But this is the reality of the situation today.

Curiously, young girls who got married some 30 years or so ago and had a load of complaints and grievances about their in-laws, now have made their son (usually one son cases are more prone to this syndrome, imo) a very confirmed அம்மாக்கொண்டு, and expect the would-be dil to accept them as ideal mils.

When I pointed out to one such 'mother' that no girl is likely to tolerate the emotional dominance she has carefully built in her only son, and his extreme attachment and emotional dependence on her, she brushed my remarks away, saying "athimbar, I won't be a mil like my mil; I know the difficulties of a dil and can provide her a very happy home. etc., etc." But pathetically, she is blind to the fact that her son won't go to office without telling her tata - on the mobile if he is on tour, and good night before going to bed (again thru mobile if he is on tour!).

 

[kunjuppu]

dear sangom,

i have never heard அம்மாக்கொண்டு before. to us, it was always அம்மையொட்டி

no matter what the term may be, mil and dil cannot share a house as equals. where there is, there is tension. in many cases the dil keeps quiet. in other cases the mil keeps quiet.

i know of both instances personally.

where the mil keeps quiet, it is enforced by the son. he openly sides with his wife, and ulitmates the parents. either they live on the dil terms or ship out. in most cases the fil mil tuck their tails between their legs and put up with it.

especially when this happens in usa or canada, where the dil is a key income earner, with very little of old value loyalties. in india, if the dil moves into the mil house, the old rules apply. this ends in தனி குடித்தனம் in many instances.

the smart thing for today's ageing parents, is to ensure that they provide themselves well during their retirement. the previous habit of paupering yourself for daughters' weddings and living off son's income does not play any more.

even when there are multiple sons, it is prudent to ask all the sons to help out towards upkeep of a house, than plonking yourself in your son's place.

if it comes to that, the parents might find a warmer welcome at their daughter's homes. sil usually dont care as long as food is laid out in time and house clean. the presence of the daughter's mother usually helps in these instances.

just some random thoughts...

 

[sangom]

Dear Kunjuppu,

I fully agree with your analysis. But what strikes me strange today is the mentality of emerging (buddling) mils about themselves - that they are very pure sort of womenfolk, free from any stain of the mil poison etc., and possibly a dream of a happy, contented mil-dil relationship with all glory!

In one case, very very near to me, the newgen mil takes all the neglect and other uncivilities shown to her by her dil without making a noise but claims outside that she has the perfect dil. When some naradee-type woman pointed out some inconvenient episodes, the mil explained them away with cleverly crafted and possibly much rehearsed justifications like மாட்டுப்பொண் என் முதுவிலெ அறயல்லை, நல்ல பலமாக தடவித்தரவாக்கும் செய்தா, type of stories

 

[prasad1]

prasad,

re your post #44, i think, the issue, is 'most women'.

there will always be women ceo, but not to the numbers and level. i think, women, no matter how capable, are still saddled with motherhood and home care. this has been continually reinforced by comments from all the successful women in the corporate sector.

men, still have it easy when it comes to managing the family. this means the woman has a double load, and those that succeed inspite of this, have to be admired. muchly admired.

it is not fair to compare obama here. it is one instance of one person. here we are talking of a corporate culture. worldwide.

I was not comparing. I was saying that never is strong word.
30 years ago there were no African American as quarter back or coaches in NCAA or NFL. That is changing, look at the collage level the number of non-white quarter back has dramatically changed. Same is true of Players in NBA, Boxing in USA, and Soccer in UK. So to say it will never happen is wrong. That is my contention. 30 years ago the whites in South Africa used to think the blacks were less than humans, and Australia would not admit person of African origin. Things change and some times too slowly but they do change.

There is no guarantee that what is true in today's world, will be true in the future. I am looking forward.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

balasubramanian,

re your post #41. i agree with you.

whose fault is it here? the fact is today's girls are from small famiilies, one of a kind or only one of two girls. very rarely we see more than two children, the past 30 years or so. i think.

my close relation had this rule. he had 2 daughters, and he would not marry them to a single child family. he believed that the boy would be ammaiyotti.

also, he wanted the boys to be in usa, so that his daughters would not have to put up with and take care of the in laws.

one might not agree with my relative's stand, but it worked for him. both his daughters are happily married in usa, and the inlaws spend their own money if they want to visit their sons.

this is the reality of today. i see so many ads here for girls. not one for boys. if one wants a tambram bride today, i think, one has heavy competition, and the only way a boy can get his candidature considered is to demand nothing and offer everything. 50 years ago, it used to be the girls' side who had to do the same thing.

the tables have turned. probably permanently. judging by the number of female births to male births, and the penchant for ic marriages among our girls.

You are absolutely correct. I had been recently to one of the Matrimonial Centre for
registration, where I have been told clearly the nature of demands these days. In
fact, owing to shortage of brahmin girls, they start dictating the boys side before
choosing a life partner. I will tell you one such instance, i.e. The girl asked the boy;
how many of you are your house, i.e. how many brothers and sisters. If there is more
than one, we may discuss about our proposals. Otherwise, the "Perisu" may disturb
our life after the marriage. I want to be very clear before I proceed to matching the
horoscope by my parents. Are you clear, this is what a query from a girl. This
occurred only a very few days back.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur