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Mumbai Mayhem

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happyhindu said:
Anyone from Mumbai on this forum? All ok? The clips on the tv are sickening. Should we blame only intelligence failure again?
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There can be nothing more oxymoronish than 'intelligence failure'. If we had 'intelligence' we wouldnt have 'failed'.

I think with this attack, terror assumes new proportions in India. There is virtually nothing in India which is beyond the reach of the terrorists.

Temples, Mosques, Trains, Buses, Planes, Educational Institutions, Parliaments, Assemblies, Hospitals and now finally Hotels.

Nothing is safe ; No one is safe

Welcome to India.

At this moment, i can only remember what a wag said and I read :

India is the most non-aggressive nation in the world, because it doesnt interfere in its own internal affairs.

I think the Government can better hand over reins to Al Qaeda and proclaim it's inability.

I came in as a Hindu ; I dont mind dying a Muslim if it would mean that i will be able to live longer.

It is time that pseudo-secularists come out of their slumber and be counted.

If pseudo-secularists are 'still in a denial mode' then God help them.
 
Dear Hariharanji,

We do have intelligence in various forms. Unfortunately (for them), they seem to do a good job. More unfortunately (for them again, not for the common man like u and me), they end up having to handle pressure from various sources. I knew someone who was part of a unit handling the LTTE insurgency quite a few years ago. They end up succumbing to a bullet or to stress which kills harder than a bullet.

To me, the biggest terrorists are politicians who make a career out of promoting divisiveness in the name of religion, caste and what not. All they know is to divide to rule and we do love being divided, don't we, because we have an image to feed our ego to...

The constituency from which a bjp candidate has been elected in a particular area in bangalore is so damn corrupt, the whole place knows it. The citizens have asked that chap atleast a dozen times for roads and street lights for basic safety, but typically the needs are never attended to...all that we are supposed to be content abt is that they are there to protect followers of hindu faith...i really dunno whether to laugh or to cry..blame the citizens or curse the MLAs...
 
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happyhindu said:
To me, the biggest terrorists are politicians who make a career out of promoting divisiveness in the name of religion, caste and what not.
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But the politicians didnt create the divisiveness in the first place. They use it as means to achieve their political ends.

happyhindu said:
All they know is to divide to rule and we do love being divided, don't we, because we have an image to feed our ego to...
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I disagree that we 'love being divided'. We love to retain our individual identities.

Respecting another religion in my book doesnt mean losing my identity.

Do you mean to say the religions are a culmination of 'similar individual egos' ?

Different religions are different ways of knowing, realizing, identifying with the Supreme. The problem of today is that the 'younger religions' are trying to add to their numbers by force.

happyhindu said:
The constituency from which a bjp candidate has been elected in a particular area in bangalore is so damn corrupt, the whole place knows it. The citizens have asked that chap atleast a dozen times for roads and street lights for basic safety, but typically the needs are never attended to...all that we are supposed to be content abt is that they are there to protect followers of hindu faith...i really dunno whether to laugh or to cry..blame the citizens or curse the MLAs...
Click to expand...

You are comparing different things. Corruption is a social malaise while religious fundamentalism of any hue is a threat to humanity.

Corruption feeds on greed while fundamentalism feeds on propaganda. Despite all the corruption around us, we have done well in IT, landed on the moon, built roads, developed ports, so basically we can, "co-exist with corruption".

It is impossible to co-exist with fundamentalism.

In today's milieu, i dont mind a corrupt politician who will have a no-nonsense attitude towards terrorism.

I believe in living in penury but with honour rather than dying rich.

The time has also come to ostracize and isolate anti-national and pseudo-seculars amongst us. There is one in this forum, but then, that is a long story which i dont want to repeat here too.
 
Dear Hariharan-ji,

My comments below:

hariharan1972 said:
But the politicians didnt create the divisiveness in the first place. They use it as means to achieve their political ends.

Cracks in walls abound everywhere. The politician's speciality is to hold on to one crack, and drive a wedge into it to tear it down apart. Then there are politicians who will draw a thin line on the wall with a pencil and led us to believe that it is actually a pre-existing crack in the wall. Over the last century, we have seen a growing breed of master politicians who do create divisiveness.

I disagree that we 'love being divided'. We love to retain our individual identities.

Respecting another religion in my book doesnt mean losing my identity.

Ditto here.

Do you mean to say the religions are a culmination of 'similar individual egos' ?

Religion often extends into the social sphere as a personal identity and therefore it wud be impossible not to associate it with some ego composite. All religions are fear-based or reward-based and have evolved as human need for emancipation of sorts. Personally wud prefer no-religion or "faith" that transcends "religion" any day.


Different religions are different ways of knowing, realizing, identifying with the Supreme. The problem of today is that the 'younger religions' are trying to add to their numbers by force.

Not only are they successful, but the irony is that the ones that had got added up by force end up identifying with, and supporting, the aggressor group.

You are comparing different things. Corruption is a social malaise while religious fundamentalism of any hue is a threat to humanity.

Corruption feeds on greed while fundamentalism feeds on propaganda. Despite all the corruption around us, we have done well in IT, landed on the moon, built roads, developed ports, so basically we can, "co-exist with corruption".

It is impossible to co-exist with fundamentalism.

In today's milieu, i dont mind a corrupt politician who will have a no-nonsense attitude towards terrorism.

I believe in living in penury but with honour rather than dying rich.

Must say, i disagree with most of the first part here. Poverty breeds corruption and corruption breeds terrorism. Terrorism is a sheer business entity - the business of taking human lives for something in return - one can easily compare it to a trading guild. A poor man will agree to become a suicide bomber if he is promised that his family will be given a better life more that what he cud have afforded being alive. Add meeting the houries as a personal bonus. And becoming a martyr in Allah's mission as a 'spiritual' bonus. I do not think some people even want to genuinely stop terrorism, or the biz hub around it wud stop humming. What else wud they do to keep the sales of arms, ammunition, going, etc..

Please have a look at this link: http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=3.0.2776446217

The time has also come to ostracize and isolate anti-national and pseudo-seculars amongst us. There is one in this forum, but then, that is a long story which i dont want to repeat here too.

Opinions often reflect our feelings, while reality might either be far more tuf to discern or might exist on completely alien terrain. To someone else, you too could come across as an anti-national and pseudo-secular. I certainly seem to come across as such for some in other forums.

Regards.
Click to expand...
 
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Hi all,
Please i request u all readers........pls read an article about brahmin' attitude
in Mumbai tragedy...www.keralaiyers.com net samooham........this
is thought provoking article about recent tragedy in Mumbai and
think what our community is doing now in Mumbai.

Regards
tbs
 
AN IMPORTANT POINT TO NOTE:

The ruling party repealed the anti-terror laws , while the whole world is introducing new new laws to curb terrorism. - can they explain why?

many terror acts had happened mainly affecting the common public - why no intense and sustained media coverage then.

Now the elites are terrorised so the media is doing intense coverage.

The blame the whole political parties -not against ruling party - the party which callously repealed the anti-terror laws but the whole political parties. This is not educating the public , this is clouding the issue.

They should educate the people, whoever responsible for repealing the anti-terror laws and the consequences of that - will that happen?
 
Perfect MM-ji. I too have been curious about these laws..

Actually, all politicians are to be blamed. They thrive on divisiveness. They promote fanatism for personal things like language; but why cannot they promote fanatism for collective things like cleanliness? In what way is language going to prevent Cholera or various diseases after these floods?

Forget Congress, BJP, JD or whatever...Nobody is straight. All are equal in corruption - all just loot the country and fool people.

Too much is spent on the security of these politicians and their family members. Their security covers need to be reviewed and lowered or removed if necessary (methinks some of Laloo Prasad Yadav's people are such that they need security cover to protect themselves from the seething aam aadmi..)

Politicians use the mafia to settle scores with one another; and the police as their personal machinery to handle this. At all levels, the police needs some back-up not to succumb to this type of pressure from these political rouges. If the politicians are totally to blame for the state of affairs; we are even more, for electing them. Maybe we just need a few Anniyans...
 
hello mdm,

Don't get muddled or try to muddle the issue - by blaming politicians you are only helping to cover up the issue.

The issue is clear cut - why the ruling party repeal the anti-terror laws? I mean the whole world is introduing laws to curb terrorism. why they act against it?

If in their election manifesto , they said they will soft-pedall on the terrosist issue and made aware of their stance to the public - then the responsiblities is with the media failing to educate the public on the consequences of it.

But if it is not in their election manifesto, then the MP'S who voted to abolish the terror laws should take responsibility.

Media should educate the public with correct diagnosis - it is their responsibility - they should name the MP's who introduced bills to abolish the anti-terror laws - they should be questioned on their reasoning for doing that - they should be grilled. Media should do that.

You cannot blame all politicians , entire democracy etc.... - that's muddling the issue - corruption is another issue - don't muddle it here with terrorism. (in one satyaraj film, they actually enacted this scenarios..., you just skirt one issue with other issues - that's very irresponsible)

Whoever is responsible to repeal the anti-terror laws they should be made accountable, that's the need of the hour.
 
MM-ji,

No am not trying to skirt the issue. Its just my personal opinion that corruption and terrorism go hand in hand.

And again its my personal opinion that politcians of no party are trustworthy. We have seen how one can be AIADMK member in one election and member of DMK or PMK in another election. Not sure if any politician at the MLA level is interested in knowing what his own party stands for - they only look for their own next move to make money.

I agree with you that the ruling party needs to offer an explanation why they failed so miserably in their anti-terror laws...plus also explain why they failed to act despite intelligence, that too from the US, that a specific attack of this nature was impending.

Please do not think that i am for or against any one party. Almost all members of my family, including my father, joined the BJP in Karnataka and worked at the grass-roots level before the elections there...but then again, my father and i do not agree on several things...

I do understand that a hindu feels more secure with the BJP...but let us aim to live practical idealism - am sure everyone wud prefer that they get tough on both, corruption as well as terror sources.
 
Mdm,

happyhindu said:
MM-ji,

No am not trying to skirt the issue. Its just my personal opinion that corruption and terrorism go hand in hand.

Could be - but here it is not internal one - it is planned in another country and carried out by people of another country - So try to relate.

And again its my personal opinion that politcians of no party are trustworthy. We have seen how one can be AIADMK member in one election and member of DMK or PMK in another election. Not sure if any politician at the MLA level is interested in knowing what his own party stands for - they only look for their own next move to make money.

Your concern is valid - But the issue is different , it is about terrorism of exterme kind. Please don't murk the issue anymore.


I agree with you that the ruling party needs to offer an explanation why they failed so miserably in their anti-terror laws...plus also explain why they failed to act despite intelligence, that too from the US, that a specific attack of this nature was impending.

What failed ? they purposely repealed the law (POTA) what for?- Since they came into the government , How many attacks ? have they captured anybody? have they punished anybody? have they atleast tried to prevent anything?

Please do not think that i am for or against any one party. Almost all members of my family, including my father, joined the BJP in Karnataka and worked at the grass-roots level before the elections there...but then again, my father and i do not agree on several things...

OK i believe... But it is not BJP or congress it is about governing

I do understand that a hindu feels more secure with the BJP...but let us aim to live practical idealism - am sure everyone wud prefer that they get tough on both, corruption as well as terror sources.

Again this is another topic. Let's stick our guns against the ruling parties all the time, since they are the ones answerable. One should not divert attention by blaming everybody and everything. Lets keep focused.
Click to expand...


Personally I would suggest re-introducing the "Kazhu Maram " punishment for whoever finance , give refuge help in one or other way to help terrorist.

You know what is "Kazhu Maram" It is a tree stum with pointed edge on top , it is applied with oil and the guilty is made to sit on the pointed edge, Slowly the tree will perce and will enter his body creating excurating pain - not a sudden death but it will take 7 to 10 days - Publics are encouraged to throw anything on the convicted, from stone to slipper - that kind of torture should be introduced, then lets see anybody dare .

See with punishments of this kind people will afraid to even think of doing crime. Pay the devil in its language.

What you say?

Regards
 
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MM-ji,

Agree with you. Anti-terror laws certainly need to be brought back; and those that were responsible for removing them certainly need to be investigated (just offering an explanation for its removal will not do).

Plus, they need to get down to punish and show that they can punish; and punish really badly.

Again, I do beleive terrorism and corruption cannot be seperated. Corruption breeds terrorism. Please see why most corrupt states become or get linked to sponsors of terrorism. And when it comes to preventing and safeguarding ourselves too, first corruption needs to be weeded out.

Everyone i know has decided to vote for BJP this time. Obviously there is a great amount of anger against the congress.

Regards.
 
Dear Mdm,

I agree with you on corruption. It should be weeded out.

But again with multi-party democracy it is a day dream. For the politicians it is a means of livelihood. Anyway this is totally another topic.

If it is internal terrrorism , then we should attack corruption first. But it is not internal - it is aided from another country , even the root-cause is corruption, if it is on another country - we can't do anything about it. Can we?

The opposition leader Advaniji asked 10 specific question to the ruling party - No media published that so far - wonder isn't it?. I just saw in MSN news. But no other electronic media publish that... Is it such a trivial thing or what?

Regards
 
happyhindu said:
Something to ponder upon:

Two of the three states which went to polls after the Mumbai terror attack have rejected the BJP's "soft-on-terror" charge against the Congress:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Terror_plank_doesnt_pay_for_BJP_/articleshow/3809920.cms
Click to expand...

If i am allowed to say so, this is an incorrect observation.

Indian voters have surprisingly thrown up a 'pro-incumbency' wave as evidenced from the results of Delhi, Chattisgarh and MP.

State elections carry a shadow of national issues but more often than not, they are fought on local issues.

If BJP had fought "only on the plank" of "me-better-than-congress-in-tackling-terror", it would have failed to retain MP and Chattisgarh.

While i am not a BJP hardliner, most impartial political pundits would agree without hesitation that BJP would come down hard on terror. And if there is any thoughts of "hot pursuit" , it is the BJP which can actionise it.

In Delhi Sheila Dixit's as a CM nominee (defacto) vis-a-vis "Weak K Malhotra" (projected) did the trick.

In Rajasthan, infighting within BJP, represented by some 62 rebel candidates plus the Gujjar issue sealed the fate of Raje Scindia.

There is nothing great to gloat about Congress victory in State elections. I would have the same view even if BJP had returned in all the 5 States.

BJP's charge against Congress on handling of terror may not be entirely true but neither is it entirely false.

Congress is an enigma as far as Indian populace is concerned. Having rode to power entirely on TINA and BMW factors for well over 40 years, it has almost cut itself off from the aam aadmi in terms of understanding his / her expectations.

On the issue of terror, Congress has a tendency to speak a lot but do very little in follow up action.

Congress has the riches in terms of Ministerial talents but in hobnobbing with the Dravidian parties and the Left, it has lost it's soul.

If Congress really wants to call the BJP's charge as a bluff, let it demonstrate it's determination in action even if it would mean endangering the existence of it's Government.

There can be nothing more shameful than congress's procrastination in trying to get a "consensus" among it's allies on how to tackle terror.

I am afraid that the terror plank is very much alive and kicking and the State elections are no way holding a mirror to the national sentiment on tackling terror.
 
fareed zakaria gps, is a weekly cnn program on sundays. not sure if it is available in india.

the few occassions i have watched it, i found fareed to be a thoughtful and very analytical if somewhat bookish individual. the show is fast moving for a talk show.

fareed is from mumbai, and is also editor of newsweek magazine.

to a query to the listeners re how mumbaikars should change their wya of life, in reaction to the recent mayhme, surprisingly 70% of the respondents said, that mumbaikars should do nothing.

mumbai, is a free flowing, open, multi multi everything city, and it should remain that way. mumbaikars must not alter their behaviour.

it is upto the guardians of public safety to ensure the open city concept is upheld. for otherwise, we would all be giving in to the domain of the terrorists, albeit indirectly.

personally, i think, that open discussions with pakistan or extraditing lashkar guys to india will only be whitewash.

these types of situations do not fit within the judicial process of trial and punishment within the current laws. just look at our mess with afzal guru. or guantanomo.

what we need, i feel, is more covert intelligence operations. we can learn a lesson or two from israel on this.

the u.s. is approaching it differently. now a day, i hear, that the quickest career paths in cia or fbi is for arabic speaking brown skinned individuals.

maybe we should look at the set up of our intellligence agencies and ensure that we have the firepower, covertness and the familiarity to strike at the camps.

only a diamond can cut another diamond.

or ofcourse, we could ask our ex colonial masters to lend us james bond :)
 
something else about the mumbai attack now and the attack in 2006.

2006 killed more people. but they were the common folks. that attack did not get the world wide attention that the taj attack did.

a relative of mine, who is among the well off in mumbai, emailed me, about the candle light vigil at the various places and how she was participating in it.

the email was also an invitation for others to participate. i could not quite get the handle of the nuances in that email.

till i read this below article today

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy....html?hpid=artslot&sid=ST2008120900105&s_pos=

i am not surprised, either by my relative's email or by the article in the washington post.

what surprises me, is that we did not learn anything from the 2006 attack. which makes me wonder, why should we be any different this time!
 
Did you read that .. 20 strikes in mainland India - no body cares.

Terrorist got sick of it - no attention you see. you hit common people - they just bite the bullet and the normalcy is returned as if nothing happened.

So terrorist got sick of it, no they are bang on target - the elites.
Now you see the result.

You see how cleverly they write the news.. Because of this scale , the POTA is back. what scale - the scale is humongous because terrorists touched the elites.

the railway station they killed 60 people - no media cared - infact no media coverage on what's happening in CST.

24 hrs they covered the Taj, Oberoi and Nariman. they even say Taj is the image of India not CST railway station. What is this - Taj is a hotel - that's all. CST is more prominent - no coverage .

The media is sickening - no values. You have money , they are ready to write anything to protect your interest.

Invade the mind , then the rest is easy..
 
hi all,
Namaskarams... In india there is no human values........in taj and nariman
house/ are main important because many foreigners are involved.
there is no respect for human beings in CST railway station,
because they are all indians.........In assam 8 bomb blasts....... there
is no value of human values............. indians life is very cheap than
foreigners.there are many blasts happened.........many to be happened..
still we never learned.........in USA only one 9/11 and nevere repeated again.
they have respect for human life. here in india ..there there is no respect
for human life.....only money/political power is value than anything.
sorry to say...........india has more population........so we can make
more population......

Regards
tbs
 
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