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Money Management – key areas to focus when creating a Portfolio !!

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Jaykay767

Well-known member
Money Management – key areas to focus when creating a Portfolio!!

First off, lets be clear on the goals. Whether you are a Senior retired person or a young TB starting in life or you are in between, the golden rules in money management are:

DO’s

1. Create an Alternate Income from Day 1 of your career. Doesn’t matter how well off you are. This is an absolute must. Alternate income could be a simple FD or rentals or side business etc..

2. Investment Plan – Income coming from regular income + “Alternate source of income”, should be re-invested. Park some in safe instruments, park some in low/medium risk investment, park some in high risk investments. Low risk low reward, High risk high reward. So you must always have some high risk investment if you want to strike big in life !

3. Monitor your Investment Plan – It should grow every month, Qtr, year, does not matter by how much. Even if you are growing only by 5%, you will come out ahead. Don’t worry.

4. Insure everything – Health, Wealth, Car, Accidentetc…. Don’t leave anything to chance. Only way people can go bankrupt is by spending recklessly OR by an unfortunate event in life !!

5. Within the first 2 to 5 yrs of your career, you should have retired. When I say retired, you should be able to pay your basic monthly bills from this alternate source of income/investment !! This is really possible if you are a very conservative TB without blowing your money all over.You can do the maths with a simple XL.

6. Within 7 to 10 yrs of starting your career, you should have retired for your kids also !!. that’s it. You are done working in life !!

This is why, I was saying, you should never even entertain about Business etc.. to get ahead in life !!. Today jobs pay you very high, just park the salary, invest/earn from them.

After you retire, do what you want. Infact the ideal work will be to do business with VC money, it can be very satisfying, zero risk toyou, and you can really test your brilliance/luck in life !!!

Don’t’s (Not easy to do as always – otherwise everyone would be rich & super rich by now)

1. Till you have retired, NEVER take DEBT, not even to buy a house or Car or anything. Buy a used car if u really need to. If you have a extended family, never easy to do, unless you are independent & strong willed. After you have made a lot of money, u can buy a house anywhere and retire anywhere for eg in Bahamas..

2. Never Spend other than necessities, save everything else. Rent cheap, share rent, live in a RV if you are in the USA (pun intended), so do what ever. Generally for conservative TBs, this should not be an issue.

3. Remember once you are financially retired, the rewards are even greater than the missed vacations, missed dinners, missed parties during the first 5 yrs of career life. Most importantly when you retire in your 30s, the entire world is in front of you !!

4. NEVER lose on any investment that can derail your life.

5. Never forget the above rules!!

Investment Portfolio:

If should invest a small portion of your salary every month into the following over a period of 2 to 5 yrs, you will almost always get ahead & pot. Retire by then !! This will also help diversify against any market crashes.

1. Invest 23% into FD, and keep paying taxes !! for NRI’s, go with NRE accounts, they are NOT taxed in India, but you may have to declare the interest as other source of income in your home country & pay taxes.

2. Invest 20% into tax free – Short term DebtFunds, and don’t pay taxes or reduce your taxes !! Always put in short term debt funds, make your money, & then reinvest !!

3. Invest 19% into Dividend Blue Chip Stocks – likeL&T, Pharma etc.. OR GE, IBM, HP etc…

4. Invest 12% into Real Estate – more as a hedge against currency risks.

5. Invest 9% into Income Mutual funds – Personally, I have low expectations from the fund managers, but you should have in one’s portfolio. Regular Income will offset any long term risk of funds going “Kaput”

6. Invest 7% in Growth/Sectoral Mutual funds – they may have multiple year lock in but are invested for growth.

7. Invest 5% in penny stocks (@ your own risk !!) –Gambler’s luck – Go Big or Go Home !!

8. Invest 5% into other world currencies – like Pound,Euro, Yen apart from $$


% Allocation are based on risk analysis, you can change it based on your local markets,conditions, etc…
 
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Jaykay767

Well-known member
See - if you take debt & buy a house from day 1 of your career, then you will be paying for the house for the next 15 to 30 yrs depending on how large the investment is. During this time, you will NOT have money to do any other investment unless you buy a very cheap house which will not be available in a good neighborhood. Infact most people who buy houses on debt, have NO concept of investment. they all wake up when they are 45 yrs & say, oh I need to now work to build a retirement fund !! Hence my recommendation is not buy a house at all, unless you can really buy very cheap !!
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
Money Management – key areas to focus when creating a Portfolio!!

First off, lets be clear on the goals. Whether you are a Senior retired person or a young TB starting in life or you are in between, the golden rules in money management are:

DO’s

1. Create an Alternate Income from Day 1 of your career. Doesn’t matter how well off you are. This is an absolute must. Alternate income could be a simple FD or rentals or side business etc..

2. Investment Plan – Income coming from regular income + “Alternate source of income”, should be re-invested. Park some in safe instruments, park some in low/medium risk investment, park some in high risk investments. Low risk low reward, High risk high reward. So you must always have some high risk investment if you want to strike big in life !

3. Monitor your Investment Plan – It should grow every month, Qtr, year, does not matter by how much. Even if you are growing only by 5%, you will come out ahead. Don’t worry.

4. Insure everything – Health, Wealth, Car, Accidentetc…. Don’t leave anything to chance. Only way people can go bankrupt is by spending recklessly OR by an unfortunate event in life !!

5. Within the first 2 to 5 yrs of your career, you should have retired. When I say retired, you should be able to pay your basic monthly bills from this alternate source of income/investment !! This is really possible if you are a very conservative TB without blowing your money all over.You can do the maths with a simple XL.

6. Within 7 to 10 yrs of starting your career, you should have retired for your kids also !!. that’s it. You are done working in life !!

This is why, I was saying, you should never even entertain about Business etc.. to get ahead in life !!. Today jobs pay you very high, just park the salary, invest/earn from them.

After you retire, do what you want. Infact the ideal work will be to do business with VC money, it can be very satisfying, zero risk toyou, and you can really test your brilliance/luck in life !!!

Don’t’s (Not easy to do as always – otherwise everyone would be rich & super rich by now)

1. Till you have retired, NEVER take DEBT, not even to buy a house or Car or anything. Buy a used car if u really need to. If you have a extended family, never easy to do, unless you are independent & strong willed. After you have made a lot of money, u can buy a house anywhere and retire anywhere for eg in Bahamas..

2. Never Spend other than necessities, save everything else. Rent cheap, share rent, live in a RV if you are in the USA (pun intended), so do what ever. Generally for conservative TBs, this should not be an issue.

3. Remember once you are financially retired, the rewards are even greater than the missed vacations, missed dinners, missed parties during the first 5 yrs of career life. Most importantly when you retire in your 30s, the entire world is in front of you !!

4. NEVER lose on any investment that can derail your life.

5. Never forget the above rules!!

Investment Portfolio:

If should invest a small portion of your salary every month into the following over a period of 2 to 5 yrs, you will almost always get ahead & pot. Retire by then !! This will also help diversify against any market crashes.

1. Invest 23% into FD, and keep paying taxes !! for NRI’s, go with NRE accounts, they are NOT taxed in India, but you may have to declare the interest as other source of income in your home country & pay taxes.

2. Invest 20% into tax free – Short term DebtFunds, and don’t pay taxes or reduce your taxes !! Always put in short term debt funds, make your money, & then reinvest !!

3. Invest 19% into Dividend Blue Chip Stocks – likeL&T, Pharma etc.. OR GE, IBM, HP etc…

4. Invest 12% into Real Estate – more as a hedge against currency risks.

5. Invest 9% into Income Mutual funds – Personally, I have low expectations from the fund managers, but you should have in one’s portfolio. Regular Income will offset any long term risk of funds going “Kaput”

6. Invest 7% in Growth/Sectoral Mutual funds – they may have multiple year lock in but are invested for growth.

7. Invest 5% in penny stocks (@ your own risk !!) –Gambler’s luck – Go Big or Go Home !!

8. Invest 5% into other world currencies – like Pound,Euro, Yen apart from $$


% Allocation are based on risk analysis, you can change it based on your local markets,conditions, etc…
you have thought like a finance professionnel
with your investment plan you hace frightened everybody
you have assumed that all are it/management professionnels with high disposable income. it needs to be simple catering to all. if someone has a salary and nothing else living in rented accomodation
first if a salary is taken as 100percent
not more than 25-30percent is available for investment.house rent at least 25percent,25-30percent for food and household expenses and 20percent taxes.
now what to do with this money
at least a lakh goes to save taxes in india -ppf other 80c options
balance has to be between FD, stocks,real estate and gold[which south ladies maxm desire] you have only 20 percent to play around with. unless you are high paid executive -most high paid get not more than 20 lakhs/yr when out of college or double income families may meet 20 lakhs objective so money available for investment is not more than 4=5 lakhs per year
my simple approach is find the cibil rating spending 500 rs and get your loan entitlement for housing first
find 20 percent of rating money for buying a flat along with the loan . if you do no have touch somebody to get it -or wait for 2-4 years. locate a flat thru internet which 70-80percent complete from a reputed builders and simply plunge . see the credai reports about the builder and his record for dellivery
until then park half in FDs and balance in blue chip stocks and grow your money atleast 20percent per year. fkeep away from mutual funds and private co. FDs they are all duds. no sense taking risks
buy gold from singapore or dubai and get 35- 40 percent on arbitrage
get a lot of foreign currency if you go abroad for any reason and wait for rupee volatility to make a killing
after all this if you do not succeed , find someone else to run your family and relax . all this money making proposals are not for you. LOL
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
JK's post #1 is a sure prescription for disaster as far as owning a house is concerned.

1. Investment in a house by borrowing from a bank is a paying proposition for a young IT paying individual. If you are in the 30 or 40% tax bracket, your principal and interest repayment on a housing loan straightaway goes as a deduction and you stand to gain the 30 or 40% on that amount which you would otherwise have paid to the taxman. This when factored into the interest that you pay on your home loan brings down the actual rate of interest. This means you are borrowing cheapmoney from the financing institution and retains your freedom to invest equivalent amount(equivalent to the amount you have saved from the taxman) in a deposit for a higher interest(opportunity cost). That is what is called interest rate arbitrage. What more, you can work out value of your house when the Home loan is closed and distribute the value appreciation across the instalments you paid to the Bank and you will find that the house as an asset has come dirt cheap to you at its real acquisition cost. And what value will you assign for the satisfaction you get living in your own house with the freedom to tamper with each brick there in it? Add it to the asset value.

So invest in a house wisely in time or perish. LOL.
 
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krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
JK's post #1 is a sure prescription for disaster as far as owning a house is concerned.

1. Investment in a house by borrowing from a bank is a paying proposition for a young IT paying individual. If you are in the 30 or 40% tax bracket, your principal and interest repayment on a housing loan straightaway goes as a deduction and you stand to gain the 30 or 40% on that amount which you would otherwise have paid to the taxman. This when factored into the interest that you pay on your home loan brings down the actual rate of interest. This means you are borrowing cheapmoney from the financing institution and retains your freedom to invest equivalent amount(equivalent to the amount you have saved from the taxman) in a deposit for a higher interest(opportunity cost). That is what is called interest rate arbitrage. What more, you can work out value of your house when the Home loan is closed and distribute the value appreciation across the instalments you paid to the Bank and you will find that the house as an asset has come dirt cheap to you at its real acquisition cost. And what value will you assign for the satisfaction you get living in your own house with the freedom to tamper with each brick there in it? Add it to the asset value.

So invest in a house wisely in time or perish. LOL.
sensible post.pl check your cibil rating and have seed money for borrowing the loan amount. Housing agencies insist on atleast 20 percent of total cost including registration and other charges. also there is a pre emi period interest before hand over of flat which jacks up cost -delays in construction by builders attracts a heavy price. of course tax set off and arbitrage in interest rates are plus. avoid more than 7 year payback for peace of mind.
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
hey jk is frightening you . see my post and see if it makes esnse

Krishji, I do have my usual run in with jkji, but in this instance he is writing this post for people of high net worth. It may not be for all, but it might fit someone perfectly. Investing is a gamble, and depending on the amount of risk you can tolerate, you should choose accordingly.
What you suggest might suit people who are young and starting out.
Gold is not an investment, gold is a hedge against inflation at best. Gold ornament might be good for showing off, but it looses its value. Jewelers generally discount your ornaments about 30% when you go to exchange. Moreover it is illiquid asset, worse than real estate.

Real estate in India (other than speculative investment) is not a good investment, as rental returns are 2-3%. Here in USA I can easily generate 10% return in real estate rental.
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
Krishji, I do have my usual run in with jkji, but in this instance he is writing this post for people of high net worth. It may not be for all, but it might fit someone perfectly. Investing is a gamble, and depending on the amount of risk you can tolerate, you should choose accordingly.
What you suggest might suit people who are young and starting out.
Gold is not an investment, gold is a hedge against inflation at best. Gold ornament might be good for showing off, but it looses its value. Jewelers generally discount your ornaments about 30% when you go to exchange. Moreover it is illiquid asset, worse than real estate.

Real estate in India (other than speculative investment) is not a good investment, as rental returns are 2-3%. Here in USA I can easily generate 10% return in real estate rental.
prasad ji
i agree HNIs will not go to JK for help as they have already become HNIs thru sensible money management
only youngsters in late twenties or person above 50yrs who are mostly savings oriented with FDs and gold without balanced profiles and no investment sense would like some redistribution before retirement require advise.
some NRIs and PIO may like to know how to park money in indian real estate/stocks risk free as they may not good returns abroad in savings accounts
hence any input should be properly tailored to meet real needs
gold I agree is not an investment but recently it has become a speculative item due to fluctuation of prices and import control along with unstable rupee.it is a hedge against stock market uncertainty as RBI policy to fight inflation is hurting growth. in fact india is becoming a consumption story instead of growth due to increase in rural incomes and aspirations. gold is becoming a better bet than stocks
who told you you can get 2percent only on real estate . if you furnish fully and rent you can collect upto 40 percent extra rental . add to advances of upto 10 months rent you can easily collect 6percent. add to it capital appreciation ,you will never regret the decision to buy real estate
 
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Jaykay767

Well-known member
Krish –

The question is NOT whether you can make money from real estate or NOT. The answer is definitely yes despite the risks highlighted by Prasad & I have mentioned this in the other post where you asked whether doing business in real estate makes sense.

Only reason, the real estate % is low is because it is illiquid, in case of an emergency, you cannot liquidate this asset immediately. That’s why I have used real estate as a hedge. My personal opinion is – I am not going to chase some silly renters & collect money every month, solve their toilet problems & waste my time - LOL !!. As a TB, I believe, we need to use our brains & energy better - no offence to anyone !!

The key is to build a portfolio in life that balances all the areas.

The fundamental question everyone needs to ask is –

“Do you want to take debt, buy a house, & then be a slave for some company, work at the whims & fancies of some boss, suffer all kind of stress, ruin your health in the process”

OR

“Retire in 5 yrs for yourself, Retire in 10 yrs for your kids also & then continue to work for some one or do business or part-time or free lancing & then build your dream home when you can do this cash down instead of buying on debt”

Of course the argument is – if you don’t buy a house now, it will appreciate so much, you can never buy. So what ? and what about our future generation – so according to this logic none of them can ever buy a house !! so if you get into this kind of argument, then you have to buy a house or buy the stock that is going to appreciate directly to heaven – LOL !!!!!

Should one ruin their health to buy this dream house. ??. And this anyways does NOT apply for NRI’s staying in USA/Europe, where the housing prices have collapsed & hardly rise in years.

Cheers,
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
i lost a lot of money investing in mutual funds.

whether the fund makes money or not, they take right off the top, management fees. the mer (management expense ratio) for some is 5% ie they take 5% of the value of the investment for management fees. most of these are around 2 to 3%.

what i found most profitable, after years, is investing in etf ie exchange traded funds. these are for investors who know nothing of investing , trust the stock market will eventually make a profit.

to give you an example, ishares tsx60, is an indexed fund, which tracks the movement of the top 60 stocks of toronto stock exchange. the fund automatically divides the money according to the strength of the toronto top 60 stocks, ie if ibm is weighted 5%, 5% of the investment is invested in ibm.

so this is a no brainer, and the mer is 0.17% or close to it. which means you trust the stock market to move up eventually. toronto average is about 10% a year, over the years. but throughout 1990and 2000s tokyo exchange did not move up at all.

it is a good idea to start a new thread, and move the last few posts there .. :) and i copied this post from the other thread..
 
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Jaykay767

Well-known member
And what value will you assign for the satisfaction you get living inyour own house with the freedom to tamper with each brick there in it?
So invest in a house wisely in time or perish. LOL.

Let merephrase this to – “Invest in a house early in your career & perish”

So many people have got stuck with crazy bosses & suffered health breakdowns because of taking huge debt on the house. Once you take debt, you have no choice but to focus/work harder to keep your job.

Yes, you can ignore this problem & say – oh millions do it, it will never happen to me & bury your head & get on with debt/buying a house. OR Play safe !!. It is all about – I drive so carefully, I don’t need seat belts or insurance or whatever !!

If you retire faster, then you don’t care. You can work at your own pace & live your life meaningfully.

Buying a house cannot be a investment strategy & cannot be a life’s goal !!!. I mean as TBs, we have so many important things to do – Religion, Vedic Studies, Learning Sanskrit, Philosophy – Advaita/etc..

As far as this satisfaction of living in your own home goes, of course – who does not want to have a own house ??. The question is how to get there – Do you invest in your home at the beginning of the career with all the stress/problems associated with that OR Do you invest in a home after you have retired ??

For SeniorTBs, there is NO point in putting money into illiquid assets, they should invest, earn monthly income & spend it !!
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
i do not know about india, but in usa/canada, with just 5% downpayment, you can buy a home, apartment etc.

where else or how else, can you manage, a huge asset with so little down, and no other asset to back up. i know of a few south asian folks, who immigrated to toronto from dubai, who with just a couple of 100,000 dolla, bought two apt blocks, and in a few years leveraged these, based on increased market value, to borrow against these, to buy more apt block. today, one family has close to billion dollars worth of property, and in a short span of 15 years, 200,000, has ballooned to 100 million in net asset, with the balance owned by banks.

one needs the guts and the chutzpah to venture into these things. let us encourage us parpanars who are into these things, and wish them well. at the same time, let us also tell them, to be competitive. nobody should expect anyone to give you business because of your caste. business should come to you because you are the BEST.

if we can be best accountants or lawyers, why not be the best businessmen too.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
there is a man i know, who in 1980s, bought on a whim, close to one education institution OMR road, 50 grounds or so. a large tract of land.

one day he found about an acre encroached by the edu institute who wanted the land for expansion. this guy is a goondah. but this man, tambram, also is goonda like, in the sense he has goonda friends. an impasse was reached. the edu still got the land. but the man got more than the market rate for it. and promises that no more land would be encroached.

a friend bough 3 grounds of land in ecr. someone passing by noticed 1/2 ground coveted by a new development. the friend decided to give up this as loss, and sold teh 2 1/2 grounds. her fault - when she bought the land, she did not measure it, and took the seller word that it was 3 grounds. so there was a doubt, when the developer encroached, as he claimed it was HIS land.

real estate.. be very careful. all said and done, if you want no risks, put your money in fixed deposit. in a chartered bank :)
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
dear sri K I like the line 'one needs the guts and the chutzpa to venture into these things and let us encourage parpanars to who are into those things' on property investment and speculation.
you know tamil school teachers in delhi mostly brahmins bought land and built flats for themselves in coimbotore . interestingly those who do not occupy them give it to other brahmins going to coimbotore for short stay/holiday in summer . one can directly approach the caretaker for a flat for stay more than couple of months. classic case of brahmin exclusivity together with good business management not expected from brahmins
insistence of 20 percent up front payment of total cost in india before loan is on insistence from govt due to lot of defaults from buyers on discovering hidden costs after 70-80 percent payment
and sticky housing loans. builders are very unprofessionel and they get middle class stuck understating the cost and escalating later and also delaying deliveries. A delay of atleast six months is very common without penalty.there are many stuck with flats without power and water connections which have not been got after possession . sometimes it is non availability of lifts in multistorey flats. any bargaining power with builder is only before first payment after which you are at builders mercy. big builders treat them like dirt. poor middle class put up with all this in anticipation of getting their own flats
 
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krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
there is a man i know, who in 1980s, bought on a whim, close to one education institution OMR road, 50 grounds or so. a large tract of land.

one day he found about an acre encroached by the edu institute who wanted the land for expansion. this guy is a goondah. but this man, tambram, also is goonda like, in the sense he has goonda friends. an impasse was reached. the edu still got the land. but the man got more than the market rate for it. and promises that no more land would be encroached.

a friend bough 3 grounds of land in ecr. someone passing by noticed 1/2 ground coveted by a new development. the friend decided to give up this as loss, and sold teh 2 1/2 grounds. her fault - when she bought the land, she did not measure it, and took the seller word that it was 3 grounds. so there was a doubt, when the developer encroached, as he claimed it was HIS land.

real estate.. be very careful. all said and done, if you want no risks, put your money in fixed deposit. in a chartered bank :)
most middle class buy invest a few thousand to buy pieces of land 40-50 km from chennai sold to them by developers. with ads on TV . how good these are and why people buy them is a mystery. dreams are sold . none of them I susopect build and most will be encroached and taken away. most are not goonda enough to recover them
 

krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
there is a man i know, who in 1980s, bought on a whim, close to one education institution OMR road, 50 grounds or so. a large tract of land.

one day he found about an acre encroached by the edu institute who wanted the land for expansion. this guy is a goondah. but this man, tambram, also is goonda like, in the sense he has goonda friends. an impasse was reached. the edu still got the land. but the man got more than the market rate for it. and promises that no more land would be encroached.

a friend bough 3 grounds of land in ecr. someone passing by noticed 1/2 ground coveted by a new development. the friend decided to give up this as loss, and sold teh 2 1/2 grounds. her fault - when she bought the land, she did not measure it, and took the seller word that it was 3 grounds. so there was a doubt, when the developer encroached, as he claimed it was HIS land.

real estate.. be very careful. all said and done, if you want no risks, put your money in fixed deposit. in a chartered bank :)
almost all middle class families buy land 40-50 km from chennai in omr road upto mahabalipuram and sriperambadoor hoping for appreciation. how many are good deals or how many will get encroached is anybodies guess. brahmins cannot become smart goondas and lack muscle power to get their land back .it is mostly write off investment
 
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Jaykay767

Well-known member
Krish –

Be cautious for what you wish for !. All this talk about guts & chutzpah, some one making billions are great to talk & dream about.

Every entrepreneur I have met says – I want to be Narayana Murthy or Warren Buffet or etc.. which means that at the top of the pyramid,there are hardly 1 or 2 people. Wish such impossibly low odds, one should NOT even venture to start business with their own money.

On the other hand, if you have some VC funding money witha regular monthly salary, by all means, do it. You are earning every month & also building your own company -you many not own the entire company but have a substantial shares !

Real estate is hard hard work !! – people do not realizeunless they get into it. Building houses & renting them, managing paperwork, property taxes, maintenance, fixing toilets, building apartments, commercial properties etc.. are not easy work. There is a lot of running around, enormous stress, govt agency problems if you are in india etc…

Always analyse the pros & cons before making any decision. The grass always looks greener on the other side. What is the point of being a multi-millionaire with all the health problems. What is the point of have a huge huge house but you cannot enjoy due to ill health.

The smartness is to earn fast, retire faster, continue to grow wealth & then buy a house, & do what ever.

In the 30/40s/50s, doing a world tour will a great learning, but once a person becomes a Senior Citizen, the same world tour can be a nightmare – going up & down the airports itself will be challenging.

Cheers,
 
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