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Is the devadasi system once again to resuscitate?

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prasad1

Well-known member
In south,west or the mid India sati was not heard of and was not practised.

Mahabharat did not happen in South India, Sati was practiced there.

The ancient Hindu tradition called ‘sati’ (or ‘suttee’), wherein a widow would burn herself to death on her husband’s pyre, was initially a voluntary act that was considered to be quite courageous and heroic, but it later became a forced practice. Although sati is now banned all over India and no longer practised, it has a rather dark history that you must know.


According to ancient Hindu customs, sati symbolised closure to a marriage. It was a voluntary act in which, as a sign of being a dutiful wife, a woman followed her husband to the afterlife. It was, therefore, considered to be the greatest form of devotion of a wife towards her dead husband.
With time, it became a forced practice. Women who did not wish to die like this were forced to do so in different ways. Traditionally, a widow had no role to play in society and was considered a burden. So, if a woman had no surviving children who could support her, she was pressurised to accept sati.




Historical records tell us that sati first appeared between 320 to 550 CE, during the rule of Gupta Empire. Incidents of sati were first recorded in Nepal in 464 CE, and later on in Madhya Pradesh in 510 CE. The practice then spread to Rajasthan, where most number of sati cases happened over the centuries.
Initially, the practice of sati was confined to royal families of the Kshatriya caste and only later spread to the lower castes, becoming widely practised among all social classes.
Sati was at its peak between the 15th and 18th centuries. During this period, as many as 1000 widows were burned alive every year, most commonly in India and Nepal.

https://theculturetrip.com/asia/ind...behind-sati-a-banned-funeral-custom-in-india/

So Mr. Vaagmi as usual partial Knowledge or accepting only the facts convenient to your position.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Mahabharat did not happen in South India, Sati was practiced there.

The ancient Hindu tradition called ‘sati’ (or ‘suttee’), wherein a widow would burn herself to death on her husband’s pyre, was initially a voluntary act that was considered to be quite courageous and heroic, but it later became a forced practice. Although sati is now banned all over India and no longer practised, it has a rather dark history that you must know.
According to ancient Hindu customs, sati symbolised closure to a marriage. It was a voluntary act in which, as a sign of being a dutiful wife, a woman followed her husband to the afterlife. It was, therefore, considered to be the greatest form of devotion of a wife towards her dead husband.
With time, it became a forced practice. Women who did not wish to die like this were forced to do so in different ways. Traditionally, a widow had no role to play in society and was considered a burden. So, if a woman had no surviving children who could support her, she was pressurised to accept sati.

Historical records tell us that sati first appeared between 320 to 550 CE, during the rule of Gupta Empire. Incidents of sati were first recorded in Nepal in 464 CE, and later on in Madhya Pradesh in 510 CE. The practice then spread to Rajasthan, where most number of sati cases happened over the centuries.
Initially, the practice of sati was confined to royal families of the Kshatriya caste and only later spread to the lower castes, becoming widely practised among all social classes.
Sati was at its peak between the 15th and 18th centuries. During this period, as many as 1000 widows were burned alive every year, most commonly in India and Nepal.

https://theculturetrip.com/asia/ind...behind-sati-a-banned-funeral-custom-in-india/

So Mr. Vaagmi as usual partial Knowledge or accepting only the facts convenient to your position.

So friend, You are as usual copy pasting "convenient" material available on the net dozen a dime.

I make a simple request to you. Please give me proof that Sati was a part of practices stipulated in Hindu Dharma.

If you have any material from Dharmic scriptures(Sruti, Smriti etc.,) please validate your position with them. Then I will accept Your position. Till then your words will remain unvalidated.

Your copy pasting convenient passages from some unheard of sites in the net is just as good as manufacturing them for argument's sake. Period.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
So friend, You are as usual copy pasting "convenient" material available on the net dozen a dime.

I make a simple request to you. Please give me proof that Sati was a part of practices stipulated in Hindu Dharma.

If you have any material from Dharmic scriptures(Sruti, Smriti etc.,) please validate your position with them. Then I will accept Your position. Till then your words will remain unvalidated.

Your copy pasting convenient passages from some unheard of sites in the net is just as good as manufacturing them for argument's sake. Period.


As usual, your understanding is muddied.
Show me where I said that Sati was prescribed in Dharmic scripture?

It was practiced and I have shown more than enough proof for that.

It is similar to saying:

Show me you have Vashnava Gene in your body, then I will believe that you are an Iyengar.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
As usual, your understanding is muddied.
Show me where I said that Sati was prescribed in Dharmic scripture?

It was practiced and I have shown more than enough proof for that.

It is similar to saying:

Show me you have Vashnava Gene in your body, then I will believe that you are an Iyengar.

LOL. You are losing your temper now. And you are indulging in name calling.

Read my posts again before going to sleep. You will find that I have been saying right from the begining that Sati has nothing to do with Hindu dharma and that you have been arguing against that quoting lengthy C&P passages from net.

And it is obvious from what you have written above that you are losing sleep because of Iyengars. LOL.

Tell them that you have a friend in me-an iyengar and they may relent.

Dont get nightmares of Iyengars. They are sharp but good people

God bless you. Sleep well.
 

a-TB

Well-known member
LOL. You are losing your temper now. And you are indulging in name calling.

Read my posts again before going to sleep. You will find that I have been saying right from the begining that Sati has nothing to do with Hindu dharma and that you have been arguing against that quoting lengthy C&P passages from net.

And it is obvious from what you have written above that you are losing sleep because of Iyengars. LOL.

Tell them that you have a friend in me-an iyengar and they may relent.

Dont get nightmares of Iyengars. They are sharp but good people

God bless you. Sleep well.

I get the odd feeling that you have stolen my style (not fully) of responding LOL
You have not given any credit for that, dearie
 
OP
OP
shansnrmp

shansnrmp

Active member
It's an important thing to note that no Mughal or Nawab rulers ruled in the Rajasthan

Dear friends

With the serious efforts taken by the Raja Ram Mohan Roy the Bengal viceroy, Lord William Pending has enacted the law in the year 1829 and banned the 'sati' practice. However, this practice adopted in some independent states were not under the British Raj's direct control. Only in the year 1987 the Rajasthan Govt enacted the law in her state, and this was conceded as an act in the assembly in 1988.

Here a reasonable doubt may rise to the readers as that, why the Rajasthan Government takes a very long time to enact this act, even it was enacted as a law to prevent 'sati' in the Britis Raj, say in the year 1829. Does it really need 159 years to frame a law to the Rajasthan state in freedom India, though the British- India achieved 159 years ago?

One who easily understands at that time the Hindu Kingdoms were ruled over in the Rajasthan and it is an independent state as well. It's an important thing to note that no Mughal or Nawab rulers ruled in the Rajasthan at that time. Here this was why the HINDU KINGS couldn't take steps to prevent the sati practices in their native state? What else could it have been except for the reactionary 'Hindutva' policies of our Hinduism?
 

zebra16

Well-known member
Dear friends

With the serious efforts taken by the Raja Ram Mohan Roy the Bengal viceroy, Lord William Pending has enacted the law in the year 1829 and banned the 'sati' practice. However, this practice adopted in some independent states were not under the British Raj's direct control. Only in the year 1987 the Rajasthan Govt enacted the law in her state, and this was conceded as an act in the assembly in 1988.

Here a reasonable doubt may rise to the readers as that, why the Rajasthan Government takes a very long time to enact this act, even it was enacted as a law to prevent 'sati' in the Britis Raj, say in the year 1829. Does it really need 159 years to frame a law to the Rajasthan state in freedom India, though the British- India achieved 159 years ago?

One who easily understands at that time the Hindu Kingdoms were ruled over in the Rajasthan and it is an independent state as well. It's an important thing to note that no Mughal or Nawab rulers ruled in the Rajasthan at that time. Here this was why the HINDU KINGS couldn't take steps to prevent the sati practices in their native state? What else could it have been except for the reactionary 'Hindutva' policies of our Hinduism?

It is suggested that you at least have a cursory look at wikipedia or do some google search before you spin your opinion as matters of fact and make unsubstantiated and wild distortion of historical facts and put the sentence in bold letters like "it is important to note....."

You also seem to have not read about the Battle of Haldighat in your school days nor have heard or read about "jauhar" - an act of self immolation of womenfolk on funeral pyre of their husbands in order to protect their chastity and self respect.

From your post it would appear that Rajasthanis' named their cities like Ajmer, Fatehpur etc. in profound recognition of utopian Mughal Rule from a distance and so many people converted to islam so much so that about 9% population are muslims now!

Your thread started with devadasi system and it is said to have prevailed only in South and East India and Rajasthan is in neither of the two zones. Why are you now jumping to sati and Rajasthan?

If you have an axe to grind against "reactionary policies of Hindutva" do so with some cogency rather than these leaps and jumps which are mostly devoid of facts.

Here is a link for quick primer for Moghul Rule in Rajasthan and the reasons (may be one of the many) for sati called "jauhar" over there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Rajasthan
 
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Vaagmi

Well-known member
Are Iyengrs sharp compared to Iyers or is it a general statement?

I do not know about Iyers.

People who are sharp and good generally do not hurt others wantonly. But if people meddle with or provoke such sharp and good people, they may get hurt badly. They will only have themselves to blame. It is like the monkey playing with the peg in the cleavage. When its tail is caught tightly in the wood, it will cry oh Iyengar, My vaal. LOL.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
It is suggested that you at least have a cursory look at wikipedia or do some google search before you spin your opinion as matters of fact and make unsubstantiated and wild distortion of historical facts and put the sentence in bold letters like "it is important to note....."

You also seem to have not read about the Battle of Haldighat in your school days nor have heard or read about "jauhar" - an act of self immolation of womenfolk on funeral pyre of their husbands in order to protect their chastity and self respect.

From your post it would appear that Rajasthanis' named their cities like Ajmer, Fatehpur etc. in profound recognition of utopian Mughal Rule from a distance and so many people converted to islam so much so that about 9% population are muslims now!

Your thread started with devadasi system and it is said to have prevailed only in South and East India and Rajasthan is in neither of the two zones. Why are you now jumping to sati and Rajasthan?

If you have an axe to grind against "reactionary policies of Hindutva" do so with some cogency rather than these leaps and jumps which are mostly devoid of facts.

Here is a link for quick primer for Moghul Rule in Rajasthan and the reasons (may be one of the many) for sati called "jauhar" over there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Rajasthan

Aamen.
 

Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
I do not know about Iyers.

People who are sharp and good generally do not hurt others wantonly. But if people meddle with or provoke such sharp and good people, they may get hurt badly. They will only have themselves to blame. It is like the monkey playing with the peg in the cleavage. When its tail is caught tightly in the wood, it will cry oh Iyengar, My vaal. LOL.

We are trigger happy with our self-destructive double barrel even when people don't meddle with or provoke.

https://youtu.be/_kfixjAIx1k
 

CHANDRU1849

Well-known member
I do not know about Iyers.

People who are sharp and good generally do not hurt others wantonly. But if people meddle with or provoke such sharp and good people, they may get hurt badly. They will only have themselves to blame. It is like the monkey playing with the peg in the cleavage. When its tail is caught tightly in the wood, it will cry oh Iyengar, My vaal. LOL.

Being a Tamil Iyengar one doesn’t know about Tamil Iyers is nothing but blatant lie. Have you not come across popular Iyers from all fields from TN?

Regarding monkey, it is quite natural to seek your help since Anjaneya belongs to you.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Being a Tamil Iyengar one doesn’t know about Tamil Iyers is nothing but blatant lie. Have you not come across popular Iyers from all fields from TN?

Regarding monkey, it is quite natural to seek your help since Anjaneya belongs to you.

The problem is, for every iyer from a field there is a better Iyengar there. So I do not remember the Iyer there. Do you want to dispute this? You may get barred from the forum. Then I may have to send Anjaneya to you to help you out. Take care.

I stop with this. I am able to see our friend who likes vaal already getting restless. LOL.
 
OP
OP
shansnrmp

shansnrmp

Active member
It is suggested that you at least have a cursory look at wikipedia or do some google search before you spin your opinion as matters of fact and make unsubstantiated and wild distortion of historical facts and put the sentence in bold letters like "it is important to note....."

You also seem to have not read about the Battle of Haldighat in your school days nor have heard or read about "jauhar" - an act of self immolation of womenfolk on funeral pyre of their husbands in order to protect their chastity and self respect.

From your post it would appear that Rajasthanis' named their cities like Ajmer, Fatehpur etc. in profound recognition of utopian Mughal Rule from a distance and so many people converted to islam so much so that about 9% population are muslims now!

Your thread started with devadasi system and it is said to have prevailed only in South and East India and Rajasthan is in neither of the two zones. Why are you now jumping to sati and Rajasthan?

If you have an axe to grind against "reactionary policies of Hindutva" do so with some cogency rather than these leaps and jumps which are mostly devoid of facts.

Here is a link for quick primer for Moghul Rule in Rajasthan and the reasons (may be one of the many) for sati called "jauhar" over there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Rajasthan

:cool: zebra16

The river mingled into the sea some tributaries also joined it. Like that when writing about something to write other instances as well. There is nothing wrong in that.
 
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a-TB

Well-known member
The problem is, for every iyer from a field there is a better Iyengar there. So I do not remember the Iyer there. Do you want to dispute this? You may get barred from the forum. Then I may have to send Anjaneya to you to help you out. Take care.

I stop with this. I am able to see our friend who likes vaal already getting restless. LOL.

The problem is what is wrong with people?
Don't they understand that Iyengar sect is only for privileged people - because I am born as one.

In fact, I even have tattoos to prove that this God concept has chosen me to be born special. I may say everyone is equal etc - wink , wink - but I have proof of my greatness.

What do they know about Boyd's gene theory and now these morons do not understand there is a Brahmin gene. In order to not rile up some vaals I did not say that it is that only Iyengar gene that is the best of the best.

How do I know? Because in this forum , in avatar after avatar, I have watched all these people's ego. I am least bothered when they attack me because they are wasting bytes here.

I cannot stand any attack on Sriman Narayana. I love him and how dare they make fun.

Yes, I come here with guns blazing for HIM.

My purpose is to defend Narayana and watch all these egotistical people day after day. I comment about them, their arrogance. But they do not stop. Let them learn that the best religion and sect is the one I am born into, Fools

I stop with this. LOL.

Be scared of the Monkey icon in my profile. LOL.
 

CHANDRU1849

Well-known member
The problem is, for every iyer from a field there is a better Iyengar there. So I do not remember the Iyer there. Do you want to dispute this? You may get barred from the forum. Then I may have to send Anjaneya to you to help you out. Take care.

I stop with this. I am able to see our friend who likes vaal already getting restless. LOL.

My Iyengar friends from School, College and Work Places have been very jealous about Iyers' performance in all fields with International recognition, and have been sleepless.

From your reply that there’s a better Iyengar for every Iyer I am reply happy to know it.

Can you please tell me the better Iyengars in Science, Literature, Carnatic Vagyakaras, Singers, Instrument Players, Cinema, Politics etc so that I can tell my Iyengar friends, and from this day they will have sound sleep.

LOL
 
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OP
shansnrmp

shansnrmp

Active member
The Iyar and Ayyangar's debates are unnecessary.

My Iyengar friends from School, College and Work Places have been very jealous about Iyers' performance in all fields with International recognition, and have been sleepless.

From your reply that there’s a better Iyengar for every Iyer I am reply happy to know it.

Can you please tell me the better Iyengars in Science, Literature, Carnatic Vagyakaras, Singers, Instrument Players, Cinema, Politics etc so that I can tell my Iyengar friends, and from this day they will have sound sleep.

LOL

The Iyar and Ayyangar's debates are unnecessary. I have to post a comment here I from the backward class Yadava did not belong to these two clans. From my school to college days, I have a lot of friends in both sects. Nevertheless, I do not see any difference between them. I have registered here that both of them are kind to me.
 
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