Is swearing ok?

[C RAVI]

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Dear Ravi

I feel compelled to write this after seeing your post.





So you object guys calling you as 'machan' but you use the words 'mental, loosu' and worse 'Keenap paiya'?

Ravi, 'Machan' is the word used to refer to one's younger sister's husband or the elder and older brother of one's wife (ofcourse nonbrahmin term with which brahmins are not used to!). So, Ravi, what do you find offensive or indecent in that term??

Alright, now, brahmins call their wife's younger brother by the name and also the older brother. Then, they call the younger sister's husband (depending on whether he is yonger or older) as 'Mappillai' or 'Aththimber'. I know that.

How come 'Machan' is any way bad word? Atleast comparing to your usage of 'Keenappayan'??

Ravi, sorry to say this, but this is the truth! This is how "brahmins" are brought up to think! That even calling one as 'Macchan' is a swering word! What about 'Mama'??

P.S. Here 'brought up' does not necessarily and only mean to be brought up by the parents. It is brought up in a brahmin culture, society, friends circle etc etc.


Kind regards

Dear Valli,

You seem to have got me wrong...

All my friends are Non Brahmins, close to me, come to my home, partake in pooja & festivals and I get along with them well than with fellow Brahmin guys.

We been brought up entirely in North India (Probably that's the reason), we could not stand TN mentality very well. Still my social circle was much better with NB's than with B's.

In our social circle we all siblings are very friendly with every person from any caste and creed and so are our parents. I had one good Muslim friend whom I invited along with many other B and NB friends of we brothers for Iyyappan pooja followed by Full Bhojanam, at our home, after the end of 48 days of vratham and before leaving for Sabri Malai. That Muslim friend also attended the pooja and eat the food with all of us and all of them together left with a pack of prasadam set and Rs.101 each.

I have no idea as how in other Brahmin families whom you are referring to, are instructing their sons/daughters as what to accept and what not to accept from their NB friends, during their social interactions/communications. What all I believe is, for atleast past 2 decades, Brahmin guys and gals mingle well with all caste people and develop their OWN PERSONALITY, Likes/Deslikes, way of social communication etc..

As far as our parents are concerned and we siblings are concerned, we are same with all with no sense of discrimination.

MACCHAAN = Younger or Elder Sister's Husband

Why should I be considered as MACCHAAN when I have not married any of the sisters of any of my friends?


It is not exactly a swear word and I know it well. What I meant in my previous post was just about refusing myself to be called as MACCHAAN (That's why I said, I dont like guys EVEN calling me as MACCHAAN, that is quite common among friends in CHENNAI)

Please be noted that, I know few NB guys in my social circle who don't like to be called as MACCHAAN.

My objection has nothing to do with B or NB usage. Its all about the meaning of the word. And I would object any guys calling me MACCHAAN, who all may be either NBs or reformed Bs who want to honor NB terminology, as a true humanist.

I don't like guys using these terms on me - MACCHAAN, MAAMEY, BAADU, YEAI VAADI (even for guys), DUBUKKU, may be few other that I don't remember....All these words aren't funny??? . Many guys in their closed friend circle like these terminologies to be used among them. But, I don't like such terms.


Avan Kadakkaan "KaeynapPayyan", "Muttaal" maadhri pesaadhay, "Loosu/mental" aa nee? etc. are some of the words that I may end up using in my close friends circle and would not mind if any of my friends calling me that way, doesn't matter which caste, religion and school of thoughts they belong too.

Valli, I think, I have explained you sufficeintly. I would love to have any exchange of friendly debates/arguments with you on any subject. I think, this is the very first exchange of posts between you and me, other than songs. Looking forward for many exchanges in future

 

[biswa]

Renuka,

You have made your point well. I agree with your approach whole-heartedly. In fact that is why I am on your side on the women domination thread. In these days of gender equality, the ability to blame guys for everything is over! In fact in Hindi films I see the girl swears even more than the guy. That is what prompted me to start this thread.

You are also right about the paternity question. Look at the recent cases of Elizabeth Hurley and Padma Lakshmi. Going around with 5 guys at the same time, and then trying to find someone to extort!

 

[biswa]

Valli and Ravi,

I think the rough Hindi equivalent of the word you mention is "saala". Though nominally it is the wife's brother, in a negative context it can mean "badmaash". Of course nowadays it is even used casually as "dude".

That is where my objection lies. From the context if I know that it is not used as wife's brother, I have a hard time distinguishing between "dude" and "badmaash".

But do you guys think that Brahmins' dialog is relatively clean in Tamil? I am not sure that is the case in English.

 

[padmanabhan_2654]

Is using swear words gradually becoming accepted in the Brahmin community? It seems the younger generation tend to use these words quite casually. Don't the elders cringe when the hear them? Don't they chastise the young? Or should we just consider this a natural evolution of language?

Using swear words - especially in Brahmin community - originates from older people who find it difficult to adjust in the modern fast moving world and way of life. These people spontaneously utter or grumble words once they find that things are not working at a fast pace or favorably for them.

One thing is certain - no one can stop these people from using the well coined words, phrases and sentences which have different meanings depending on the situations and interpretations.

The modern and younger generation casually use these words without knowing the full meaning.

The in-between elders find it a very difficult situation to explain the meaning of the swear words used by the younger generation - words remembered and used intermittently by the older people in the house.

The parents of the younger generation cannot control their sons, because they are superseded by their grand-parents in the family.

So we should consider this as a natural evolution of the language.

 

[Nara]

I have heard many Brahmins in my father's generation using a range of choice swear words, including most revered Acharyas. These words include the Tamil equivalent of "son of a prostitute", "widower/widow", "fornicator of a variety of close female relatives", etc. If I say these acharyas were not brought up well I would be accused of the worst blasphemy.

Taken from here Why Do We Swear? | World of Psychology

"Swearing is beneficial in ways that people may underestimate or take for granted. Swearing is often cathartic — it often frees us of the feelings of anger or frustration we hold and allows expression for them. It can also be a useful substitute to physical violence (who would rather be punched out than to withstand being sworn at?)."

​

Cheers machchan

 

[amala]

Ok i'm confused about this. Haven't men been swearing from time immemorial? Why is it suddenly an issue when women do the same allegedly much more than men? And nobody i know is blaming men for everything. Why the rock (not chip coz it seems humoungous!) on the shoulder?

 

[biswa]

Cursing somebody using an animal's name seems so unfair. After all, what did the poor animal do to deserve this?

Even recently ex-English captain Nasser Hussain called Indian cricketers donkeys. I guess Mr. Hussain considers himself a lion! Lions may have a mane and all that, but ultimately, they are less useful than donkeys!

 

[biswa]

Ok i'm confused about this. Haven't men been swearing from time immemorial? Why is it suddenly an issue when women do the same allegedly much more than men? And nobody i know is blaming men for everything. Why the rock (not chip coz it seems humoungous!) on the shoulder?

Amala, your post is rather too refined. You should probably pack in some swear words to give it more punch!

 

[valli]

Dear Ravi

Valli, I think, I have explained you sufficeintly. I would love to have any exchange of friendly debates/arguments with you on any subject. I think, this is the very first exchange of posts between you and me, other than [COLOR=#DA7911 !important][COLOR=#DA7911 !important]songs[/COLOR][/COLOR]. Looking forward for many exchanges in future

Thanks for your detailed reply. Much appreciated.

 

[C RAVI]

ICheers machchan

Dhooool Thalaivaa!!!!!!

 

[Haridasa Siva]

I am afraid whether we are mixing up "colloquial terms" with "swear words". When we refer to someone (especially a friend), we often resort to phrases, which if intrepreted literally could mean bad. But we use those terms to assert our closeness. There is no harm in it. Swear words, on the other hand, are intended to be harmful - shows the ill temper of the person speaking them. We can not accept them.

 

[C RAVI]

I am afraid whether we are mixing up "colloquial terms" with "swear words". When we refer to someone (especially a friend), we often resort to phrases, which if intrepreted literally could mean bad. But we use those terms to assert our closeness. There is no harm in it. Swear words, on the other hand, are intended to be harmful - shows the ill temper of the person speaking them. We can not accept them.

Absolutely true Sri Haridasa...

"Colloquial terms" to assert closeness among friends are no wrong. Just depends person to person as what they may still deslike few of such terms.

As for as swear words are concerned there should be strict no no. Since you too kow Hindi, you must be aware of many nasty Hindi swear words other than in Tamil and English.

Among North Indians, BC, MC is quite common to use against an individual. BC is used very casually not only against an individual but also while expressing anger/annoyance and frustration on an incident/event.

The so called famous "F" in English is similar to the famous "O" in Tamil.


These are just very few samples in Hindi, English and Tamil. There exists a long list of terriffic swear words in all these languages.


Many tend to use them very casually and liberally and if objected would say, don't take it personally. That means a person can keep using swear words against another and the person at receiving end should hear it considering it as "Johny Johny, yes papa, eating sugar? No papa, open your mouth.....,ha ha ha"

என்ன கொடுமை டா சாமி

Gaaliyaan tho hai kayi logoan ki shouk
Jaane kithne log ho jaathe hain shock
Zabaan pey lagaam daale bagair
Gaaliyaan tho bakthe hai, kayi beizzat log...

 

[sarang]

Colloquial or swear depends on the occasion and the tone. This is my wife's experience. In school, one muslim girl used to irritate her by calling her 'pappathi'. And when she started calling the muslim girl 'thulukkachi', she quietened and stopped calling 'pappathi'

I am afraid whether we are mixing up "colloquial terms" with "swear words". When we refer to someone (especially a friend), we often resort to phrases, which if intrepreted literally could mean bad. But we use those terms to assert our closeness. There is no harm in it. Swear words, on the other hand, are intended to be harmful - shows the ill temper of the person speaking them. We can not accept them.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Using bad language when you have some differences of opinion shows the
dying culture ( I am borrowing this phrase from Christopher Caudwell).

You must be polite in your criticism or you may keep silent if you find it not
useful to enter into any argument.

Swearing is common not only here but also in all other countries, only the
language differs ( and the other person must be able to understand that
it is a filthy comment ).

If you do not understand the language, then it is just a sound.

 

[renuka]

Dear Ravi,

You wrote:

Among North Indians, BC, MC is quite common to use against an individual. BC is used very casually not only against an individual but also while expressing anger/annoyance and frustration on an incident/event.

The so called famous "F" in English is similar to the famous "O" in Tamil.

Just for info..BC acronym has another meaning in Bengali.
In Malay we have words similar to MC..its called PM.
In a Chinese dialect its.. TYM.

Somehow I have noticed that all languages in the world have similar swear words just spoken in different tongues.
Truly we are united without realizing...I can swear by that!!LOL

Now to unwind..O Podu!!!

[video=youtube_share;_yftHJocaXU]http://youtu.be/_yftHJocaXU[/video]

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

The irony is that there are certain words miscontrued like the word - pramaadam.
It is understood as very good. The correct meaning is different - thadumaatram,
falling from your self . There are many such.

 

[C RAVI]

The irony is that there are certain words miscontrued like the word - pramaadam.
It is understood as very good. The correct meaning is different - thadumaatram,
falling from your self . There are many such.

Sri N.R.Ranganathan,

I am confused now!! Isn't "Pramaadam" = Fantabulous? And "Thadumaatram" - falling from your self / loosing balance / going awary.


Isn't "pramaadam" & "thadumaatram" totally two different words with different meaning?

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Dear Ravi,

The correct meaning is what I have given. In tamil, தடுமாற்றம்.
In Mahabharatam, sage Sanat sujathiya clarifies the doubts in the mind
of King Dhritharastra. About death, he says பிரமாதமே ம்ருத்யு. அதாவது
தன்னிலையிலிருந்து நழுவுதல். Falling from the self.

Our friend Visalakshi Ramani madam has given the meaning in another
thread. You can see it or you can read the MB.

 

[biswa]

Dear Ravi,

You wrote:

Just for info..BC acronym has another meaning in Bengali.
In Malay we have words similar to MC..its called PM.
In a Chinese dialect its.. TYM.

Somehow I have noticed that all languages in the world have similar swear words just spoken in different tongues.
Truly we are united without realizing...I can swear by that!!LOL

Now to unwind..O Podu!!!

Renuka, you can surely write an (all-languages) encyclopedia!

 

[biswa]

Ok i'm confused about this. Haven't men been swearing from time immemorial? Why is it suddenly an issue when women do the same allegedly much more than men? And nobody i know is blaming men for everything. Why the rock (not chip coz it seems humoungous!) on the shoulder?

Amala, to look at the positive side, there are some who may consider a woman swearing to be quite attractive!

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Colloquial or swear depends on the occasion and the tone. This is my wife's experience. In school, one muslim girl used to irritate her by calling her 'pappathi'. And when she started calling the muslim girl 'thulukkachi', she quietened and stopped calling 'pappathi'

Btw, according to the "liberals" in this forum, when a muslim girl calls a brahmin girl "paappaathi", she is only telling the truth or the "paappaathi" deserves it. But it is "supermacism" when the brahmin girl even responds to such comment. And calling a muslim, "thulukkachchi" is "brahministic domination"!!:ear:

 

[C RAVI]

Amala, to look at the positive side, there are some who may consider a woman swearing to be quite attractive!

You are right..I heared this from some guys....

But is that considered attractive in any situation or exclusively during some specific situations??

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Ravi,

I guess you said "specific situations" with tongue in cheek.