Is Marriage necessary in the modern day?

[Rudra_Maha]

Nothing in this world is permanent. Everything changes all the time.
The social norms are similarly very fluid. In this fluidity some practices there is stagnation, turbulence, whitewater, running underground, and disappearances, just as in any rivers.
It is foolish to cry or hold on to some age-old outdated practices.

For a society to function there has to be social norms in addition to laws of the land. Laws of the land supersedes social norms.
Child-Marriage and Sati were the social norms, they got outlawed.
Similarly, widows in India were disinherited, which was reversed by law.
Caste discrimination was outlawed but has been very poorly enforced. The social norms and politicians have kept caste discrimination on life-support. It will die in due course.

The rigid caste system wastes human resources and denies growth. The people who could not progress in the stifling bureaucratic systems of poor countries, migrate to the west and prosper because they can unshackle themselves.
CUT the SHACKLES.

A domesticated dog will stay close to home when unchained.
For an average human stays and marries in a relationship.

A wild wolf will run the moment the chins are removed.
Some people are like that.

Coming back to marriage:
At present the Laws of land favor Marriage. Marriages have legal privileges. It also helps the social order and rearing of children (labor force). The social norms towards marriage are changing, we do not know the trajectory at this time. But at present most societies and political leadership favor marriages.


My sincere request is to keep this thread about Marriage and not pull it down to the Caste level.

@ekaputra Thanks for the book recommendation, will surely try to pickup and read that.

@prasad Although i wouldnt agree on your mention of the rigidity of the caste system, i'll stick to the marriage topic to avoid deviating: Although the law of the land grants a legal framework and validation to marriage: Its not uniform across the land. Thats for sure. One prime example being the acceptance of laws for different religions. In certain practices, one man has the option of marrying many women. Other being the inheritance and property rights are still different for different categories of people.

The law of this land has not stuck some of them down and moreoever nobody also seems to be taking a serious anti stand to these for being unethical to others. Infact, that is being considered a separate law in itself. This is helplessness at it finest by the laws of the land.

Laws conform to the social conscience. Not the other way round. What we consider legal in our country is illegal in many other nations and vice versa. Hence, who sets the parameters to decide which is progressive/regressive is still a highly debatable point.

So, saying the law favoring marriage currently, hence it can be supported: it maybe because of the current social norms as i had mentioned in the above para, for example the in the case of Live in Relationships: The steps taken by the judiciary are pragmatic in approach and a welcome step towards social acceptance of live-in relationships. Live-in relationships do provide individual freedom, but laws are essential to cut back its disadvantages, due to the insecurities it carries with it. A live in relationship though may be recognized by the judiciary still lacks societal acceptance and continues to be a taboo. Proper legislative enactments are required not only to protect the rights and interests of the partners to such relationships but also to determine the various other rights arising out of such relationship such right over property, custodial rights of children etc.

So, as time goes by are we moving towards accepting the scandinavian models currently of late marriages, bearing children before marriage and then deciding on whether to marry?. Perhaps, this is one model that can also be taken as these countries are also some of the most happiest nations on the planet currently. Like i dont want a partner, i can chuck him and select another. Process of getting divorces is also super fast. They get it around in a weeks time. Could this be the progressives of our society might be taking us towards?

I believe we must'nt restrict any person under the laws of marriage, as it is also against individual freedoms. Shouldnt this institution which seems to be placing some restrictions be razed down(say not entirely possible in near future, but atleast brick by brick systematically).

Marriage is far better for men than it is for women. It reinforces the notion of women as property. It is no wonder men are happier, have better mental and physical health, and are better off fiscally within marriage than women. Married women still do the bulk of the housework, and men do almost as little childcare as they did 30 years ago.

The institution of marriage has formed the backdrop to women’s oppression for centuries, and it continues to do so. Forced marriage, child brides, Sati and polygamy all show how human rights violations of women and girls all too often come hand in hand with marriage.

 

[renuka]

Of course, there are too many going undiscovered, is it only because of caste. Damn No!...Geo politics, economy and many factors abound in this.

Talent need not go waste when one streamlines destiny. I had already mentioned above that the ones who are super achievers/Genius manifesting will break and move beyond their normal orbits. That fluidity should be promised for the fortunate souls. But is that so of the other souls in the society.

Every other person we meet is an average Joe like us. Should everyone aspire to be something greater than what the society had intended him to be?...yes...but for any person who does'nt want to/say who doesnt know what he wants for himself...what should be his case. Shall i break the existing substrate and say, you're free, go out and hunt for yourself?. I'm sorry, this is nothing but Matsya nyaya. The weak ones will be trampled down by the powerful elites in no time. It is this social structure that gives some hope for a section of people. Is this system fair--> Need not be...But is there an alternative and If that is individualism, then damn no, better not take that road and end up as a cultural orphan.

Although i didnt make any comments on Dr.Kalams quote of dreams and children, i'll try addressing that point. He said to dream and achieve something for the nation. Highly motivational from a great person indeed-->

However, i have never advocated to lock kids into their hereditary professions......But i am saying, just because we think of caste as something demonic, should i throw away the baby out with the bathwater?....Nope....For generations it has given a sense of identity to many people...If this sense of identity is derogatory or demeaning to someones beliefs, a dilaogue can be initiated and a mid point can be reached, it can be addressed and mitigated largely, which is why i said everyone should be taught the art of respecting the differences., this becomes the basis of diversity and not mixing everything up and become a so called melting pot. Be it the PM of India or the chowkidaar of a bunglow, both should be looked at equally. Now, is it this practically possible? i would like the progressives to lead by an example and show rather than put the onus on the traditionalists and gaslight them.

Regarding the exceptions---> Yes, being the youngest of five siblings, Kalam was the exception category. Is'nt he the one who went onto become President. Same is the case with Dr Sivan too. But by saying all are exceptions, If you're hinting at that human genius in everyone, i respect that view point. But in the normal sense, i would'nt call myself a genius. I am just a normal average joe squandering in this chaos. Say in corporate terms, each one of us is a resource. Thats it!!

Coming to Dalits becoming priests, honestly the trend these days it more towards Vedanta.--->

Nope, this is just generalization of the schools of thought. It may appeal to some intelligent beings, but for the masses nope. I'd rather stick to the other astika traditions than get myself into Vedanta. Thats my personal choice. Vedantic school suggests the first step towards mokṣha begins with mumuksutva, say a desire of liberation. To break away the shackles, and liberate oneself, maybe possible at an individual level, but nope, i am only concerned the societal consciousness. At the end of the day, if i keep dreaming self introspecting by being the detached person in the society today, i'll be left to fend for my own survival and may end up dead on the streets.

Now again, here is another question, who sets the trend in a society. If a person is left free, he will be susceptible to forces beyond his control, in a way one can be manipulated into thinking he is doing a great thing. If he has a community backing, atleast he is secure to an extent, he can touchbase with multiple people and get some perceptions. Now, can this person go out and learn other schools of thought, yes...but if there is no such thing as a community, what becomes of such a person....

Regarding the Varna system-->why do you think its outdated?.....look around u.... ministers sons becoming ministers, doctors wanting their children to be doctors,film stars, bollywood, professors, bureaucrats...list goes on....the so called Caste system has just transformed itself into a degree based entitlement system today.

Even now, there are separate associations/Alumni groups for Doctors, Engineers, Lawyers etc. Is'nt this the same as what those people who referred to themselves as the Brahmins/Kshatriyas/Vaishays/Shudras did in the older days.

If varna had gone outdated, the fluidity it offered would have been lost and the individual genius of Dr Kalam and Dr Sivan would have never arisen. Nothing has changed much, just replaced the old indian/sanskrit terminologies with the Portugese/American term....waalah modern society created....

Paramhansa Yogananda had many siblings..yet it was only him who became a Paramahansa..so can we say he is just an exception? Everyone is an exception--->

Yes thats why i termed those gentlemen as exeptions. As i said earlier, if youre identifying genius in every individual person, you're an enlightened person and i humbly respect that honorable thought of yours. But in my idea of an exception, all the other persons/siblings stuck to their normal lives while one person of the lot went beyond the borders and created a track for himself. This is the exception category i believe in/define as.

anyway I have a question...whatever you feel will never be implemented..if going by the same logic the current PM of India isnt a Kshatriya by birth to lead the country..so are you going to say India needs monarchy again-->

To answer this, yes i do agree that my thought process will never be accepted or be implemented. I am glad and happy about it too. I again say, i am not a progressive, who goes around preaching their entitlement and choices to others. I stick to whatever i believe is my path without blocking/ forcing others into mine.

I am not aware of our PMs genealogy or family to comment on that. I believe, the PM as an individual has a vision of the India, he is able to articulate it well and many like it too. So, he is just a kshatriya by guna. This is his personal choice to be a PM. If somebody had forced him to take the position, then that would be bad.....again the same case as of Dr Kalam and Dr Sivan, individuals rising to the top on their caliber and karma. Also, where does the question of monarchy come into this....

Not really,,I am a doctor and also teach Sanskrit and my son does not want to be a doctor nor learn Sanskrit. And I am fine with that.

Here in my country most doc's children dont end up being doctors cos they see how much time and dedication it takes and not everyone wants to spend so many hours out of home.

Also parents out here do not force their kids to live their own dreams(the dreams of the parents I mean).

If one understands the inner calling of a person one would never force anyone that goes against his true calling.

Isn't that what Dharma is all about?
In-line with your inner calling.
Dharma began to decline the day it became a rigid discipline that is where it was just outwardly practiced but never totally understood.

When I was in India long back for my studies I noted that many actually lived to show to others and not really lived for themselves.

Its always to continue some legacy as to make others admire them or make others turn green with envy.

Once I was in an ashram and an two elderly ladies from India started chatting with me, asking me where i was from..what I was doing for a living etc.

Then they asked me "why aren't you wearing any jewelery? what would people think of you as if you have no money to buy gold? we are not well off but still we wear gold so that others wont think we can't afford anything"

I was surprised cos coming to an ashram but what others thought of them mattered more than actually existing for ourselves.

So you see, its this mind set"what would others think?"
The day we drop this mindset and ask ourselves what do I want? what can I do ? what is my true inner calling...you would be surprised that everything will fall in place..your kids themselves might follow whatever dharma you tell them if you allow them to deeply understand and connect instead of just competing and living for others.

It's not hard to self analyse.
Covid-19 has given us ample time to slow down.
It even makes us cover our faces with a face mask and we are all less body conscious.

It's not that hard when we are fluid..rivers flow smoothly..only Ice causes an avalanche of destruction.

 

[Rudra_Maha]

Not really,,I am a doctor and also teach Sanskrit and my son does not want to be a doctor nor learn Sanskrit. And I am fine with that.

Here in my country most doc's children dont end up being doctors cos they see how much time and dedication it takes and not everyone wants to spend so many hours out of home.

Also parents out here do not force their kids to live their own dreams(the dreams of the parents I mean).

If one understands the inner calling of a person one would never force anyone that goes against his true calling.

Isn't that what Dharma is all about?
In-line with your inner calling.
Dharma began to decline the day it became a rigid discipline that is where it was just outwardly practiced but never totally understood.

When I was in India long back for my studies I noted that many actually lived to show to others and not really lived for themselves.

Its always to continue some legacy as to make others admire them or make others turn green with envy.

Once I was in an ashram and an two elderly ladies from India started chatting with me, asking me where i was from..what I was doing for a living etc.

Then they asked me "why aren't you wearing any jewelery? what would people think of you as if you have no money to buy gold? we are not well off but still we wear gold so that others wont think we can't afford anything"

I was surprised cos coming to an ashram but what others thought of them mattered more than actually existing for ourselves.

So you see, its this mind set"what would others think?"
The day we drop this mindset and ask ourselves what do I want? what can I do ? what is my true inner calling...you would be surprised that everything will fall in place..your kids themselves might follow whatever dharma you tell them if you allow them to deeply understand and connect instead of just competing and living for others.

It's not hard to self analyse.
Covid-19 has given us ample time to slow down.
It even makes us cover our faces with a face mask and we are all less body conscious.

It's not that hard when we are fluid..rivers flow smoothly..only Ice causes an avalanche of destruction.

I'm not sure or aware of any idealistic society like that exists today, but since you say out of you experience, maybe I'll accept it and not explore further.

Regarding the forcing of education, its because India is highly populated, economic disparity and the distribution of wealth is so stark a difference that some jobs are highly prestigious while others are looked down upon, add to it the competition. Might be because of the colonial hangover, but unless this attitude changes, people are gonna keep pushing their wards towards more lucrative career choices like doctor, engineer, bank etc. Everybody wants to lead a luxurious life, dont they. When jobs are limited and opportunities are low, passion takes a backseat because Hunger is a more potent force than career. Which is why i mentioned, this is all part of Geo-politics.

Regarding that ashram incident, yes many are still clueless and come their to just show off. Even many swamis are of show off material. We love in a world where branding has become more important. To release oneself from the clutches of consumerism is a task in itself, I have personally seen all the old peoples visiting the mutts like kanchi, sringeri etc. Reading Ramayanam and Mahabharatam when their old and retired, i can only laugh at this attitude. Rama or Krishna never were never like these people. They were completely involved in life, spirituality and their actions today are left for us to hold onto.

Any tom, dick and harry can speak/practice spirituality at 50, it takes real guts and control to practice spirituality and lead life when you're 25. Miss the bus at 25, you're not gonna make it at any age after that whatsoever or howsoever u try. Which is many there are many lost souls amongst us, the poor ones like those you met at the ashram. They're trying their part to get onto a bus they missed at 25 and which is already full by now.

And that Dharma part, that is a bit complicated. Finding my inner path can be taken as a duty and following my duty is dharma. But sometimes both can come at a loggerhead. This is where the D.Sankat happens. I have personally seen some cases, where the parents are so much into self introspection and all, teaching Dharma and stuff to their kids, without realizing that the kid does'nt have the ability to grasp such philosophy. Ultimately these kids end up becoming some confused spirit with a load of thoughts that can never be unloaded and loses his way in life.

Not all are blessed enough to find answers in life, for them their Dharma is just to follow their duty. Make sure that every single chain in this network works and don't break the connections. This can create a dangerous cascading effect . Hence, Duty and dedication to whatever we are assigned, takes precedence over Dharma. (Dharma itself is classifiable to many parts).

Over the fluidity part, both are water in various formats. Try too much to melt the ice to attain fluidity, you'll end up drowning in the deluge you yourself created. A river is smooth and nice as long as it keeps within its banks. Overflow and then it becomes a curse. Add ice to it and watch the destruction unfold. So, both fluidity and Solid can turn destructive. Depends on the nature of its use . I'm sure many are skipping a heart beat when they come across a news saying an iceberg melts or breaks. So, its safe to keep some ice as such. Avoiding the Pandoras box is a more plausible solution than opening it and trying to fix the auxiliaries that come out of it!!