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is drinking okay?

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care5

Member
I am very disturbed by brahmins drinking and then doing all those poojas. Is it okay ?

I have seen people hindus have swami room in one remote corner of the room , but have good drink/bar room. why are they having this conflict in their lives?

I truly don't believe in Caste. but seeking discussion from others.
 

arunshanker

Active member
I am very disturbed by brahmins drinking and then doing all those poojas. Is it okay ?

I have seen people hindus have swami room in one remote corner of the room , but have good drink/bar room. why are they having this conflict in their lives?

I truly don't believe in Caste. but seeking discussion from others.

Actually I guess you dont understand the concept of God
God did not and does not forbid anyone from eating or drinking anything
The true Brahmin is one who does good and thinks good and is good
does not harm anyone
The vedas are full of stanzas where Soma is one of the most important drink
check this out
There is no single opinion within Hinduism about drinking alcohol, however excessive drinking or alcoholism is universally condemned as harmful to the individual, to the family, and to society.

Our smritis or religious law books classify the drinking of wine as one of the Five Great Sins. (Distilled liquor was unknown to ancient Hindus.) It is said that both Brahma, the Creator, and Krishna, an Incarnation of Vishnu, cursed wine because of its harmful effects, and anyone drinking it will be affected by the curse.

However, in the Hindu tantric tradition wine is drunk sacramentally after ritually removing the curses on it. In this tradition a slight degree of intoxication and the joy that one can experience from that is used as an aid to the remembrance of the joy of communing with God. Wine may also be combined with bhang (cannabis) for the same purpose.

Feminine aspects of God are sometimes depicted as enjoying the intoxication of wine, as does the Goddess Durga in the Devi-mahatmyam (Hymn on the Greatness of the Goddess). Devotees of the Goddess may offer Her wine and then drink it as a consecrated offering or Prasad.

But even the tantric tradition condemns drunkenness in the absence of the remembrance of God. A simple way to understand how Hindus may view any given behavior is to determine if the behavior takes one toward or away from God. Anything that takes one toward God is good, and anything that takes one away from God is bad. The very same action may be a sin for one person but a virtue for another, depending on the mental state and intentions of the person at the time of performing the act.

One can never really get away from God, however, who is everywhere always; it is only our ignorance of this fact that causes us to suffer. As Krishna says in the Bhagavad-Gita: "The Infinite doesn't care about anyone's sin or good deeds. Knowledge [of God] is covered by ignorance, and by that people are deluded."
Remember that anything and every thing should be in moderation
even for that matter poojas!
 

nandbala

Member
Dear Arunshanker
Towards one's journey towards 'realisation', no vices have any place. This word moderation is brought in by people like by us. Then can we moderatey abuse people, stab, steal, lie, fight, etc. etc. ? A true spiritually minded person will not start justifying such things.
rgds nandbala
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
nand,

there is more to life than abjuring alcohol or meat, to make one a better human being.

i think, while it may bother you to see folks have a bar, and an elaborate altar, in the same household, it may be wise if you could possibly give those persons, a little more leeway.

each one of us has restrictions of some sort. i think, to define our own limitations and prejudices, as something that is sacrosanct, and to condemn others, is ultimately self defeating.

to each one his own way to find God and to find pleasures.

after all, you might crave for aviyal or eliseri. does that make your wants any inferior, to one who is satisfied with morunjaatham and ooRugai?

personal habits re food are not, i think, necessarily, a reflection of one's character and goodness. in fact, there are as many scoundrels and vagabonds, i think, with the brightest three layers or viboothi or naamam on their foreheads, as those who espouse atheism.

i think, it is best to pass judgement on the book, after reading it, and not to base it, on the the glitter of the cover.

thank you.
 
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ganeshsdn

Member
halo,
I accept the views of everyone especially with Mr. Kunjuppu,, As for as any kind of behaviour or habit, one can say easily it comes through two ways. One is spritual and other is habitual. Everyone in this world is craving for something which is PURE LOVE THAT IS UNCONDITIONAL,, AT FIRST HE IS TRYING TO GET IT FROM THE MOTHER, IF SHE GIVES WITHOUT CONTRADITIONS HE WILL NEVER GO FOR ANY SECONDARY ITEMS SUCH AS DRINKS OR SOMETHING ELSE. The power of unconditional love from where he gets will make him sensible and satisfied completely and he will never go back.. This is the Pshycological truth I tested and experienced.
About doing poojas one must realise the value of doing things personally. Athma vidhya, Brahma vidhya, and Eswara Vidhya we all well know the essence of these through Mahathmas. The most inner strength which gives power to be in the right way is inner integrity . Which we learn through the Three monkeys idols of Gandhiji. ONE MORE THING I STRONGLY SUGGESTS ONE WHO WINS AND LEAD OTHERS ARE TRUE FOLLOWERS OF SOME STRONG PRINCIPLES. GOD NEVER JUDGE US!!! HE EXPECT OUR REALISATION OF THINGS FOR THE INNER PROGRESS...
WITH REGARDS, Ganesh
 
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arunshanker

Active member
Dear Arunshanker
Towards one's journey towards 'realisation', no vices have any place. This word moderation is brought in by people like by us. Then can we moderatey abuse people, stab, steal, lie, fight, etc. etc. ? A true spiritually minded person will not start justifying such things.
rgds nandbala

Actually nand food and drink is ones birth right
But you are talking about deed that can potentially harm others ( abuse people, stab, steal, lie, fight) those when done are harmful there is no question of moderation there since it is interactive while food and drink is not it at the maximum if done without control harm ones own health
Like I said in my earlier post does good and thinks good and is good
and does not harm anyone so eating and drinking habits do not com into play here
 
S

sapr333

Guest
Wine & Cheese are one of the oldest storage technologies used by ancient wandering people to store their milk food/grape juice..
If you take it that way its fine.. And they used wine customery in the wandering place in-lieu for bottled water/Rasam/fresh lime in a place where fresh fruits were not available... If you use in that context its fine.. But if one uses for his own intoxication to reach 'Cloud No9' he is harming his health, which is wrong.. And if he uses that intoxication to harm the neighbour, its terribly wrong.. Thats all I can say about drink..
 
Drinking is there in the vedas. Devas drink SOMA PAANA and asuraas drink SURA PAANA. Soma paana is not much toxicated like sura paana but now a days there is no single item called SOMA PAANA. Sura paana only is prevailing widely in the market(HIGHLY TOXICATED ITEMS). So, drinking SURA PAANA is prohibited as we are from DEVAS.
 
S

sapr333

Guest
Drinking is there in the vedas. Devas drink SOMA PAANA and asuraas drink SURA PAANA. Soma paana is not much toxicated like sura paana but now a days there is no single item called SOMA PAANA. Sura paana only is prevailing widely in the market(HIGHLY TOXICATED ITEMS). So, drinking SURA PAANA is prohibited as we are from DEVAS.

Dear Sesh, welcome back..

Is there any recipie available for Soma Pana?
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Drinking is there in the vedas. Devas drink SOMA PAANA and asuraas drink SURA PAANA. Soma paana is not much toxicated like sura paana but now a days there is no single item called SOMA PAANA. Sura paana only is prevailing widely in the market(HIGHLY TOXICATED ITEMS). So, drinking SURA PAANA is prohibited as we are from DEVAS.

??
who is from the devas?

and "asuras' ??

so wud you think drinking by anyone to the level of gross intoxication (the kind that vomits and behaves like a depraved fool after over-drinking), is all fine as long as "devas" (ie, you) consume only "soma paana" and "asuras" consume "sura paana"?
 
dear hindu

I just want to say that, drinking is bad as the intoxication or alchahol content is too high & if anyone drinks (brahmins are from devas - as they are soft and god feared) it will affect them.

so to restrain atleast a BRAHMIN from drinking, I suggested that.
 
brahmins are from devas - as they are soft and god feared........good joke.
all humans are devas due to his bahaviour(not by birth) only he changed as asuraas
drinking ,eating is a (rights)habit if any body adict to that one even by spiritual that is bad.
i hate non veg and alcohol.
 

arunshanker

Active member
Dear Sesh, welcome back..

Is there any recipie available for Soma Pana?
Actually I dont agree with the Deva Asura thing
But the ingredient for soma has been speculated upon and there has been intense research in this area
It is described as prepared by extracting juice from the stalks of a certain plant. In both Vedic and Zoroastrian tradition, the drink is identified with the plant
The plant was called soma by the Indians and haoma by the Iranians.
R. Gordon Wasson proposed the fly agaric mushroom
So in essense it is a psycoactive substance rather than alcohol
in other word in street parlance it is a drug! but natural!
Then there is also the candidate
Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for its hallucinogenic effects
and of cousrse on shoudl not forget that good old Cannabis is also an effective candidate as legend has it that it was Lord Shiva's favorite
I will continue in my next post
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
very ineresting arunshanker.

so soma can be cannabis, ephedra, syrian rue (any other possibilities ?).

which of those plants can possibly be put to a distillation process, maybe like say after mixing it with something, to produce a drinkable liquid.

the pavaman soma suktam is here : http://www.celextel.org/vedichymns/pavamanasuktam.html

it looks like the pavamana or soma was used as a liquid to sanctify something.
 

nandbala

Member
Dear all

I hope you saw Cho's Enge Brahmanan yesterday. This point was brought about well by him quoting scriptures. One other response - a true brahmin should not differentiate himself from rest of the human beings and creatures. Whether you harm yourself or others - it is one and the same. I am not speaking at the gross worldly level but at the higher level to which everyone of us are trying to elevate ourselves. So, at some stage, any of the vices have to be left behind - it is not me who is saying but please look at all the scriptures.
Rgds
Bala
 

arunshanker

Active member
Cannabis as a candidate for soma

very ineresting arunshanker.

so soma can be cannabis, ephedra, syrian rue (any other possibilities ?).

which of those plants can possibly be put to a distillation process, maybe like say after mixing it with something, to produce a drinkable liquid.

the pavaman soma suktam is here : http://www.celextel.org/vedichymns/pavamanasuktam.html

it looks like the pavamana or soma was used as a liquid to sanctify something.
The theory that cannabis is a candidate for soma was put forth byBraja Lal Mukherjee's article "The Soma Plant" in the Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society
Mukherjee based his assertion on references in the Satapatha Brahmana that mention a plant, "usana," from which Soma is made. The "u" in "usana" was a prefix carry over from the Kiratas, with whom Soma originated. When the "u" is dropped you return to one of the original Sanskrit names for cannabis: "sana."

As well, Mukherjee notes the use of terms similar to Soma in cannabis names in the languages of the Tibetans (somarasta) and the Tanguts (dschoma). Mukherjee also noted the long Hindu history regarding the sanctity of bhang, and its use in the worship of Shiva and his counterpart, Durga.

Finally, like other researchers, Mukherjee noted the obvious parallels between ancient descriptions of the preparation of the Soma and the traditional preparation of bhang.

Also in favor of the theory that Soma was originally cannabis are ancient writings which indicate that the stalks of the Soma were woven together and worn around the neck as an amulet for protection. This is similar to the modern wearing of hempen jewelry amongst the counter-culture. But this act of weaving would be hard to accomplish with a mushroom.
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Thanks very much Arun Shanker.

Are there any specific phytochemicals that produce the hallucinogen effect in cannabis, and does the traditional method of bhang preparation temper it down to a medicinal drink?

The Kiratas were supposedly considered to be somavanshis or chandravanshis, perhaps indeed they were the soma brewing cult of fearless warriors. They were considered non-vedic, (did they move into the south and found the ancient chola in the south ?)

There are some details available in the Boyar caste article on wiki. A big portion of them can be considered as spread across the current tamil, telugu, kannada, malayalee, gujarati, marathi and orissa populations of today.
 
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KRS

Well-known member
This is what I do not understand. Drinking and eating are in the personal realm. They have no effect on others except those who consume.

So, why are we worried about other's conduct in these realms?

We, the TBs, have a curious take on what others in our community do. Why?

It does not matter whether there was Soma or what else. It does not matter whether in Vedic times the Brahmins partook in eating beef. What matters is that these have become 'personal' habits today.

If a person drinks and takes non veg food, and calls himself a Brahmin and tries to do Barhminical things, who does he hurt?

Regards,
KRS
 
S

sapr333

Guest
For knowledge sake, if someone is curious about Soma Pana, pls watch out for the re-telecast of the popular BBC documentary 'Story Of India' by Michael wood..Its too good a show, and I have seen all the episodes.

He tracessoma, to a herb found Peshawar..

Btw, what KRS said is perfect right... Why one bother about someone's food habit?

Hmm!! Homosapiens are the only species in the world, which drinks another species milk...
 

arunshanker

Active member
This is what I do not understand. Drinking and eating are in the personal realm. They have no effect on others except those who consume.

So, why are we worried about other's conduct in these realms?

We, the TBs, have a curious take on what others in our community do. Why?

It does not matter whether there was Soma or what else. It does not matter whether in Vedic times the Brahmins partook in eating beef. What matters is that these have become 'personal' habits today.

If a person drinks and takes non veg food, and calls himself a Brahmin and tries to do Barhminical things, who does he hurt?

Regards,
KRS
Execellent KRS you could not be righter in fact you speak my mind
True why bother what others do Brahmin or not as long it does not harm you physically, emotionaly and socially
but there is a thin line because drinking can bring social harm if done by someone within our familial framework
This seems to be a healthy debate
 

anandb

Active member
I think the original thread stated brahmins drinking and doing poojas. Doing poojas or no is another matter but according to me brahmins drinking is a strict no-no. And I am not making value judgments on brahmins who do drink. I used to drink myself once but surprisingly I found myself going away from it when I started learning vedic chanting. So I guess it is a process of evolution. But I have been surprised myself when some fellow members who learnt vedic chanting and doing pradosha poojas keeps a bar at home. But I don't think the scriptures allow brahmins drinking intoxicating drinks. But hold your breath. Are we really brahmanas. Again, I quote from my guru the Paramacharya. He says the following as per the Shastras.
"If the Gayatri has not been chanted for three generations in a Brahmin family, they are not Brahmins anymore. They are called as "Brahmana-bandhus" or a kin or friend of a Brahmin.

If the samskaras are not performed in 3 generations, the family will be called as "Durbrahmanas" ie degenerate brahmins but the Acharya says at least the brahmin tag is still attached which can be resolved through some expiatory rites. So he says doing the Sandhyavandanam and the Gayatri is a pre-requisite to be called a brahmin. This came as a jolt to me because I was not doing it and neither could I recollect my father doing Sandyavandanam ever. But my grandfather did so at least I was consoled that I have not become a Brahmana-bandhu.

I know I have diverted but my take on this is if one is doing the Sandyavandanam and the Gayatri plus a orientation to do poojas and learn Vedas there is a likelihood to refrain things like drinking and smoking though it may happen gradually as it did in my case. Possibly the mind should seek it as well. In my case, I felt this tremendous guilt conscience that I was doing "achamanam" - sipping water and also sipping the other water in parties. I could not reconcile both. But I know lot of people who are able to compartmentalize both comfortably. I find it a little hard to digest that's all but no value judgments on such people.
 

chandar

Member
QUOTE=care5;22034

I am very disturbed by brahmins drinking and then doing all those poojas. Is it okay ?

I have seen people hindus have swami room in one remote corner of the room , but have good drink/bar room. why are they having this conflict in their lives?

I truly don't believe in Caste. but seeking discussion from others.


Why you are affected. Do you drink coffee/Tea, in that case drinking Alchol with in limit is not at all bad, this how we at our community look at this. Are we south Indian Brahmin are not hypocrat???.:welcome:
 

chandar

Member
This is what I do not understand. Drinking and eating are in the personal realm. They have no effect on others except those who consume.

So, why are we worried about other's conduct in these realms?

We, the Tamil Brahmins have a curious take on what others in our community do. Why?

It does matter whether in Vedic rituals is being performed in public places, the Brahmins partook in eating beef - which I think should have been avoided during those rituals being performed in public place.. What matters is that these have become 'personal' habits today.

If a person drinks and takes non veg food, and calls himself a Brahmin and tries to do Barhminical things, who does he hurt?
 
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