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Integration with the rest of the Tamil Tribes

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kunjuppu

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i begin this thread at the request of sapr33, although with more than normal trepidation.

a thread of this nature can easily turn into a verbal fist fight about roots, causes, hurts, insults heaped over the ages and more recent past.

let us hope, that we can keep this civil, and to the topic of how we, as tamil brahmins, can once again, endeavour to integrate ourselves with the other tamil tribes.

personally, i will keep my posts, as factual, as i can, without intending to provoke a 'brahmaNa dhrohi' type responses. it sure is a fine line, between the nakedness of truth and the cloak of 'indignation full of righteousness'.

let this thread be focussed on finding solutions and moving forward, more than anything else.

my attitude towards this post is 'the pursuit of a community's interest is the beginning and very nearly the end of morality' - the community being here, our tamil brahmin community.

only tamil brahmins. not other brahmins of india or elsewhere. for only we, have an interest in our own welfare in mind, i think, to be considered part of the tamil tribes. once again.

i will use the term tamil tribes as opposed to inam. elsewhere, in this forum, the concept of inam, has been found painfully unpatriotic. but the belief in tamil inam is widespread in tamil nadu. we cannot simply wish it away. it exists.

our own bharathiayaar, parithimaar kalaignar, and to an extent naa parthasarathy, all, subscribed to the concept of tamil inam, and our due place in it.

so if we treat the word inam clinically, and without the socio political connotations of late, it might indeed be the appropriate word to smith. but i will desist.

again, i think, the tamil tribe concept is all encompassing to include the other southern linguist groups. which is why, when someone points out that periyar was a kannadiga, vaiko is a telugu or mgr is a malayalee, it falls on deaf tamil ears.

tamil nadu has generally been generous in accommodating immigrants.

which is again why, it is a surprise, since we tamil brahmins, who have been there for a millenium or more, for reasons beyond the focus of this thread, have been in the socio political wilderness since the dawn of the dravidian era. ie since 1967.

to be sure, we participated in it. we eagerly, along with rajaji, voted congress out, to usher the dravidian era, and tamil nadu has not looked back.

at the time, the nadars and the gounders, were the only groups that were opposed to dravidianism. over the years, they have made up, and have become part of the ruling clique.

these gounders, pillais, nadars, mukkulathors, and even tamil dalits, might fight tooth and nail today. but appear, to make up constantly the next days, before indulging in another fight. seems like any normal family.

but we appear to be the outsiders. after enabling the birth of this dravidian baby, we fell out very quickly. and have been the consistent outsider to any significant role in tamil nadu.

why is it that we alone are a perpetual political panchamar in tamil nadu? .

this shunning by other tamil tribes, has hurt us, i think. for in india of today, without a home state, i think, one is an orphan. one's strength in delhi or elsewhere, comes from one's own deep grounding in the native province.

in order to move forward, the intial steps may be to acknowledge the reality of the need to belong and find a place in the state of tamil nadu.

in order to do that, we need to understand ourselves as viewed by the other tamil tribes. this analysis of the current situation, must be introspective in nature, and could bring up some aspects of our past, which we might be uncomfortable with.

a soul search, need not be painful. it is more an acknowledgement of whether, our true loyalties lay in which part of the greater indian that we are - tamil nadu or the pan-brahminism bridging the linguistic divide.

for many of us, the answer may already be evident. others, such as me, are hopeful, that much as committed bharatvasis that we are, it does matter, while avoiding the fissiporous ideologies, to be at the same time, a proud, belonging, accepted, equal participant and a vibrant contributor to tamil nadu.

that is as important, as being an indian. one cannot, i think, be a fulfilled in one role, without a complimentary fulfillment in the other. they both go hand in hand. atleast, i think so.

but, i think our progress towards integration within tamil nadu, would lie, in knowing not only our strengths, but in understanding our weaknesses. for many of us, even to accept the concept of 'weakness' may be anethma.

it may be that the exploitation of our weaknesses, is among the root cause, for our rootlessness? i don't know.

whatever it may be, i think, it is in our interest to integrate. the other tamil tribes, much to my chagrin, simply 'do not care' if we don't come to the party. they have enough quorum and clout.

the quickest expalanation to this quagmire, is to blame the propaganda wing of the dravidian parties, who have made haywire out of the bogey of anti brahminism, for their own political ends, and hence the cause of all our misfortunes. i think, that is not the whole story.

but that is an easy way out. it does not quite subscribe to the paradigm, that 'the pursuit of a community's interest is the beginning and very nearly the end of morality' .

i do not think that we need be necessarily moral in our such pursuit.
maybe some political compromise and raja thanthiram is also needed. not sure.


i think, what is required is some out of the box thinking, practical small steps that each of us could practice, so that over a period of time, our image, to our fellow tamil brethren, is one of favour. the least minimum, one of indifference. or brahmin neutral environment.

that would indeed be moon mile distance, from where we are currently right now.

more later.

thank you.
 
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Shri.Kunjuppu,wonderful write up... Thought provoking points, covering the entire century in a single page!!

Infact, I was tempted to record the first post here, but then thought, let people start some action, and lemme follow the suit..Waited for a week and finally it slipped out of my eyes, until, your prompted it yesterday in another post.


Looks like people are not interested in intergrating with the mainland 'Tamil Tribes'!!!. Neither the TB's Nor T-NB's dont realise the importance of this integration..So, Let me try to highlight some of the drawbacks of this stand.


I was once overhearing a whispering discussion between my uncle who is heading the popular Indian English daily press for a state,and his national H.R head in our house dinner table. After gulping few glasses of wine, they both started to share their love of 'TAMIL'.They said,before 70's, the Indian press was monopolised by TB's.. But after the imaginary dravidian hatred was created, tamils became enemey for their own. Where as Bengali & Kerala Brahmins,in their 'Spirit of Tribe' even recruited Malayalee-Christians and Bengali Haldars, but strictly not a Tamil (both TB /T-NB) thats the scenario now.After 30 yrs, the presence of Tamils (be a TB or T-NB) has dwindled so drastically in the Press Club. They shared an emotional crispy point after bit more of intoxication, "In the process Anti-Brahminism(Tamilians), the losers were the entire Tamil Tribe, not alone Tamil Brahmins

Similarly,during my first job interview in a German MNC Bangalore, the General Manager Mr.SK.Iyer (TB) was very much curious to know 'If Im a Tamilian or Malayalee" (I pity my nasal accent,southie dialect). Upon my authenitcation,it was a cake-walk job.. The company has bit of tamil brahmins Sr.managers and lot more of Tamil NB's too. Official spoken language in that company used to be Tamil, in a land of Kannada. He passed away 8Yrs ago in a cardiac arrest, and his love for people was expressed by the large amount of people gathered for the cremation, including those who moved to different jobs.Out of Nostalgia, I visited the company last year. Quite surprised,there was not even a single tamil in such a huge place.. The non-brahmin-Tamil managers whoom Mr.SK Iyer recruited and nurtured,couldnt help futher the tamil-spirit, like how Mr.Koushik did with passion.. End results,the losers are the entire tamil tribe, just because of the absence of the Tamil Brahmin..



What im infering here is,

TB's having hatred for T-NB's and trying to be serving themselves, excluding the rest of tamil tribes, has resulted in their own loosing grounds.(The Indian press club eg..)

Its a proven fact that, TB's are the greatest contributors for the Tamil Tribes,and without them the TAMIL-Tribe will become handicapped in the long run, which, all the Tamil-Non-Brahmins (so called dravidians) should realise.(eg,my ex-office)


Also there is something, we all should learn from TVS group. 20 Years ago, it was a company packed with Iyengars. Now, all castes of tamils are recruited and the company is flourishing much better than before.


Having said that, one should not sit on the imaginary enemy,ie,60's Dravidianism. The trend in St.George Fort (Kottai), is, Brahmins are definitely not a hatred material..rather. They are no more wanted!! Even Tamil-eelam is not wanted there.. Lets understand the changing times and pro-actively act,instead of blaming it on MUKa/Kazagams/Reservations.. As shri.Kunjuppu rightly said in another thread, SV.Sekhar should join DMK, and be on the winning side.


Someone may feel, reservations has pushed aside TB's..Yes,talents needs to be respected, but not at the cost of the society.. Will Obama lift the Visa-Norms to Indians? Will he let in all the 10Mn IT professional, just because Indians are more talented than their american counterparts? Do we equate Obama with MuKa... Lets be bit realistic here.

Back to T.N..Even now TB are fairly well represented in the TN Govt jobs, but if one expects things to be in the same in line with pre 1930's, then thats an unrealistic demand, and thats the case we need to unseat sonia & bring back British also.. Lets learn from other forwards castes, who has also lost their share in terms of reservation, but they dont cry this way..Instead, they actively joined the mainland tribes, and flourishing in Politics/Trade/education/educational business (supposed to be brahmin forte)etc.. They no-more complain DMK, rather become a part of dravidian parties.. Something one should learn and try.


Now someone may say, look boy!! We moved out of T.N and flourishing in Delhi/U.S.A/S'pore/Gulf... But for me,some day, similar Kazhagam like situation may arise out there too..This is time, even Shia's and Sunni's are fighting. Once tamils migrated to Ceylon and flourished, but now? Tamils were once kicked in Bombay /Karnataka... Australians are bashing Indians now.. In that context,there is something one should learn from Jews.. Their eyes and minds were always in Israel.


So I conclude this way.. Integration of Tamil Brahmins and Tamil Non-Brahmins (in total Tamil Tribe) is the need of the hour.. Without that,the loosers are both parties. If members have realised this point, Im sure , they would pen down their views to work out the modus operandi..Awaiting suggestions from all the participants.. Thanks in advance.
 
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Dear Sri kunjuppu Ji and Sri sapr333,

'Brahmin' comes after 'Tamil'. So, there is no question that anyone who speaks Tamil, who loves Tamil and who is Tamil are our brethren. Sometimes brothers quarrel. So, we are today with the so called 'Dravidians'.

But, from my selfish point of view, we need to find a way to engage and make peace with our 'D' brothers. Because, I am worried about the large ranks of poor in our tribe, who are suffering. There must be ways as to how we come together.

While I do not exactly know these 'ways', I know for sure that blaming the 'D' politics will not resolve our issues. We need to somehow get around this politics to get integrated, for the sake of the disadvantaged in our community.

Regards,
KRS
 
nice discussion.

touchy topic perhaps.

am all for indian integration, though i think the integration already exists.

the divide is only in the mind, created by political idealogues. and we tend to succumb to it, once in a while.

not sure what made sv shekar choose a terrible name like arya munnetra kazhagam. the name seems to contribute to the rubbish divide of aryan and dravidian.

i can only abhor evr for starting all this aryan-dravidian divide.

why do politicans need to bother with history, when their job is about administration and management.

but i suppose this aryan-dravidian ideology is deep rooted.

i was appaled to see the wiki article on iyengars mentioning that vadagalai are indo-aryan racial group and thengalai are dravidian group.

whoever writes such things, can they please prove that indo-aryan is actually a racial group; when everyone is considering it a linguistic group.

not sure since when did people speaking certain languages become a 'racial group'? esp when various indian tribes are simply considered the 'indian race', of the same genetic stock, since indians have minimal genetic differences with one another.

for that matter, all south asians are sub-branches of the same branch of the life tree; the roots and trunk being common to humans world-wide.

can the wording not be changed to mean that 'vadagalai belong to indo-aryan linguistic group' instead of saying 'indo-aryan racial group'? (though i think their native tongue is also tamil).

i think this whole british system of trying to classify south asians, based on race and caste has gotten to all of us; so much that we seek things like aryan as supreme and dravidian as supreme to the extent that it can spur civil war like it did in lanka.

All just because south asians "look (somewhat) different" from each each other, and the historians got fooled by the illusion of the phenotype and perhaps still choose to overlook the genotype. For that matter, i do not resemble my grandparents either, shd i be a different race because i "look different"?

i think it will take some time for people to come around to the idea that movement of people, mingling of ideas, are all part of how civilizations grow, have grown and will grow. And one must not seek to seperate milk from curd from within the curd, after it has already formed into curd. And worse, make politics out of it.

Caste is just a culture, everyone has their freedom to follow their culture without inteference from the other.

The divide, i suppose, is all in the mind. Existing nowhere but within our own mind, if we choose to let it exist.
 
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Dear H.H

>>i was appaled to see the wiki article on iyengars mentioning that vadagalai are indo-aryan racial group and thengalai are dravidian group. >>


If you feel its wrong, pls log in with google ID and edit it.. Before editing, pls do a through study on this.




>>>>i think this whole british system of trying to classify south asians, based on race and caste has gotten to all of us; so much that we seek things like aryan as supreme and dravidian as supreme to the extent that it can spur civil war like it did in lanka. >>>>



One should do some introspection here...Maxmuller did not propound A.I.T to create a divide.. If you read that and also its counter views, its indeed a scholarly work of that time-line where DNA/Carbon-dating was not available.. Dont forget its a THEORY (not invention), like any other scientific theories like Darwin theory, light,Big Bang theory..

The issue here is, during British era it has helped the Brahmins to get closely identified with the Brits(who were pucca racists)..Lets not forget the RSS leader Golwalkar's visit to Germany and subsequent meeting with Mussolini in Italy. Equally, on the later stage, during the weakening of British empire, and starting of statewise electoral legislative set up, same like brahmins, EVR too capitalized on AIT to gather the majority.

The crux of the matter is, AIT is not proved wrong totally...It's neither debunked .. Instead it was shunned now a days by the common public/politicians, as people/politicians, dont want to disturb the peace of the society..(like how we few members in this forum,tried to shun the TajMahal-temple thread, for a good social cause). In recent decades, have you ever heard Karunanidhi talking about AIT/Anti-Brahminism in any dias?


All these give us a green signal that, this is the right time to 'Integrate with Tamil-Tribes..

Anyways, lets wait for Shri.Kujuppus take on this..
 
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Dear Sapr,


If you feel its wrong, pls log in with google ID and edit it.. Before editing, pls do a through study on this.


There is nothing to show that indian castes or linguistic groups are different races. Linguistic groups are certainly not races. The possible definition of a "group" can occur when one has mated within one group so long enough as to produce people who turn up with a repeative pattern common to that group. Even tribals are mixed. So where is race based on the language spoken?

Sometimes these ideas are based on just history, and perhaps history propagated in a particular way.

I wud not want to edit an article if it is possibly going to offend anyone's cultural sensibilities; just in case they are considering something in a particular way.



One should do some introspection here...Maxmuller did not propound A.I.T to create a divide.. If you read that and also its counter views, its indeed a scholarly work of that time-line where DNA/Carbon-dating was not available.. Dont forget its a THEORY (not invention), like any other scientific theories like Darwin theory, light,Big Bang theory..

i wud not compare big bang (of physics) and darwin's origin of species (of biology) with one another, nor wud i compare a theory based on history with either of them. Inter-disciplinary subjects happen when there is sufficient basis of commonality in them, to create a better understanding. Like biological anthropology combined with genetic studies of castes, or like some subjects in biophysics, an outcome of an inter-disciplinary mingling of topics in biology and physics.


The issue here is, during British era it has helped the Brahmins to get closely identified with the Brits(who were pucca racists)..Lets not forget the RSS leader Golwalkar's visit to Germany and subsequent meeting with Mussolini in Italy. Equally, on the later stage, during the weakening of British empire, and starting of statewise electoral legislative set up, same like brahmins, EVR too capitalized on AIT to gather the majority.

Yep, so the idea that people of different linguistic groups and castes belong to different races was a brit created one. It came about in the colonial times. And yes it was some brahmins who supported the idea of them being a different race. They considered themselves closer to the european, based on looks. And it served a political agenda.

Yes sure it is true, as it is seen from some studies, that there is a greater admixture of what is considered european or indo-european into indian, seen in a greater frequency in certain groups. But again we are talking of 'admixture', like an 'input' into an existing substrate. The substrate wud not be seperate races to being with.

And regarding admixture, how did it happen? Let me give you the example of the tsou tribe of taiwan, supposed to be the tribe that is considerered the mother of all austroasiatic linguistic groups. Its a closely held endogamous tribe
with branches, one branch is considered the northern branch and the other southern. And within that they have a few branches.

Some of the tsou absorbed the fleeing dutch soilders into them, they married, produced children. The children will ofcourse match with both, the tsou and the dutch. After very many years, some of them may be fair like the dutch, but with the flat features of the chinese. Some may be yellowy like the chinese but with dutch features like light eyes and elevated nose bridge.

After very many years, if they lived in a tropical climate, they wud look really dark as well,
with a mix of facial features. How wud a historian classify them; if he had NOT known about the dutch admixture into them. What if they had stories like puranic ones and wore costumes like the yakshagana and recounted native tales with music and dance, that the british historians or survey men cud not understand or did not take into account.

And then were the tsou a seperate race to being with. They already had branches in them. They already must have received input into them from the other chinese tribes. During war, populations get admixed brutally. During peace, they get mingled up in love. The subsequent generation can show up both, as being similar to their native lingusitic group, as well as to the people with which that group was fighting with.

I guess you have heard that there is no diff b/w people of certain castes and muslims in certain geographical regions. During peace, there were these trade routes, of people travelling along the silk route. Its very much possible that when merchants travel or stay away from their families for a long time, they have a second family in an other place. Or exchange of brides and grooms can happen to forge trade ties, political ties, etc. So people can be similar to a trading group or warring group from the northwest. There are also indians who can show up with what can be termed as a recent admixture from the northwest into their populations; for various other reasons.

Does language and habits make the tsao a race? Yes, a historian or a physical anthropologist can base them that way, because the understanding of those schools maybe such. But in all likelihood a genetist or a biological anthropologist wud not call them a seperate race at all.

A language certainly does not mean race.



The crux of the matter is, AIT is not proved wrong totally...It's not neither debunked .. Instead it was shunned now a days by the common public/politicians, as people/politicians dont want to disturb the peace of the society..(like how we few members in this forum,tried to shun the TajMahal-temple thread, for a good social cause). In recent decades, have you ever heard Karunanidhi talking about AIT/Anti-Brahminism in any dias?

Have explained the best i cud above. Aryan is not a race.

A member in the tajmahal thread first called it a temple, then a palace. To serve a hindutva ideology perhaps. If ppl shunned it, it was bcoz those ppl do not beleive things of the past can be rectified now, by means of asserting a lop-sided political-hindu ideology or pulling down a mosque.

I have never heard karunanidhi speaking on any dias, i have only seen him in news and have read his interviews. Politicians seem to have realized that people vote you back only if you have benefitted them in some way. Why shd the public at large bother at all if someone either wants a marriage with saptapadi or a self-respect one.



All these give us a green signal that, this is the right time to 'Integrate with Tamil-Tribes..

Anyways, lets wait for Shri.Kujuppus take on this..


Am wondering what are the ways of integration. To me, both, the integration and the divide, exists more in the mind than elsewhere. I'd love to hear from you, kunjuppu-ji and krs-ji on this.
 
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Dear HH, I fairly well agree with the previous post..


>>>To me, both, the integration and the divide, exists more in the mind than elsewhere.>>>

Perfectly said....

Lets jot something , towards Integration with TamilTribes....Lets explore some ways and social engineering to bring awareness...
 
Lets jot something , towards Integration with TamilTribes....Lets explore some ways and social engineering to bring awareness...

Sapr,

For me currently it is all in the mind because:

a) some brahmins and some tamils may consider themselves different from each other.

b) some brahmins and some non-brahmin tamils may consider the tamil brahmin as aryan / dravidian (and even as a diff race).

c) some brahmins may consider themselves as superior. And some non-brahmin tamils may consider the brahmins as oppressors of the past.

d) some brahmins may feel that they have the right to decide varnas of other people and of themselves based on dharmashastras, though others themselves often do not consider the dharmashastras as applicable to them.

e) some brahmins may not wish to move from the past into the present. Like some may not accept that "democracy" has its own law books in the smilar way that the dharmashastras were law books for different kingdoms / jurisdictions in the past. Like the current lawyers, law-makers and judges cud be considered the dharma class of today since they too are supposed to live a life of practicing certain qualities like non-covetousness (aparigraha, certainly no bribes), always be alert, no coming under the influence of alcohol, etc (like some yama, niyama principles), etc.

Just that in the ancient past, the hindu tribes had no christians and muslims, and today the law of the land has to organize a lot more people of different kinds into its legal framework. And organizing people based on definitive occupations, definitive roles of each group in a vedic yagna, etc is not possible in today's legal framework

f) some brahmins may consider secularism as an india only for hindus where birth-based roles are supposed to be followed. This can come across a rightist political ideology instead of genuine concern for their brotherhood in the present time.

Social engineering ways? hmmm..lemme be honest, i don't seem to like the term social engineering. It cud mean interference, and forcing one to give up or take up something.

On the contrary, i think the industrialized society has already created various types of new jobs, occupation groups, different kinds of mingling platforms, given us democracy, freedom of choice and so on.

Now the only thing that exists is to remove the idea that one is different from the other.

Two people following two different cultures, lifestyles, functions, occupations, roles only "appear" as different; but are really not different at all. Each is an integral part of a 'complete picture". I do not believe in infringing upon anyone's wish to live his life his own way.
 
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Sapr,


On the contrary, i think the industrialized society has already created various types of new jobs, occupation groups, different kinds of mingling platforms, given us democracy, freedom of choice and so on.

Now the only thing that exists is to remove the idea that one is different from the other.

Dear HH,

This is exactly what I said 2 months ago in one of my post quoting 'John Lennon's Imagine song'..

But in a second, I got a rejoinder from Shri.Nacchinakiniyan asking me...""Boy, are you expecting the one world to be of McDonalds,Burgers, hot dogs and sandwiches.. Im ok with Curd Rice, Avial,mangai vadu oorukai(pickle) and Idli-vada for break-fast" He cited the food habits of Chettinad...He is right too in claiming, its not the caste counts here, its a culture".. I realised Im wrong here.. Yes, its the respective culture, and we cannot/shouldnot globalise it.. May be, we need another great revolutionaries like Buddha, Adi Shankara, J.C to solve this dilemma..

In this context, I feel, a focus on TamilTribes is worth a subject to discuss.. And I admire/salute Shri.Kunjuppu for taking an initiative on this..
 
it is an interesting but true fact, that under today's reservation laws in tamil nadu - children of c.n. annadurai, nedunchezhian and anbazhagan, would not qualify for the reserved quota, as they are classified as belonging to forward castes (!).

we happen to chum with a close relative of one of the above. their neice procurred 92% in +2, but was denied medical school admission in tamil nadu. opted for one, out of state.

such is the reality affecting even dmk founding leaders. the dravidian revolution, i think, has moved on to new phases, where it is the social bottom occupants of the hindu caste hierarchy, who are flexing their muscles.

i think it is a good think for tamil hinduism in the long run. absence of it, probably caused a lot more conversions to christianity a few generations ago.

i see one of the biggest obstacles to the integration of brahmins into the tamil fold being the brahmin influenced newspapers ie hindu, dinamalar, thuglaq and vikatan.

over the years, these papers have catered to their own narrow selfish ends, and it is unfortunate, that these are perceived as voices of tamil brahmins. if so, they have backstabbed the interests of their community very thoroughly.

unfortunately, these are the mediums through which the majority of tamil brahmins view the news of tamil nadu. none of these papers ever stop to give some thought as to how to improve the lot of poor brahmins or for integrating into the tamil fold.

we are not as isolated as it seems. especially at the higher level. i happen to attend a non brahmin society wedding in february of this year in chennai. i got to meet stalin and shake hands with him. MK would have attended but for his hospitalization.

the big shots among the local brahmin establishment were there. but what was remarkable, was during the pre wedding mehndi celebrations, celebrated with pomp, music, disco dancing and drinks, brahmins were as well represented as any other community and were part of the conviviality throughout.

where i live in canada, however, the brahmins keep aloof from other tamil crowds. increasingly so, with the newer arrivals, which are younger and more conservative.

there appear to be a virulent hatred of dmk and MK, and also of their sense of superiority. some have even gone on record to say that without tamil brahmins, there would have been no i.t. revolution in india.

such talk and belief, did not come of its own. it is something that has been fed from generation to generation. i see hints and traces of it here, in this forum too, in other threads.

nothing could be farther from the truth, re our supposed superiority. given a chance to educate, within two or three generations, people develop the ease to acquiring knowledge. perhaps this is what the social engineering aspect of the quotas are all about? i don't know.

but what i know for sure, is that, in the international standings of knowledge base, we are not recognized players, as a group. it was a great shock to me, coming to canada years ago, to see that chinese and jews could beat us at almost everything.

per my upbringing and indoctrination, it should not have been possible. after all, the chinese eat everything that moves. the jews eat beef, which is supposed to dull your brains. i have had so many misconceptions of other groups, which i have had to unlearn over the years.

fortunately, none of this, i imparted to my children. they are comfortable hindus and wear their religion with ease and pride, and without the hangups of my forebears. to me, that would be a tremendous burden and handicap to pass on to the next generation.

one of my first posts in this forum, encapsulated my view of all the posts and the concerns. at that time, i made a remark, that it is very important, that tamil brahmin parents ensure that the right values are imparted to their children, to enable them to fit into the communities where they live, mingle and accept/be accepted and become part of the society.

there was criticism at this observation, as it was felt, that tamil brahmin parents, in the face of several challenges, were doing a great job handing the values of their children. i was not so sure then. i am still not so sure.

i believe, that our children, should be encouraged to build their body and brains. with equal vigour. a strong body builds a confidence that not only projects confidence, but also a deterrent to bullying and teasing.

also, i see so many ads and word of mouth requests for household live in helps - just brahmins. this usually followed by laments of betrayal, as those persons moved on to greener pastures.

we may as well start looking outside our commmunities, only because we can then avail of a larger pool of candidates. there may be better fits. i can say the same of youngsters looking for spouses. look for a fit of temperment, habits as these contribute more to long term contentment, than a hurried match performed through matching of stars.

patriotism. somehow, i think, there is a feeling among us, that among the tamil tribes, we are the most patriotic vis a vis india and its integrity. the majority of the soldiers who give up their lives for our motherland are non brahmins.

many of these have come from tamil nadu too. as a community, we have not shed blood for the country in any notable numbers. it bothers me very much, when such jingoistic claims are made, especially under the cloak of the hindutva lenses.

i think it is attitudes like this, that do us great harm vis a vis our relations to other tamil communities. i think a significant contribution to such thoughts and encouragement to it, comes from brahmins residing outside of the country and perhaps outside of the state.

these cause bad feelings, which we dump on our brethren living in tamil nadu, to face the consequences. particularly our less fortunate ones. it is high time, each of us, in our own way, give some serious thought, as to what we can do to ameliorate the lot of chavundis and such like. we cannot wait for some grandiose edifice to be constructed before aid starts trickling in.

thank you.
 
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Dear HH,

This is exactly what I said 2 months ago in one of my post quoting 'John Lennon's Imagine song'..

But in a second, I got a rejoinder from Shri.Nacchinakiniyan asking me...""Boy, are you expecting the one world to be of McDonalds,Burgers, hot dogs and sandwiches.. Im ok with Curd Rice, Avial,mangai vadu oorukai(pickle) and Idli-vada for break-fast" He cited the food habits of Chettinad...He is right too in claiming, its not the caste counts here, its a culture".. I realised Im wrong here.. Yes, its the respective culture, and we cannot/shouldnot globalise it.. May be, we need another great revolutionaries like Buddha, Adi Shankara, J.C to solve this dilemma..

In this context, I feel, a focus on TamilTribes is worth a subject to discuss.. And I admire/salute Shri.Kunjuppu for taking an initiative on this..

Dear Sapr,

What i meant was not infringing upon anyone's right to live his life his own way. And accepting people with each one's own way of life. Like i accept myself with what i see or imagine to be as 'faults' in me and others.

Why not celebrate all forms of cultures instead of trying to homogenize them or point out faults in them just because we yield to politically created social pressure.

Variety is the spice of life. We only "imagine" that we are different. Actually we are not. This is what i meant by creating awareness. Just creating whole-hearted acceptance, allowing each one to live his life his own way.

Reg revolutionaries like Buddha, Adi Shankara, etc; lets face it. They propagate something, but something else is made out of it.

Buddha supposedly did not believe in idol worship, but what have his followers created. Buddists offer worship at statues of buddha that are supposed to the largest in all world. If Buddha were to come back, he wud wonder at mahayana, hinayana, zen, and various versions of what he taught and wud wonder if that was what he spoke of in the first place.

Adi Shankara's advaitha and commentry on brahmasutra did not emphasize on any rituals, but his followers are ritual-bound dharmashastra followers. Jesus Christ taught the path to bliss, but what his followers created was a church that hardly represents what christ taught (had mentioned this in the why am not a hindu thread).

It is people themselves, in their quest for exclusiveness, that 'use' various spiritual paths to create an identity for themselves.

Even if a new messaih were to come now, after about a 1000 years, his teachings will end up as the domain of a group with an identity, either as a religion, or as a caste, and wud become one of the many "isms" we already have like buddhism, jainism, sikhism, hinduism, islamism, christianity, judaism, etc.

If we get around to seeing that we indeed are not different from each other, what each of us professes is merely a chosen path, not meant to infringe upon a fellow man's life desire to life in his life in his own way; then where is the "difference" at all in each of us?

It really is all in the mind, just in the way we think.

Dear shri Kunjuppu-ji,

Enjoyed reading thru this yet again. The feeling of being and feeling isolated and persecuted is but natural in a place where they faced it. But the perils of holding on to something generation after generation cud come across as somewhat unnecessary, but then there is the feeling of immense hurt.

If its isolationism that the political leaders wanted, then they got it. The gnawing will of some brahmins to set things right, now appears so rightist, wonder if it has led anyone to indulge in anti-social activities.

Am wondering why are these distances being created in (in the mind) in the non-political social context. And what wud be the better ways to go about handling it, if at all it can be addressed. Waiting to hear more from you sir.
 
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I, regarding our less fortunate agree with all the sayings above. But the issue is still open. How do we go about helping to integrate our less fortunate brethren in to the 'Daravidian' culture, so that they can escape from the poverty in their lives?

Regards,
KRS
 
I, regarding our less fortunate agree with all the sayings above. But the issue is still open. How do we go about helping to integrate our less fortunate brethren in to the 'Daravidian' culture, so that they can escape from the poverty in their lives?

Regards,
KRS

Shri. KRS, the approach/purpose here is 'not' to integrate the less fortunate alone, .... just for making them escape the poverty. Thats definitely a selfish social approach, which eventually will get exposed and fail miserably.

The mission here is to integrate it as 'ONE TAMIL TRIBE' / integrate with the mainland tamils, or TN, which is indeed a flourishing state now. In that process, the growth of the alienated, will also flourish in line with the mainland, in terms of economy,job participation, higher literacy, social recognision etc etc..A rich can still become richer by this integration.. Rich TB's are not looted by this anti-brahminic sentiments..

Do you think the rich living in U.S doenst need to integrate with the mainstream...Then you are wrong..

Rich companies like TVS are still well integrated with the mainland Tribe by mergining well with Tamiltribe.... They have all set their main factories in T.N, even in Dharmapuri dt, instead of taking an exodus to 'Dilli' or to auto capital cities like Delhi/Puna,Gujrath or Bombay...Well respected movie star, Kamalahassan is yet another eg... Why people who love and adore Kamalahassan so much, so to keep 100ft cutouts, but chose to shun Cho & Subramoniaaswamy?....

I think Shri.Kujuppu can share some good thoughts on this..
 
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The mission here is to integrate it as 'ONE TAMIL TRIBE' / integrate with the mainland tamils, or TN, which is indeed a flourishing state now. In that process, the growth of the alienated, will also flourish in line with the mainland, in terms of economy,job participation, higher literacy, social recognision etc etc..A rich can still become richer by this integration.. Rich TB's are not looted by this anti-brahminic sentiments..

I have a small prob with the usage of the word "tribe". there are certain things that need to be qualified for a group to be called a tribe. a linguistic group is certainly not a tribe. I suppose it wud be better to use the actual tamil word "inam" than the english "tribe" bcoz "inam" can convey a lot more things than the english "tribe" can convey.

To me, again all this appears a problem that has come about bcoz of claims. The brahmins claim to be aryan. the non-brahmin claims to be dravidian.

But this situation of tamil brahmins is really unique. Its bcoz some brahmins themselves claim to be different from the other tamilians, because they follow a different way of life than the other tamils. Some non-brahmins (politically conscious ones) considers the brahmin different because he feels the brahmin is not following the same lifestyle as him.

I have never come across a maharashtrian brahmin, a telugu brahmin, or a punjabi brahmin who considers himself as not a maharashtrian, telugu or punjabi. Neither are the non-brahmins in various linguistic groups treating their brahmins as different from their own linguistic group.

The brahmins in those various linguistic groups too follow a brahmanical way of life. Then why are they not claiming to be different? And why are people in those groups not considering their brahmins as different from themselves?

Is it ever possible that everyone on earth can follow the same way of life, or do the same job, or eat the same food day in and day out. How do ppl ever become different just because they have their own way of life?

If we "imagine" we are different, then we will be invoking the difference. Wud it not be better to create awareness that people are not different just because they follow myriad cultures. Are we not a beautiful human race, not matter how different we look.

As regards the tamil brahmin, no matter what culture each follows, can they not have the freedom of choice to live their own life their own way?

Wud it not be better to address things like poverty instead of asking ppl to adapt to a culture that they are not familiar with. wud it not be sheer violation of a human's freedom of choice..
 
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11>>>>i have a small prob with the usage of the word "tribe". >>>

.

22>>>but this situation of tamil brahmins is really unique. its more bcoz brahmins themselves claim to be different from the other tamilians, because they feel that they are following a different way of life than the other tamils.>>>>>as regards the tamil brahmin, no matter what culture each follows, can they not have the freedom of choice to life their own life their own way?


Dear HH,

It seems, Shri.Kunjupu has really anticipated your question in advance.. Infact, while opening this thread he saw a different kind of opinion raising again, in yet another thread.. Look, how carefully/diplomatically he worded it on his Post header #1...clip from his post.

i will use the term tamil tribes as opposed to inam. elsewhere, in this forum, the concept of inam, has been found painfully unpatriotic. but the belief in tamil inam is widespread in tamil nadu. we cannot simply wish it away. it exists.

our own bharathiayaar, parithimaar kalaignar, and to an extent naa parthasarathy, all, subscribed to the concept of tamil inam, and our due place in it.

so if we treat the word inam clinically, and without the socio political connotations of late, it might indeed be the appropriate word to smith. but i will desist.

again, i think, the tamil tribe concept is all encompassing to include the other southern linguist groups. which is why, when someone points out that periyar was a kannadiga, vaiko is a telugu or mgr is a malayalee, it falls on deaf tamil ears.

tamil nadu has generally been generous in accommodating immigrants.



Regarding your second point, the crux of the thread is not about 'Cultural Integration'. Yes,every one has a unique culture and it needs to be preserved and protected, as long as it doesnt harm the human-race.. Anyways, You will come to know , once posts start pouring in.
 
Regarding your second point, the crux of the thread is not about 'Cultural Integration'. Yes,every one has a unique culture and it needs to be preserved and protected, as long as it doesnt harm the human-race.. Anyways, You will come to know , once posts start pouring in.


Dear Sapr,

Then what would you suggest are the ways of integration of the brahmins with the tamil tribes?

And is it the need of the hour because of politically created social pressure?

All indians are considering the tamil brahmins as tamilian only. But it is some brahmins and some politically conscious non-brahmins who are considering both as different from one other.
 
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i think, we as tamil brahmin, even while feeling alienated or set-apart these past few generations, are integrating - somewhere, to some group, and to the detriment of our identity in toto.

identity is an issue, i think, closely tied to numbers. for example, the christians have an identity as followers of jesus but within this forest and numerous trees, all more or less of the same hue but different variety.

so too is tamil hinduism.

it was only a little over 50 years ago, to the best of my knowledge, there was a marriage outside our caste in my family. a young female relative with a baby daughter was widowed and had to go for a job to make ends and honour meet.

when she fell in love with a nayar youth, who promised not only to care for her, but adopt the daughter as his own, an overwhelming number among the extended family derided. but for one elderly wise man. glad to say that this story had a happy ending for both the mother and child, but the ending came outside of brahmindom.

nowadays, out of caste marriage, seldom even raises eyebrows. if my family could be considered among the average (!) among us, then here is a summation of our experiences with such unions.

the most common has been marriage to north indians. maybe because there were more migrations up north. these were the first
to be broadly accepted, even with boast of improving national integration. the children of these unions, moved away from their tamil moorings, and further entrenched themselves in the out of tamilnadu culture.

those instances of marriage to muslims or christians, were more radical in their severance, as in almost all cases, the family had nothing to do with their children, post marriage. the children of these unions also moved to the non hindu heritage, though may not be non tamil in some cases.

those of us, who have settled in the west, find that we are unwilling or unable to participate in the selection of spouses for our children. to me it is a good thing, for in these complex days, with the spouse selection based on so many porutham factors, it is best left to participants themselves. it also means, that there will be less of tamil in the following generations, as these tend to integrate with the melting pot of ethnic mix of the west.

we have a few who married non brahmin tamil hindus and still reside in tamil nadu. one case is always an example to me. my girl cousin married a chettiar a few years ago. the family, accepted him with a vengeance and before long, iyerized this guy. the cousin household is a brahmin household, and the children brought up as brahmins. i wish there were more of such cases, as this is the only way, we can continue to exist in viable numbers in tamil nadu.

i wish only that the best of our erudition, work ethic, thrift and appreciation of the arts be handed down further. i wish that the worst of our prejudices and all the negatives that go along with it, just disappear with us. marriage across other tamil hindus, and bringing them to our fold, i think, will probably guarantee not only the continuation of tamil brahmins as a tribe within the tamil fold, but will remove any misgivings the other tamil tribes might have against us.

without this change in our attitude, we might be left with the worst of our namesakes, to carry on our name, but none of the best in our tradition. worse still, we might become yet another museum piece to the fabric of indian ethnicities, joining the lot of jews, armenians and parsis. time alone will tell.

q.e.d.
 
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very nice post kunjuppu-ji.

just for the discussion's sake, lemme give my side of the scene as it see it.

my family too witnessed mariages across varying communities.

i happened to be digging, abt who is related to who and i discovered that one of my grandmum's cousins (who was around my mum's age) eloped and married a muslim. i did not even know such a family member existed - the split so full and complete. later i got to hear that her life was a happy one.

my mum's father was the kind that spent nearly an hour painting a namam on his forehead every morning, he was bed-ridden, his hands wud tremble, but he was bound to his beleifs. his son chose his own bride, of a totally different upbringing from the north. the supposed same caste made no difference at all, the son modernized himself as much as he cud, then gave up. they lived away.

i mention both these cases of the previous generation, because its all considered so common place in the present generation.

being the same caste did not bring happiness to a couple, being different religions did not prevent a couple from finding happiness.

it is such a blessing to be able to find love; and religion, caste, money matters, etc shd not matter at all..

generally i tend to see people prefering someone who lived in the same culture as they did, in match-made or arranged relationships

I have also seen people preferring the same or similar background in people who end up falling or feeling love for one another.

All said and done, i think marriage, divorce, choice of partner, etc is a very private issue.

i do not think marriage can ever be used as a tool to create an integration (of an imagined difference), if tehre is something like that being conveyed on this thread.

and not all inter-religion, inter-caste marriages are happy ones. its such a gamble.

there was this very pretty girl. her father owned a fertilizer factory, made not less than 5 lacs a month in the 80s and 90s.

this girl was raised the very sheltered cloistered way, in a religious family, was a simpleton. she fell in love with her schoolmate, had no other friends, and announced her decision to marry him while just 19.

her parents were devastated, but the boy's parents (so-called dalit christians) came home, convinced them.

with a heavy heart they married off their daughter. she converted to be a christian after their child was born a year later. after 5 years of marriage, she committed suicide, leaving behind a young child.

she never spoke of her troubles. everyone thot she was happy, but it seems she cud never adjust in the boy's home. from food to everything, she seems to have had a mental-block with several things.

it also seems she cud not tolerate comments made by her in-laws, who neighbours say made demands of money and treated her real bad. her father had given them a very nice house with a large garden. he did everything to ensure she did not have to live in difficult surroundings. yet the in-laws wanted more and more.

she received parental support during delivery, etc. she wud visit her parents often and all that, at one point things seemed okay, but she hanged herself suddenly. No one knew the suicide was coming.

it was such a lesson learnt. for quite a few unmarried youngsters, they became painfully aware of how tuf it can be to adjust in a family with a totally different culture.

so far all those who have inter-married across diff religions, castes, have all gone overseas where such things hardly matter.

i suppose it was the result of living in the same city handling the expectation of the in-laws, complexes of the husband, not being allowed to attend family gatherings of her family's side, etc..

i have given this elaborate example to show how badly inter-community marriages can go, if the couple is not mature enuf to handle it.

ppl say that even her marriage was not so much as a problem as her character of being an introvert was.

this example apart, i have seen very succesful hindu-christian couples.

i suppose marriages are best left to each one's choice. yet, if a couple discovers much later in marriage that they are incompatible, what can be done.

arranged marriages are not spared of divorces.

with all these complexities of relationships, am really wondering how can marriages be considered a tool to integrate.

is it not better to just accept people as they are with the so-called differences in their culture.

lets say a bride or a groom, upon marriage into a brahmin family, finds it all very nice, but is not inclined towards being brahminised, then what happens..
 
Dear Happy Hindu,

I read your post and was bit touching too..

Anyways, I pressed CTRL+F+Tamil+Tribe... the search ended NIL....

The story you narrated is totally apart from what Shri.Kunjuppu's driving point.. Hope Im not seen here as fanatic..
 
Dear Happy Hindu,

I read your post and was bit touching too..

Anyways, I pressed CTRL+F+Tamil+Tribe... the search ended NIL....

The story you narrated is totally apart from what Shri.Kunjuppu's driving point.. Hope Im not seen here as fanatic..

Am still talking abt sri kunjuppu-ji's point of integration Sapr.

Within the nadar, tehre is hindu and christian, do they inter-marry? Or do they consider themselves as same and respect each other's culture?

Does not such a scenario exist now? We do consider each other as the same, and we do have respect for each other's culture.

What am trying to say is that we are already integrated. Those that imagine the differences are possible the ones not able to accept existing similarities, but seeking to make a common culture for all. That, i think is being impracticle.
 
Sri sapr333,

I just did not express myself well. Yes, we all need to integrate. But if do not, the ill will fall disproportionately on my communitie's poor. That's all I meant.

With all due respect, I do not think that we the TBs are doing enough to uplift our own poor(not that we are doing enough to uplift others).

I see the plight of such poor in my community first (charity begins at home) and so my heart aches. That's all.

Regards,
KRS

Shri. KRS, the approach/purpose here is 'not' to integrate the less fortunate alone, .... just for making them escape the poverty. Thats definitely a selfish social approach, which eventually will get exposed and fail miserably.

The mission here is to integrate it as 'ONE TAMIL TRIBE' / integrate with the mainland tamils, or TN, which is indeed a flourishing state now. In that process, the growth of the alienated, will also flourish in line with the mainland, in terms of economy,job participation, higher literacy, social recognision etc etc..A rich can still become richer by this integration.. Rich TB's are not looted by this anti-brahminic sentiments..

Do you think the rich living in U.S doenst need to integrate with the mainstream...Then you are wrong..

Rich companies like TVS are still well integrated with the mainland Tribe by mergining well with Tamiltribe.... They have all set their main factories in T.N, even in Dharmapuri dt, instead of taking an exodus to 'Dilli' or to auto capital cities like Delhi/Puna,Gujrath or Bombay...Well respected movie star, Kamalahassan is yet another eg... Why people who love and adore Kamalahassan so much, so to keep 100ft cutouts, but chose to shun Cho & Subramoniaaswamy?....

I think Shri.Kujuppu can share some good thoughts on this..
 
I see the plight of such poor in my community first (charity begins at home) and so my heart aches.

sigh...only wish there were elders like you in my family....i wud have been rich!!

(context: those unmarried and ones with no kids gave away stuff elsewhere instead of the next of kin :( )
 
Sri sapr333,
With all due respect, I do not think that we the TBs are doing enough to uplift our own poor(not that we are doing enough to uplift others).

I see the plight of such poor in my community first (charity begins at home) and so my heart aches. That's all.
KRS

Shri.KRS, I would start my post with a small personal request.. Adding a salutation (Shri) to my handle name, either pains me (or ) take me to Cloud No.9, which I think, I dont deserve at this stage of my life.....I would be content with the term 'Dear' or just the handle name..

Back to point...Idiom of 'Charity begins at home, pertains to the words exchanged between a Person& family.Its like saying to your younger brother, "You ought to stay in and look after your father. Charity begins at home"..

When it comes to society, there is a perfect Tamil idiom/adage which says' Oorar Pillayai Ooti Vazharthal than pillai thaane Vazharum"..meaning, Feed the world, the world will take care of your children. I think, this one commands a higer moral standard. btw, 'Feed The World' is also a popular concept in the west..A term which became popular in 1984, after the rock band 'Band Aid's 'Feed The World' global tour..

Earlier in one of of my post I have talked about my ex.boss Later.Mr.SK.Iyer,... how he meticulously groomed and brought up both TBs & T-NB's in their carreer. I happend to meet one of my counter part, who worked with me that time.. A NB who carried no iota of anti-brahminsm (cos Sk.Iyer helped and groomed him) and he still ows a great regard for his boss, and wants to reciprocate the goodness, what his boss has done... And he is an ardent fan of him...He narrated me a sad story few months ago over phone..

An iyengar girl from a remote village (pucca villager he says) in Ramnad dist. with an M.A degree in English literature, had applied for a job by post (not even e-mail).. Without any second thought, he shortlisted the resume (In resume,he noticed the Iyengar name in her fater name), because deep in his heart, he had a wish to recriprocate the help what he enjoyed from his ex.boss (A spirit of tamil tribe).. The girl along with her father came for the interview, staring at all the high rise buildings, lifts and escalators.. Seems to be from an abject poor family.. She is the only M.A degree holder amogst those participants.. He asked his subordinate (TB) to conduct the interview,alas, he straight away rejected her, cos she couldnt speak English.. This NB, out of his true Tamil Tribe spirit and as well towards his idea of reciprocating what good his boos Mr.Sk.Iyer did to him, he got adrenaline pumped to recruit her... May be purely out of tamil tribe spirit.. Then he questioned his subordinate, why that girl with M.A degree was not selected? Trespassed, and took a call to directly interview her , and passed an edict,that she has been selected, inspite of knowing that she is not up to the mark ('at the moment' ) but for sure with all her educational qualification, she would shine in future... Appointment letter was sent, and she joined promptly..

And my friend knows very well,that she will find diffcult for few months to tune to this metro environment, and hence, he put her under another TB, so that, she would be taken care of and moulded..Unfortunately,he raised a big complaint directly to my friends boos, that she is not a talented candidate, though he was personally kind to her.. And my friends boos, who is also a Brahmin (not TB), who took a task on my friend for his life for recruiting her...It has gone to an extend, that the poor girl was dumped in to the dept of my friend, and he was asked to mould her or fire her.. And he said, he is at the moment on accomplishing this goal....

The point I was driving here is not that TB's were not helping each other/non-unity etc etc. ... My specific view here is, If you help a Tamil -NB's, they do reciprocate.. If telugus/Malayalees/forward castes could enjoy a good harmonious life in T.N, why not a Tamil-Brahmin?.. If 'Vanthaarai Vazha Vaikum Tamilagam could help a malayalee/telugu(hindu) to become Chief Ministers, why not a Tamil Brahmin? btw, dont forget, when TB's took exodus to dilli, JJ stayed there an become a Cheif Minister... Not sure if Delhites would have made JJ as C.M... Thats some thing one need to ponder about the importance of integrating with tamil tribes.

Blaming on DMK/EVR/reservations are no more relevant in todays context..

Are we helping the fellow Tamil Inam (as Shri.Kunjppu calls often Inam/Tribe) if not monetarily, atleast to satisfy his passions?.....If a telugu speaking Vaiko could say 'En Tamil Iname', whats stops a TB to speak the same tone? After all TB's are the highest contributors to Tamil literature, and are the one's who preserved the language for millenia, not Vaiko/MGR....How come a malayalee MGR could command a tamil movie stardom?

Are we still in the British era, enjoying maxmullers AIT? I havent heard any one here saying 'tamil tribes' are the largest in American IT domain(off course statistics say Telugus are dominating)?Im not talking about Tamil fanatism here.. As Shri.Kunjuppu in his own diplomatic style, said in the header message, T.N has been more accomodative and a cosmopoliton like..., for all southies were comfortably accomodated as Tamils.. We never kicked out Kannadigas/Bombay wallas, inspite of them kicking tamilians out..

So in such a good environment, whats stops a TB in integrating with the mainland tamiltribe?

Someone may say Im a 'Paper Tiger".. but then, with the lively eg of my ex boss, but for sure he could change the persepectives of atleast 40 Engg Graduate Tamil Tribes (incl NB and T-NB).. He integrated them, with his good intentions like Shri.Kunjuppu....

Me a 'paper tiger' would be content, if I could change atleast, one heart of a TB/T-NB to agree with shri.Kunjuppus view on 'Integration with Tamil Tribes", in this forum.. My job ,like a Common Man of RK.Laxman's cartoon will stand acoomplished. May be, I'll try some proselytization techniques here with a missionary zeal, to drive my point on Tamil-Tribes..
 
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Dear Sapr,

Am just curious.

What you boss did, the fact that JJ bcame CM, etc all seem to point to the fact that have been saying all along -- that integration already exists.

If tehre was no integration wud your ex-boss, collegues, etc have done what they did? Wud JJ have bcome CM?

The 'lack of integration' seems to exist only on the minds of some TBs and some NBs, of the politically consious kind.
 
Dear Sapr,

If tehre was no integration wud your ex-boss, collegues, etc have done what they did? Wud JJ have bcome CM?

The 'lack of integration' seems to exist only on the minds of some TBs and some NBs, of the politically consious kind.

Dear Happy,

You have a valid point..But when we look around the posts elsewhere, or look at what's in the minds of the younger generation, there is definitely a sense of alienation... Sadest part is,these generations have much later to AnnaDurai regimes.. Even their fathers would have born much later to Anti-Brahminism era/EVR.. Wonder how the difference was created in their minds.


This is a generic feeling ,which Im expressing, is based what I observed, may not 100% true.Thats why I requested Shri.Kujuppu to start this thread. I thought, there would be bombardment of posts, like how it was in 'Whyimhindu' thread.. But not takers for two weeks, until I sneaked in. That gives me feel, people are not intested to talk about Integration..

Or lets take the recent redisigning of the forum.. The TAMIL AUM didnt come automatically from the heart.. I think it was not there since day 1, until Shri.Kunjuppu/TBS pointed out.

Somewhere else in this forum Shri.Kujuppu rightly said, '' Sri-lankan issue, we missed a great opportunity to win the confidence of Tamil tribes"....What a thoughtful point... Someone may quickly shoot back, 'Are you asking me to Support a terrorist?''' A way of disgressing without understanding the core theme..

In the forthcoming posts, lets discuss the opportunities/action plan for this integration.
 
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