Ignorant opinions or mistaken notions...?

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

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Two posts recently done under a different thread -

Originally Posted by Sankara View Post
Observations of a (non-IT) Indian American:

Brahmins (keepers of the traditions of the most disgusting religion ever devised, Hinduism, that counts in its canon, the laws of Manu, that equate caste-perpetuation with spirituality) are 4% of India and 40% of its civil service (any wonder India is so messed up?) and 80% of its IT diaspora. The vast majority of these IT imports are doing nothing irreplaceable and in point of fact are depressing wages. Confronted by the reality of the underdog status in a foreign land, you'd think they'd develop an empathy for the people down the pecking order back home they actively or passively oppressed. But that is not the case, instead these morons fund regressive casteist organizations in India. And have no respect for the history of African Americans and their struggle for civil rights derisively referring to them as "kallus". Absolutely nothing would be lost by sending these retrograde specimens back where they came from.

To quell speculation, declare myself, born a Brahmin but have actively renounced Hinduism, product of IITM & IISc, two-decade resident of the US, travel widely and have followed the growth of the IT community in the US. The civil service stat is an aggregate of centre and states while the IT diaspora stat is limited to the US and based on my observation. Savoring India's categorical rejection of casteist forces this morning.

A lot of presumptions and sweeping statements galore in the above two paras --> 'disgusting', 'religion', 'oppressed', 'morons', 'regressive'... well... to put it short... the entire content!

My post is not to defend anything, as the vedhic dharma is neither offended nor debased by such immature observations... and neither are any followers...

One may be well equipped with the material education - that too is a shasthra, no doubt - but that does not implicitly grant them the maturity in other things, spiritual or philosophical... worldly experience can sometimes be quite detrimental in going the opposite way, in understanding certain basic concepts of dharma... neither can it compensate for improper understanding...

The person is experiencing his own journey and its results... so be it...

But really, the question which I would like to pose, to interested members, is this:

"Do we really need to 'prove' to the world to discard such opinions... not only of the brahmins, but of our vedhic dharma as well? Of course, individual views cannot be altered (neither do they matter), if not by a conscious effort of the concerned... But in the long run, such views tend to collate themselves and pose a threat even to the dharmic... The vendetta against brahmins is one. Ultimately, the society would suffer as a result of such brain-washing"

Thanks,

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri SS Ji,

Sri Sankara Ji says that he is from the community and has renounced Hinduism. In this sense, I invite him to put forward his ideas as to why he did so - even though I have an inkling why he might have done so.

I do not think that our religion and way of life is going to be diminshed in anyway because we hear from a person from our community enumerating his experiences.

If such a discussion does not appeal to you, please discard and not comment. But once you comment, one needs to pursue the conversation for the benefit of others. If you call me 'immature' and 'ignorant' I would like to know why. On the same way, if I am making some generalized and sweeping statements about members of our community/religion like Sri Sankara Ji did in his postings, he needs to explain why.

Otherwise it just becomes a stone throwing exercise from a distant and does not lend to any discussion to understand the underlying reasons as to why such statements are made. And if unchecked, such statements mushroom in to personal attacks and name calling, which we want to avoid.

I sincerely hope you understand what I have said, in terms of keeping this site hate/verbal abuse free.

Regards,
KRS

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Shri KRS,

If you call me 'immature' and 'ignorant' I would like to know why.

I did not understand your above comment; my entire post was directed to that of Sankara. As his post seemed a curt intrusion with a motive, I wanted to pursue his post alone... and that is why I have posted it in a separate thread.

Putting a conclusion based on personal experiences can be quite misleading... and hence to jump into the fray with firm conclusions and using choice words against the brahmin community, even though termed as observations, seems a bit raucous...

I did not know where I had called you names!? Or you may be inferring that am calling Sankara names... and hence your remark about stone-throwing... am not interested in insulting anyone... and I have kept myself out of many threads to which I had subscribed previously... So, I know what am doing...

If this post is felt as an abuse or a hate spewing piece, I will not continue anymore...

Pls let me know.

Regards,

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Also, the reason I had to start a new thread was that I do not continue any discussions on the thread "Why I am not a Hindu"...

So, it is not a distant stone throwing exercise...

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri SS Ji,

My whole quote was "If you call me 'immature' and 'ignorant' I would like to know why. On the same way, if I am making some generalized and sweeping statements about members of our community/religion like Sri Sankara Ji did in his postings, he needs to explain why."

I did not mean you called me, KRS, 'immature' and 'ignorant'. Of course not. I was writing from the viewpoint of Sri Sankara Ji.

I never meant to imply that you are throwing stones. I only said that in the context of our recent history where that happened, as you know.

My comments were not to muzzle discussion, in fact, I would like to encourage healthy discussions on these matters. If one of us felt that there is an issue (as Sankara and you seem to feel), then let us discuss. That was my only message.

I felt that you may take my posting in a wrong way, given our past conversations, and that is why I specifically said "I sincerely hope you understand what I have said, in terms of keeping this site hate/verbal abuse free."

I would like very much to keep contributing with your views, that are important for our community to hear. Just because you and I differ personally on certain outlooks should not deprive our Forum members to look at issues from various different view points. I will always support your right to state your views.

Regards,
KRS

Shri KRS,

I did not understand your above comment; my entire post was directed to that of Sankara. As his post seemed a curt intrusion with a motive, I wanted to pursue his post alone... and that is why I have posted it in a separate thread.

Putting a conclusion based on personal experiences can be quite misleading... and hence to jump into the fray with firm conclusions and using choice words against the brahmin community, even though termed as observations, seems a bit raucous...

I did not know where I had called you names!? Or you may be inferring that am calling Sankara names... and hence your remark about stone-throwing... am not interested in insulting anyone... and I have kept myself out of many threads to which I had subscribed previously... So, I know what am doing...

If this post is felt as an abuse or a hate spewing piece, I will not continue anymore...

Pls let me know.

Regards,

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Shri KRS, I stand clarified...

I now await Shri Sankara's response, if he chooses to reply here...

Regards,

 

[KRS]

Thank you Sri SS Ji. Let us hope so.

Regards,
KRS

Shri KRS, I stand clarified...

I now await Shri Sankara's response, if he chooses to reply here...

Regards,

 

[G Vishwanath]

I don't think Shri Sankara will reply. But if does, I will be reading it with bated breath and unabashed curiosity.

Like mischievous Naarada, he has made provocative statements and has succeeded in making two TBs confront each other and must be watching the fun from the sidelines.

I suggest we do not take such people too seriously and learn to ignore them.

If he has left the Hindu fold, nothing is to be gained now by trying to convince him.
Let him go in peace. .
I hope he finds peace and happiness in his new beliefs, whatever they are.
May be he can try Islam? I am sure they will welcome him with open arms!
But if he later voices such views about Islam in public, he will soon be keeping Daniel Pearl company.
Or perhaps try Atheism. Karananidhi could be a suggested role model for him to base his life on.
Whatever it is , it's not worth spending our energies on discussing his views.
His post was useful though. I love provocative posts like this. I am thick-skinned and immune to the barbs of the likes of Shri Sankara. He gave me some amusing moments and any thing less provocative, could not have motivated me to spend time on posting this reply.
I convey my good wishes to Sri Sankara and I hope this encourages him to bare some more teeth and be even more brazen in his attacks on Hinduism. If the group bans him, he can mail me privately. I will never ban him but merely continue to be amused by him.
Regards
G Vishwanath
JP Nagar, Bangalore
(New member)

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Vishwanath Ji,

While I agree with you that Sri Sankara Ji's posts seem very provocative, let us not jump to conclusions. Unless he uses abusive language his views are welcome as long as they contribute to the promotion of our community's welfare.

There are quite a number of youngsters in this forum, and Sri Sankara Ji's story may show them what not to do (may be). But for that to happen, we need to hear from him.

Recently we had entertained a monotheist who in the guise of 'looking for God', really was wanting us to accept his version of God. He could not understand any other versions of the God. So, he got frustrated and left. He was a 'drive by' truth seeker. But we allowed him to speak and argue. We can now understand the differences between his 'religion' and ours.

As a moderator in this Forum, my discussion with Sri SS Ji was not anything confrontational. I just think we need to be open to all ideas, but examine each one on merit alone.

Regards,
KRS

I don't think Shri Sankara will reply. But if does, I will be reading it with bated breath and unabashed curiosity.

Like mischievous Naarada, he has made provocative statements and has succeeded in making two TBs confront each other and must be watching the fun from the sidelines.

I suggest we do not take such people too seriously and learn to ignore them.

If he has left the Hindu fold, nothing is to be gained now by trying to convince him.
Let him go in peace. .
I hope he finds peace and happiness in his new beliefs, whatever they are.
May be he can try Islam? I am sure they will welcome him with open arms!
But if he later voices such views about Islam in public, he will soon be keeping Daniel Pearl company.
Or perhaps try Atheism. Karananidhi could be a suggested role model for him to base his life on.
Whatever it is , it's not worth spending our energies on discussing his views.
His post was useful though. I love provocative posts like this. I am thick-skinned and immune to the barbs of the likes of Shri Sankara. He gave me some amusing moments and any thing less provocative, could not have motivated me to spend time on posting this reply.
I convey my good wishes to Sri Sankara and I hope this encourages him to bare some more teeth and be even more brazen in his attacks on Hinduism. If the group bans him, he can mail me privately. I will never ban him but merely continue to be amused by him.
Regards
G Vishwanath
JP Nagar, Bangalore
(New member)

 

[G Vishwanath]

Dear Sri KRS,
By all means let Sri Sanakara be given full opportunity to vent here.
I never suggested banning him or closing our minds to any arguments he may have.
But some people exult in provocation and Sri Sankara seems to belong this group.
The first post on this subject by Seshadri appeared on May 18 and it's nearly a week but Sri Sankara has not responded to our invitations to him to elaborate on his charges.
Even if he uses abusive language, I would still be curious about what his arguments are.
But he has proferred no arguments. He merely made provocative statements and stirred up the pot.

I do not claim that all is perfect in Hinduism and that there is no room for reform.
While Hinduism can rightly be proud of continuous reforms, critics still have scope to point fingers at some things we practice and should give up.
In most cases these practices are not sanctioned in the scriptures and are practised only by some communities or were practised at some point of time.
These have been used as a convenient sticks to beat us with.
I am a modern Hindu and I personally would not like to trade the faith I have been born in, in my present, next and all subsequent births.
Sri Sankara's fulminations leave me amused and totally unaffected.
I end up feeling sorry for people like him.
If he responds, I will defintitely read what he has to say.
But if I find his arguments hollow, fallacious, motivated, and malicious I will merely choose to ignore them and not honour them with a response.
Thanks for your observations as moderator and sorry for imagining a "confrontation" where none existed.
I am also curious about this "monotheist", and that cute term you used ("drive-by truth seeker").
I joined this forum very recently and missed all the fun.
Can you please tell me which thread and date?
I will catch up with the thread you referred to later at my convenience.
You can mail me privately if necessary.
Let me also take this opportunity to tell you that I like the way the forum is organised into various threads to suit various tastes.
It's a pity I did not know about the existence of this forum a lot earlier or else by now I would have been one of the most prolific posters to this forum.
Regards
G Vishwanath
JP Nagar, Bangalore
[email protected]

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Vishwanath Ji,

Thank you for your response. I agree with you about your views on Hinduism.

This Forum has seen a bit of 'action' in the past couple of years. But today we have a very balanced moderation in the Forum, in my opinion.

Please read the postings by Sri sapr333 Ji.

Regards,
KRS

 

[s007bala]

ss

>>The vendetta against brahmins is one.<<

we are persecuted as brahmins,its clear as daylights to me.but only jathi - brahmanas not really the brahmins who actualy follow scriptures and et al.

i think sankara is a frustrated and self-opiniated person to spew what he has written.especially asking indians to go back to india,from usa.business houses will not permit such a course of action,as it will further hurt usa economy.

sb