History : the Taj mahal

[vivekam.vairagyam]

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the story / the truth about this magnificient edifice is still to be concluded for good ...

the following links present specific view points with specific logic , i hope fols can comment on both sides of th aisle , but pls be specific about ur contentions ...

Taj Mahal : An Architects Point Of View


http://www.esamskriti.com/essay-chapters/Taj-Mahal-a-architects-point-of-view-1.aspx

Taj Mahal : A Shiv Temple


http://www.esamskriti.com/essay-chapters/Taj-Mahal-a-Shiv-Temple-1.aspx

Taj Mahal: Was it a Vedic Temple?

The Photographic Evidence

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/was_the_taj_mahal_a_vedic_temple.htm

 

[KRS]

Sri VV Ji,

These are precisely the meaningless 'research' in to the past that have become the Hindutva agenda. Dr. Oak, instead of bringing to light the history of vedic culture, unfortunately spent his talent on trying to prove that under every islamic edifice there in lies a Hindu temple. There is no way to prove these claims unless one does a proper archeological analysis, to which no one will ever agree. Let us assume that such an analysis is agreed upon and we find that there was a temple underneath, then what? Do we bring down the Taj and build a temple in it's place?

All these types of Hindutva activities stem from the inability to accept that the moghul empire and other sultanates were a part of our history. And the monuments they have left behind belong to us all who are Indians.

Instead of rejoicing in the fact that the Taj has been named one of the ten new wonders of the world, why are we engaged in activities that would diminish it, just because of some nutty religion based 'research'? This is exactly the problem with Hindutva ideology.

Regards,
KRS

 

[s007bala]

re

the story / the truth about this magnificient edifice is still to be concluded for good ...

the following links present specific view points with specific logic , i hope fols can comment on both sides of th aisle , but pls be specific about ur contentions ...

Taj Mahal : An Architects Point Of View


http://www.esamskriti.com/essay-chapters/Taj-Mahal-a-architects-point-of-view-1.aspx

Taj Mahal : A Shiv Temple


http://www.esamskriti.com/essay-chapters/Taj-Mahal-a-Shiv-Temple-1.aspx

Taj Mahal: Was it a Vedic Temple?

The Photographic Evidence

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/was_the_taj_mahal_a_vedic_temple.htm

vv

when i was growing up in n.delhi,i have visited to almost all of the historic sites.Tejo Mahalaya is a splendid piece of work done by hindus.I never knew about Dr.Oaks research then,but instinctively,i was telling my sister,why do i get a feeling this is a temple,for which i was rebuked firmly saying its a dead peoples place,and i should not utter such things so as to not disturb the spirits.Which scared the jeepers out of me.But,i remember i was sulking all day long during the tour.

Now,my gut instinct is proving to be right.I am so happy,if finally the truth comes out.800 years of islamic rule,(stockholm syndrome) is too much for us Indians plus add 200 years of christians rule is way tooooooo much for Indians.Its a miracle that hindus are still able to be hindus at all.Some dogged resistance and faith,i must say about us.

I think in the forum someone wrote that Kanchi Kamakshi Amman temple is actually a jain temple.Dunno,of course which of all this is correct.But Jain temple architecture is so vastly different,if one goes to Rajasthan and other such areas and even the Jain temple in GN chetty rd,in chennai is vastly different.So,i think Kanchi Kamakshi is built by Cholas only.

Anyways,these kind of revealing truths brings out,the real faith of hindus who are in quest for renewal of our sanathana dharma,imho.Thanks for the post.

sb

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Sri VV Ji,

These are precisely the meaningless 'research' in to the past that have become the Hindutva agenda. Dr. Oak, instead of bringing to light the history of vedic culture, unfortunately spent his talent on trying to prove that under every islamic edifice there in lies a Hindu temple. There is no way to prove these claims unless one does a proper archeological analysis, to which no one will ever agree. Let us assume that such an analysis is agreed upon and we find that there was a temple underneath, then what? Do we bring down the Taj and build a temple in it's place?

All these types of Hindutva activities stem from the inability to accept that the moghul empire and other sultanates were a part of our history. And the monuments they have left behind belong to us all who are Indians.

Instead of rejoicing in the fact that the Taj has been named one of the ten new wonders of the world, why are we engaged in activities that would diminish it, just because of some nutty religion based 'research'? This is exactly the problem with Hindutva ideology.

Regards,
KRS

I dont think you could generalize this as 'meaningless research', for then all research could be grouped the same...

Moghul history is a shame... and edifices that stand on demolished temple structures are nothing but reminders... in my opinion they should be done away with...

I never had any admiration for the Taj as a moslem work and will never have... what is 'nutty' to you may be veritable to others...

If you dont like hindutva, it is your personal view; it need not be the sole basis for evaluating whether a research is genuine or otherwise...

Btw what is wrong if a temple is constructed in place of the Taj?

Regards,

 

[KRS]

Sri SS,

My response in 'blue':

I dont think you could generalize this as 'meaningless research', for then all research could be grouped the same...
A 'meaningless' research is when one can not prove a point, because the physical evidence can not be unearthed. Even if it can be, it is meaningless in the sense that nothing would be established as any new fact. So your assertion is wrong.

Moghul history is a shame... and edifices that stand on demolished temple structures are nothing but reminders... in my opinion they should be done away with...
Thank god, it is your opinion. Which is a throw back to some long lost glorious 'vedic civilization'. As long as there are people with your views are in India, even 'pseudo secularism' will thrive.

I never had any admiration for the Taj as a moslem work and will never have... what is 'nutty' to you may be veritable to others...
Again, sir, the majority do not agree with you. you are welcome to hold on to the 'world is flat' theory - but the theory is nutty nevertheless.

If you dont like hindutva, it is your personal view; it need not be the sole basis for evaluating whether a research is genuine or otherwise...
PN Oak was the laughing stock of the international research community. Because he was out to prove a Hindutva agenda. Same way I deride all the efforts of the fundamentalists in every religion to unearth the supremacy of their religion by the so called 'research', I deride it also. This is not research. This is all story telling.

Btw what is wrong if a temple is constructed in place of the Taj?
We have gone through this before. You need to decide whether you are Indian first and then a Hindu or is it the other way around.

If you are Indian first, you would not have asked this question.

If you are a fundamentalist Hindu first, then your question makes all the sense. If this is the case, everyone knows the Hindutva agenda.

Regards,

Regards,
KRS

 

[sapr333]

To start with Post #1:-
Dear V.V,
you need to explain your objective, instead of sharing few URLs..What are you trying to ponder here? Are you just sharing some obscured vintage articles,which no one could figure it out through google? Just curious!!

Bala>>>I am so happy,if finally the truth comes out.800 years of islamic rule,(stockholm syndrome) is too much for us Indians plus add 200
years of christians rule is way tooooooo much for Indians.Its a miracle that hindus are still able to be hindus at all>>>

Dear Bala,
We used to claim proud that 'We are Diverse/Accomodative' right!!! Any ways, there are lots to feel positive about it, when we all claim proud as 'Indian culture'.Ponder these questions.Moslems in India dont claim proud of having 5 wives, in par with their counter part, Arab sheik..We had a Women Moslem S.C Judge too, where as Islam gives 1/2 weightage to femal witness in shariah judicial system..Western Christian teens soon after marriage, drop their parents in old age home,and rush to be with wife, where as Indian Christians ensure it
on the first date, that, she takes care of her parents and live a joint family life.. why so?We meticulously followed widow-burning and devdasi system for 2000 years, but what inspired us to shun them (If not for King Babur)?

One great thing about us is, we have accomodated/accepted/assimilated, even appropriated different cultures. We should be lucky to get that opportunity, with those foreign invasions, of different culture..Hope you agree with the moden management thought "Diversity". The basic question here is, you are an opportunist or pessimist?

Any culture, which has not accomodated others has taken a natural death, and history has recorded it well.. eg, Latin for not accepting other vocabs(Unlike English)..Why did the industrial revolution blossom in England & America, and not in France or Sweden? Why the Renaissance did'nt take off in Germany? Where are those ancient Greeks/Turks/Romans/Babylonians/Egyptians/Portuguese/Buddhist Ashokan Empire now? Pls do some study on this.. Then you will realise my point..

 

[hariharan1972]

I agree with KRS Sir.

I am not qualified to make any comment on what 'qualifies' to be a research but my simple 'litmus test' would include whether the outcome is useful to mankind.

Now we can argue till the cows come home as to whether the 'truth' about the Shiva Temple is 'useful' to the Hindu mankind but my view is that Hinduism is far too great to be affected either by the disclosure or suppression of facts about the Taj.

Sesh-ji, you would be surprised that in another forum, i am considered to be a Hindu fanatical, to the extent that a self-proclaimed secular (aka pseudo-secular) pronounced me as a 'closet-trishul-wielder'.

Be that as it may be, I think Hindutva per se isnt bad if it expunges militant behaviour (not of the majority but a miniscule minority) and becomes more accomodative.

My theory of Hindutva is not 'denying' either the presence or greatness of other religions or it's followers but presenting my conviction about Hinduism and fighting for the rights of Hindus.

My theory of Hindutva is to wean Secularism from anti-Hinduism and show it's rightful place.

My theory of Hindutva is to ensure that a Hindu neednt be apologetic about his/her faith and not becoming the victim of those who want to destroy Hinduism from within and outside.

My theory of Hindutva is to ensure that each Indian can practice the religion of his choice and if the choice is not the religion of his birth, the exercise of the choice is done solely by him without any duress or coercion.

Sesh-ji, you may consider the Mughal period as a blot on the Indian history. You are entitled to your views but the fact that the Mughals invaded India and ruled India is etched in Indian History. We surely cant be going around erasing every monument or memory of our surrender to the Mughal rule.

Proving the existence of a Hindu temple beneath the Taj in my view is not going to help Hindus or Hinduism in anyway and as KRS Sir says would not give us the licence to pull down the Taj.

The Taj is a resplendent testimony of mughal architecture to many in the world and in my view deserves to be protected at any cost.

My humble view is that Hindutva should be directed at issues which are substantive to the cause of Hindus and Hinduism and not fall prey to tokenism. Already Hindutva is being perceived as a communal agenda and accused of creating fault lines in society. I wish for the brand of Hindutva which will bind the society and not divide it.

Pardon my flippancy, this whole business of enquiring into the antecedents of Taj appears to be a trivia to me.

The most significant reason why the Taj should remain, I reserve it for the very end. But for the Taj where will our heroes and heroines would run around and prance in love ? Atleast for Cupid's sake, i hope you will agree with me.

 

[s007bala]

re

sapr

Dear Bala,

We used to claim proud that 'We are Diverse/Accomodative' right!!! Any ways, there are lots to feel positive about it, when we all claim proud as 'Indian culture'.Ponder these questions.Moslems in India dont claim proud of having 5 wives, in par with their counter part, Arab sheik..We had a Women Moslem S.C Judge too, where as Islam gives 1/2 weightage to femal witness in shariah judicial system..Western Christian teens soon after marriage, drop their parents in old age home,and rush to be with wife, where as Indian Christians ensure it on the first date, that, she takes care of her parents and live a joint family life.. why so?We meticulously followed widow-burning and devdasi system for 2000 years, but what inspired us to shun them (If not for King Babur)?

Anyone invading is bad-period.I cannot change history,but i sure can change the present situation,so that my future generations will have his/her pride back.No one likes to be invaded and occupied and then lecture to you,as to how you should live.

One great thing about us is, we have accomodated/accepted/assimilated, even appropriated different cultures. We should be lucky to get that

opportunity, with those foreign invasions, of different culture..Hope you agree with the moden management thought "Diversity". The basic question here is, you are an opportunist or pessimist?

OMG,we abhor ,what our fore-parents had been subjected to by islamic & christians.I want to restore all our Kings of sanathana dharma to their pristine glory.If possible,re-convert all muslims,christians to hinduism again.I am a supreme optimist.

Any culture, which has not accomodated others has taken a natural death, and history has recorded it well. eg, Latin for not accepting

other vocabs(Unlike English)..Why did the industrial revolution blossom in England & America, and not in France or Sweden? Why the Renaissance did'nt take off in Germany? Where are those ancient Greeks/Turks/Romans/Babylonians/Egyptians/Portuguese/Buddhist Ashokan Empire now? Pls do some study on this.. Then you will realise my point..

Latin is still used in all emblems,currencies..etc.No one speaks it of course,except in the church of vatican.I love english becoz,thats what was taught to me from kindergarten till my collegiate education.If it would been tamizh,i would be rattling all my knowledge and typing in tamizh.Hats of to Tamizh leaders of Tamizh Nadu.At least to my favourite Anna/MGR/MUKA/JJ/..... especially for Tamizh.

I do not hate present muslims or christians or white or black or brown...etc at all.But,i still want to see Lord Rama Temple built in Ayodhya,at least in a nearby area,if not the exact place,though a part of me,wants it at exactly the same place,where praana-pratishtha was done,to remember him.Will Pope allow us to build Lord Vishnu temple in Vatican?Will Wahabbi King of Saudi Arabia,allow us to build our Lord Shiva Temple in Mecca & Medina?

Then you will realise my point....our hindu tolerance is been taken as as a sign of cowardice,and rascal political leaders are culpable in this horror against us.I am hurt.I am grieving my religious sentiments have been trampled over.I do not call a christian an kafir.I do not call a Muslim an infidel.I do not call any other religious faith in any bad manner,the least that others could is to reciprocate the same sentiment to my brothers and sisters worldover.

sb

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

intent behind the thread - curious to know the truth , isnt that reason enuf?

.... i am sure those who feel this is useless research are entitled to their opinion ,

.... i do feel that knowing what is what with respect to our past is the least we can do to understand the reason as to why we got there in the first place , knowing that might help us see if we r repeating the same mistakes today , thereby contributing to a brighter future in some little way ...

... i wonder why people freeze or become jittery when it comes to issues like these ... we , hindus , need to learn to re-open and pragmatically look into the wounds of our past ... there is no need to look for revenge ... but we shuld explore fair means of amends thru mutual dialogue and consensus

..... if we can do that in a firm , focussed , logical , legal and cohesive manner , we must be able to send across a new message that can open doors to a better future for all communities in india .....

... i guess we can use these oppurtunities to build awareness towards such inegrated efforts for the future ....

and btw as for the taj .. there is no need to re-construct a temple ... the taj , pretty much , is the temple!

 

[sapr333]

Dear Bala, for a while,let me stoop down to your way and attempt to give you an answer now..Though I dont wish to...

>>Anyone invading is bad-period.>>.No one likes to be invaded and occupied and then lecture to you,as to how you should live.>>

We never believed 'Diversity in participation and alloted the job of defending our country to Kshatriyas. End results, we voluntarily surrendered to the invading armies.

We edicted 'Crossing the sea' as taboo, inspite of having millenia old maritime trade relationship with Rome/Greece..Society accepted it.. End results, Portugues/Brits/Spanish/Danes all invaded us through sea routes...Should we blame ourselves or the invaders?


>>Will Pope allow us to build Lord Vishnu temple in Vatican?>>
Instead of believing in 'Diversity in participation', we assigned the job of protecting the country to Kshatriyas.. End results,they voluntarily surrendered one by one to the invading armies.

Will that solve the entire problem of 1/4th (850Mn Hindus) of the world population? If so,as a true follower of Christ,and for the humanitarian cause, the Pope should bend down and accept it.


>>our hindu tolerance is been taken as as a sign of cowardice,and rascal political leaders are culpable in this horror against us>>

It could be your personal opinion. Majority of Hindus are not cowardice as you claim so... Remember, tolerance is accepting and accomodating an intolerant. Tolerance, is lending the 'Right Cheek' to the offender..Its a by product of Love

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Hari,

You definitely can write. Saraswathi is directing your pen.

Once before you made a similar statement. But this surpasses it mainly because you have captured my own thoughts with your own beautiful words.

Sign me up for this Hindutva anytime.

Regards,
KRS

My theory of Hindutva is not 'denying' either the presence or greatness of other religions or it's followers but presenting my conviction about Hinduism and fighting for the rights of Hindus.

My theory of Hindutva is to wean Secularism from anti-Hinduism and show it's rightful place.

My theory of Hindutva is to ensure that a Hindu neednt be apologetic about his/her faith and not becoming the victim of those who want to destroy Hinduism from within and outside.

My theory of Hindutva is to ensure that each Indian can practice the religion of his choice and if the choice is not the religion of his birth, the exercise of the choice is done solely by him without any duress or coercion.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri VV Ji,

What is the difference between you and those Christians in the video two yers ago who wanted to buid a church in the middle of a Hindu colony (cauvery layout) and wanted to call the colony St. Anthony Layout?

The problem with your research is that you are forgetting the sentiments of 130 million Indians who from their historical/religious perspective look upon Taj as the crowning symbol. We have gone through this before. You can not and should not fight yesterday's battles today. Because if you do, that won't be the end. There will be equal reaction. And this will never stop.

So, on the face of logic your assertion is wrong. We already know the past mistakes of our forefathers. They did not unite to fight a common enemy. They employed outdated warfare ideas. And they lost. So, let it be.

Today, we are a part of a different entity called India, which is secular. Let us all work to strengthen it not look back. Only if you believe in Hindutava(the fundamentalist kind), you would want to look back.

Regards,
KRS

 

[s007bala]

re

Dear Bala, for a while,let me stoop down to your way and attempt to give you an answer now..Though I dont wish to...

Dear sapr,neither do you have to stoop nor do you have to raise.You please be as you are as i am.You are now being hypocritical,if you really wished not to reply,thats exactly what you should do.....or am i missing something here??

We edicted 'Crossing the sea' as taboo, inspite of having millenia old trade relationship with Rome/Greece..Society accepted it.. End results, Portugues/Brits/Spanish/Danes all invaded us through sea routes...Should we blame ourselves or the invaders?

Islam,Christians,...are still dominating world trade.Hindus are in between like a piece of meat in a sandwich.Getting chomped by the majority religions,namely Christians ,Islam.I blame ourselves for being invaded and occupied.

Will that solve the entire problem of 1/4th (850Mn Hindus) of the world population? If so,as a true follower of Christ,and for the humanitarian cause, the Pope should bend down and accept it.

Thanks for the gesture of at least writing,so i do appreciate your sincere heart.Its lot easy for you write this,as you are not the Pope.Who incidentally is of German stock.Guru Jesus Christ was a sishya of the Sarva Gnyana Peetham of Advaitham of Adi Shankara Achaaryal in Kashmir,from the age 0f 13 till 30 and then went back to preach to his flock of jews.Who finally killed him and even then Jesus exclaimed 'oh father,why have you forsaken me and do forgive them,as they do not know,as to what they are doing by crucifying me'!So,he learnt well from his guru's in India.

It could be your personal opinion. Majority of Hindus are not cowardice as you claim so..

That came out wrong.It should have been,people should not construe our hindu tolerance as a sign of cowardice.Certainly none of us are cowards.

Remember, tolerance is accepting and accomodating an intolerant. Tolerance, is lending the 'Right Cheek' to the offender..Its a by product of Love

The very first trait of a sanathana Dharman=hinduism=LOVE.Our tolerance speaks for itself,i do not even have to add a comma to it.

I am sure you are all the time lending your cheeks to the offender,but no thanks.I believe Lord Krishna's clarion call to Shriman Arjunar=pick up your bow & arrow(now,AK 47,Nukes..) and fight for your Dharma,even if you die,you will reach me in my abode=goloka.I would rather follow my dharma of brahmana-kshatriya-vaishya-shudran and die for my Lord's clarion call.

sb

 

[sapr333]

A D.U Reader concluded an article this way....


Hindutva has managed to make an 85 per cent-strong majority community feel insecure about the strength of its durable traditions, unsure of the ability of these
traditions to survive. Congratulations. Even a thousand years of "Muslim rule" couldn't achieve this.

 

[sapr333]

The very first trait of a sanathana Dharman=hinduism=LOVE.Our tolerance speaks for itself,i do not even have to add a comma to it.

I am sure you are all the time lending your cheeks to the offender,but no thanks.I believe Lord Krishna's clarion call to Shriman Arjunar=pick up your bow & arrow(now,AK 47,Nukes..) and fight for your Dharma,even if you die,you will reach me in my abode=goloka.I would rather follow my dharma of brahmana-kshatriya-vaishya-shudran and die for my Lord's clarion call.

sb

Little deviation from the core theme of this..(Moderator, pls bear with me).

If one strogly believes 'Love' as the ultimatum or first trait, then one doesnt need AK-47, cos he has the power to love his enemy and make him fall in love with him..True love never fails too.

 

[s007bala]

Shriman KRS

>>Today, we are a part of a different entity called India, which is secular. Let us all work to strengthen it not look back. Only if you believe in Hindutava(the fundamentalist kind), you would want to look back.<<

I thought you are American,and American's do not follow this advice that you are giving to vv.Case in example,two wars=Iraq + Afghanistan.Did you try telling President Bush or at least petition to him as many Americans did?,not to speak of pre-emptive strikes,by him as Bush Doctrine=whatever that is??I am sure,you would not have nor will you even now,isn't it?Or correct me,if i am wrong to assume this about you,becoz i am eager to know your stand.This is not personal,just a friendly exchange of adult ideas,behaving in a mature manner.Hope,i am making myself understood,with no mockery in my tone or tenor in my writings Shriman KRS.So,its genuine curiosity from side.

Regards

sb

 

[s007bala]

sapr

>>Little deviation from the core theme of this..(Moderator, pls bear with me).

If one strogly believes 'Love' as the ultimatum or first trait, then one doesnt need AK-47, cos he has the power to love his enemy and make him fall in love with him..True love never fails too.<<

Becoz of love only,i am fighting for dharma.One should not be a fool to close his/her eyes to atrocities being committed by Christians,Islamics..,as we ie our fore-parents displayed ,tolerance and got invaded and occupied for 1000 years.Our tolerance does not need any proof nor our valor to be tested,dear sapr,we are the honorable ones,who taught humanity and still teaching humanity,the power of love,tolerance,ahimsa,shanthi,prema,sathya,...asatho ma sath gamaya,tamaso ma jyothir gama,mrithyor ma,amritham gamaya,om sarva lokas samasthaas sukhino bhavanthu...is the daily prayer which is inculcated even today as it was done from time immemorial to one and all.....from the punya bhoomi of bharath...to shores of it beyond forever...

sb

 

[s007bala]

hari

>>My theory of Hindutva is not 'denying' either the presence or greatness of other religions or it's followers but presenting my conviction about Hinduism and fighting for the rights of Hindus.

My theory of Hindutva is to wean Secularism from anti-Hinduism and show it's rightful place.

My theory of Hindutva is to ensure that a Hindu neednt be apologetic about his/her faith and not becoming the victim of those who want to destroy Hinduism from within and outside.

My theory of Hindutva is to ensure that each Indian can practice the religion of his choice and if the choice is not the religion of his birth, the exercise of the choice is done solely by him without any duress or coercion.<<

Shriman KRS is right.Ambal Saraswathi is your writings.But this we have been doing from time immemorial,but still got invaded and occupied.So,plan B to roll on...which will what happen in 40 years from now in India.

sb

 

[s007bala]

re

A D.U Reader concluded an article this way....


Hindutva has managed to make an 85 per cent-strong majority community feel insecure about the strength of its durable traditions, unsure of the ability of these
traditions to survive. Congratulations. Even a thousand years of "Muslim rule" couldn't achieve this.

Dear sapr

Can you give a link to the whole article.Thanks.

sb

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

krs-ji,

Dear Sri VV Ji,

What is the difference between you and those Christians in the video two yers ago who wanted to buid a church in the middle of a Hindu colony (cauvery layout) and wanted to call the colony St. Anthony Layout?

where is the similarity between goonda christians , intruding into a hindu colony and creating trouble , and my attempt to understand the true origin of a structure belonging to my faith but now falsely portrayed to the world as islamic architecture ...?
The problem with your research is that you are forgetting the sentiments of 130 million Indians who from their historical/religious perspective look upon Taj as the crowning symbol. We have gone through this before. You can not and should not fight yesterday's battles today. Because if you do, that won't be the end. There will be equal reaction. And this will never stop.

do u think those 130 million people need such a lie to not feel any hurt ?

So, on the face of logic your assertion is wrong. We already know the past mistakes of our forefathers. They did not unite to fight a common enemy. They employed outdated warfare ideas. And they lost. So, let it be.
clearly the error in logic is not mine
Today, we are a part of a different entity called India, which is secular. Let us all work to strengthen it not look back. Only if you believe in Hindutava(the fundamentalist kind), you would want to look back.

why does correcting a misinformation make it a destructive practice? ..forget abt taking back the structure ... why cant it be publicly acknowledged that this is a magnificient example of hindu architecture ... r u telling me muslims need a continuation of the lie being told today to keep their peace?

Regards,
KRS

thnk u ji.

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

sapr-ji ,

Dear Bala, for a while,let me stoop down to your way and attempt to give you an answer now..Though I dont wish to...

>>Anyone invading is bad-period.>>.No one likes to be invaded and occupied and then lecture to you,as to how you should live.>>

We never believed 'Diversity in participation and alloted the job of defending our country to Kshatriyas. End results, we voluntarily surrendered to the invading armies.

we clearly believed in diversity esp of capabilities , that is exactly why the varnashrama dharma was born ,,, the diversity of temprament , capabilities and attitudes were suggested as basis for choosing a way of living ,,, hence ksatriyas are a logical choice for the job ... every army gets defeated sometime .... no we did not voluntarily surrender to the invading armies .... never ... the stories of the marathas and vijayanagar empire are but a drop in the ocean of enduring bravery and courage in the face of grave treason and treachery ...

We edicted 'Crossing the sea' as taboo, inspite of having millenia old maritime trade relationship with Rome/Greece..Society accepted it.. End results, Portugues/Brits/Spanish/Danes all invaded us through sea routes...Should we blame ourselves or the invaders?

have u heard of "thirai kadal odiyum thiraviyam thaedu " ..... non-vipras were never prevented trading overseas ,, isnt that why we still have a vibrant presence in southeast asia for eg. ?
>>Will Pope allow us to build Lord Vishnu temple in Vatican?>>
Instead of believing in 'Diversity in participation', we assigned the job of protecting the country to Kshatriyas.. End results,they voluntarily surrendered one by one to the invading armies.

Will that solve the entire problem of 1/4th (850Mn Hindus) of the world population? If so,as a true follower of Christ,and for the humanitarian cause, the Pope should bend down and accept it.

the pope will never allow anything that solves the problems of hindus ... not even in dreams ... for god's sake he comes to india and tells we want all of u to give up ur faith become part of our herd .... u expect him to have our welfare in mind ....? wake up ....


>>our hindu tolerance is been taken as as a sign of cowardice,and rascal political leaders are culpable in this horror against us>>

It could be your personal opinion. Majority of Hindus are not cowardice as you claim so... Remember, tolerance is accepting and accomodating an intolerant. Tolerance, is lending the 'Right Cheek' to the offender..Its a by product of Love

the cowardice or lack of it of a community does not depend on its ability to hurt or shout ... it depends on its ability to undo wrongs done to it in a focussed and principled manner ... by the same logic as is presented today , do u think sri krishna was wrong in asking the pandavas to follow the four fold path sama-gana-vedha-dhandam in their approach to redress their greivances ?

 

[KRS]

Sri s007bala,

I do not understand this posting. In what way my stand on revisionist history in any way connected with my stand on America's wars. I fail to see the connection.

Am I missing something? Please clarify if you can.

Regards,
KRS

Shriman KRS

>>Today, we are a part of a different entity called India, which is secular. Let us all work to strengthen it not look back. Only if you believe in Hindutava(the fundamentalist kind), you would want to look back.<<

I thought you are American,and American's do not follow this advice that you are giving to vv.Case in example,two wars=Iraq + Afghanistan.Did you try telling President Bush or at least petition to him as many Americans did?,not to speak of pre-emptive strikes,by him as Bush Doctrine=whatever that is??I am sure,you would not have nor will you even now,isn't it?Or correct me,if i am wrong to assume this about you,becoz i am eager to know your stand.This is not personal,just a friendly exchange of adult ideas,behaving in a mature manner.Hope,i am making myself understood,with no mockery in my tone or tenor in my writings Shriman KRS.So,its genuine curiosity from side.

Regards

sb

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri VV Ji,

You said:
where is the similarity between goonda christians , intruding into a hindu colony and creating trouble , and my attempt to understand the true origin of a structure belonging to my faith but now falsely portrayed to the world as islamic architecture ...?
Of course they are similar. You are laying claim to a structure that 'belonged' to a different religion for more than 350 years. What is the difference? Does not matter whether it was falsely portrayed. They have owned it all these years.

do u think those 130 million people need such a lie to not feel any hurt ?
Again, irrespective of what that building might have been, they own it now. And we own it as a splendid example of Mughal architecture. Till some one proves that is not so, there is no lie.

clearly the error in logic is not mine
Of course it is. Please read the following balanced view:
http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0201/ET17-7101.html
Even Konrad Elst, the oft quoted Hindutva intellectual has said that the assertion about Taj as a temple is ridiculous.

why does correcting a misinformation make it a destructive practice? ..forget abt taking back the structure ... why cant it be publicly acknowledged that this is a magnificient example of hindu architecture ... r u telling me muslims need a continuation of the lie being told today to keep their peace?
Because sir, you have no proof. Dr. PN Oak was not a scholor. His looney ideas without any proof have already been discredited. Even the SC threw out his case, admonishing hin that he had a 'bee in his bonnet'. So your assumption that it was a hindu temple is wrong in the first place. Show me the proof.

Regards,
KRS

 

[malgova.mango]

Dear VV ji!

I thank you for your posts and links, this is news to me.

I'll try to make a trip to TAJ to pay HOMAGE to NAGANATH Swami.

I think Lord Naganath decide to spend some time in Naga loka . Let's Pray for HIS presence in Bhoo Loka and HIS blessings for us to tide-over the KALI PRAVAHAM.

Thanks & Regards
MM

 

[malgova.mango]

krs!

even if proof is shown, I don't think you or secular indians won't do much to correct the wrong done to us.

just my 2 cents...