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Heirarchy of 21st century Brāhmanas

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tks

Well-known member
Just to provoke some thoughts and have some fun, let me state the following heirarchy of 21st century Brahmins (Brāhmanas).


1 is highest in this ranking and most desirable :)




1. Word loosely means in relation to brahman. One that is aspiring to be enlightened and realize one's true nature.
In today's world there are a few people in my experience worthy of this word. Some are Sannyasis from India. I have come across very few Americans in my life who fits the description of the word.


2. Brāhmanas defined by their Satvic nature. Sattva nature is characterized by "goodness", peace, cleanliness, and knowledge. Rajas nature is characterized by action, passion, creation,emotion etc. Tamas nature is characterized by darkness, ignorance, slowness, destruction, heaviness, disease etc. All humans have combination of all of these three Gunas. A person with primarily Saatva and bit of Rajas and almost no Tamas is considered a Brāhmana by their nature & character. This is the type of Brāhmanas that some of our scriptures like B.Gita refers to. I know many people from many different countries falling into this. Some are not even practicing Hindu and one I know is actually Atheist. Most Indians I have come across do not fall into this group here in my experience.Almost always they tend choose to become vegetarians and/or vegans. However just because someone is a Vegan does not mean they can be called Brāhmana by nature.


3. Brāhmana by pursuit of knowledge. This includes modern day Professors who are primarily Sattvic and have dedicated their life to learning and teaching worthy students. They also include great scientists like Newton, Eisntein and Hawking. They tend to embrace value of integrity essential to true pursuit of knowledge. It does not include those who put others down even if they are pursuing knowledge


4.Brāhmana by profession: These are priests in Hindu temples. They have spent many years learning to memorize many verses and display a sincere interest to follow traditions.They are usually poor (Dharidhra Brhamanas). I once heard a joke. If you want to curse someone close to you like your son then you you give this following curse - "May you become a priest in a Hindu temple in USA in your next life" . These priests are generally exploited by most temple management types. Of late these priests are getting more clever and are learning the ways of survival. I even heard of a priest who asked for stock option for Dhakshina :) Most priests do not want their children to follow their profession.


5. Brahmna by birth and culture. Most people do not know ABC of any of the traditions but they learn rote method to recite a lot of blah-blah. They celebrate functions often without knowing significance, make things up to suit their convenience, feel proud of their heritage. All in all they are harmless and follow their cultural traditions and amend them as they go along


6. Brahmana by birth who give bad name to the word. In another era these are the people that exploited caste heirarchy for small personal gain. In modern day these are people that tend to be narrow minded even while trying to think they are liberal in their outlook . These confused people that usually cause verbal harm to others . A few if they leave India are proud to put down India after 'drinking the cup of western wisdom' .




Do you have a heirarchy like this in mind :)?
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
tks,

i think we should rid ourselves as hindus, out of this hierarchy mentality. today's caste issues and the fact that we cannot think of ourselves as hindus but as brhamins or even worse, smarthas or chozhiyas, is due to the caste mentality.

what we should strive for is more along the lines, hindu or not, and within hindu, all of us, are nominally equal before god.

such attitude you might have noticed, among hindus in the usa, where the current young generation, are proud to identify themselves as hindus, have no or minimal caste feeling, and marry across the state/linguistic/caste loyalties of their immigrant parents.

eventually india will be like that.. but hopefully while we still have a numerical majority.
 

sangom

Well-known member
tks,

i think we should rid ourselves as hindus, out of this hierarchy mentality. today's caste issues and the fact that we cannot think of ourselves as hindus but as brhamins or even worse, smarthas or chozhiyas, is due to the caste mentality.

what we should strive for is more along the lines, hindu or not, and within hindu, all of us, are nominally equal before god.

such attitude you might have noticed, among hindus in the usa, where the current young generation, are proud to identify themselves as hindus, have no or minimal caste feeling, and marry across the state/linguistic/caste loyalties of their immigrant parents.

eventually india will be like that.. but hopefully while we still have a numerical majority.

No way, Kunjuppu! I wish I could add a few more categories like, "those who go abroad, make tons of money not at all following any of the brahmin customs or rules but start preaching to other brahmins on the strength of their material ascendancy": perhaps this will be rank no.1 in the 21st. century!
 

Yamaka

New member
The very idea of "Hierarchy" in the Opening Post is a problem for me!

There starts the controversy!

The thinking of a "Hierarchy" by our forefathers only started the Pathology in the Society, and the idea continues even in the early 21st Century!

Is this not sad?

:)
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
No way, Kunjuppu! I wish I could add a few more categories like, "those who go abroad, make tons of money not at all following any of the brahmin customs or rules but start preaching to other brahmins on the strength of their material ascendancy": perhaps this will be rank no.1 in the 21st. century!

if it comes to that, and to see it displayed so blatantly crudely in a microcosm, it is the behaviour of NRI artistes during the music season in chennai.

admittedly these have come to a certain standard - but the deciding crux, is that these are armed with yankee dolla, 50 times the value of the indian rupee, and so, pay their way, to choicest sabha performances, and hire the best side talent.

i see no way to stop this phenomena, but my heart does go out for local india born artistes with modest means. no way can these compete with the NRI, who in addition to hogging the stage, also get the gushing 'admiration' of critiques 'அமைய்ரிக்காக்குப் போயிட்டும்கூட நம்ம ஊர் கல்ச்சரே விட்டுக்கொடுக்கலே பாரு ', which i am quite sure, many many local young talent, would wish exactly that... :)
 

Govinda

New member
The very idea of "Hierarchy" in the Opening Post is a problem for me!

There starts the controversy!

The thinking of a "Hierarchy" by our forefathers only started the Pathology in the Society, and the idea continues even in the early 21st Century!

Is this not sad?

:)

Yamaka Sir,

FYI, The hierarchy given by the Poster, is among the Brahmans, not across the castes/religions.

A hierarchy is a measurement of how one should behave or live, what they are capable of, how they failed that consensus.

We have various sections of law, grading the crimes of the society. We have hierarchy in every section of office and the government. The problem arises, only when there comes a discrimination, when feels low in one performing their capable/prescribed duties and the higher rung cadres abusing/feeling the other person low.
 

Nara

Well-known member
....The thinking of a "Hierarchy" by our forefathers only started the Pathology in the Society, and the idea continues even in the early 21st Century!

Is this not sad?
Y, yes the inability to rise above such narrow thinking is sad, but, even after the idea of brahmnical supremacy has been roundly rejected, this preoccupation with wanting to define who a "true" brahmin is, is unhealthy.

Y, tell me something, do you think there is any "Shudra" who pores over the characteristics and conduct that make a true Shudra? If you find such a "Shudra" would you not find him/her comical? This quest to determine hierarchy within brahmins is no less comical, ROFL.

Cheers!
 

NSP

Member
tks,


such attitude you might have noticed, among hindus in the usa, where the current young generation, are proud to identify themselves as hindus, have no or minimal caste feeling, and marry across the state/linguistic/caste loyalties of their immigrant parents.
Eventually USA will become one like India sir. That transformation is very much apparent. The History of US is not long enough to indicate its colour. Please find a non NRI invite for all TB members at

http://www.flickr.com/photos/professorm1/6548268095/
 
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prasad1

Well-known member
I fail to see the relevance of this thread.
Hierarchy by what criteria, is the criteria readily measurable? Is it universally acceptable?

What is the purpose?
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
prasad,

tks feels, to answer your queries, the way i see it, is to forget brahmin subsects like smarthas, brahacharanam, thenkalai, vadagalai...with a new set of good to bad brahmins, with foreign domiciled Bs, automatically termed 'narrow minded, confused, venomous, verbally abusive..and all such bad stuff :)

to help out in understand where each one of us fits in this category, he has classified #6 ie living abroad brahmins. good to know that tks lives in the usa and how he sees himself (with modesty). and probably includes yours truly, nara and yourself, all resident usa/canada brahmins :)

personally, i would like call all of us as hindu, and learn to consider ourselves hindus first, and last. which, per my earlier note, i think, is the mindset of north american hindu desis. i think anyway :)

hope this satisfies your query, sort of...best wishes..
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
Just to provoke some thoughts and have some fun, let me state the following heirarchy of 21st century Brahmins (Brāhmanas).


1 is highest in this ranking and most desirable :)




1. Word loosely means in relation to brahman. One that is aspiring to be enlightened and realize one's true nature.
In today's world there are a few people in my experience worthy of this word. Some are Sannyasis from India. I have come across very few Americans in my life who fits the description of the word.


2. Brāhmanas defined by their Satvic nature. Sattva nature is characterized by "goodness", peace, cleanliness, and knowledge. Rajas nature is characterized by action, passion, creation,emotion etc. Tamas nature is characterized by darkness, ignorance, slowness, destruction, heaviness, disease etc. All humans have combination of all of these three Gunas. A person with primarily Saatva and bit of Rajas and almost no Tamas is considered a Brāhmana by their nature & character. This is the type of Brāhmanas that some of our scriptures like B.Gita refers to. I know many people from many different countries falling into this. Some are not even practicing Hindu and one I know is actually Atheist. Most Indians I have come across do not fall into this group here in my experience.Almost always they tend choose to become vegetarians and/or vegans. However just because someone is a Vegan does not mean they can be called Brāhmana by nature.


3. Brāhmana by pursuit of knowledge. This includes modern day Professors who are primarily Sattvic and have dedicated their life to learning and teaching worthy students. They also include great scientists like Newton, Eisntein and Hawking. They tend to embrace value of integrity essential to true pursuit of knowledge. It does not include those who put others down even if they are pursuing knowledge


4.Brāhmana by profession: These are priests in Hindu temples. They have spent many years learning to memorize many verses and display a sincere interest to follow traditions.They are usually poor (Dharidhra Brhamanas). I once heard a joke. If you want to curse someone close to you like your son then you you give this following curse - "May you become a priest in a Hindu temple in USA in your next life" . These priests are generally exploited by most temple management types. Of late these priests are getting more clever and are learning the ways of survival. I even heard of a priest who asked for stock option for Dhakshina :) Most priests do not want their children to follow their profession.


5. Brahmna by birth and culture. Most people do not know ABC of any of the traditions but they learn rote method to recite a lot of blah-blah. They celebrate functions often without knowing significance, make things up to suit their convenience, feel proud of their heritage. All in all they are harmless and follow their cultural traditions and amend them as they go along


6. Brahmana by birth who give bad name to the word. In another era these are the people that exploited caste heirarchy for small personal gain. In modern day these are people that tend to be narrow minded even while trying to think they are liberal in their outlook . These confused people that usually cause verbal harm to others . A few if they leave India are proud to put down India after 'drinking the cup of western wisdom' .




Do you have a heirarchy like this in mind :)?

where is the fun in this? please point it out. thanks :)
 

Nara

Well-known member
and probably includes yours truly, nara and yourself, all resident usa/canada brahmins..
K, it is true that by accident of birth I was a brahmin, and for much of my life I thought of myself as a Brahmin. But, if I can be permitted a moment of immodesty, I would like to state that I am proud that I don't think of myself as a Brahmin for a while now, not at all.

BTW, talking about fun, perhaps we may yet have a little "fun" with this. Let us see, how about the following....

1. There are those who are born into poor vaideeka families, go to Veda patashala, have high respect for Vedas, try to perform all anushtanams, eke out a living chanting Vedas etc.

2. Then there is the Vadyar type, perform family rituals like ayush-homam, wedding, etc. They put on a good show, make decent money, don't care too much for anushtanam, etc. Many are honest, but many are greedy as well, but then aren't we all the same way?

3. Brahmins going to udyogam. They are normally quite uninformed about religious texts. They have outsized opinion about their own birth-based brahminical tradition, A or VA, etc. They never tire of saying A is the greatest, Sanatana Darma is the ultimate, and so on. Mostly they have no time for sandyavandhanam, but may do some of tarpanams as convenient. They whine about the reservation system with good reason as they are the ones who face the real brunt of shrinking opportunities.

4. Brahmins who have professional careers. These are members of the economical middle and upper-middle class. They have superficial knowledge of religious texts, they are convinced of the superiority of the so called Hindusim, the wisdom buried in the Vedas. They mostly don't have time for anustanams. They usually are more concerned with their career than religion. On occasion they may put on the Brahmin garb and act as one during special occasions.

5. Some from the #4 hierarchy put on a chip or two on their shoulders and graduate up to #5. They put on the Brahmin costume and act the role almost every weekend. They derive immense satisfaction in exhibiting a sort of more-Brahmin-than-thou attitude with respect to the #3 and #4 categories. Often they act as the high priests in procession of true wisdom. They claim a self-invested ability and authority to declare the "true" nature everything.

Now, the level of respect, understanding and sympathy for the Brahminical feelings these five categories of Brahmins deserve declines exponentially as we go from #1 to #5, so much so, that one is left with nothing but pure contempt for the #5 category.

Whether this is fun or not, I don't know, but I sure know all this is much ado about nothing.

Anyway, let me repeat my call to every individual member of this forum who is already not tending towards #5, especially ones in #3 and just barely into #4 -- abandon the thought you are a Brahmin, free yourself from this prison, get back to the basic humanity with which all of us were born, cast aside the caste-based thinking, these feelings are not natural, they are just hoisted upon our psyche by family and society. The freedom that awaits you is heavenly, I promise.

Cheers!
 

prasad1

Well-known member
prasad,

tks feels, to answer your queries, the way i see it, is to forget brahmin subsects like smarthas, brahacharanam, thenkalai, vadagalai...with a new set of good to bad brahmins, with foreign domiciled Bs, automatically termed 'narrow minded, confused, venomous, verbally abusive..and all such bad stuff :)

to help out in understand where each one of us fits in this category, he has classified #6 ie living abroad brahmins. good to know that tks lives in the usa and how he sees himself (with modesty). and probably includes yours truly, nara and yourself, all resident usa/canada brahmins :)

personally, i would like call all of us as hindu, and learn to consider ourselves hindus first, and last. which, per my earlier note, i think, is the mindset of north american hindu desis. i think anyway :)

hope this satisfies your query, sort of...best wishes..

Thanks K,
If that is the purpose I want no part of it.
Of course I am the Supreme Brahman itself (aham brahmasmi). LOL:clap2:
 
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Govinda

New member
Anyway, let me repeat my call to every individual member of this forum who is already not tending towards #5, especially ones in #3 and just barely into #4 -- abandon the thought you are a Brahmin, free yourself from this prison, get back to the basic humanity with which all of us were born, cast aside the caste-based thinking, these feelings are not natural, they are just hoisted upon our psyche by family and society. The freedom that awaits you is heavenly, I promise.

Cheers!

How is wearing a pancha-kacham to sport religious marks (for humility/surrender to the Creator/Lord) on the body, doing sandhya (for unity in thought/word/deed)/prnAyamA (saluting the nature/sun/deities/pitrs and for cleaner breath), make a clean/healthy food and offer to the Lord (for thanking such gift/sacrifice), listening to such discourses on elevating one's conscious level, all become a caste mark?? It is a religious mark a hindu adheres to.

India being a secular nation, as a muslim wears a pardha/beard, christian sports a cross/white dress, a hindu wears his mark. People overtime gave up such marks, as they weren't able to practice the subsidiaries (habits) needed for such activities. How has practising any of hindu, becomes a mark of ego/superiority/in-equality?

I never knew, after some ir-regular hindu practice, one graduates to Atheism ;)
 
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Govinda

New member
Thanks K,
If that is the purpose I want no part of it.
Of course I am the Supreme Brahman itself (aham brahmasmi). LOL:clap2:

Prasad,

When did You and I become Brahman? Brahman means the highest, the expanding, Infinite. We can't even be very mobile, after 45 years, with joint pains and tendonitis, and can't even sense/mind control ourselves, how did we become the powerful Brahman??
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
How is wearing a pancha-kacham to sport religious marks (for humility/surrender to the Creator/Lord) on the body, doing sandhya (for unity in thought/word/deed)/prnAyamA (saluting the nature/sun/deities/pitrs and for cleaner breath), make a clean/healthy food and offer to the Lord (for thanking such gift/sacrifice), listening to such discourses on elevating one's conscious level, all become a caste mark?? It is a religious mark a hindu adheres to.

India being a secular nation, as a muslim wears a pardha/beard, christian sports a cross/white dress, a hindu wears his mark. People overtime gave up such marks, as they weren't able to practice the subsidiaries (habits) needed for such activities. How has practising any of hindu, becomes a mark of ego/superiority/in-equality?

dear govinda,

let me take a crack at this one.

have you noticed, the number of threads in this forum, devoted to slokas rituals traditions and queries related to the same?

it is understood, by one and all, including me, that where there is a sincere query and practice, one respects it. nobody bothers them.

there are so many panchakaccham clad savants populating our temple verandhas, murmuring devarams and suchlike. all these do not go about wearing their religion in their mouth and nethi, but in their heart.

let me do one innuendo thing here - we have folks here in the forum, pompous to the core, who think to be born a brahmin is the next best thing to sliced bread, have a deep contempt for all other castes, who cry wolf whenever they hear of conversions or minority assertiveness, but whose idea of hinduism is a brahmin led jihad against other faiths and who still think manu is the greatest law giver on earth. to add to this, they feel, the rest of tamil nadu would have gone along with this, had not it been for periyar.

when you have such ostrich like attitudes, i for one, cannot help, and it is very tempting, to prick a pin into the asses of those pompous baloons, and hear the fart, loud and clear. my only relief, is that we still cannot transmit smell through the internet and i hope it remains that way.

i hope i am clear here, and if you find this post offensive, it is meant to be to give an example of what we 'brahmin bashers' have to put up with, and inspite of which, we are polite and courteous. most of the time anyway :) atleast we hope so :) ok...some of the times :)

cheers.
 

biswa

New member
The very idea of "Hierarchy" in the Opening Post is a problem for me!

There starts the controversy!

The thinking of a "Hierarchy" by our forefathers only started the Pathology in the Society, and the idea continues even in the early 21st Century!

Is this not sad?

:)

Mr. Yamaka, I understand the noble nature of your post, but let me debate on the naturalness of the hierarchy concept after taking the caste question out of it. Like you, I do not place one human being above another. However just for the sake of debate:

People like to categorize and classify information, because all the details do not easily fit into one's head and one tends to simplify by abstracting concepts into hierarchies. Let me give an example which I am sure you are very familiar with.

Carl Linneaus proposed the taxonomy which even until today is used to order all living species into a hierarchy. In this taxonomy, an animal species must belong to a phylum, class, genus etc all the way down to species. One problem of course is that if a species belongs to a particular class (say mammal) it cannot ever be classified as anything else.

Nonetheless, we like to classify ourselves as Phylum Chordata Subphylum Vertebrata Class Mammalia and so on all the way to Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

Don't you find it natural that now some social scientists would like to extrapolate it all the way to Homo Sapiens Indian Hindu Brahmin Smartha Iyer ...

You and I may disagree with the classification, but surely they have a right to classify?
 

biswa

New member
4. Brahmins who have professional careers. These are members of the economical middle and upper-middle class. They have superficial knowledge of religious texts, they are convinced of the superiority of the so called Hindusim, the wisdom buried in the Vedas. They mostly don't have time for anustanams. They usually are more concerned with their career than religion. On occasion they may put on the Brahmin garb and act as one during special occasions.

5. Some from the #4 hierarchy put on a chip or two on their shoulders and graduate up to #5. They put on the Brahmin costume and act the role almost every weekend. They derive immense satisfaction in exhibiting a sort of more-Brahmin-than-thou attitude with respect to the #3 and #4 categories. Often they act as the high priests in procession of true wisdom. They claim a self-invested ability and authority to declare the "true" nature everything.

Well said! But let me embellish on points 4 and 5. This is solely my experience in the US. I know India is different.

In many temples here, there are a few full-time priests, but there are also a few part-time Brahmins (as you mention) who assist the priest on evenings/weekends. Some wear the full formal garb of a priest, but others just western regular clothes. They chant some mantras, hand over dravyas for abhishekam etc.

So I personally haven't seen much of an attitude from these weekend brahmins. They seem to help the pujari and devotees somewhat selflessly. Now I understand someone may not believe in reciting some verses in Sanskrit or in pouring milk over a stone idol, but for those who do, what's the harm in helping them out?

I do agree that Brahminical attitudes are stronger in India.
 

Govinda

New member
i hope i am clear here, and if you find this post offensive, it is meant to be to give an example of what we 'brahmin bashers' have to put up with, and inspite of which, we are polite and courteous. most of the time anyway :) atleast we hope so :) ok...some of the times :)

cheers.

Uprooting the very likely spiritual concepts of keeping the society healthy, is not going to solve any problem. So, you guys simply want to promote the shallow idea of equality, through IC marriages. B's dont have any reservations on the IC cases, if they are genuine or accepted by their families.

But the idea of in-equality exists even within the same sections of the society/community, one has to work primarily on. The alliances between B's and NB's, are lauded as 'Universal love', may have been simply based on career/citizenship/status prospects, why can't they marry or uplift the poor/under-privileged sections of their or other community? Why didn't the rich Naidus and Reddys marry the poor factions of their community, they always educated their sons for claiming dowries? Why did the B's and NB's, find Universal Love with whites, and not with hindus? Don't be simply hog-washed by the shallow claims of the youngsters, most for them are not genuine!

I don't support all the B's either, they are mostly for defiance/opportunism, but if NB's seek B's it may genuinely be for other person's intelligence or values or qualities. So, NB alliances and B's parents should be careful ;)

Next, these new adventures of younger generations, simply feather these shallow claims of equality. I know of worst teenage cases who put their NB Indian parents in trouble (jail) in US. Those days, I know why NB girls were never allowed to visit anyone's houses, simply for the lack of ethics in others! Plus, their iron-willed sons guarded them from the flirting men.

These cases are not only with the societies, even in the case of employment. The B and NB's of those years were ex-communicated for abusing the worker-class classy/fleshy women [though some escaped!] We have ample of such abuses in hospitals though mostly between genders and otherwise, between various cadres, among lawyers and clients, directors and actors, politicians and workers etc.

Coming to the Religion, we have ample traditions in our one Hindu faith, and there are no compulsions in adorning their marks/beliefs/customs. But, of-course, there are opportunities to consider other options and change.
 
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sangom

Well-known member
Anyway, let me repeat my call to every individual member of this forum who is already not tending towards #5, especially ones in #3 and just barely into #4 -- abandon the thought you are a Brahmin, free yourself from this prison, get back to the basic humanity with which all of us were born, cast aside the caste-based thinking, these feelings are not natural, they are just hoisted upon our psyche by family and society. The freedom that awaits you is heavenly, I promise.

Cheers!

Shri Nara,

As a B (or BB according to perspective of some here about me), let me say that for a B living in India it is difficult to be free of the knowledge or awareness, that he/she is a brahmin, because this label stares at you at every corner, whether you would like it or not. So, I feel we here may not be able to abandon the thought of being brahmin. But it is easy to keep that awareness, notion, whatever, from doing further mischief, just as my name by itself does not give me any special attributes (other than identification), powers or privileges in society.

Much of the problem arises when a brahmin does certain acts (like "wearing a pancha-kacham to sport religious marks (for humility/surrender to the Creator/Lord) on the body, doing sandhya (for unity in thought/word/deed)/prnAyamA (saluting the nature/sun/deities/pitrs and for cleaner breath), make a clean/healthy food and offer to the Lord (for thanking such gift/sacrifice), listening to such discourses on elevating one's conscious level, etc.) but these have the uncanny knack of not remaining simply as caste marks, but become caste superiority marks as well in no time. No wonder, a true brahmin is related (is it 'onnu vitta' or 'renTu vitta'?) to BRAHMAN, the one that continuously expands, and causes to grow (what? caste superiority!?) "bṛmhayati iti brahma".
 

Govinda

New member
but these have the uncanny knack of not remaining simply as caste marks, but become caste superiority marks as well in no time. No wonder, a true brahmin is related (is it 'onnu vitta' or 'renTu vitta'?) to BRAHMAN, the one that continuously expands, and causes to grow (what? caste superiority!?) "bṛmhayati iti brahma".

"bṛmhayati iti brahma", there is nothing that is left out by Brahman. But, the ruler of one's qualities/nature is still within one's consciousness/Self and gets the Karma/varied body acc. to that Ruler's value. Thus, none becomes Brahman, but everyone realizes Brahman eventually.
 

Nara

Well-known member
... for a B living in India it is difficult to be free of the knowledge or awareness, that he/she is a brahmin, because this label stares at you at every corner, whether you would like it or not.
Yes Sangom sir, I do understand this difficulty in India. However, I was talking about the way we see ourselves internally. In other words, more than what we think we are seen as by others, I am talking about how we see ourselves.

Others may continue to see me as a Brahmin, but what do I see when I look inside? Do I see a wish to be seen as a Brahmin, or do I see happiness in being just a human being, that is the question I want all critical thinking people to ask of themselves. My call is for people born as Brahmins to rise above the internal Brahmin identity foisted upon our psyche and return to our original caste-free pristine state.

If our neighbors continue to see us as Brahmins it is their problem, not ours.

Cheers!
 

sangom

Well-known member
My call is for people born as Brahmins to rise above the internal Brahmin identity foisted upon our psyche and return to our original caste-free pristine state.

If our neighbors continue to see us as Brahmins it is their problem, not ours.

Cheers!

Shri Nara,

I feel, and that too somewhat confidently, that the individual psyche is really not the culprit in this matter. It is more due to the indoctrination which takes place almost 24 X 7 in any tabra household which makes people's psyche develop that peculiar feeling of "brahminsense" instead of commonsense :).

I say this because my son is, let us say about 50% brahmin, his wife, hailing from a north-Indian brahmin lineage is about 25% brahmin. But my grandson, born and being brought up in London is innocent of this brahminsense as of now (only 5 years old) and I fervently hope that the parents do not indoctrinate him to acquire some 30 to 40% brahmin feeling. Only future can tell.

It is a peculiar type of cocoon, or say OCS, this "brahmin" feeling; and like the proverbial காயம் வைத்த சொப்பு, it will continue to linger even if one is not conforming to brahmin way of living 99.999%! (and I think that will explain some members here getting rather uneasy and irritated to read plain truths.)

Because of this long half-life of the radio-active material that the brahminsense is, may be it was just natural for tks to device gradations among brahmins. Out of his 6 grades, only that in which he himself will fit in, may have to be ranked as the best. The rest may be downgraded to sudras and, just as we had "kshatropeta" brahmins once upon a time (as per HH), we will have "sudropeta" brahmins now onwards!
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Mr. Yamaka, I understand the noble nature of your post, but let me debate on the naturalness of the hierarchy concept after taking the caste question out of it. Like you, I do not place one human being above another. However just for the sake of debate:

People like to categorize and classify information, because all the details do not easily fit into one's head and one tends to simplify by abstracting concepts into hierarchies. Let me give an example which I am sure you are very familiar with.

Carl Linneaus proposed the taxonomy which even until today is used to order all living species into a hierarchy. In this taxonomy, an animal species must belong to a phylum, class, genus etc all the way down to species. One problem of course is that if a species belongs to a particular class (say mammal) it cannot ever be classified as anything else.

Nonetheless, we like to classify ourselves as Phylum Chordata Subphylum Vertebrata Class Mammalia and so on all the way to Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

Don't you find it natural that now some social scientists would like to extrapolate it all the way to Homo Sapiens Indian Hindu Brahmin Smartha Iyer ...

You and I may disagree with the classification, but surely they have a right to classify?
Biswa, am sure you very well know social scientists are not the creators of the classification, so wonder why you say "they" have the "right" to classify. Those poor social scientists are merely using terms which they did not create, in order to study/explain social models.

Once upon a time i too fell for the idea that everything gets classified, so classifying humans based on varna is fine. After reading what various religious texts say, i realise what an utter fool i was.

This varna classification of humans is an unnatural system, based on a hateful ideology of segregation to support and spur feudalistic mentality. It is about keeping access to the best of resources for oneself only.

This classification system depended on useless fools (tribals) who fought against one another for conquering resources. The winners who supported 'divine feudal laws' were elevated in rank to provide resources to the system, while the rest were put down.

There is nothing natural in this system like Phylum Chordata Subphylum Vertebrata Class Mammalia and so on all the way to Homo Sapiens Sapiens.......Such an equivalance of comparison simply does not exist.

Regards.
 
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