-
This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
God Exists
- Thread starter Brahin
- Start date
- Status
Hello Biswa:
Recall the OP, if you go and pay the Barber (here the God), he will cut your hair!
Every 500 posts or so, someone goes back to the OP to put forth his/her argument. Now that you have equated barber = God, for the purpose of this thread, please answer the following questions of mine specifically:
1. Does your SET have any permanent solution to mitigate my necessity to go to the barber periodically.
2. I am not impressed with the present equipments like scissors, shaving cream, razor etc. which can only give periodic solutions. I am interested in permanent solution, so that there is no necessity for me to to the barber at all. Till such time you have a permanent solution, your SET is only cosmetic according to my needs.
3. Please give SET solution existing as on today and not some forward looking statement like SET is making great progress and in future. say something like 100 years, 500 years, 10000 years etc. we will have SET providing solutions to all the problems. Such futuristic statements, thrown around rather freely in this forum are most "unscientific" when science itself does not make such prognosis.
4. Till such time there is a permanent solution, there is no reason for atheists to speculate on the speculations of theists like whether the barber responds to PPB, JPK, etc. and whether the God cuts the hair/shaves only for a fee or does He do it free or whether He deceives by taking the fees and disappears without doing cutting the hair
Last edited:
sangom
0
Dear Ravi,
I very much appreciate your asking your doubt boldly. I take it that you find my 'belief' in astrology does not go with my avowed disbelief in god, religion, the truth of the scriptural legends, and so on.
My humble explanation is that, as explained by me more than once in past threads in this forum, I find (and consider) astrology as a "time marker" device just like the sundial to the most modern wristwatch. When the hands show 6 and 12, approximately around that point of time the world wakes up; similarly, when the short hand shows 11 or 12 and the long hand comes near 12 after sunset, most villages and towns will be in deep sleep, and so on.
Now some people can interpret these as the clock hands and the numerals on the dial as having supernatural powers and "causing" certain effects; I believe that we have observed the tendency of the world and come to certain judgments; for example (not a very good one) a housebreaking thief is more likely to make his operations because he will normally find most people in deep sleep during the period 2:00 to 4:00 AM. So, a security guard will be more vigilant during this period.
In a very similar way, it is possible to 'predict' with some rough amount of accuracy certain events in one's life from the horoscope. Since I spent some time and efforts to learn the science, if any, behind astrology, I try to give my views in some of the cases where members had raised their problems. That's all. But I have never endorsed 'parihaarams', nor have I supported the "sani peyarchi" phobia/mania, etc.
I may bring in here one small anecdote. My father-in-law had some discomfort in his stomach one morning and by the next day, after many lab. tests, mri, and all, it was diagnosed as liver cancer. The family doctor then said that depending upon whether it turns out malignant and the extent to which it has already spread, my fil might live for anything from a few weeks to few months. Biopsy confirmed it to be malignant and my fil expired after 3 weeks. Astrological prediction of timing of events is similar; an assessment is made from past experiences and such an assessment is imposed upon the case in question with such modifications as human intellect is capable of doing.
I therefore feel that as long as one does not talk about such-and-such planet causing such-and-such hardship, doing 'parihaarams' to appease that planet etc., there is no conflict between agnosticism and practice of astrology, I believe. Looking forward to your comments,pl.
sangom
0
Shri KRS,
Under Indian conditions even without writing any exam (and not even turning in one sheet of blank answer paper) people can get degrees and even Ph.D.s without one page of thesis. May be the personal gods of myriad hues are so strong here because of these; but all of them like money more than prayer!
sangom
0
Yes, of course. And evil is by unwritten rule, "that which is unsuitable or inconvenient to me/us", if one reads the puranas.
This category of people are self sufficient and as you mention would have their own living gods.
Sri KRS comments were directed at the rest.
C RAVI
0
Shri Sangom,
Thank you for your response.
I have quoted above, only the specific paras of your post #1903, that are relevant (though not at all convincing) with respect to my previous post to you, for the ease of obtaining further clarifications from your end.
I am sorry to state that your replies to my questions to you (in my previous post) are not at all clear to the point and convincing to me.
Please corelate my below statements in each para with the respective quoted para above, in bold, in 1), 2) & 3) listing.
1) Yes, your belief in and practice of astrology does not go with your disbelief in God / Supernatural powers. I am practicing astrology too. And I bet, not a single person who practices astrology, derives time frame of probable future events, good time/bad time, possible financial constrains at present and or in future, possible health issues of a specific sort in a short notice or at a very later stage etc.etc would ever hold disbelief in God/ Supernatural powers / Planetary influences beyond human control etc. But suprisingly you do this. If you don't believe in Planetary influences on humans life with respect to their health, auspecious events like marriage, education, health, job, finance, mental stress, accidents etc..etc.., I could not believe as how come you could show interest in hora shastra, learn it and give your predictions, interpreting the horoscope that has a specific planetary configuration, indicating one's wholesome life?
2) Sir, your following statement is very much insufficient and confusing to me. You said - "In a very similar way, it is possible to 'predict' with some rough amount of accuracy certain events in one's life from the horoscope".
Sir, yes, it is possible to predict with some rough amount of accuracy from the horoscope. Not a single person who practices astrology would contradict your statement. But the thing that is so vogue and ambiguous to me is - On what basis do you calculate and derive the time frame for the specific event to take place (say marriage or job) ? Isn't it based on Maha Dasa period, Dasa Bukthi period (each dasa and dasa bukthi Lord/graha) , Placement of specific planets (including that of Dasa and Dasa Bukhi Lord) in specific houses/zodiac signs (favorable , unfavourable), planetory aspects on each other etc. etc, that all forms the total configuration and the respective impact during a particular time period at present and in future?
When horoscope interpretations- calculating and deriving event timings, the nature of positive/negative impacts considering the Planet(s) in action as per the horo config as well as asper the influences of planets on Gochara transit are all based on the tendencies of the 9 planets and the favorable and unfavorable influences of all such 9 planets as per one's horoscope, How can you distinguish these supernatural powers that influences the human life with that of your own horo interpretation that you claim has nothing to do with your belief in God / Super natural powers?
Sir, I am curious to know if you have your own formulated horo interpretation tools and skills to make some rough calculations of timings of event, that got nothing to do with all 9 planets, their operating time period and their nature of impact on human life/caliber/tendencies/qualities etc and that of zodiac signs and the houses from 1(lagna) -12 that reperesnt differnt aspects/events/acts in one's life and the qualities/tendencies of a person?
If you don't have your own hora shastra ignoring all the above aspects of vedic hora shastra, how could you ignore accepting the influences of 9 Planets/super natural powers in human life?
3) Sir, let us not ponder on the validity of pariharams and that of fooling innocent people for the sake of money in the name of pariharams. I am not into this while discussing with you on your astrology practices and your disbelief in God / Super Natural powers.
Sir, it doesn't matter if we as astrologer speak out to the seeker as which planet is causing what sort of effect OR if we don't explain such things at all. The point is, we analyse the horo config of 9 planets, their nature, their strength , their tendencies as per their placement in specefic house/zodiac signs, planetory aspects etc and derive the results to the best of our ability. In most of the cases it comes very true including in knowing the qualities/tendencies of a person.
So, what am saying is, whether you explain the seeker about each planet's influences or not, whether you give them pariharams or not, whether you threaten a person with 71/2 saturn and required remedial measures or not, how come you, as a practicing astrologer, ignore the influences of Supernatural powers on human life?
With knowledge in astrology, you must also be aware that each Graha got Adi Devatha and Prathyathi Devatha (representing lords) and that doing simple prayers to these Devathas (God/Goddess) can mitigate the negative influences of unfavourably disturbing planet and enhancing the strength of the favorably fecilitating planets, as per one's horoscope.
How come you could hold the dichotomy - "Belief in Astrology-Disbelief in God/ Supernatural powers" much valid?
Kindly clarify, if you please.
sangom
0
That's why I refuse to acknowledge any LUCK playing any part in my life, for which our dear KRS called me "impudent"!
What an abuse of English word!!
Cheers.
Shri Y,
As you may well know, the god-believers feel very strongly that whatever good things happen to a person (including his getting a timely meal) is because of the personal God's grace; on the contrary, if something goes wrong, that is due to the said person's own karma or fault.
Thus, the theists' world view is that all human existence is uniformly destined to utter misery and doom and what little happens is all entirely due to the personified god's mercy and compassion. Hence each human is ever duty-bound to go on thanking god endlessly and to sing paeans of god's greatness. That is humility which endears one to god more.
Must be a very special kind of personality, such a god!
Dear Happy Hindu,
You have given Yamaka 11 heads and made him sound like Ravan.
Since Ravan had 10 heads and Yamaka has one extra head that means
Yamaka is the new Ra One( Ravan + 1 extra head)
So what is the Yamaka-vadham? Chammak Challo?
C RAVI
0
Dear HH,
Good-Evil; Right-Wrong; Requirements-No requirements are all allways relative and a differing factor for each individual.
What one realizes and what one achieves directly on his/her own and indirectly (through others) due one's own actions in the past and at present is the only truth for one self during one's life span.
Realization often got to do with the contradiction / confliction between the rational brain and the consciousness of the heart. Here Sprituality guides/helps humans to overcome such conflicting situation and fecilitates actions and reactions to be carried out with righteousness.
Reasonable selflessness, genuinity, humility, righteousness may not prevail in all the required/demanding situations and humans may tend to do wrong things and certainly would face its consequences sooner or later, in some way.
Practicing Spirituality would help over come the conflicting tendencies between the rational brain and conscious heart and would help a person to refrain from wrong doing, in any ways and means.
The sense of balance for the good can be acheived with the spiritual energies in a stable and constant manner.
The path of spirituality can be many and any. It can be in the name of God or some Super natural powers or considering onself as the only truth to work towards all righteousness, as per one's belief and acceptance. The end result is based on what you did by your thoughts, words and actions and what's your accumulated KARMA.
sangom
0
Shri narayan,
Pardon me for intruding. But set has "electrolytic depilation" which has been in use for quite sometime and many cinema actresses and other female celebrities reportedly have used it for permanent effect. Hope this will work for you also.
But I do not find anywhere god being considered as a miracle barber who will keep hair from further growth if once he does the hair-cut himself. On the contrary, even "ELukoNTlavaaDu" desires the shaven pates to sport hairy growth as fast as possible so that he will earn around Rs. 150 crores!
C RAVI
0
Dear HH,
Just a friendly note to clarify. Hope you would not mind me negatively for this.
Shri Yamaka is an epitome of die hard human with optimism, bravery, intelligence, self sufficiency, practical, highly pragmatic and a naturalist respecting the law of the nature and the law of the land.
He is challenging the believers on the Existence of God in a very strong and straight forward manner, as per his belief and the intelligence of his rational brain. He is a successful man in all the aspects of his life and doing his best to enlighten folks in the right spirit with the only intention of good to prevail in this world.
I don't think any member here, as believers, have any wrong intentions and attitudes towards Shri Yamaka.None of us have any disrespect towards him. Shri Yamaka is presenting his stand here very assertavely against the believers as an Atheist and as such believers are counter arguing with him as much as possible with some anology as and when it strikes in the flow.
It would be nice if we refrain from provoking each other negatively in support and in against of others.
In a debate like this, certainly there would be two strongly apposing camps on a subject matter. Let us debate in a right spirit without showing any special attachement to each other and in that attempt to instigate hatred and ill will towards each other.
My above note is in general for all of us.
guruvayurappan
Active member
dear ravi !
your post#1907 is very educative about astrology and contains the basic of horoscope.
good luck
guruvayuappan
your post#1907 is very educative about astrology and contains the basic of horoscope.
good luck
guruvayuappan
Thankyou for the kind note Ravi. Discounting you, am not sure everyone agrees with certain things you say. But well, everyone is entitled to their view-points. Except that it needs to come without smelling bad.
guruvayurappan
Active member
dear happy hindu !
Mr. Ravi 's view will be agreed by majority and there need not be a doubt.we are reading Mr. Yamaka's posts and accept some rational thinking even though we are not able to accept his anti -God interpretations.As educated and civilized no body will get happiness out of his suffering.Some members want to make him villian turned hero which is not the aim of this forum. let us get more useful and interesting information which will be benebicial to all
cheers,
guruvayurappan
Mr. Ravi 's view will be agreed by majority and there need not be a doubt.we are reading Mr. Yamaka's posts and accept some rational thinking even though we are not able to accept his anti -God interpretations.As educated and civilized no body will get happiness out of his suffering.Some members want to make him villian turned hero which is not the aim of this forum. let us get more useful and interesting information which will be benebicial to all
cheers,
guruvayurappan
Thankyou sir. Very happy to see this. Best wishes.
dear praveen,
thank you very much for advise.will take it.
sorry for any inconvenience caused.
it is case closed on my side.
regards,
Brahin Brahmanisth
N
Nara
Guest
Dear Narayan, come on my friend, you know this is completely illogical. A barber-like God exists or not can be debated without one side having to find permanent solution to anything -- these are completely unrelated.
Cheers!
S
Servall
Guest
Dear Yamaka:
It is very ironic that you want to play a game and settle the score about existence of God between you and I and several other members here, a debate that has raged on for several milleniums!! I sincerely doubt if you, I or anyone here (with no disrespect intended) has enough wisdom, knowledge and demonstrated authority to prove the existence of God, let alone define God!!
When I signed up for this forum, it was certainly was not my intent to prove the existence of my God or to disprove the non-existence of your Un-God, if I may say so. We all dance to different drums, define our own dharma in life, prioritize and achieve goals that are meaningful and make us happy.
I am very proud of your accomplishments in your life, and you are not alone, I have known and read of many believers and non-believers who have accomplished greater things that made them and others around them proud. To me, as Sai said, education, when correctly pursued, bestows upon an individual wisdom and character to discriminate between what is wrong and right, yet, people make their own choice to do different things, some good and some bad, to accomplish their goals.
Achievements mean different things to different people; for some money, for some power, for some ego, and for some nobility. Ambani, Forbes, and Sachin are achievers too; closer to home, we have seen a cancer victim, named Terry Fox, who walked across the country with one wooden leg to create awareness of cancer and raised millions of dollars; go figure what is a more meaningful achievement, not withstanding the fact, we do need Ambanis, and Sachins!! I have been humbled by many instances in life; I will tell you a very simple story close to home. I know of a very educated and sharp Infrastructure Consultant, his going rate is at least $ 175/- an hour if he chooses to travel, yet, yet, he made a choice to take an eveningoffshore role at less than half his rate so he can volunteer during the day ata senior home to work with terminally ill. When I called him for a new yearparty, he kindly declined my offer so he could organize a bunch of kids toentertain at the senior center. Here is a young man in his late twenties whocould work 10-15 years and retire made a choice to answer his clarion call tobe of service to needy, this is also an achievement. Many non-believers also doselfless work, they may deny God but I still think they have the Godliness!! Ihave more respect for people like this and others who are selfless, than thearmchair pundits who freely dish out sermons of what is God, constantly bashwhat a certain community may have done centuries ago. I have no clue whatconstructive accomplishments they have done to uplife the needy around them. Somy dharma is probably not too different from yours Y, hard work, set goals, andachieve; just that the goals may be different; and I pray constantly that mydeep conscience lets me follow those dreams with no harm to ones around me.Having answer my own conscience when I need to make decisions, keep me on thetoes that if I go astray, I stand to pay for it sometime!!
I know I probably didnt answer any of your questions, but somewhere in betweenwhat I said above, lies the answer.
And, I choose not to engage in your debate God vs Un-God, and wish to walk awayfrom it, may be I dont know the answers, or simply because none of us knowenough to answer your questions to settle the score, the conclusion is YOURCHOICE.
But I am curious to find out where your debate with Mr. KRS leads to, mypresumption is perhaps nowhere, except all of us will agree to disagree, holdon to whatever is personal for all of us, and move on!!
Peace out Yamaka.....
It is very ironic that you want to play a game and settle the score about existence of God between you and I and several other members here, a debate that has raged on for several milleniums!! I sincerely doubt if you, I or anyone here (with no disrespect intended) has enough wisdom, knowledge and demonstrated authority to prove the existence of God, let alone define God!!
When I signed up for this forum, it was certainly was not my intent to prove the existence of my God or to disprove the non-existence of your Un-God, if I may say so. We all dance to different drums, define our own dharma in life, prioritize and achieve goals that are meaningful and make us happy.
I am very proud of your accomplishments in your life, and you are not alone, I have known and read of many believers and non-believers who have accomplished greater things that made them and others around them proud. To me, as Sai said, education, when correctly pursued, bestows upon an individual wisdom and character to discriminate between what is wrong and right, yet, people make their own choice to do different things, some good and some bad, to accomplish their goals.
Achievements mean different things to different people; for some money, for some power, for some ego, and for some nobility. Ambani, Forbes, and Sachin are achievers too; closer to home, we have seen a cancer victim, named Terry Fox, who walked across the country with one wooden leg to create awareness of cancer and raised millions of dollars; go figure what is a more meaningful achievement, not withstanding the fact, we do need Ambanis, and Sachins!! I have been humbled by many instances in life; I will tell you a very simple story close to home. I know of a very educated and sharp Infrastructure Consultant, his going rate is at least $ 175/- an hour if he chooses to travel, yet, yet, he made a choice to take an eveningoffshore role at less than half his rate so he can volunteer during the day ata senior home to work with terminally ill. When I called him for a new yearparty, he kindly declined my offer so he could organize a bunch of kids toentertain at the senior center. Here is a young man in his late twenties whocould work 10-15 years and retire made a choice to answer his clarion call tobe of service to needy, this is also an achievement. Many non-believers also doselfless work, they may deny God but I still think they have the Godliness!! Ihave more respect for people like this and others who are selfless, than thearmchair pundits who freely dish out sermons of what is God, constantly bashwhat a certain community may have done centuries ago. I have no clue whatconstructive accomplishments they have done to uplife the needy around them. Somy dharma is probably not too different from yours Y, hard work, set goals, andachieve; just that the goals may be different; and I pray constantly that mydeep conscience lets me follow those dreams with no harm to ones around me.Having answer my own conscience when I need to make decisions, keep me on thetoes that if I go astray, I stand to pay for it sometime!!
I know I probably didnt answer any of your questions, but somewhere in betweenwhat I said above, lies the answer.
And, I choose not to engage in your debate God vs Un-God, and wish to walk awayfrom it, may be I dont know the answers, or simply because none of us knowenough to answer your questions to settle the score, the conclusion is YOURCHOICE.
But I am curious to find out where your debate with Mr. KRS leads to, mypresumption is perhaps nowhere, except all of us will agree to disagree, holdon to whatever is personal for all of us, and move on!!
Peace out Yamaka.....
N
Nara
Guest
Dear Servall, your post was just fine until I reached this point. This is an unnecessary side swipe. What is the point of this "dharma adi"?
Pardon me, but is this is not a little highhanded, kind of -- go fish out the answer from the sermon if you can, I am walking away??? We are all here presenting our views as honestly and as cogently as possible. If you don't wish to answer any questions or not engage in a discussion, that is your prerogative. But to have it both ways with an air of condescension is not very civil, IMO.
Much of what we discuss in this forum may lead to nowhere, so what? Are we to close the site down? Nobody is compelling anyone to come here and waste their time on discussions that take us nowhere. We do it willingly. So, dishing out some sage equanimity, whether intended or not, comes out as nothing more than self congratulatory conceit.
Besides, who is to say a discussion that ends with let us agree to disagree was pointless. There are many silent readers and even if one person stops and thinks it would have been worthwhile.
Cheers!
Last edited by a moderator:
sangom
0
If one is a religious zealot, he/she will be interested in others agreeing to his/her opinion of whether god exists or not. But for ordinary people with faith in god, someone who says he does not believe in god, does not matter at all. Similarly, for anyone who does not believe in the existence of god (atheist) the believers do not pose any problem at all.
Then why we alone, here in this forum, are wasting so much time and energy to insist on our pov being accepted by the opposite side? Looks strange to me!
Then why we alone, here in this forum, are wasting so much time and energy to insist on our pov being accepted by the opposite side? Looks strange to me!
sangom,
i am 100% with you. could never figure this one out.
afaic, those who believe, let them be. those who dont believe let them be. it is a big world to accommodate both.
after all, there are 1001 topics, and only on this if people disagree, there are 1000 more opportunities for agreement. no?
why all this fuss?
1. Several years ago I was playing tennis with my daughter one evening in the neighborhood park. Suddenly, there were large jack fruits (about 10 or so) falling on the court from somewhere. We were frightened. This never happened before.
We both could have been hit with this large fruits and could have been killed or seriously injured. Even today we could not get any answer as to from where those jack fruits came and how did all this happen.
Someone said that probably the cargo door of a plane going overhead broke open and delivered the fruits out, which came crashing down towards the earth, hitting our tennis court!
If those fruits killed us, I would say it's all a very Bad Luck...
Ha, ha, ha! Perhaps there is a God after all!
- Status
Share this page
Similar threads
