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God Exists
- Thread starter Brahin
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tks
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Srvana -
Some people believe that a 'cart pulls the horse' and may even want to rearrange so that cart is in the front of the horse.
To them I say - You are entitled to you belief .. but don't take it personally if I had a nice laugh
Just teasing our "Atheist" friends
N.R.Ranganathan
Active member
Renukaji,
Here is a passage from 'Power of Now' by Eric Tolle
Nothing Exists Outside The Now
Aren't past and future just as real, sometimes even more real, than the present? After all, the past determines who we are, as well as how we perceive and behave in the present. And our future goals determine which actions we take in the present.
You haven't yet grasped the essence of what I am saying because you are trying to understand it mentally. The mind cannot understand this. Only you can. Please just listen.
Have you ever experienced, done, thought, or felt anything outside the Now? Do you think you ever will? Is it possible for anything to happen or
be outside the Now? The answer is obvious, is it not? Nothing ever happened in the past; it happened in the Now. Nothing will ever happen in the future; it will happen in the Now. What you think of as the past is a memory trace, stored in the mind, of a former Now. When you remember the past, you reactivate a memory trace - and you do so now. The future is an imagined Now, a projection of the mind. When the future comes, it comes as the Now. When you think about the future, you do it now. Past and future obviously have no reality of their own. Just as the moon has no light of its own, but can only reflect the light of the sun, so are past and future only pale reflections of the light, power, and reality of the eternal present. Their reality is "borrowed" from the Now.
The essence of what I am saying here cannot be understood by the mind. The moment you grasp it, there is a shift in consciousness from mind to Being, from time to presence. Suddenly, everything feels alive, radiates energy, emanates Being.
Here is a passage from 'Power of Now' by Eric Tolle
Nothing Exists Outside The Now
Aren't past and future just as real, sometimes even more real, than the present? After all, the past determines who we are, as well as how we perceive and behave in the present. And our future goals determine which actions we take in the present.
You haven't yet grasped the essence of what I am saying because you are trying to understand it mentally. The mind cannot understand this. Only you can. Please just listen.
Have you ever experienced, done, thought, or felt anything outside the Now? Do you think you ever will? Is it possible for anything to happen or
be outside the Now? The answer is obvious, is it not? Nothing ever happened in the past; it happened in the Now. Nothing will ever happen in the future; it will happen in the Now. What you think of as the past is a memory trace, stored in the mind, of a former Now. When you remember the past, you reactivate a memory trace - and you do so now. The future is an imagined Now, a projection of the mind. When the future comes, it comes as the Now. When you think about the future, you do it now. Past and future obviously have no reality of their own. Just as the moon has no light of its own, but can only reflect the light of the sun, so are past and future only pale reflections of the light, power, and reality of the eternal present. Their reality is "borrowed" from the Now.
The essence of what I am saying here cannot be understood by the mind. The moment you grasp it, there is a shift in consciousness from mind to Being, from time to presence. Suddenly, everything feels alive, radiates energy, emanates Being.
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C RAVI
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Dear Renuka,
Its just exchange of ideas. No personal finger pointing, I am indulging in here, in this post..
You have stated - "When a bhakta has a honest doubt he/she will be guided to the next step."
When I found some sort of bakthi and subsequent practives in Amala's post, I presented my unsolicity and friendly suggestion as how prayers, chanting mantras, doing pooja by visiting temples ect..should be done with firm belief in GOD, otherwise of which pure peace of mind, satisfaction and realization of GOD can not be achieved.
But, having taken the middle path and holding doubt arising out of debates of "Atheists" & Theists", she passed on her comments, begining with -"This is what I feel Ravi. I'm open to my beleif system. I'm sorry if it doesn't please certain theists. I can't lie for that and say I'm 100% theist", in her post #667, page No.67.
Considering this point of Amala, Shiv's claims are very much withstanding regarding Athests taking over your bhaktha to include in their group.
This claim of Shiv and my similar opinion is very much evident in Sh.Nara's post #744, page No.75. Where an attempt is made to clear off Amala's mind with all sort of ambiguities and to guide her to as how effective and what true sense its make to follow the Middle-Path.
Though Sh. Nara has given a wonderul elaboration on behalf of his Athest community, I am copy pasting, in italics, his concluding statements, that clearly guides/preach Amala as what a true Middle-Path is all about and to what direction one has to fructify this path.
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Obviously, this is not a "middle way". But, organized religion can never be a "middle-path" as it demands blind faith of the religion lock, stock, and barrel. Vedic Brahminism is no exception, it is just as oppressive as other established religions.
To follow a middle-path, people of faith will have to reject organized religion and fashion a path on their own, starting from the religious tradition they are familiar with, and then shaping it to their own innate sense of fairness and compassion. The truly religious can never do that.
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Dear Folks,
I would be spending lot less time here because of a new venture that I started recently. Just wanted to say I had a wonderful time here for the past one year and importantly learnt a lot from you folks. Hope the forum continues its good work of educating and awakening people all over.
Regards
I would be spending lot less time here because of a new venture that I started recently. Just wanted to say I had a wonderful time here for the past one year and importantly learnt a lot from you folks. Hope the forum continues its good work of educating and awakening people all over.
Regards
Dear Ravi,
We both know Amala better than that.She is bluntly honest but as she said she cant call herself 100% Theist.
Ravi many Atheist here have been Theist before. They were "100%"before but not anymore.Do you really think Faith is merely a %.
Ravi do we need to be 100% in anything? Can I say I have 100% in anything.I dare not call myself a Bhakta till God tells me so.
I will qoute Geeta for this:
nehabhikrama-naso 'sti
pratyavayo na vidyate
svalpam apy asya dharmasya
trayate mahato bhayat
SYNONYMS
pratyavayo na vidyate
svalpam apy asya dharmasya
trayate mahato bhayat
SYNONYMS
TRANSLATION
(taken from ISCKON.)
So even Lord Krishna had said that we just need to have even a little faith and that will suffice.
So Amala said not 100% but may be she has 99% Faith.We dont know.
I dont want to comment on Shri Nara's post but many people confuse Middle Path with the State of Semi Denial which I know Amala is not in.
Just to add..The Truly Spiritual will finally rise above Religion and be beyond religion.
How can we forgot the endpoint of Spirituality :
Na Punyam Na Paapam Na Saukhyam Na Dukham
Na Mantro Na Theerthan Na Veda Na Yajna
Aham Bhojanam Naiva Bhojyam Na Bhoktaa
Chidaananda Roopah Shivoham Shivoham
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C RAVI
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Dear Ravi,
We both know Amala better than that.She is bluntly honest but as I said she said she cant call herself 100% Theist.
Ravi many Atheist here have been Theist before. They were "100%"before but not anymore.Do you really think Faith is merely a %.
Ravi do we need to be 100% in anything? Can I say I have 100% in anything.I dare not call myself a Bhakta till God tells me so.
I will qoute Geeta for this:
nehabhikrama-naso 'sti
pratyavayo na vidyate
svalpam apy asya dharmasya
trayate mahato bhayat
SYNONYMSna--there is not; iha--in this world; abhikrama--endeavoring; nasah--loss; asti--there is; pratyavayah--diminution; na--never; vidyate--there is; svalpam--little; api--although; asya--of this; dharmasya--of this occupation; trayate--releases; mahatah--of very great; bhayat--danger.TRANSLATIONIn this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.
(taken from ISCKON.)
So even Lord Krishna had said that we just need to have even a little faith and that will suffice.
So Amala said not 100% but may be she has 99% Faith.We dont know.
I dont want to comment on Shri Nara's post but many people confuse Middle Path with the State of Semi Denial which I know Amala is not in.
Dear Renuka,
You seem to be under utter confusion and some sort of misunderstandings.
Doesn't matter if I know, like or love Amala or not. Doesn't matter if I know you, like you or not...Doesn't matter all this of mine with any of the members here or not.
What I have posted here in this thread and the very exact post of this one, are all only to emphasize the values and belief of we Theist.
Refering to vida etc, can not stand good here in debate, when we present our views as Theists of this era along with Athiests..
The specific point I am highlighting is the state of "Confusion" to persist within oneself. As far as indulging in spiritual practises similar to that of Theist are concerned, a baktha should readily accept the suggestions, if he/she is truly finding GOD and wants to realize and believe in GOD.
Such Baktha should not say that - I'm sorry if it doesn't please certain theists. I can't lie for that and say I'm 100% theist"
Such declarations by learing baktha can not be found in good taste, IMO. Acceptance of the concept of "Middle-Path" can clearly shows one's double stand in the prevailing value systems of humans, in general, without detailing the veidc scriptures.
And that's why we can very clearly find Athiests, picking up such bakthas (who don't wan to consider oneself as theist with 100% affirmation & accepting the "middle-path"), considering them under delusion, confusion and in fix, start elaborating how we religious theist are fooling our self with "middle-path" conncept, start guiding and preaching them to get out of religious theism, get rid of unclear concept of GOD, fashion a fair path on own and live a better life. And that truly religious can never attain - own innate sense of fairness and compassion
Hope you can understand this post well and see clearly the stand of theists and athiest towards the learning baktha who is into spirituality in search of GOD (hopefully).
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Dear Ravi,
This is the second time you have used to word confused on me.My answer remains the same Ravi and I personally feel no one of us should even question that Percentage of Faith for God for anyone when I am not even sure if God "thinks" I qualify as His Bhakta.I do come with lots of flaws too.
See we are no Theist Police here but just sharing our opinion thats all.
With regards to Nara's post that his opinion from the Atheist Camp even though I dont fully agree with it I guess he was also being frank.
Ravi I cant understand this line of yours :
Really ? I am a Theist so Geeta and Vedas are my back up points.If someone chooses not to acknowledge them its their problem and not mine.
BTW I dont consider any knowledge ours..its all loaned from the All Mighty.
DrBarani
0
Tell us what your venture is! End the suspense now!
C RAVI
0
My replies in Blue.
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N.R.Ranganathan
Active member
Dear Mr.Sravana,
Good venture and wish you and your students success.
I think this thread will be active till you rejoin us , for, God's existence is not
going to be proved so easily and in a short span of time. Afterall, Rishis and
sages did many many years of tapas to see HIM within themselves ultimately.!
Good luck sir,
DrBarani
0
Great; tell us your website and I can link it in my (the most popular tamil site in internet site) dosai.com (google rank 1). You can pm if you don't want to list it here.
And drop by once a week. Addictions shouldn't be stopped abruptly! LOL
C RAVI
0
Dear Renuka,
You said - Let others be the Men in Black if they want to be... we dont need to be.
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- Men in Black in other side can be least bothered. But Men in Black in our side need to be bothered and guided honestly. We would be Men in Black only if we ignore good suggestions and mislead others. Let us support the valid points aimed for good suggestions and not indulge in digressing it.
You said - Ravi you wrote:
Let anyone think what they like..Heck I care!!
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- Offcoure, Heck I care too!!!. But for confused bakthas of this era, we got to be more in clear approach, than refering to cryptic vedic texts, that won't be of any fancy for modern era confused Bakthas, considering such texts as confusing, misleading and impractical for the present life..Moreover its been still considered and preached to such confused bakthas by Atheists as "Oppressive" even for citation by we Theists, to guide the confused baktha, who is into spirituality and wants to truly realize God, one fine day.
You said - Let others be the Men in Black if they want to be... we dont need to be.
--------
- Men in Black in other side can be least bothered. But Men in Black in our side need to be bothered and guided honestly. We would be Men in Black only if we ignore good suggestions and mislead others. Let us support the valid points aimed for good suggestions and not indulge in digressing it.
You said - Ravi you wrote:
I told refering vedic scriptures would not stand good here where we have to present ourself with Atheist police, who have considered veda and its teachings zilch and oppressive.
Let anyone think what they like..Heck I care!!
------------
- Offcoure, Heck I care too!!!. But for confused bakthas of this era, we got to be more in clear approach, than refering to cryptic vedic texts, that won't be of any fancy for modern era confused Bakthas, considering such texts as confusing, misleading and impractical for the present life..Moreover its been still considered and preached to such confused bakthas by Atheists as "Oppressive" even for citation by we Theists, to guide the confused baktha, who is into spirituality and wants to truly realize God, one fine day.
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Thanks Dr.Barani. The website is www.sravna.com. I will definitely miss the forum. May be once in a week I should log in as you say.
Thanks Shri.Ranganathan for your wishes. Enduring lessons are learnt in a rigorous way. You are right. The question whether God exists is not going to be answered so easily. Have fun with the discussions!
C RAVI
0
Shri Sravna,
It would be my pleasure to find your postings atleast now and then, as and when you feel comfortable.
I will be missing your active participation, a lot...
N
nachi naga
Guest
Srvana -
Some people believe that a 'cart pulls the horse' and may even want to rearrange so that cart is in the front of the horse.
To them I say - You are entitled to you belief .. but don't take it personally if I had a nice laugh
Just teasing our "Atheist" friends
i like this.as i am reminded of young people saying we created you daddy mommy
N
nachi naga
Guest
i am so amused when bible verses are being quoted out of context,just like how the koran verses are quoted out of context.the abrahamic faiths are part of lord brahmaa manifestation,and this very lord is shunned in india!!na ma shi va ya. s h i v and v i s h are the common beeja aksharas for shiva & vishnu.i am seeing commonality in all,maybe my advaithic leaning prompts me this way.gurbhyo namaha.
Dear Ravi,
I am flattered you think that way! But as I said I hope to participate at least once in a week.
Regards
DrBarani
0
Abraham, Ibrahim, Brahmam... all have the same source. Correct. I think Hinduism spread west, they twisted it to fit their lifestyle.
Jesus is actually spelled "Iesus" in old christian scriptures and pronounced as "EEsha". Of course we know the word ஈசன் exists in all old Tamil literature, therefore, I believe even Hinduism first originated in South!
There are many other parallels.
Christ is more sounding as "Krish". Therefore, Jesus Christ is the equivalent of "SivaRamakrishnan" or "Haridas Siva"... Doh!
If you look at Iraq's map, there is a region called "Muhabharat"... (...Mahabharata).
Of course. Mohammad is the derivative from முகம் மது and we know such words are often created to define Gods in Tamil.
Too many coincidences between three major religions.
S
ShivKC
Guest
i was watching that for quite long time, but didn't want to respond in jerk! guess what ,its about the middle path choice of amala. i know, she will not become an atheist, i can bet every penny i have, but many of the middle path takers are vulnerable to the claws of atheists. thats what im talking about. please dont take it otherway, and make an issue out me.. thats why i want to clarify myself here, since i have seen my name getting referred here for quite some time.
i never questioned her about here thoughts, or her frank expressions. all i said was, 'this kind of middle path would become an easy prey for those who slide on the ends, ie, theists or atheist side. i mean, middle path is quite vulnerable. its like, the cat on the wall. i'm not going to evaluate this analogy with doc.renu's reference to Lord Buddhas teachings about middle path.. thats a different perspective, which im not going to touch here..
i only pick up my view as, 'cat on the wall' and the accompanied term 'vulnerability'.
i am not going to give any scientific proof here, but i can give living eg from this very forum itself (esp, while digging the archives.. you know im good at it, when i exposed the middle-finger hue and cry), how atheist have successfully hijacked this forum for quite some time. i would thank sh.bahrain for stumbling upon opening this thread accidentally, but paid results to counter, i mean counter to the core to those , who were once hard core brahmin bashers.. since this thread has become active, you dont find much tb bashing, cos those atheists are put in to a defensive mode here, instead of their well trained offensive mode taking on brahminism.
back to the core point, how atheists set a ploy here. they were nice, crispy crystal clear to the point , when it comes to b.bashing, and most of the members were helpless there. and they went on to the mode of convincing fellow members, and ran a campaign, like the 'london bus campaign'. and their target, was those, who took the middle path, become friendly like any other evangelist, and then start indoctrinating.
while digging archives, i found this particular case. there was a lady member, very very learned and intelligent ( I admire that member for her knowledge), a non-brahmin (again a middle path), who was doing brahmin bashing left,right and center few months ago. while tracing the time line of posts, her stand changed only when she met up with the atheists..
before that, i mean appx 2 years ago, she was a staunch supported for Vedas, upholder of brahmin values, but taking a middle path in terms of god.. she even challenged to the forum, to show any single flaw in Vedas..
but after mingling with atheists, she got brainwashed, and ventured in to Veda bashing, Kanchi mutt bashing,varna bashing what not.. and atheist were staunch supporters of that.. now they were worried about the in numerous LIKE clicks theists are getting here, but when it was once, the atheist, who started the LIKE clicks culture, when ever that particular person did the post, for sure, there were lot of clicks.
this post of mine is not to target any one in particular, though not sure, now atheists may shoot up and say, im taking vendetta or targeting some one..
i'm afraid, but thought of sharing this living example ,just to warn that, atheism targets these kind of middle path people, and one fine day, you will find that middle path person turning gun on you... just a caution!
i never questioned her about here thoughts, or her frank expressions. all i said was, 'this kind of middle path would become an easy prey for those who slide on the ends, ie, theists or atheist side. i mean, middle path is quite vulnerable. its like, the cat on the wall. i'm not going to evaluate this analogy with doc.renu's reference to Lord Buddhas teachings about middle path.. thats a different perspective, which im not going to touch here..
i only pick up my view as, 'cat on the wall' and the accompanied term 'vulnerability'.
i am not going to give any scientific proof here, but i can give living eg from this very forum itself (esp, while digging the archives.. you know im good at it, when i exposed the middle-finger hue and cry), how atheist have successfully hijacked this forum for quite some time. i would thank sh.bahrain for stumbling upon opening this thread accidentally, but paid results to counter, i mean counter to the core to those , who were once hard core brahmin bashers.. since this thread has become active, you dont find much tb bashing, cos those atheists are put in to a defensive mode here, instead of their well trained offensive mode taking on brahminism.
back to the core point, how atheists set a ploy here. they were nice, crispy crystal clear to the point , when it comes to b.bashing, and most of the members were helpless there. and they went on to the mode of convincing fellow members, and ran a campaign, like the 'london bus campaign'. and their target, was those, who took the middle path, become friendly like any other evangelist, and then start indoctrinating.
while digging archives, i found this particular case. there was a lady member, very very learned and intelligent ( I admire that member for her knowledge), a non-brahmin (again a middle path), who was doing brahmin bashing left,right and center few months ago. while tracing the time line of posts, her stand changed only when she met up with the atheists..
before that, i mean appx 2 years ago, she was a staunch supported for Vedas, upholder of brahmin values, but taking a middle path in terms of god.. she even challenged to the forum, to show any single flaw in Vedas..
but after mingling with atheists, she got brainwashed, and ventured in to Veda bashing, Kanchi mutt bashing,varna bashing what not.. and atheist were staunch supporters of that.. now they were worried about the in numerous LIKE clicks theists are getting here, but when it was once, the atheist, who started the LIKE clicks culture, when ever that particular person did the post, for sure, there were lot of clicks.
this post of mine is not to target any one in particular, though not sure, now atheists may shoot up and say, im taking vendetta or targeting some one..
i'm afraid, but thought of sharing this living example ,just to warn that, atheism targets these kind of middle path people, and one fine day, you will find that middle path person turning gun on you... just a caution!
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S
subbudu1
Guest
ShivKC
It is not the atheist's job to brainwash the people. There were people like Stalin who are often quoted for all disbelievers, atheists, agnostics , sceptics, leftists, rationalists whatever you call this broad class of people.
If you look at history it is the cults started in the name of religion which have caused the problem.
In the distant past religion was a nature worshipping religion, god was an abstract person not a cult head. Till then it was okay. The day began when people started being brainwashed that so and so is the only representative of god, or so and so is an incarnation of god and so on. Since then we have seen violence in the name of religion. The twin towers, the bombay blasts , the threats to guruvayurappan , padmanabhaswamy temple cannot be blamed on a single religion. It is the violence practiced by one religion on another, their reactions, the non ending cycle of violence that led to all this. The famous saint Tirugnanasambandar was believed to have caused the death of thousands of jains. Godhra and Ayodhya occurred in the name of hinduism. The orisaa violence , the blame lies on both christians and hindus. The recent killer in Norway was a hardcore anti islamic person. This was a consequence of religious fanaticism.
If the atheists say please be free , throw away all barriers in mind, question everything, dont get held up by institutions, cults etc this is not brainwashing . This is call freeing the mind.
Has anyone seen god here, yet why do they accept him. Because they believe in him. Not because there is clear evidence. They strongly feel that he exists. It is feeling not concrete evidence. To some there are evidences of God, but none can publish any systematic process by which everybody can experience him. So is it not irrational? This irrationality means that emotions rule the logic. This means even if people feel guilty about it , if they get angry about religion , they will show violence because they are ruled by heart and not by mind.
Dont the theists feel this as onesided accusation on them? When will we all learn to be tolerant of each other's view!
My grandfather who was a strong believer never made fun of anybody for their modernity or their atheism. He was a personally orthodox man, who because he did not want his labourer to feel bad, sat together with him to eat food. Unthinkable in those days for an orthodox person from pre-independance India. It seems that an astrologer said that this man was destined for heaven.I dont know if it is true, but no-one not even an atheist could become uncomfortable in a discussion with him. Is this the situation here?
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