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R1a is common in India. Not only brahmins, it is also found in various tribes like Chenchus and castes as Pallars. That paper compares samples in east, west, north and central regions. The only sample from south is 'dravidian brahmins'. No other southie castes or tribes were compared against there. A big chunk of south india is R1a.
If the origins of R1a are conclusively Indian lineage then it may probably re-write any aryan invasion theory in future, since it cud mean that Indians as aryans went and colonized central asia, not the other way round. But all these things are open to debates in the present time.
If the origins of R1a are conclusively Indian lineage then it may probably re-write any aryan invasion theory in future, since it cud mean that Indians as aryans went and colonized central asia, not the other way round. But all these things are open to debates in the present time.
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s007bala
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H H
In other words what you are attributing is,Southie Indian Brahmins branched out to various parts of the world and populated R 1 A?Cool.I will be damned,if thats proved scientifically.Gosh,then Lord Krishna did reveal the truth,that all religions in the world today is out of existence from Sanathana Dharmas 12 schools.Gee Thumbs up!!
sb
In other words what you are attributing is,Southie Indian Brahmins branched out to various parts of the world and populated R 1 A?Cool.I will be damned,if thats proved scientifically.Gosh,then Lord Krishna did reveal the truth,that all religions in the world today is out of existence from Sanathana Dharmas 12 schools.Gee Thumbs up!!
sb
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s007bala
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Shri Aurobindo Thunders......
The hy-pothesis, invented to fill the gap,that these ideas were borrowed
by barbarous Aryan invaders from the civilised Dravidians,is a conjecture supported only by other conjectures.It is indeed coming to be doubted whether the whole story of an Aryan invasion through the Punjab is not a myth of th ephilologists.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3326083/veda-and-tamil-
sb
The hy-pothesis, invented to fill the gap,that these ideas were borrowed
by barbarous Aryan invaders from the civilised Dravidians,is a conjecture supported only by other conjectures.It is indeed coming to be doubted whether the whole story of an Aryan invasion through the Punjab is not a myth of th ephilologists.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3326083/veda-and-tamil-
sb
Bala,
Well, R1a is found anywhere...not just brahmins alone...so, the founding members of R1a "probably" went out into central asia...at that time they were agro-pastoral groups or mayb even hunters, no one knows for sure (though agro-pastoral is most accepted form)..but certainly the current caste system did not exist then...
Well, R1a is found anywhere...not just brahmins alone...so, the founding members of R1a "probably" went out into central asia...at that time they were agro-pastoral groups or mayb even hunters, no one knows for sure (though agro-pastoral is most accepted form)..but certainly the current caste system did not exist then...
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Acknowledging a fact does not demean another...
It is this pious and humble nature that has been exploited by invaders...
Yes, there could be direct descendents of christians or moslems... but 95% of the converted populace may have a hindu ancestry.
I do not belittle them... for the circumstances could have been such that it warranted the conversion? But the very same converts now vehemently strike back at us... openly and covertly... this attitude is totally unwarranted... maybe if they realize their roots and reality, we could co-exist...
We should acknowledge others - but with certain qualifications, as considered appropriate. If one were to generalize philosophically that we should acknowledge everybody without restrictions, then no country need national boundaries... in theory this may sound good, but it is impossible in practice...
It is this pious and humble nature that has been exploited by invaders...
Yes, there could be direct descendents of christians or moslems... but 95% of the converted populace may have a hindu ancestry.
I do not belittle them... for the circumstances could have been such that it warranted the conversion? But the very same converts now vehemently strike back at us... openly and covertly... this attitude is totally unwarranted... maybe if they realize their roots and reality, we could co-exist...
We should acknowledge others - but with certain qualifications, as considered appropriate. If one were to generalize philosophically that we should acknowledge everybody without restrictions, then no country need national boundaries... in theory this may sound good, but it is impossible in practice...
True most conversions back then were by force. A good many muslims being rabidly aggresive in promoting their religion in the past does not mean all muslims are like that now. How many of us are even thinking of religion generally when we interact with ppl on a daily basis..
Seshji,
There are all kinds of studies. Some studies are showing that southie-muslims are more similar to northie-brahmins than southie-brahmins. We dunno percentage reg above..
Seshji,
There are all kinds of studies. Some studies are showing that southie-muslims are more similar to northie-brahmins than southie-brahmins. We dunno percentage reg above..
Believe it or not, it is in the minds of the majority of religion-abiding people... may not be ostentious for materialistic reasons...
I was just generalizing... not all the torture and guile used for conversion is recorded... so, we cannot go by records on this...
I posted my two replies above in the wrong thread!!! They have to be read with the thread - Majority vs Minority...
sorry for the confusion...
sorry for the confusion...
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s007bala
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re
Err,i am confused abt what you are saying:bump2:
sb
I posted my two replies above in the wrong thread!!! They have to be read with the thread - Majority vs Minority...
sorry for the confusion...
Err,i am confused abt what you are saying:bump2:
sb
Apdi irukaradhu thaan neku nalladhu nu thonradhu... adhunaale idha apdiye vitudungo...:eyebrows::madgrin:
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s007bala
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Who is a Dravidian?
http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol87No2/175.pdf
et al. 2003). The most recent migrants
sb
http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol87No2/175.pdf
The phylogenetic analysis of the caste populations of
India showed that Dravidians show closer affinities among
themselves than with Indo–Aryans, irrespective of their position
in the social hierarchy. This is in concordance with
the earlier findings (Basu India showed that Dravidians show closer affinities among
themselves than with Indo–Aryans, irrespective of their position
in the social hierarchy. This is in concordance with
et al. 2003). The most recent migrants
among Dravidians of Tamil Nadu (upper class Iyer and
Iyengar) showed close affinity with Indo–Aryans (West Bengal
Brahmin, upper class; Mahisya, middle class; and Bagdi,
lower class) than the early migrants into Tamil Nadu.
These findings support the earlier evidence that the Dravidians were
possibly widespread throughout India before the arrival of
the Indo–Aryans and may have retreated to southern India to
avoid linguistic dominance, after an initial period of admixture
and adoption of the caste system (Basu et al. 2003). The
present study shows that these contemporary caste populations
of Tamil Nadu are confounded by assimilation of subsequent
immigrants in varying degrees of admixture before
the caste system became too rigid.Iyengar) showed close affinity with Indo–Aryans (West Bengal
Brahmin, upper class; Mahisya, middle class; and Bagdi,
lower class) than the early migrants into Tamil Nadu.
These findings support the earlier evidence that the Dravidians were
possibly widespread throughout India before the arrival of
the Indo–Aryans and may have retreated to southern India to
avoid linguistic dominance, after an initial period of admixture
and adoption of the caste system (Basu et al. 2003). The
present study shows that these contemporary caste populations
of Tamil Nadu are confounded by assimilation of subsequent
immigrants in varying degrees of admixture before
sb
Mahishya: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahishya
Bagdi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagdi_(caste)
Mahishya article has some Puranas mentioned in it. It is supposed by some quarters that the Indo-Scythians were absorbed into the existing hindu system as Kshatriyas (though in reality they appear to have been accepted as Shudras).
These so-called Kshatriyas then supposedly got the Puranas written to build (fake) ancestries to keep up with or link up with Vedic hinduism - so the puranas are supposedly not accurate it seems (it also explains ridiculous stories like a man jumping out of fire being anybody's ancestor or someone reviving dead bodies floating in a sea - all just stories to justify change or absorption into a given class / profession). However, one never knows.
Nice article on Iranian Scythians: http://www.azargoshnasp.net/history/Scythians/fouroldiranianethnicnames.pdf
Bagdi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagdi_(caste)
Mahishya article has some Puranas mentioned in it. It is supposed by some quarters that the Indo-Scythians were absorbed into the existing hindu system as Kshatriyas (though in reality they appear to have been accepted as Shudras).
These so-called Kshatriyas then supposedly got the Puranas written to build (fake) ancestries to keep up with or link up with Vedic hinduism - so the puranas are supposedly not accurate it seems (it also explains ridiculous stories like a man jumping out of fire being anybody's ancestor or someone reviving dead bodies floating in a sea - all just stories to justify change or absorption into a given class / profession). However, one never knows.
Nice article on Iranian Scythians: http://www.azargoshnasp.net/history/Scythians/fouroldiranianethnicnames.pdf
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s007bala
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Bg
When one reads the BG,its most famous verse,wherein Lord Krishna says,that he will reincarnate millenia after millenia or yuge yuge....its natural inference for me,that Abraham,Moses..etc especially Abraham is nothing but Brahmaa...similiarly somam is moses...armaic is sai ram....kannan is cannaan..like this jewish names have lots of similiar sounding words too....jesus was a jew and spreading the gospel amongst jewish people...but his message caught on like wildfire to other language speaking people...but arabs wanted their own cultural language speaking... proph.mohd...emerged from the hindu temple of kaaba in mecca ..and he did flee to medina....and come back to mecca..aka hejira..
lord krishna avataram is being differently called here that is all...when even amongst indians vaishnavas will not enter shiva temple at least majority of vaishnavas...similiarly abrahamic faith could hold their personal god conception to heart...its only the shaivaites at least majority of them are sama-darshis of accepting all gods...in my case,i see god in abrahamic faith too....but i love my personal concept of god as Siva...so on...
http://www.joshuaproject.net/peopctry.php?rop3=113874&rog3=IN
about the bagdis of india.thnx for the links,interesting.
sb
When one reads the BG,its most famous verse,wherein Lord Krishna says,that he will reincarnate millenia after millenia or yuge yuge....its natural inference for me,that Abraham,Moses..etc especially Abraham is nothing but Brahmaa...similiarly somam is moses...armaic is sai ram....kannan is cannaan..like this jewish names have lots of similiar sounding words too....jesus was a jew and spreading the gospel amongst jewish people...but his message caught on like wildfire to other language speaking people...but arabs wanted their own cultural language speaking... proph.mohd...emerged from the hindu temple of kaaba in mecca ..and he did flee to medina....and come back to mecca..aka hejira..
lord krishna avataram is being differently called here that is all...when even amongst indians vaishnavas will not enter shiva temple at least majority of vaishnavas...similiarly abrahamic faith could hold their personal god conception to heart...its only the shaivaites at least majority of them are sama-darshis of accepting all gods...in my case,i see god in abrahamic faith too....but i love my personal concept of god as Siva...so on...
http://www.joshuaproject.net/peopctry.php?rop3=113874&rog3=IN
about the bagdis of india.thnx for the links,interesting.
sb
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