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from Amangalis .. to priests - a welcome move (long overdue though)

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In keeping with its reformist agenda, the Kudroli Gokarnanatheshwara temple will allow two widows to work as priests on its premises. They will start performing their duties from October 6, the second day of the Mangalore Dasara celebrations at the temple.

Read more..in the link below. :)


Kudroli temple takes another progressive step

Although I hold conservative views in regard to certain facets of feminism, I feel there is no rationale to discriminate widows in any manner. But we should also know whether this "priest-trining" is an indirect way to keep these widows in a hermitage type of situation. If so, it is bad.
 
Although I hold conservative views in regard to certain facets of feminism, I feel there is no rationale to discriminate widows in any manner. But we should also know whether this "priest-trining" is an indirect way to keep these widows in a hermitage type of situation. If so, it is bad.

sangom

i agree that there is more than one way to view this. but a priest role, automatically, i think, confers a public view and 'respect'. this is indeed a far distance, from those days, when the widow, hair shorn, shunted to the back of the house, and fed with leftovers.

... today my widowed cousin participated fully in her children's wedding (bar the giving away of the bride); just a few years ago, an aunt, spend the whole weddding day of her son, in the back room, and after all the ceremonies, the son/dil went to pay respects to her.

any change is good change, as far as i am concerned. tired of seeing motta pattis, and surprisingly, there was a thread here in this forum, not too long ago, 'missing' those pattis..without ever knowing the implied cruelty behind those garments.
 
Utter lie, unjustified extrapolation; mush have repeated this hundred times in different contexts.

Manu says women must be respected. 80% of the widows amongst my relatives had a headful of hair, wore coloured sarees, ate with family members and not fed on left overs. Some even controlled finance, administration and managed properties. In a some cases, mother left her stavara-jangama properties to daughter and DIL, Talk of inhuman treatment is sheer nonsense.

i agree that there is more than one way to view this. but a priest role, automatically, i think, confers a public view and 'respect'. this is indeed a far distance, from those days, when the widow, hair shorn, shunted to the back of the house, and fed with leftovers.
 
Utter lie, unjustified extrapolation; mush have repeated this hundred times in different contexts.

Manu says women must be respected. 80% of the widows amongst my relatives had a headful of hair, wore coloured sarees, ate with family members and not fed on left overs. Some even controlled finance, administration and managed properties. In a some cases, mother left her stavara-jangama properties to daughter and DIL, Talk of inhuman treatment is sheer nonsense.

Lie??

I thought Kunjs post was the Truth the Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth!

In fact your reply to Kunjs sounded like a state of Denial>


I think all of us know that how a women esp a widow is viewed in Indian society..it is high time we Hindus admit our drawbacks and look for solutions.

All I can say that Hindus play the blame game most of the while in matters dealing with women..then at times conveniently give them a fake forefront as in Mata Pita Guru Deivam syndrome..then equate them with Goddesses just for namesake and then dominate them finally.

I think the modern Hindu women is aware of this games played in the past and present by Hindu society....the future might not permit bias games anymore.
 
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Dear Sarang Sir,

The unfortunate widows were treated in an inhuman way, long back. There was also the practice of pushing the widows into

the fire when her husband's body burns! Even in our mom's generation, some widows were treated like how K Sir has written.

Our neighbor was one such young 'madhvA' mAmi, whom we thought was in her 60-s but later on knew that she was only thirty!

Times are changing and widows are given due respect for the past few years. Now a days many don't change their appearance

but for the kumkum on the 'vaigidu' and wearing 'thirumAngalyam'. They wear diamond studs, nose rings, bangles and chains.

Some wear flowers. I am glad that the society is changing slowly!

As you have mentioned, some non bram widows were dealing with the properties even in my village, when I was young but

they were NOT allowed to sit in the front row during their family functions. (Some of their family members used to call them

'veLLach cheelakkAri'!) Even if they are requested to occupy the front row seat they used to refuse saying, 'yArAchchum

EdhAchchum solluvAnga!' :sad:
 
from Amangalis .. to priests - a welcome move

Shri Narayana Guru consecrated the Shivalinga that he had brought to Kudroli temple at Mangalore
and named it as "Kudroli Gokarnanatheshwara" in the year 1912.He built many Siva Temples
in Kerala and out side.The great reformer of Kerala Sri Narayana Guru who gave the clarion call:
'One in Kind, one in faith, one in God is man, Of one same womb,
one same form, difference none there is at all
,'

Shri Narayana Guru had declared. " I am not going to establish another religion". Instead he advised, "The World needs a unified culture which integrates the non-violence of Buddha, the love of Christ, the brotherhood of Nabi, the wisdom of Adi Sankara, and the spirituality of ancient Indian Gurus". The purpose behind the incarnation of Sree Narayana Guru was to generate this unified culture in this World. The Guru's philosophy is a doctrine of integration and elevation.
Shri Narayana Guru proved to his followers the meaninglessness of religious conversions.The Guru analyzed very clearly the meaning of conversion. If the conversion is desired because of genuine disbelief in the principles, the inner core of the religion, it is hypocrisy to continue in the same religion. The conversion will benefit both the individual and the religion which he is leaving. One religion will get rid of a non- believer and the other will add a believer. But if the conversion is because of the outer crust of the religion, namely customs and traditions, it is cowardice to run away. They should stick to the religion and change the unhealthy and unsocial customs.

I wish all should read the biography and words of this great reformer and Sage, which available in the net aplenty.
 

Dear Sarang Sir,

The unfortunate widows were treated in an inhuman way, long back. There was also the practice of pushing the widows into

the fire when her husband's body burns! Even in our mom's generation, some widows were treated like how K Sir has written.

Our neighbor was one such young 'madhvA' mAmi, whom we thought was in her 60-s but later on knew that she was only thirty!

Times are changing and widows are given due respect for the past few years. Now a days many don't change their appearance

but for the kumkum on the 'vaigidu' and wearing 'thirumAngalyam'. They wear diamond studs, nose rings, bangles and chains.

Some wear flowers. I am glad that the society is changing slowly!

As you have mentioned, some non bram widows were dealing with the properties even in my village, when I was young but

they were NOT allowed to sit in the front row during their family functions. (Some of their family members used to call them

'veLLach cheelakkAri'!) Even if they are requested to occupy the front row seat they used to refuse saying, 'yArAchchum

EdhAchchum solluvAnga!' :sad:



Mam,

I agree.

Past is past.

Atleast now, things are changing slowly which is indisputably a good sign IMHO.

Let us welcome such changes wholeheartedly.



With regards



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Isvarah Sarvabhutanam hriddese tishthati"
 
Now-a-days a widow is not treated as before. Even the widow doesn't allow hereself to be treated as earlier. My cousin's daughter-in-law after her husband's unfortunate death in prime youth, she was allowed get remarried. She is happy now.
The present world especially tamil brahmins have changed a lot. They do not allow their misfourtune daughter or daughter-in-law who have lost their husband due to many reasons, make their living happier. Allowing to do pooja in temple is only to keep them engaged but not happier for ever.
 
from Amangalis .. to priests - a welcome move


Dear Sarang Sir,

The unfortunate widows were treated in an inhuman way, long back. There was also the practice of pushing the widows into

the fire when her husband's body burns! Even in our mom's generation, some widows were treated like how K Sir has written.

Our neighbor was one such young 'madhvA' mAmi, whom we thought was in her 60-s but later on knew that she was only thirty!
Times are changing and widows are given due respect for the past few years. Now a days many don't change their appearance
but for the kumkum on the 'vaigidu' and wearing 'thirumAngalyam'. They wear diamond studs, nose rings, bangles and chains.
Some wear flowers. I am glad that the society is changing slowly!
As you have mentioned, some non bram widows were dealing with the properties even in my village, when I was young but they were NOT allowed to sit in the front row during their family functions. (Some of their family members used to call them
'veLLach cheelakkAri'!) Even if they are requested to occupy the front row seat they used to refuse saying, 'yArAchchum

EdhAchchum solluvAnga!' :sad:

Madam,

These reforms did not occur over night, it took centuries of hard work by these great men and women against all odds .Many reformers like Swami Dhayananda Saraswathi of Arya Samaj, Ram Mohan Roy,Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar, Maharishi Karve,Mahatma Jyothi Rao Phule, Savithribai Phule,Annie Besant, Pandita Ramabai, Sister Subbalakshmi and others. I can name many more such great souls who spent their entire life for the abolition of abominable practices against women.

Now we are living in a different century. There has been a great emancipation among the Brahmin women during this century. We have not seen any of the things mentioned by you happening today in the name of widowhood.
In my opinion Education and Economic independence among women have brought this change faster.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
Madam,

These reforms did not occur over night, it took centuries of hard work by these great men and women against all odds .Many reformers like Swami Dhayananda Saraswathi of Arya Samaj, Ram Mohan Roy,Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar, Maharishi Karve,Mahatma Jyothi Rao Phule, Savithribai Phule,Annie Besant, Pandita Ramabai, Sister Subbalakshmi and others. I can name many more such great souls who spent their entire life for the abolition of abominable practices against women.

Now we are living in a different century. There has been a great emancipation among the Brahmin women during this century. We have not seen any of the things mentioned by you happening today in the name of widowhood.
In my opinion Education and Economic independence among women have brought this change faster.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.


Sir,


:clap2:




With regards
 
That Tambrahms have discarded these outdated customs relating to widowhood is a giant step forward....As far as OP is concerned let us first give equal opportunity to sumangalis in priestly activities before giving it to a widow which looks some what retrograde...Does it mean that widows are more suitable for Godly activities...Are we not not demeaning them further by this step as doubted by Shri Sangom
 
That Tambrahms have discarded these outdated customs relating to widowhood is a giant step forward....As far as OP is concerned let us first give equal opportunity to sumangalis in priestly activities before giving it to a widow which looks some what retrograde...Does it mean that widows are more suitable for Godly activities...Are we not not demeaning them further by this step as doubted by Shri Sangom
Women who have a family life will have endless chores to do and may not be fit for the priest job!

I guess the two selected widows might not have anyone to take care of them! :tsk:
 
Shri Narayana Guru consecrated the Shivalinga that he had brought to Kudroli temple at Mangalore
and named it as "Kudroli Gokarnanatheshwara" in the year 1912.He built many Siva Temples
in Kerala and out side.The great reformer of Kerala Sri Narayana Guru who gave the clarion call:
'One in Kind, one in faith, one in God is man, Of one same womb,
one same form, difference none there is at all
,'

Shri Narayana Guru had declared. " I am not going to establish another religion". Instead he advised, "The World needs a unified culture which integrates the non-violence of Buddha, the love of Christ, the brotherhood of Nabi, the wisdom of Adi Sankara, and the spirituality of ancient Indian Gurus". The purpose behind the incarnation of Sree Narayana Guru was to generate this unified culture in this World. The Guru's philosophy is a doctrine of integration and elevation.
Shri Narayana Guru proved to his followers the meaninglessness of religious conversions.The Guru analyzed very clearly the meaning of conversion. If the conversion is desired because of genuine disbelief in the principles, the inner core of the religion, it is hypocrisy to continue in the same religion. The conversion will benefit both the individual and the religion which he is leaving. One religion will get rid of a non- believer and the other will add a believer. But if the conversion is because of the outer crust of the religion, namely customs and traditions, it is cowardice to run away. They should stick to the religion and change the unhealthy and unsocial customs.

I wish all should read the biography and words of this great reformer and Sage, which available in the net aplenty.

dear brahmanyan,

i think, the south, having been spared the intrusive military/social influence of islam, atleast on a major scale, retreated further into static and retro practices, as a way to preserve and protect, what the brahmins of those times, thought to be right. i dont think anyone gave thought to the free thinking kunti or sakuntala of yore.

malayala nadu was fortunate in having narayana guru. here too, like tamil nadu, the caste strictures and restrictions, were rough and hard, on the downtrodden castes. the guru preached a peaceful way to reformation, and this reflects almost a hundred years later, in a kerala, bereft to a large extent, of the deep seated caste based hostilities. even more so to the upper caste namboodris or naiars, who in their heyday, behaved no better than what the tamil brahmins preached/practised in the tamil country.

ofcourse tamil nadu took a different route, and as a result, today, we tambrams have been completely disenfranchised from the socio political educational governmental and to a large extent (barring carnatic music) from the art world of tamil nadu. things would have been different, had we, a narayana guru too. i think.

andhra and karnataka, still have to deal with social reformation, to the extent of kerala and tamil nadu. hopefully, it would be of the narayana guru kind. :)
 
from Amangalis .. to priests - a welcome move.

Dear Sri Kunjuppu,

In the northern part of the Country, continuous onslaught of foreign Races have affected the culture of Hindu Society in a big scale. This subject has been dealt by many scholars.

How ever, I would attribute three important factors for the changes in Brahmins' social outlook in South.
First and foremost is acceptance of changes by Brahmin Community according to reality.Second is migration of Brahmins from villages and the exposure to western education. Third is the economic independence of Brahmin
women.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
Dear Sri Kunjuppu,

In the northern part of the Country, continuous onslaught of foreign Races have affected the culture of Hindu Society in a big scale. This subject has been dealt by many scholars.

How ever, I would attribute three important factors for the changes in Brahmins' social outlook in South.
First and foremost is acceptance of changes by Brahmin Community according to reality.Second is migration of Brahmins from villages and the exposure to western education. Third is the economic independence of Brahmin
women.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

dear brahmanyan,

i will agree with you 100%. also i would like to append a few more reasons, as i think, it is no ONE reason, that causes such a wholesale attitude change at the grass roots level of a community..

- 100% literacy of men and along with it an exposure to western thought and civilization; no one can deny its influence on us, albeit in different levels and shades. the white woman had to fight hard for the vote; our ladies got it in a platter at the dawn of free india - probably the first ever opportunity for most of them at that time to exercise a right on to itself, without supervision of the manhusbandfatherbrotheruncle.

- it is my own suspicion that our women voted for the reformers while our menfolks, even here to this day, are feeling the sting of the slapss received about 50+ years ago. p.a.krishnan, has observed this in an essay in அக்ரஹாரத்தில் பெரியார், in a tangential manner, at the sight of the whole nanguneri agraharam shutting down at the urge of the women who closed the kitchen, to witness a reform meeting at the road end, which they all congregated and watched from nearby thinnais. my mom, incidentally, would never disclose whom she voted for, inspite of my dad's repeated efforts :), one of those rare occassions when she would not comply to his wishes.

- the increasing sense of fairness among our menfolk. especially in an urban environment where facilities for the girls were as easily available as the boys'. even the poorest brahmin families of the side streets of kapali koil, used to send their daughters, along with their sons, to the shorthand typing institutes. from there it was a straight path to a government job (the same route was followed in palghat, except there, the route lay in a one way ticket to bombay matunga). so through need they discovered the earning power of the girls to supplement family expenses, and also sowed the seed of the girls saving up for their own wedding (mrs K followed this route and was fortunate to get into corporate high level secretary position which stood her in good sense through the pre marriage years)

- the concept of having small families overruled the need to have sons. my fil had 4 daughters till the much wanted son arrived, and then they stopped having babies. my sibling had only 2 daughters, and i am sure, between hubby wife there was this agreement to limit to two. if both were daughters, it was a natural development to treat them gender neutral re opportunities education expenses etc. the only double whammy here, is that the parents ended up spending what in previous era re marriage plus all the costs associated with hostel bound college education.

truly, i revel in this modern era, for i think, this is the era that bharathi dreamed of a புதுமை பெண். :). i do not wring my hands at hearing the occassional 'misdemeanours' of some of our girls, but these are no better/worse than what our sons have been enjoying for centuries (t.janakiraman describes some of these antics very well in மோக முள்).

truly a golden era for all women folks of india law wise and opportunity wise. all thanks to ambedkar and nehru, and for this alone, i feel indebted to them.

thank you and best wishes sir.
 
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I still think you are generalising from isolated incidents, as the media is now doing with khap panchayats. Pushing widows into fire is a big stretch of imagination. Some wives of rajaraja chola ascended his funeral pyre, some did not. Dasaratha's wives did not; matri did but kunti did not. My boss's mother, a bengali, gave up all luxuries - dress, ornaments, food and started leading a simple life, despite pressure from sons to live as before. Imagine a bengali give up fish overnight. There was a code of life applicable to not only brahmins, but for all communities. Some followed the codes strictly with willingness, some to different degrees depending on the family, immediate society pressure and their own inclination. May be they did not occupy front seats in family functions, but many were active back stage and contributed a lot in the execution of those functions (e.g. marriage).

I do not think sati was ever practiced by brahmins anywhere in india. Mass life sacrifice during wars is a special case.

Just because I was caned and made to stand on the bench for hours during my school days, I should not call my teacher as inhuman who deserves a sack. It was a common and accepted practice during that period. We all accepted the punishment and moved on. At least there was no suicide or running away from home, which happens now. I am sure some will shout I am comparing a widow to a school boy. The example is just to show how we view behaviour and happenings.

What is amazing is the haste to say me culpa and eager to blame the earlier generations for everything. Instead of quoting what others say, it will be an eye opener if everyone tries to recollect how the widows were treated in their families and near relatives. And what they felt and how they adapted to the conditions. It will be a mixed bag of experiences.



Dear Sarang Sir,

The unfortunate widows were treated in an inhuman way, long back. There was also the practice of pushing the widows into

the fire when her husband's body burns! Even in our mom's generation, some widows were treated like how K Sir has written.

Our neighbor was one such young 'madhvA' mAmi, whom we thought was in her 60-s but later on knew that she was only thirty!

Times are changing and widows are given due respect for the past few years. Now a days many don't change their appearance

but for the kumkum on the 'vaigidu' and wearing 'thirumAngalyam'. They wear diamond studs, nose rings, bangles and chains.

Some wear flowers. I am glad that the society is changing slowly!

As you have mentioned, some non bram widows were dealing with the properties even in my village, when I was young but

they were NOT allowed to sit in the front row during their family functions. (Some of their family members used to call them

'veLLach cheelakkAri'!) Even if they are requested to occupy the front row seat they used to refuse saying, 'yArAchchum

EdhAchchum solluvAnga!' :sad:
 
I know a family with 5 girls and the eldest among them who had a good Bank job sacrificed her own marriage for her sisters...Educated all the sisters and got them educated and married them off

There are many such instances...Education has been the biggest emancipator for our women folk

We should not forget their sacrifices

Now, with smaller families such sacrifices may not be required

But in case of a need, I am sure our women folk will raise to the occasion to support the family

No doubt the villain for IC & IR in modern times has been blamed on our women folk

Here too the community elders understand that it cannot be arrested without our women folk support

I am sure with better awareness and a reality check this will be contained in the long run(?)

Let us continue to respect our women who are the bulwark for our tradition and culture!
 
if any thing the widows should command more respect, and honour, its not easy job, living a life of lonliness in some cases for decades, for managing their affairs independently, I never understood, as to why they were cast aside in society, My sheer respects to them all
 
Vrindavan widows back in City of Joy

Some good news. For once the reporter has not squarely blamed hindu dharma for the sorry plight of the widows, who left their homes and moved to vridavan.

Heads turned at Terminal 3 in Delhi’s Indira Gandhi International Airport as a group of 50-odd elderly women entered the lobby to board a flight to Kolkata.

Even as personnel and passengers wondered who these women — most of them dressed in crisp white cotton sarees, wearing garlands and carrying a flower bouquet — were, a policewoman at security check enquired in Hindi, “Where have you come from? Where are you going?” Getting an unintelligible response in rustic Bangla, she had to make do with looking at the passenger’s boarding card (ration card for these passengers). These were Vrindavan widows flying back to Kolkata for the first time since they left home.
These aged widows, who were abandoned by their family or had fled their inhospitable homes back when the city was known as Calcutta, were going back to celebrate Durga Puja in their hometown. They were accompanied by this reporter from The Hindu.
Courtesy NGO Sulabh International, the women have been invited by several puja samitis to inaugurate puja pandals in their home State. The sojourn is aimed at helping the women break free of the stigma attached to widowhood — in rural West Bengal, widows are kept away from auspicious ceremonies. In the light of The Hindu’s report on their plight in Mathura’s shelter homes, the Supreme Court had asked SI to look after the welfare of the widows.
“I have been living at Vrindavan for the past 16 years after my three sons found it difficult to fend for me in our house at Medinipur. They are daily-wagers and have children to look after, so I decided to take shelter at Vrindavan,” says Bijoli Devi, reluctant to share the real circumstances that forced her to leave her house after she was widowed. She does add, however, that she doesn’t wish to visit her family this time. “You know, I have a sister-in-law in Kolkata but they are so rich that I am scared to enter her house. I visited her house 10 years ago but never after that.”
Ashokasundari has been in Vrindavan for six years but hesitates to share her story. “One day, several old women in the village decided to go to Vrindavan, so I tagged along and never looked back,” is all she lets on. Each one of them has a different story to tell, but on Sunday there was a common expression on their faces — of joy and happiness — and an excitement that they found difficult to suppress. “Bahut maza aaya [We enjoyed a lot],” they said when asked about their experience on board. The flight arrived in Kolkata in no time and though the security procedures left them baffled, they conducted themselves with discipline. At the airport, they were welcomed to drumbeats and showered with flowers, bringing traffic to a virtual standstill. As they entered the ‘City of Joy’, they danced with gay abandon and posed readily for the media.

Vrindavan widows back in City of Joy - The Hindu
 
The temple has announced this information too, but left out in many reports.

"Poojary said the hall on the temple premises will be given free of cost for widow re-marriages."
 
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