Excellent explanation to the divine name Ra Ma

[sangom]

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It seems from the reply of a member, the avatars of Rama and Parasurama happened at the same time.

Further, when Parasurama avatar was partial, and the powers of Parasurama were transferred to Rama, then the total avatars of Vishnu would not be 10 and it is only 9 or between 9 and 10. How can you treat an avatar as complete when the role of an avatar was not full?

The Parasurama concept is not clear.

Since all these are fabricated stories, there was no need for any logical consistency. I am not sure whether Rama and Parasurama were born at, or near about the same time, but, in Valmiki's ramayana, Parashurama has an encounter with Rama when the latter returns to ayodhya after marriage to Sita. In that encounter Parashurama is made to be defeated by Rama. Thus, one avatar gets defeated by the next avatar!

If, therefore, Parashurama is reckoned as a half-avatar (nobody will take objection to this except the Bhumihar Brahmins, the Chitapavan brahmins, the Anavil Brahmins (Morarji Desai was one), Nambudiris and a few other castes, who hold Parashurama as their moolapurusha.), the same will apply to Balarama and so the total number of avatar strength will add up to 9, though the number of avatars will be ten only, something like the total marks scored by a student and the number of questions he attempted!

The half-avatars are not worshipped except in some remote corners.

 

[Srimadhan]

With regard to the RAMA nama, to me, what is important is

"In what quality you are and in what quality you recite are important when you recite the name is important".

 

[vs_ramki1950]

once raavana visited the ashoka vanam , after capturing maa sita and heard rama naama. he thought sita was chanting,instead, to his surprise thrisadai-daughter of vibishana- was chanting the raama naama. he got wild and asked his soldiers to arrest her and produce her at the raavana sabha. when inquired she told that she was chanting raavana naama. how? ra..the first letter of ravana. and ma .the first letter of mandothari!!

do i hv to say that raavana was very happy!!!

 

[jaijai]

Great PJ
Well depicted

 

[P.J.]

Thanks jaijai Sir

 

[renuka]

once raavana visited the ashoka vanam , after capturing maa sita and heard rama naama. he thought sita was chanting,instead, to his surprise thrisadai-daughter of vibishana- was chanting the raama naama. he got wild and asked his soldiers to arrest her and produce her at the raavana sabha. when inquired she told that she was chanting raavana naama. how? ra..the first letter of ravana. and ma .the first letter of mandothari!!

do i hv to say that raavana was very happy!!!

So that means the chanting of Rama Nama had no effect on the daughter of Vibishana cos she was clearing lying!LOL

She was surely chanting Rama meaning Lord Rama and not Ra from Ravana and Ma from Mandodari.
Her dad Vibishana had betrayed his own Bro Ravana and switched camps so it was 100% clear she was reciting Rama Nama only.

She must have feared for her life and lied to Ravan..but anyway why was she scared?

Either way she would have heard Rama Nama. If Ravan had killed her she would have still heard Rama Nama...Raam Naam Sathya Hai.... Raam Naam Sathya Hai.

 

[renuka]

What a crooked way of thinking!!

i know...it's a rare gift!

 

[JR]

Her dad Vibishana had betrayed his own Bro Ravana and switched camps so it was 100% clear she was reciting Rama Nama only.

Dear Renuka,

Vibhishana saranagathi is a big deal for us Vaishnavas. We all welcome the prince doing so -- to have sided with the good. Unlike Karna, Vibheeshana was a crown prince himself and he did not have any 'obligation' to his brother - afterall, we see many princes fighting their own brothers for Kingdom, Sugreeva being one of them. Besides, Vibheeshana did his duty - he wise-counselled his brother Ravana as much as he could and only after Ravana's decided infatuation with another man's wife that wouldn't change any bit, did prince Vibheeshana decide to quit his brother. There is nothing wrong in this. He did not 'betray' his brother.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Vibhishana saranagathi is a big deal for us Vaishnavas. We all welcome the prince doing so -- to have sided with the good. Unlike Karna, Vibheeshana was a crown prince himself and he did not have any 'obligation' to his brother - afterall, we see many princes fighting their own brothers for Kingdom, Sugreeva being one of them. Besides, Vibheeshana did his duty - he wise-counselled his brother Ravana as much as he could and only after Ravana's decided infatuation with another man's wife that wouldn't change any bit, did prince Vibheeshana decide to quit his brother. There is nothing wrong in this. He did not 'betray' his brother.

Dear JR,

I feel discussions will be easier if the Vaishnava or Shaivaism or any other Ism's preference in not brought is as often.
Becos if anything is said and analysed it is often mistaken as "offensive" to a Vaishnava or Shaivite or to the followers of any other Ism.

I feel in a discussion it is always better to remain neutrally mature so that no one feels undue attachment to a character in the Mahabharat or Ramayan and feel that Vaishnavaism/Shaivaism/any other Ism is under scrutiny or 'attack"...only then a proper discussion can ensure without conditioned pre-conceived notions.



For me I rather look at the Ramayan or Mahabharat as a story with pros and cons and not take sides.

When I read any story I match it with my thinking..that is if I were in Vibhishana's shoes and I did not like what my bro was doing I would have told him to change his ways..if he still did not change his ways ..I will NOT switch camps cos we can never trust a new comer! How do I know a new comer's intentions? Why destabilize the Kingdom and take such a risk? After all a King is supposed to have the interest of his own Kingdom first.

It is not blood thicker than water here but its strategy.

If Vibhishana felt that Ravan was not righteous enough he could have started a coup on his own and imprisoned Ravan without the need to be obligated to Rama.

How does surrender to Rama here fit in the picture?

As Vibhashana I would just send back Seeta to Rama and if Seeta kicked a big fuss that she wanted Rama only to come safe her....I would have sedated her and sent her back to Rama so that she wont know how she reached back to Rama.

Then any fire ordeal between Rama and Sita is purely their business but I would surely send spies to see what happens.

If Rama accepts Sita it will be the best but if Rama rejects Sita then I can offer her protection and may be try to convince her to marry my bro Ravan becos it is not Adharma anymore to offer protection and a marriage option to a woman who has been rejected by her husband.

If Sita agrees to marry Ravan...than well and good and everyone can be one big happy family and I do not even need to over throw Ravan and I can release him from prison and hand him back his Kingdom.

It saves lives and cost effective...no need for blood shed too.

 

[Vaagmi]

So that means the chanting of Rama Nama had no effect on the daughter of Vibishana cos she was clearing lying!LOL

She was surely chanting Rama meaning Lord Rama and not Ra from Ravana and Ma from Mandodari.
Her dad Vibishana had betrayed his own Bro Ravana and switched camps so it was 100% clear she was reciting Rama Nama only.

She must have feared for her life and lied to Ravan..but anyway why was she scared?

Either way she would have heard Rama Nama. If Ravan had killed her she would have still heard Rama Nama...Raam Naam Sathya Hai.... Raam Naam Sathya Hai.

The gem I picked up from here is -- Dead bodies do hear it when people carrying it chant Raam Naam Sathya Hai. As it comes from a Medical Doctor this gem is really very very "weighty". LOL.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear JR,

I feel discussions will be easier if the Vaishnava or Shaivaism or any other Ism's preference in not brought is as often.
Becos if anything is said and analysed it is often mistaken as "offensive" to a Vaishnava or Shaivite or to the followers of any other Ism.

I feel in a discussion it is always better to remain neutrally mature so that no one feels undue attachment to a character in the Mahabharat or Ramayan and feel that Vaishnavaism/Shaivaism/any other Ism is under scrutiny or 'attack"...only then a proper discussion can ensure without conditioned pre-conceived notions.



For me I rather look at the Ramayan or Mahabharat as a story with pros and cons and not take sides.

When I read any story I match it with my thinking..that is if I were in Vibhishana's shoes and I did not like what my bro was doing I would have told him to change his ways..if he still did not change his ways ..I will NOT switch camps cos we can never trust a new comer! How do I know a new comer's intentions? Why destabilize the Kingdom and take such a risk? After all a King is supposed to have the interest of his own Kingdom first.

It is not blood thicker than water here but its strategy.

If Vibhishana felt that Ravan was not righteous enough he could have started a coup on his own and imprisoned Ravan without the need to be obligated to Rama.

How does surrender to Rama here fit in the picture?

As Vibhashana I would just send back Seeta to Rama and if Seeta kicked a big fuss that she wanted Rama only to come safe her....I would have sedated her and sent her back to Rama so that she wont know how she reached back to Rama.

Then any fire ordeal between Rama and Sita is purely their business but I would surely send spies to see what happens.

If Rama accepts Sita it will be the best but if Rama rejects Sita then I can offer her protection and may be try to convince her to marry my bro Ravan becos it is not Adharma anymore to offer protection and a marriage option to a woman who has been rejected by her husband.

If Sita agrees to marry Ravan...than well and good and everyone can be one big happy family and I do not even need to over throw Ravan and I can release him from prison and hand him back his Kingdom.

It saves lives and cost effective...no need for blood shed too.

Renukaji,

Okay. Let us look at the story part of Ramayana alone as a neutral narration.

You are looking for a wrong value at the most improbable place.

For a kshatriya, somehow getting to the throne/gaddi is a major value or dharma. Usually it is sublimated by claiming that he does it for the better management of the kingdom and for the better welfare of the subjects. The real motive force is greed and thirst for power. Vibhishan is no exception to this. Vibhishan had the additional reason that Ravan was really evil as he coveted Sita. But Vibhishan was not powerful enough to take on Ravan singly. He was not as strong as Vaali who hung Ravan by a thread above his son angadh's swing as a ten headed beatle doll. So he waited for an opportunity and when that opportunity presented itself he did not want to miss it. To cement the unwritten agreement he surrendered to Rama. Rama accepted him to weaken Ravana. Rama was again a kshatriya.

The moghul prince Aurangzeb had to stab at the back all his elder brothers-there were three of them- who were eligible to inherit the throne after emperor Shahjehan. He conspired to put a few behind the bars also. He even sent his dad to confinement when he did not croak and clear up the throne. That is mughal kshatriya dharma. LOL.

These are not good or bad. Just palace intrigues. LOL.

Perhaps you are trying to apply the 21st century middle class morals of not deserting or cheating a bro to the ancient times and so have got into this drishtikone. Go to ravan's time and look at it. Only don't tell him that you are there to take a close look at all that. LOL.

 

[P.J.]

If Sita agrees to marry Ravan...than well and good and everyone can be one big happy family and I do not even need to over throw Ravan and I can release him from prison and hand him back his Kingdom.

It saves lives and cost effective...no need for blood shed too.

Anyone with right mind would never think like this!!

 

[renuka]

Anyone with right mind would never think like this!!

There are very few minds like mine..so I can understand your problem of not being able to digest that fact.

Dont get emotional yaar...I am discussing Ramayan from a technical point of view without taking sides.

BTW I do not see anything wrong in re-marriage.




Just to add....what type of mind labels others as:

1)Crooked mind

2)Not right mind

3)Mentally sick mind.


PJ sir..I did not know you have become a psychologist and calling others all sorts of names.


So what is your type of mind?

Monkey mind! ha ha ha

 

[renuka]

Vibhishan is no exception to this. Vibhishan had the additional reason that Ravan was really evil as he coveted Sita. But Vibhishan was not powerful enough to take on Ravan singly.

Perhaps you are trying to apply the 21st century middle class morals of not deserting or cheating a bro to the ancient times and so have got into this drishtikone. Go to ravan's time and look at it. Only don't tell him that you are there to take a close look at all that. LOL.

You know a friend of mine also told me that its almost impossible for Vibhishan to over throw Ravan...but you see my imagination runs wild like Mega Serial...so may be I can think of writing some serial on how Vibhishan could over throw Ravan.

After all the great Dasharatha ....the one who has 10 chariots still came to his knees and lost out to the demands of his wife Kaikeyi and died out of depression.

So dont worry..we can always make Ravan have a weak point where Vibhishan would use it to his maximum benefit.

BTW what has 21st century middle class morals of not deserting bro..why?? what about other classes?? Do they betray their siblings or what? I have never betrayed any sibling ...so that disproves your middle class alone as having values!LOL

 

[renuka]

The gem I picked up from here is -- Dead bodies do hear it when people carrying it chant Raam Naam Sathya Hai. As it comes from a Medical Doctor this gem is really very very "weighty". LOL.

The mind does not die upon death..it still sees and hears and experiences in the astral body.

 

[P.J.]

Vibishan was a prince called satyavrat in his previous birth. He was called so as he always talked truth and walked in path of dharma. Vibhishana's sister Surpanaka was his gurus daughter in his previous birth and her name in previous birth is not known. She fell in love with Satyavrat. Satyavrat treated her like a sister and hence rejected her love. She felt insulted and became angry and vowed to revenge. She lodged a complaint in kings darbar saying that Satyavrat had a sexual union with her by promising her to marry and now refusing to marry her.

Nobody believed the innocence of the prince Satyavrat and thought that he lied. As because Satyavrat is not agreeing to marry gurus daughter, he was sentenced to death the day after.

Sitting in prison, satyavrat cried to heaven saying that there is no justice and dharma in the world. If there was any dharma in the world, he would not be sentenced to death and dharma could have proved victorious.

Then Lord Anand appeared before him and told him that because of his deeds in previous births, he will die now but in the next life he will be born in rakshasha race and his gurus daughter will take birth as his sister. This will happen so as he said to the king's darbar that he treated his guru's daughter as his sister.

That is why Satyavrat was born in rakshasha clan as Vibishan along with surpanaka as his sister. Vibhishana, like in this previous birth always walked in the path of dharma and started seeing Lord narayan's avatar in Sri Ram. Vibhishanas was ultimately blessed immortality by Lord Narayana. Surpanaka was punished by Lord Anand for her bad deeds.

Though a half-demon himself, Vibhishana was of a noble character and advised Ravana, who kidnapped and abducted Sita, to return her to her husband Rama orderly. When his brother did not listen to his advice, Vibhishana joined Rama's army. Later, and when Rama defeated Ravana, Vibhishana was crowned as the king of Lanka.

The Soul transmigrates from one birth to another with all its virtues of good and bad in nature that one has acquired during several lives in the past. It appears that Satyavrat truly treated his guru's daughter as his sister through thoughts and actions and hence she became his sister in his next life as Vibhishan. Satyavrat as Vibhishana also got the company of Lord Sriram as a result of his speaking truth always and following the right path of Dharma in the same way as Lord Srirama. Intensity of our thoughts and actions in the present life are likely to determine the location of our next life for improving and perfecting the same virtues.

Hence due to his nature accumulated not only in this birth, but also due to his Satwick character in his previous birth, he sided with Sri Ram, who is embodiment of Truth.

REBIRTH STORIES FROM EPIC VALMIKI RAMAYANA

 

[praveen]

What a crooked way of thinking!!

PJ Sir,
If you cannot be civil in your posts, please refrain from posting. I have already sent you 2 (or maybe 3) notes reg this. And if you continue to do so, i am afraid i might have to temporarily suspend your account.

 

[P.J.]

Members posting their replies should also understand that insulting, degrading Hindu Gods in any manner, is affecting the sentiments of not only the Thread Opener, but also so many non members who read them, and hope Moderators and Administrators of this Forum to take appropriate action to delete part / or whole of such Posts.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

I agree with Smt. Renuka, even before Sri Ramachandra, tharaka mantra Rama is more famous. Even before Sri Ramachandra

Because of the popularity of Dasaradha Rama, the name RAMA would have been familiar with people, whether he was an avatar of Vishnu or not. Otherwise, because of the mass appeal, he would have been linked with Vishnu.

Even though he is considered to be incarnation of Sri Maha Vishnu he led his life by following dharma to the core, he never told lies, he never disobeyed his father, mother or his gurur's words. Also he also did the rajya properly by following raja dharma to the core. He respected everyone, he followed yoga abhyasa and proved that all human beings can become a yogi and realise the self by following dharma to the core. May be that is the reason why Sri Ramachandra parabrahma name is associated with tharaka mantra.

The above remark made it to appear that since he was an avatar of Vishnu, he should not have the above credentials. I think it gives a different meaning.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Saint Thyagaraja gives a special meaning for the name 'Rama'.

It is the combination of the soul of Siva mantra (ma) and the soul of Vishnu mantra (rA).


The gist of his song 'evarani nirNayinchirirA' is:

'O Munificent Lord, praised by this tyAgarAja!

What did the most eminent people determine as to who You are, and how did they worship You?

– whether Lord Siva or Lord VishNu or BrahmA or the Supreme Lord?

For the Siva mantra (OM namaSSivAya), ‘ma’ is the soul;

for the VishNu mantra (OM namO nArAyanAya), ‘rA’ is the soul;

I salute the great personages who understand this detail.

Source: Thyagaraja Vaibhavam

Though Thiagaraja was one of the popular carnatic music Vagyakaras, he had troubled personal life. His blind faith to Rama was not liked by his father and brother and subsequently by his wife. He was driven out of house couple of times. His final days were not properly documented. He belonged to 17th or 18th century. His Telugu background had elevated him to this level.

As mentioned in one of my earlier blogs, even if you remove 'ma', still you have Siva; whereas without 'ra' it results in a peculiar word - say 'yanaya'; does it have any meaning?

My humble request is please restrict Thiagaraja only to Rama. Though he was a Smartha, he was not a staunch Shiva devotee, it seems; probably not well groomed by his parents.