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DMK - The destroyers of our heritage

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ASI refuses NOC for Poompuhar harbour Accuses DMK Government Of Arm-twisting
T S Sreenivasa Raghavan | TNN

Chennai: Even as the Ram Setu row continues to simmer, the DMK government is headed for another controversy, this one set in the backdrop of the historic Poompuhar town in Nagapattinam district.

The Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) and state archaeology department have accused the government of armtwisting them into giving a 'no objection' certificate' (NOC) for a Union government-funded Rs 40-crore fishing harbour at Poompuhar that could destroy the ruins of the ancient Chola port city, lying at a depth of eight metres under the sea.

Archaeologists have refused to issue NOC for the proposed project since "the site chosen has several on and offshore archaeological structures."

The firm stand taken by the ASI/state archaeology officials could be attributed to the underwater images captured by National Institute of Ocean Technology (NIOT) when it carried out a site scan immediately after the tsunami and reconnaissance survey in 2006. These exclusive images and video film are available with The Times of India.

Interestingly, fisheries commissioner Shambu Kallolikar in his March 19 letter to the state archaeology principal commissioner S Gurumurthy claimed monuments identified by NIOT were buried at a distance of four to five km from the shoreline and at a depth of more than 50 feet.

"They're old. He's not aware about recent surveys. The structures are less than half-a-kilometer and they lie at a depth of seven to 11 meters. The fisheries commissioner' s claim is based on villagers' opinion, not scientific data," archaeological sources said.

Shambu in his letter played to popular sentiments to justify the harbour site saying "it would protect the Poompuhar village from sea erosion."

But, what upset ASI/state archaeology officials was the blunt comment by a top official of the fisheries department during a meeting in March. "He said it was more important to ensure livelihood to the living rather than protecting submerged temples and vihars constructed by dead people. We're shocked," sources said.

Former director of the state archaeology department Natana Kasinathan, who attended the meeting, said: "I made it clear. If the site had some archaeological structures, then the harbour has to be shelved."

His opinion assumes significance since the five underwater surveys undertaken during his tenure between 1991 and 1997 had unearthed a shipwreck, lead ingots and six man-made structures at Poompuhar.

"No construction can happen in 200 to 300 meters of monuments of archaeological importance. It's not possible to construct the harbour since several archaeological structures are strewn around the site," sources said, adding the structures discovered by NIOT needed further studies. "They're huge in size. They're also covered with bio-fouling. Only when you remove the fouling, we will know if the structures are parts of Buddhist vihars, temples or a row of houses," they said.

Shambu Kallolikar, when contacted, confessed the project was in a state of limbo. However, he denied charges of arm-twisting. "If they (archaeologists) think I am bulldozing them, they're wrong. We are ready to alter the structural design if the harbour meddles with their monuments. But, they have no conclusive proof. So, we're asking National Institute of Oceanography, Goa to do a survey. Also let me make it clear there's no political pressure to push this project through."

timeschennai@ timesgroup. com
 
Karuvum Karunanidhi and Swami Vivekananda
VEDAPRAKASH
Introduction: The DMK government wanted the historic Vivekananda Illam (Vivekananda House) on Kamarajar Salai / Beach Road vacated two years before the expiry of the 10 year lease (in 2010). DMK representatives asked the Ramakrishna Mutt to vacate the premises by Thursday, April 24. The irony is that Karunanidhi facilitated the Mutt getting the building — originally Castle Kernan and later known as Ice House — back in 1997, during his previous tenure. State government records say Swami Vivekananda stayed at Castle Kernan for nine days, from February 6-15, 1897, after his visit to the Parliament of Religions at Chicago. On this basis the government, on the centenary of the Swami's visit, decided to grant the lease and the lease was given on condition, according to `government order 89' of the higher education department on February 24, 1997, that the building be used for a museum highlighting Swami Vivekananda's teaching. The building was renovated and on December 20, 1999, Karunanidhi extolled Swami Vivekananda, and called the Ramakrishna mission "an Everest among NGOs". The 10-year lease was given a month later. However, now the position is changing for unknown reasons.
How the controversy arose now? It is a fact that the Government officials came to Vivekanda House enquiring about the expiry of lease and the possibility of their shifting to some other place[1]. As the Head of the Sri Ramakrishna Mutt has been away, the Saints of the SRKM Order replied that they would inform the matter to his Mutt-head. Meanwhile, when the officials informed the matter back, they were ordered to take the name of CM. This has only created the problem. On the pretext of searching for a suitable location, they eyed on the "Vivekanandar Illam". Had the intention was not like that, they could have gone to "Palaru Illam", which is also on the same Kamarajar Road! But, they came down to "Vivekanandar Illam" only! When the matter was known, the Press immediately made enquiries and published on 25th papers[2]. Then Karunanidhi could sense the all-India implication of the issue and he decided to settle the issue in his own way of kicking back.
Karunanidhi has decided not to leave anybody before he leaves his position as CM. Now, his target has been on Swami Vivekananda. One should carefully read and understand his usage of Tamil words and expressions, as he has been very clever, smart and crafty in using such words and expressions in the context with double-meanings, triple meanings etc. That he used such words and expressions right inside the TN Assembly in the context of Swami Vivekananda Memorial, Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, the SRKM Order of Saints etc., could be noted easily.
"All have talked and discussed about a thing that is not there. When Kambam Ramakrishnan spoke, he urged `let the Vivekanda House be there'. Yes, I also reminded brother Ramakrishnan as an elder brother that it should be there. Six lakh people are here to claim the right over Vivekananda. The VivekanandaTemple at Kanyakumari was inaugurated by V. V. Giri only under my presidential ship in 1970. When the people of the district created problems against it, I only solved them.
"The Head of Ramakrishna Mutt made a request to hand over the memorial house, where Vivekandandr stayed there in 1897 for nine days and gave lectures. The areas of 27,546 sq.ft situated on Kamarajar Road was leased to the Mutt for three years with conditions with a lease amount of Rs 3,000/- per annum. Then as they requested 8,928 sq.ft infront of the house, as there was no entrance to the house, the 90 sq.m land was leased out for three years @ Rs. 1,000 per annum. When they asked the lease for 30 years, I replied that that the matter should be discussed in the Assembly with ministers.
"The Press has reported that as if there was fight between the members of Vivekanda House and the DMK government and the DMK had determined to grab the Vivekananda House with headlines. I do not know why it should be taken hold of. Is there any enmity between Vivekanandar and us? When he brings out opinion of analytical wisdom, how we can have enmity with him? I told the ministers on that day itself that, `as the views of Vivekanandar have been consistent with Periyar, Anna, I suggested that we could spread our views with the help of them and thus, we have parivu (love or pity) and patru (attachment) with him.
[Note: Here the word `parivu' has two meanings – 1. Love, pleasure and 2. Distress, affliction, to fondle, to treat with attention. As he used to use the Tamil words with different connotation, one has to be careful in which context, he is using, as he has been in the nature of using such words with sarcasm, vengeance and even vulgarism or blasphemy to the core].
"No notice was sent in the context of Vivekananda House. When we received a letter sanctioning Rs. 76 crores advising us to make arrangement for `Imperunguzhu, Enberayam', we decided to locate a permanent place at Sozhinganallur. So temporarily, when we searched for own places nearby for temporary accommodation, they engaged in spreading stories, as such trick did not succeed and now they try to pit the Samiyars against us just by pushing us towards them (Note. The word `Samiyar' is always used by him and his group in the most derogatory way). We are not in an ignorant state, so that we cannot understand you, as we are not bothered about you trick of making us to combat with `Samiyar' or `mamiyar'.
[So here, the cat is out. He sarcastically says that they are not worried whether they are pitted against sanyasis or mother-in-laws, as it is a regular feature for them. Moreover, note their status, as they have more-than-one or many `mamiyar', thus putting the `samiyar' also with their level].
"We are not going to remove the building, then why you allowed discussing about it by giving such a long time? To discuss about Vivekananda by our leaders and all to listen to them only (I gave time). It was long back that we talked about Vivekanandar. Vivekandar axed down the superstition, ate meat and acted with reformative attitude, as such things would not affect him. Some people have written that we are going to demolish the House. Is it so weak structure to be demolished? No. None has wanted to demolish it, thought of demolishing and even turned towards it.
"The Periya Samiyar (Big Samiyar) of the Mutt has challenged that they would take legal action, if the Vivekanandar House is touched. But I am not afraid of such challenges. But, Sadhus should not stoop down to the level of threatening or challenging. That is against the principle of Vivekanandar and against their Gurunathar Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. Against this government, they challenge? It is not correct to challenge this government that has built such a big mantap there in the Kanyakumari and continued to nourish and protect it. Please have peace. At least follow the principle of Vivekanandar in this aspect. There is no issue of demolishing the House or shifting it from the old place to new place. Therefore, do not bother or bluster unnecessarily (alattikolla vendam), when the position is like this. Do not make it as a big issue. Whatever is there, it would be there as t is. We have now a temporary place, that `Palaru Illam', on the same Kamarajar Road. Thus, the "Chemmozhi" would be carried on there in the temporary Palaru House, till we get permanent place at Sozhinganallur."

(contd.)
 
contd. from previous posting...

Karunidhi in 1970 ad 2008: Karunanidhi has been an expert in telling the lies as facts and present facts as lies or that never happened. Do you know that Karu recited Sanskrit verse: "Uthistahtha Jagrata, Prapyavarn Nibhodhata"? If anyone does not know the meaning or cannot recollect, kindly read the following. No doubt, that he was the CM and on September 2, 1970, the President V. V. Giri inaugurated under his Presidentship. But, anybody remembers or can recall what he spoke there:
"The name `Vivekananda' means, one who can distinguish the right from the wrong. He ia noble sage who had universal vision, which ennobled everyone who came in contact with him or with teachings.
"Though he is not with us today, the flame he lit is still alight and from his teachings have sprung the conscience of India and faith in her unity. And his great message manking finds solace and confidence.
"The memorial stands here today will be a sentinel guarding not only our frontiers but also our cultural traditions.
"Swami Vivekananda always had before him the great motto of elevation of masses. His messages are always gospels of salvation, social elevation and equality for everyone.
"I am very happy to inform on this historica occasion that the Tamilnadu government is wedded to the thoughts and gospels for which Swami Vivekananda stood.
Sri M. Karunanidhi concluded by quoting Vivekananda's exhortation[3]: "Uthistahtha Jagrata, Prapyavarn Nibhodhata" (Arise, Awake and stop not till the goal is reached).
So he now tries to blackout Eknath Ranade[4] (1914-1982) who shed sweat and blood to create the Memorial at Kanmyakumari. In fact, The statue of Thiruvalluvar[5] was erected strategically on a minor rock off the shore[6], in Kanyakumari, near Vivekananda Memorial. The statue sponsored by the Government of Tamilnadu, Karuinanidhi sarcastically remarked that it should be above the Memorial! Of course, in the 10 crores project, there has been CAG report pending for misappropriation of money by producing fake vouchers. It was unveiled on 1st January 2000, by M Karunanidhi. Last year, the House, where Swami Vivekanda stayed was demolished at Tirunelveli without any sense of history[7].
His wrong interpretation of Swami Vivekananda eating meat: There is no bar for non-Brahmins to eat non-vegetarian. Kshatriyas, the fighting and protecting creed had to eat. But, Swami Vivekanda"s case is different, just like his Master. But just like eating meat one cannot think of becoming Swami Vivekananda or Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. Karunanidhi cannot become knath Ranade, just because, Giri attended the function under him! All meat-eaters cannot becomes Swamis. Or by eating meat, the Swamis cannot be equated with Karu-like Black or Red Parivar groups. It is only gross misinterpretation to mislead the general public.
The Christian missionaries interpreted in the same way to malign Osho also. Of course, Jeffery Kripal and others targeted Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa in the same way. Even Swami Vivekananda was not spared by the missionaries. They carried out propaganda against him through the media in the 19th century itself! So, that Karunanidhi follows such tactics proves that as usual his "think-tank" comprising P. Jagadesan, A. Karunanandam (he was with Vivekananda College SRKM, but now converted to DK), S. V. Rajadurai etc. Karunandam has been helping Karu and DK by supplying anti-Hindu, anti-Rama, anti-Sethu material.
His veiled threat or warning to SRKM Saints – arrogant and unwarranted: The tone and tenor of language used exposes his hatred and venomous threat against SRKM Saints. He cannot address them in such a low-level language, as he used to do with others.


There have been people in Madras, who have been listening to his speech regularly, particularly, the mid-night meetings. Therefore, they know the derogatory connotation of the words and expressions used. His double-game, double-act etc., are well known. In 1970, he talks about "our culture, traditions" etc., and cites Sanskrit quotation, now, after 38 years, he talks nonsense and filthy about the same. How to assesses his "analytical wisdom"?

VEDAPRAKASH

26-04-2008
 
சாதுக்கள் சவால் விடக் கூடாது - கலைஞர் அறிவுரை


எனக்கு ஒரு ஆசை - விவேகானந் தரைப் பற்றி நம்முடைய தலைவர்கள் எல்லாம் பேசிக் கேட்க வேண்டும் என்பதற்காகத் தான் எல்லோரும் பேச அது இங்கே பரவ வேண்டும், ரொம்ப நாளாகி விட்டது விவேகானந்தரைப் பற்றி பேச என்பதற்காக - அவர் மூட நம்பிக்கைகளையெல்லாம் சாய்த்தவர் - மத வெறிக்கு ஆளாகாதவர் - ஜாதி வெறியைச் சாய்த்தவர் - அப்படிப்பட்ட புரட்சிக்காரர் விவேகானந்தர் என்ற காரணத்தாலும், அவர் இறைச்சி உணவு அருந்தக் கூடியவர், புகை பிடிக்கக் கூடியவர் - இவையெல்லாம் தன்னை ஒன்றும் செய்யாது மனம் சுத்தமாக இருந்தால் என்று எண்ணி சீர்திருத்த நோக்கங் களோடு செயல்பட்டவர். அப்படிப்பட்ட விவேகானந்த ருடைய பெயரால் இருக்கின்ற அந்த மண்டபத்தை இடிக்கப் போகிறோம் என்று சில அவசரக்காரர்கள் எழுதியிருக் கிறார்கள். பாருங்கள், இடிக்கக் கூடிய மண்டபமா அது? இடிக்கக் கூடிய அளவிற்கு அவ்வளவு வலுவிழந்த மண் டபமா? இல்லை; வலுவான மண்டபம். அதை யாரும் இடிக்க விரும்பவுமில்லை, நினைக்கவுமில்லை, அதற்காக அந்தப் பக்கம் திரும்பவுமில்லை. “அந்த மண்டபத்தை தொட்டால் நாங்கள் சட்டப்படி சந்திப்போம், முறைப்படி தான் நடக்கிறோம் என்று அந்த மடத்தினுடைய பெரிய சாமியார் கூட சவால் விட்டிருக் கிறார். நான் அந்த சவால்களுக்கெல்லாம் பயப்படவில்லை. அது வேறு விஷயம். ஆனால், சாதுக்கள் சவால் விடுகின்ற அளவிற்கு வரக் கூடாது. அது விவேகானந்தருடைய கொள்கைக்கே - அவருடைய குருநாதர் இராமகிருஷ்ண பரமஹம்சர் அவர்களுடைய கொள்கைக்கே விரோதமானது. இந்த அரசைப் பார்த்தா சவால் விடுவது. குமரிமுனையிலே அவ்வளவு பெரிய கோபுரம் கட்டி, மண்டபம் அமைத்து, அங்கே விவேகானந்தருடைய மண்டபத்தை போஷித்துப் பாதுகாத்து வருகின்ற இந்த அரசைப் பார்த்து சவால் விடுவது நல்லதல்ல, சாந்தம் பெறுங்கள். இதிலாவது விவேகானந்தருடைய விவேகமான பொன்மொழியைப் பின்பற்றுங்கள் என்று அவர்களைக் கேட்டுக் கொண்டு இதை இடிப்பதாகவோ அல்லது பழைய இடத்திலிருந்து புதிய இடத்திற்கு செல்வதாகவோ எந்தப் பிரச்சினையும் இல்லை. இருப்பதெல்லாம் அப்படியே இருக்கும் என்ற உண்மையை உங்களுக்குச் சொல்லி வீணாக நாம் அலட்டிக் கொள்ள வேண்டாம், பிரச்சினையைப் பெரிது படுத்த வேண்டாம், இந்த அரசைப் பொறுத்த வரையில் நாங்கள் தேடிய வரையிலே தற்காலிகமாக எங்களுக்குக் கிடைத்திருக் கிற இடம் அதே காமராஜர் சாலையில் பாலாறு இல்லம் - அந்தப் பாலாறு இல்லத்தில், சோளிங்கநல்லூரில் எங்களுக்கு அந்தப் பெரிய கட்டிடம் அமைகின்ற வரையில் தற்காலிகமாக செம்மொழி மையம் இங்கே இடம் பெறும், செம்மொழி நிறுவனம் பாலாறு இல்லத்தில் நடைபெறும் என்பதைத் தெரிவித்து அமைகின்றேன்.
 
This forum is being misused for launching repeated attacks on DMK and the C.M. Most of these postings are cut and paste from other sources.

This is entirely against the very purpose of this forum. Most of these attacks are political in nature.

I request the Administrators to ensure that such cut and paste attacks on political parties is stopped immediately.

Our memory is not that short that we can forget the humiliation suffered by our Acharya at the hands of the earlier regime. The earlier regime is one of the most active proponent of reservations. There is no political party in India which is opposed to reservation.

This forum is not meant for propagating the views of discredited opportunistic politicians with absolutely no popular support.

This forum is being turned into a second hand cut and paste forum with the propagation of the view of a small segment of the Brahmin community whose motto is "Malice towards All".
 
Dear Sri Ramaa

Sri Karunanithi is known to be a "fan of Poompuhar". There are many reasons. It is located in his home district (part of undivided Thanjavur district) and is nearer his home town. These are the areas where he started his political journey. Poompuhar is part of Tamil heritage - this is where Silappathikaram happened. He wrote the screen play and dialogue for the movie Poompuhar.

It is well known that the Poompuhar of yore was submerged in sea. The State Department of Archeology has in its control - the excavated site of Buddha vihara as described in Manimekalai. This Vihara is supposed to have housed Manimekalai and the descriptions given in the literature goes with the excavations. This site is located some six or seven kms from the present day shore. Sri Natana Kasinathan, the then State Director of Archeology personally showed me around this excavation. He was keen during his tenure of office to do underwater excavation, but the Government changed in 2001. I have developed special interest in archeology and have been lobbying for the underwater excavation of this area.

Sri Karunanithi created some tourism infrastructure in Poompuhar during his first tenure of office in the 1970s. Some of the Senior PWD officers informed me that the State guest house was designed by him personally when he was the PWD Minister. The entire infrastructure was ignored by the subsequent AIADMK governments just because they were made by him, but that is politics. These are history and the people know them all. I for one would not believe that he would ever bull doze any one to make a fishing harbour destroying the underwater archeology, as his love for Poompuhar is well known, and it has nothing much brahminical according to him. (What is the incentive for its destruction? It has no link to Lord Sri Rama)

I think that this journalist sees this issue with a coloured glass.

Regards

Appaiah
 
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Dear Appaiahji,

I am apolitical when it comes to my religion, Brahminism and heritage are concerned. I used to post in another forum when JJ was in power and I tore her sheen when she arrested Achaaryaal. She is not in power and so she is like a snake without teeth. So I have no use going after her. But Karunanidhi is doing harm to the Brahmins about which I did posted something that naturally were forwarded post as they contain more details. I am glad you were giving your opinion unlike the other guy who has nothing to refute. I see him to be equally political trying to hide someone! That is his choice. Every karma will bring its own reward.

Regards,
 
Dear Sri Ramaa

I am sad that you drag some other person while replying to me. I have not referred to Ms Jayallaithaa or anything political in my post or for that matter the post made by Sri Nacchinarkiniyan. If you are upset with the post of Sri Nacchinarkiniyan, you could have addressed it to him. If you write this in reply to me, it appears that I am considered a good guy and he is not. Let us move with the feeling of togetherness at least in this forum. There should be no animosity at least amongst our own folks. I feel I made a mistake by making my last post.

Regards

Appaiah
 
Once again let me repeat

1. This is not a political forum.

2. This is not a forum for propagating the views of other forums/news papers by cut and paste.

3. This forum is for the Tamil Brahmins and helping the community.

4. A Tamil Brahmin is one who considers himself/herself as a member of the community. Any other restrictive definition is totally against the basic principles of this forum.

5. Hurling abuses and posting in all capitals (which is against the basics of posting in Internet forums) can not silence the majority.

6. I request the silent majority to post so that the administrators will take requisite action to bring the forum back to normalcy.

This hijacking of the forum by sectarian and political elements has to stop before it causes permanent damage to the forum. Such elements have effectively neutralized many forums in the past.

I am used to abuses in this forum. I have faced even physical threats in real life and have been beaten (given and taken) up for airing my views. So such tactics will not put me off.
 
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without sounding offensive to the rest of the community, i wish to second nacchinarkiniyan's expectations of this forum. the point #5 is the centrepiece of our participation here.

we need to stress on the positive aspect of our community. how we can meet some of the challenges that we have to face as individuals. our focus is to enrich the rest by our contribution, whether it be philosophy, history or plain day to day stuff.

to take a broad strike at the political spectrum, while may be informative to some, it can also be deemed offensive to others. it is best, in the overall interest of our own selves, that we leave politics out of here, for politics by its very nature, divisive.

we do not need any more division than what we have as our sub castes and sub sub castes. let us approach, gently and respectfully, towards unity, in the best of sense. not for vindictive or in anger.

peace.
 
Traditional names of Tamil calendar knocked off:

All official communications will henceforth avoid the 60 names given to the Tamil years. Instead, they will merely give the year in terms of `Thiruvalluvar era'. The order follows another controversial step that the government had taken recently when it changed the Tamil New Year from the first day of the month of Chithirai (mid-April) to the first day of Thai, also celebrated as Pongal, the Tamil harvest festival (mid-January). A government order issued early this month by the Personnel and Administrative Reforms Department has instructed all departments, including collectors and district judges, not to mention the present Tamil year Sarvajit in government orders, official letters, communications, and other publications. And in future, all departments have been told not to mention the 60-years in the Tamil calendar, from Prabava to Akshaya at any time in future. Only the Tamil month, date and Thiruvalluvar year should be mentioned alongside the Christian year, the order says. The 60-year cycle, in which each year has a name, is sequenced in the traditional Tamil almanac (panchangam). Interestingly, the names of the years in the Tamil calendar are in Sanskrit. And this is what seems to have irked Dravidian patriarch and chief minister M Karunanidhi. "Is it rational to take refuge in the age old panchangam?" Karunanidhi had asked in a recent poem when there was a debate among Tamils on the rationale behind shifting of Tamil New Year. Enquiry with Tamil scholars reveal that the Tamil months and days find reference in Tholkappiam and Sangam literature but the names of 60-years have no reference in Tamil texts anywhere. "The non-Tamil names of the years are not found in the same sequence in any of the North Indian calendars,'' say officials in Tamil Development Department. Besides, the confusion over the occurrence of an event in a given year, say, Sarvajit, cannot be avoided as there would be more than one Sarvajit years in a century, officials point out. By numbering every year under the Thiruvalluvar era, like the Christian era, it will be easy to relate to a particular year without any confusion, officials said, explaining the rationale behind the order. For instance, this year is Thiruvalluvar year 2039. The era has been named after the ancient saint-poet and author of the Thirukkural. However, the Dravidian leader is clear that this is not the place for Aryans. In the same poem, he had questioned the validity of giving such names for the years. "I am not against those who want to uphold Aryan values, but I will not allow anyone to stand in the way of my objective of giving importance to the kural-based Tamil era," he said. Thus, it is imperative to analyse the issue and find out the truth.

Karunanidhi carries on the British legacy:

Many times, researchers, social-analysts, political-forecasters, religious-prophets assert that enemies need not come from outside, but they are created within themselves or in a particular society or nation by others, so that they carry out and fulfil their expected or anticipated acts. Thus, the British sowed the seeds of unhistorical hypotheses and theories of Aryans and Dravidians and other blabbering
[2]. In Indian historical tradition, there had never been such mention about two different races existing and fighting with each other always in the ancient Bharat. In fact, the Sangam literature mention about "Aryans", but no whisper about "Dravidians". In fact, such mentioned "Aryans" were never considered or treated as coming from outside Bharat, but people of part of Bharat. Though historians have accepted that there were neither Aryans nor Dravidians and the AIT is a myth[3], the only creed on the earth believes, nurtures and carries it have been the Dravidian groups of all sorts. They still believe in race, racism, racialism, blood and other pseudo-scientific and discarded race hypotheses and theories[4]. Ironically, though they carry on and survive on such idiotic, unhistorical and anti-human belief and doctrines and dogmas, the westerners support them directly and indirectly[5]. Karunanidhi and others of the Black Paryivar have been always talking, discussing and writing only in terms of racist language inciting hatred among the people. Recently, the acts of Karunanidhgi reveal a single point agenda – oppose everything that is Hindu. It is very open, perhaps, as his utterances and actions prove. Starting with his blasphemous attack on Rama, his anti-Hindu tirade has increased with aggressive geometrical progression and astronomical proportions. The recent one being interfering with the celebration of Tamil New Year's Day by forcing temples not to follow the Pancangam and all. This is blatant interference of the government with the practice of crores of believers of the country and he has no locus standi to do that. As the British tried to destroy or suppress the Kali Era[6], Karunanidhi (b.1924) is trying to bury the glorious past of the Tamils under the guise of opposing Sanskrit and Hindu calendar, which is totally incorrect[7]. In fact, people have forgotten his own appreciation of such 60-year cycle incorporating in his poem (for details see below). The DK and other Black Parivar has been evidently pressurising him to do such nonsensical acts of meddling with history and chronology of the Tamils. It is evident that the advisers or the propounders that Tamil literature had no reference to sixty-year cycle have no basic knowledge of Indian Tamil tradition, astronomy and history as explained below.
Sowiyanukkup Piragu Intha Sadharanan: C. N. Annadurai (1909-1969) had a name "Sowmiyan". As he died in 1969, he came to power and at that time, he composed a song, "Sowiyanukkup Piragu Intha Sadharanan" came for ruling! At that time, the Government AIR / DD used to broadcast the New Year poem recital by VIPs and others. Karunanidhi composed a poem and recited in his usual way. Annadurai had a pen name "Sowmiyan". Ironically or incidentally, he died in the year "Sowmiya"! If you go through the list of 60 years, the year Sowmiya precedes Sadharana. When Annadurai died in the Sowmiya Andu (1969-70), Karunanidhi became CM in the Sadharana Andu (1970-71). Making it figuratively, he composed the lines that, "Sowiyanukkup Piragu Intha Sadharanan" came to rule! What happened to his ideology at that time? He did not think about Tiruvalluvar Andu at that time, but gleefully singing song as mentioned. How is that the years which were acceptable to him 38 years back became suddenly anathema? As a CM also, he did not bother to remove such names and not to use such 60 years – starting with Prabhava and ending with Akshaya! Is it not shame to call himself so as Sadharanan and his predecessor-mentor as Sowmiyan? Thus, it is evident that something happened to him or controlling him to act like this.

(contd.)

 
The fact is our community is targetted attack for this political party, some community members wanted to communicate the atrocities commited against us.

If somebody beat us, and if we cry foul, it should not be construed that we are attacking them. We are rather defending ourself.

I'm made aware of what's happening by various posts of Sri Ramaa. It is a service and I certainly welcome Sri Ramma's various posts.

Others always have their choice to ignore the issue, if it doesn't go well with them.
 
Hey ! what is this ?

This guy says - he wants to change new year, he wants to change age old traditions, his party people swindled many of our lands, no law and order - rowdy rajyam and what you expect us to do - nothing , can't even post his atrocities.

Be silent for what? for peace? That's not peace - That's how we allow others to broke us into pieces.
 
Others always have their choice to ignore the issue, if it doesn't go well with them.

malgova,

that too is an option. actually, you could argue that the silent majority infact may love these kind of postings. no sweat.

maybe, we can have a group called 'politics' and confine it to that group instead of 'general discussions'?

that way, we can satisfy all groups, and access only our preferred threads. i think the issue may, that postings of political nature, may be inserted in threads which may have been initially intended for other topics.

though i agree that the title of this thread is clear enough - but it is definitely qualifies under 'politics', and not 'general discussions'.

stepping this one step further, would it be beneficial to start a thread, where the poster might give an example of how he/she has been impacted adversely either by reservation or by government (tamil nadu specifically) policies? it might give a human face to an otherwise prosaic government edict?

have you been personally impacted? if so, please let us have the benefit of your experience, and how you dealt the adversity. i do beg your pardon, if this infringes on your privacy. apologies in advance.

thank you.

ps.. it is banganapalli season in chennai. hope you enjoy some of it, even though your nomenclature indicates an otherwise preference :) :)
 
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I agree in toto with whatever Sri Nacchinarkiniyan has said as regards making copy, paste posts of politically motivated articles and using this forum as a political platform.

This forum should not become a political front for any politician. This is not a place for fishing votes by any party, whoever it may be.

I would like to caution Sri Kunjuppu that even starting a separate section for politics in this forum is fraught with danger.

Why should this forum sing the glory of any politician or sing the downfall of any other politician? That surely is not the purpose for which this forum is formed, as I understand.

Whoever wants to post and discuss politics can start a separate forum and go over there. Let them not bring a political tag to Tamil Brahmins as a whole. That would cause more damage than what has already been suffered.

I presume that this is a public forum meant for the welfare of Tamil Brahmins. Only that which concerns the welfare, that which would further the welfare and that which would not harm the welfare of the Tamil Brahmins should figure here. There is no difficulty in bringing about some self-discipline in such matters if all of us co-operate.

In a public place one cannot shout anything and say "ignore if you don't like it". Whatever Sri Malgova.Mango says is akin to saying so. Even if one person finds the noise too loud, making such noise is nuisance.
 
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appaiah,

i am veering towards your views, as i have indicated similar views, and completely in agreement with nacchi.

perhaps, it would help if chintana stepped in, and clarify the protocols?

please?

thank you.
 
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Friends,

Any Forum lives for the needs of it's membership. This one should be no different.

My personal view is that such cut and pastes, spewing venom on all others who seem to have done wrong to us as well as all Hindus do nothing except to raise unnecessary passions in our youth without giving out any solutions. Most of the time the authors of such articles get more circulation this way through their friends of the same ilk. And most of the times, the article is not even properly cited, and if so, then no thoughts/comments/articulation is attached by our Forum members who have posted such articles to add any value or further the discussion.

There are enough mouthpieces for every kind of political hue out there and these types of articles are published there regularly and depending upon our member's intersests they can always go and read them there. The problem in posting such attack articles here is that the site itself then is viewed with such a hue. And as I have argued elsewhere, to promote the interests of our community, which is a very small minority, we can not afford to be seen as taking sides, attacking a particular power base etc. using this Forum.

There was just recently a $100 MM libel case filed in the courts of Manhattan, NY, on the basis of some anti Sonia advertisements. The motives and the legality of such a law suit can be questioned, but not the brief turmoil and cost it heaves upon those who are being sued.

I know this site is owned and supported by one person. All the more reason for us to be cautious as to what we post. There are countless 'interested' parties always watching and reading.

Then there is the 'solutions' aspect. Such postings while raising anger within ourselves, never give out any proper outlets to resolve the issues. As Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji aptly points out, that a large portion of us still live in TN. Are we helping our community or are we preparing them for war on the bais of such e-war postings that we cut and paste from the comforts of our home?

I agree with what Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji and Sri Appaiah Ji have stated above. I think we should stay clear of all politics, trying to find ways to improve our lot socially. We may support one politician's stance against another on a particular issue, but sooner we realize that we are a very small minority, which is not very liked, better off we will be in our measured responses.

I remember one time Sowbhagyavathi Chintana Ji conducting a poll asking the contributors of a particular thread to respond to the issue of continuing or closing a disputed thread. Many voted and it was decided to keep the thread open. May be to make the process equitable in the eyes of certain members, such a step may be taken by Sri Praveen Ji.

It always amuses me, that the few of us who always preach unity, are never willing to entertain any ideas from others who they consider as the internal 'enemies'. They immediately start calling names ('that guy') even though they know that the posters are quite older to themselves, except they preach that all elders words should be respected! Go figure!

Pranams,
KRS
 
(continued)

Can any Era be introduced just like that? In the history of humankind, era is introduced, because of the good acts of a person on his capacity as a master, teacher, ruler, king, empire and so on, that too, buy the beloved people. Era has not been just age of reason, epoch of achievement, period of conquests or time of wisdom, but it is human past recorded in the memory and passed on to the progeny for practice. It is connected with chronology of people to be recorded for history. Chronology and history are connected, though the methods may differ in the respective fields because of human bias. Thus, history can be meddled with differing historiographical methods, but chronology cannot be meddled, even if meddled, such meddling would get exposed immediately. Chronology is a combination of method applied using mathematics, astronomy, cosmology and geology. At one side, it is the study of time, time measurement and time recording techniques, but at the other side, the time recording of humanity, human activity and human achievements also.

The cognition and calculation of day and night, observed solar and lunar effects and movements, vernal equinoxes, periodic rotation of planets, asterism, zodiac, and calendar – all are involved in it. Man has observed such events and recorded with diligence over period of time and therefore, the past astronomical recordings cannot be brushed aside, unless, astronomically and scientifically something is proved wrong in such past observations and recordings. In fact, such exercise was carried out then and there, as could be seen from the criticism of methods of one astronomer by another. The correction carried on has been an accepted standard, it such corrective methodology is aimed at perfection of time recording. So if any era is introduced, the introducer takes all factors into consideration. It is not just like insertion of one month each in ten-month calendar making twelve-month calendar.

Just look at the names of the months now we follow: January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, and December. Scholars have pointed out September, October, November, and December clearly point to – seventh month (sapta = seven), eighth month (octa = eight), ninth month (nava = nine), tenth month (dasa = ten). The westerners claim that the months July and August have been the intruders because of Julius Caesar[8] and August Caesar[9]. So an intelligent student can ask what happened to the first to sixth months? Why their names were changed? Could they be known as Ekamber, Dwiamber, Triamber, Caturambar, Panchamber, Hastamber?[10] Just by introducing two months, they cannot adjust the calendar. Then, we are explained that not only, they inserted two more months in the ten-month calendar, but to show off their superiority, they made their months with maximum days i.e, 31 days! If Julius Caesar could have done it, why not by August Caesar? And how it was done? Just by grabbing days from other months[11]. It appears so wonderful, so astronomical and so scientific. Thus, we follow the wonderful calendar throughout the world, as forced by the colonial rulers.

(continued..)
 
There is no response from any of the administrators/moderators to our requests. I wonder whether people like myself, Appiah, KRS, Kunjuppu have any place in this forum. There is no point in trying to stem the tide when the owners are not interested.

We have tried. But when there is absolutely no response from any of the administrators/moderators, you start wondering about the priorities of this forum. May be the priorities outlined by me is all wrong.

May be administrators/moderators are happy with this forum being turned into a political one and all the cut and paste posts.

This is one of the main problems of the Tamil Brahmin Community. They stand silent and mute when rabble rousers claim to speak on behalf of the community. The silent majority remail silent.

The DK, DMK and all other Brahmin Baiters are very happy with this group of pseudo Brahmins because they once again confirm their opinion of the Brahmin community. Their entire theories are based on the behaviour of such Brahmins. They would be very happy to see the posts of some of our members. There was a discussion about why Brahmins are hated? You have to only go trough the posts of these pseudo Brahmins to understand the reasons.

Anyway I am off the forum till Saturday.
 
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Dear Sri Kunjuppu,

I didn't see any politics involved in the posts of Sri Ramaa. He didn't attack any leaders at personal level. He only posted the issues affecting or culture because of current government policies. There is no canvasing for any other parties.

There is no malice as quoted by Sri N, towards anyone in the posts of Sri Ramaa. He is only dealing with the absurd policies which has dramatic effect to our native culture. The policies are drafted by the current ruling party and so he got to name the party. The culture is destroyed because of that policies - is it not a fact ?

The forum is meant to discuss various issues affecting our culture.

For personal experience, I don't have to quote mine, I can use yours, it is because of the bad policies of government you are driven to a foreign country , please don't tell me that you separated from your parents because of your love for Toronto. The governance there is much better than here, so there money has a much more value than ours, that pulled you.

Could you see the impact of bad policies affecting our lives from your own personal experience?

Hope you could understand the position.

Regards


malgova,

that too is an option. actually, you could argue that the silent majority infact may love these kind of postings. no sweat.

maybe, we can have a group called 'politics' and confine it to that group instead of 'general discussions'?

that way, we can satisfy all groups, and access only our preferred threads. i think the issue may, that postings of political nature, may be inserted in threads which may have been initially intended for other topics.

though i agree that the title of this thread is clear enough - but it is definitely qualifies under 'politics', and not 'general discussions'.

stepping this one step further, would it be beneficial to start a thread, where the poster might give an example of how he/she has been impacted adversely either by reservation or by government (tamil nadu specifically) policies? it might give a human face to an otherwise prosaic government edict?

have you been personally impacted? if so, please let us have the benefit of your experience, and how you dealt the adversity. i do beg your pardon, if this infringes on your privacy. apologies in advance.

thank you.

ps.. it is banganapalli season in chennai. hope you enjoy some of it, even though your nomenclature indicates an otherwise preference :) :)
 
Thanks Kunjuppu for clarifying. I take it that you imply not being part of the gang. I never mentioned that Appaiahji is part of the gang though somebody wants to fancy so! Of course he is also threatening to quit if I am not muffled or thrown out!!

I request the administrator to close this thread as it is not serving its purpose.
 
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ramaa,

without sounding offensive, i do beg your pardon, if i 'gang'ed up against anyone, or sounded like a gangster.

i think, we all, who belong here, have more in common, than our differences. in the eyes of the indian law, inspite of our variations of adherence to our heritage, the ascetic shankaracharya and the beef eating mani shankar iyer, are reduced to one common denomination - brahmins. such is the law, and as in this instance, proves once again, that the law is an ass.

in a written medium like this, where under the cover of anonymity, we do express our opinion, a little more freely, and with less inhibition. but pray do not read them as offensive. they are just an opinion. and in the same context, your point, about freedom to express, is also very valid. i respect that.

there will be issues that we will differ, but there will be issues where we will sync 100%. i will not like to be seen as ganging against or for anyone, because i agree with someone on something. i still agree with nacchinarkiniyan and krs re avoiding politics here in this forum, as i feel politics is divisive, and we do not need division here. that is my simple reason. but if it is not to be so, i will put it in the past, and move on and as duly suggested by you, will bypass those postings.

but even more important, is to have the conversation and banter going. it would dismay me, if you feel hurtful because of my disagreement. but i accept and respect your difference of opinioin. after all, even in the same family, don't we have as many opinions as there are members.

difference of opinion, in my view, should we welcomed and not just tolerated, but encouraged. if we all sing the same tune, this would indeed be dull. something useful can come, only with interaction of ideas and ideals, i feel. hopefully, we will do that here too, and contribute positive something, particularly towards the poorer sections of our community.

i hope this explains my stand, and i do hope we will carry on our discussions as and when our mutual interests cross. which it will sure do. :)

thank you.
 
malgova,

i had a little more time, to savor and reflect your post. i figure it deserves some explanations.

it is true i left india in the 1970s. those were tough times for young people to find jobs. in my graduating class of 250 or so, very few got jobs on their own. the plum jobs went to those who had connected uncles, fathers or potential fathers in law. the vast majority of us, did not have any prospects, and we just went back to university in india or where we could, abroad, in the hope, that we could find gainful employment more easily there.

the reason for migration was largely economic, though in my case, i had other personal reasons for leaving too. after more than 35 years, i have no feelings of guilt or regrets at my then decision, and to me, based on the circumstances, that is the best thing that happened to me.

ofcourse, any decisions, has its consequences, and i have opened up here to express some of them, with a hope, to find some kindredness or understanding. i believe that 'regret' is a part of life. it is an extremely fortunate human who does not own to any regret. and there are a few lucky ones like that. unfortunately, i am not one of them.

i personlly think the large migrations starting from the 1920s in our community, was based on economics, drive, ambition, and such qualities, and seldom were the results of discrimination or government neglect. some of it may be due to government inefficiency or benign neglect. i also agree that this view of mine could be disputed. so be it.

the luckiest indians are those youths of today, who having the benefit of a decent college studies, have jobs lined up for them before graduation. i have met a few, and it is sheer delight to see their view of the world. definitely winners here. but not so in the 1970s.

thank you for your patience to go through this long winded note.
 
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