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Countering terrorism and other problems

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Sravna...I think its high time to get real.

Spiritual energy to ward off a attack of terrorism?

What happened at URI needs to be investigated as why security was lax that led to just 4 terrorist trying to take down an army camp.

13 soldiers died on the spot burnt alive.

They suffered pain beyond our imagination.

One 19 year old Dogra soldier managed to shot dead one of the terrorist but he himself is critical now cos of being shot at.

Sravna..brave young men are dead cos the terrorist attacked them when they were unarmed filling up diesel.

The terrorists did not even have the guts to have a face to face battle.

I feel you should respect the soldiers instead of thinking that you can stop terrorist attack by merely imagining that you have spiritual powers while sitting comfortably at home.

These men gave up their lives for the nation...they did not just sit and imagine they have spiritual powers.
Dear Renuka,

Conventional methods alone wont help ward off terrorism. Even the U.S is not so successful with all the resources and intelligence at their disposal. The idea is to save lives. It does not matter whether I am suitting at my home and doing it or not. I am working on a solution that is bound to give results. Let us fight terrorism in every way we can and save precious lives.
 
Dear Renuka,

Conventional methods alone wont help ward off terrorism. Even the U.S is not so successful with all the resources and intelligence at their disposal. The idea is to save lives. It does not matter whether I am suitting at my home and doing it or not. I am working on a solution that is bound to give results. Let us fight terrorism in every way we can and save precious lives.

Yes Sravna,

USA can't handle anything...Indian army too can't handle terrorism but ONLY you can.

Just ask yourself honestly...what on earth have you done so far besides imagining that you have spiritual powers?

After some incident happens you start to claim you would use spiritual powers to rectify it.. if your spiritual power is so great why than acts of terror still happen?

Why your spiritual power does not form an armor around the whole universe to keep every evil out?

Have you even stopped to think for one second..how delusional all these sounds?

Where is God in all these?

Why isn't God using His powers in the happenings?

Even Lord Krishna let the Pandavas and Kauravas fight a war.

He did not resort to spiritual powers to change the mind of Duryodhana to make him hand over the kingdom to the Pandavas.

The Pandavas went tru hard ship..why didn't Lord Krishna use spiritual powers to stop Ashwattama from killing the Upa Pandavas that were sleeping at night.

Draupadi was so close to Krishna yet she lost all her sons.

Or may be even Lord Krishna does not have spiritual powers like you do.

That is why I am saying over and over again..wake up Sravna..you are in a deep slumber of delusion and might actually need some form of intervention for recovery.
 
OK Sravna...science could not find the plane but at least science tried.

Spirituality talks a lot but does not attempt anything and found nothing too.

But to be fair since Science and Spirituality both failed therefore Science is Cock and Spirituality is Bull.

I do not know Spiritual power, it may be real, or again it may be not.
Delusion is real. I too believed that Sravnaji was rational and coherent, but it was my mistake. I have stopped following him. Renukaji, why do you think you are going to convince Sravnaji to be rational.

Renukaji, You have more patience. LOL

Maya, literally "illusion" or "magic", has multiple meanings in Indian philosophies depending on the context. In ancient Vedic literature, Māyā literally implies extraordinary power and wisdom. In later Vedic texts and modern literature dedicated to Indian traditions, Māyā connotes a "magic show, an illusion where things appear to be present but are not what they seem". Māyā is also a spiritual concept connoting "that which exists, but is constantly changing and thus is spiritually unreal", and the "power or the principle that conceals the true character of spiritual reality".
 
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Dear Renuka,

Have you not heard of people possessing spiritual powers. You seem to sound possessing spiritual powers is unheard of? Why? One is not supposed to solve everything or play God by using spiritual powers but one can help others and make the world a lot better place. It is a gift to be used for the benefit of others and that is what I am trying to do. What is irrational or delusional in this? I do not understand.
 
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I do not know Spiritual power, it may be real, or again it may be not.
Delusion is real. I too believed that Sravnaji was rational and coherent, but it was my mistake. I have stopped following him. Renukaji, why do you think you are going to convince Sravnaji to be rational.

Renukaji, You have more patience. LOL

.


Dear Prasad Ji,

I guess I am more patient..part of my training.
 
Dear Renuka,

Have you not heard of people possessing spiritual powers. You seem to sound possessing spiritual powers is unheard of? Why? One is not supposed to solve everything or play God by using spiritual powers but one can help others and make the world a lot better place. It is a gift to be used for the benefit of others and that is what I am trying to do. What is irrational or delusional in this? I do not understand.


Dear Sravna,

I have heard of various types of powers at the same time I can sense a delusion when I see one...no more sugar coating my words.

BTW sometime last year you had mentioned that you would use Spiritual powers to bring down corruption in India..well what happened?

The problem is when you see no results of any form you still choose not to see that nothing has worked...you just do not want to face facts but choose to delude yourself..worse still you have started to claim credit for what you have no involvement at all..like claiming to used spiritual powers for MH370 debris.


Now you are openly trying to imply that you can handle terrorism as if the effort of the army is nothing compared to what you claim to do...but as I said before..What on earth did you do? Nothing.\


Yes..nothing..that the truth..better for you to know it.

I am not even a citizen of India but I choose to honour the fallen Indian soldiers for their supreme sacrifice and not make claims that one can use spiritual powers to handle terrorism...Why? Are you implying the soldiers are not good enough? Only you can handle everything?

You claim USA too cant handle anything...but what have you done?

Nothing...if all these is not irrational and delusional..than what else is?
 
Dear Renuka,

I am not going to try to convince you. I know the truth. Let us wait for things to happen.
 
This thread is in GD section. So there can be counter points.
Studies show it does not.
Prayer is a Placebo Effect at best. In studies like that performed by Harvard Medical School, prayer was shown to act no better than placebo. In fact, in this study prayer was specifically looked at in relation to recovery after surgery. It was found that those who were prayed for and knew of it did not recover faster than the control group with any statistical significance. And interestingly, the group that was prayed for but unaware of it (the group that would show if prayer had any real,n on-placebo effect) did WORSE than the control group.
Herbert Benson led a study to determine if prayers by congregations who did not know heart bypass patients would reduce the complications of surgery. They didn't. In fact, some prayed-for patients fared worse than those who did not receive prayers.
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2006/04.06/05-prayer.html
http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Harvard_prayer_experiment
If prayer works it is not logical ? Can any favor be achieved by merely praying ?
Prayer is a psychological exercise. It may take you away from the stress and worry. But can it affect the outcome of anything? If it affects, is it logical ? Can i get a job i want merely by praying ? If i get it, is it not due to my suitability for the job or is it because i simply prayed ? Can a person avoid any outcome by merely chanting ? No doubt, chanting can give you some solace. But can it be a master magician or is it only our mental perception?
I do believe in Brahman. Prayer In am doubtful.

Science can easily dismiss everything outside it as nonsense. But that may not be right.

I am basically a scientist. I have trained as a scientist. Yet I would say this:

1. science can always say that the experiment was done under the gravitation field and so the result is subject to that fact.

2. Science can say there were photons(during day time) and cosmic rays and many other radiations were impinging on the whole experiment and so the results are subject to the effects of that.

3. Science can say that the experinenting individual and the whole set of apparatus used for experiment and the whole lab was in constant motion in the universe and perhaps this has to be factored in while looking at the results produced.

With so many uncertainties we keep moving confidently. We are not sure about even the basic axiomatic statement that the shortest distance between two points is a straightline. It needs a correction however small it may be.

So let us accept that science does not give us the whole truth and it is subject to many ifs and buts--known and un known.

So scientific truths are truths relative to time and given situations.

Now coming to what is observed outside science which is not explained by science:

1. Prayer is found to have an effect. We do not know why or how.

2. Go to Vaitheeswaran Koil and give your thumb impression and pretend to be a dumb who can not speak. So you would not have given any info about yourself other than the thum impression. Yet the fellow there goes through the bundles of palm leaf manuscripts in his dilapidated house using your thumb impression as the identifying label and comes out with your name, your wife's name and your son/daughter's names and goes further to tell you what all will happen in the lives of these individuals. Can science do a similar thing? Or can science explain this?

3. When I go to a local astrologer/prasnam expert to ask him whether I may go ahead with the project of samprokshanam for the Krishna Temple in my native village which is far away in the south, this man sitting in his drawing room in a 2BHK flat in Chennai, asks me as if he knew my mind whether I have come to find out about doing the samprokshanam of a Krishna Temple just looking at my face-even before I speak a word. Then he goes on to tell me after a few minutes of meditation that the Krishna is in sitting posture with navneeth in his two hands. I am floored. Then he further says that there is an irrigation canal flowing just behind the backyard of my village house. Now I have no words. I just sit there dumb and wait for him to give me the date and time (as he seems to know everything) and he gives me precisely that info and tells me to go ahead with the project and complete it as Krishna is happy about it. Now science can not explain any of this.

4. Nor is science able to explain the ability of some people to bend an iron strip standing away from it and just looking at it intently.

5. Scientific truths keep changing with time as humanity comes into possession of better and better tools with which it looks deeper and deeper into the mysteries of nature.

So what we know is just very little and what we do not know is large. Newton said it succinctly "I am like a child standing on the sands of the beach counting my pebbles and shells while the vast ocean with its mysteries/treasures lies before me unconquered".
 
Dear Renuka,

I am not going to try to convince you. I know the truth. Let us wait for things to happen.

Dear Sravna,

Yes..no need to convince me too.

I am not waiting for anything.

I too know that everything happens for a reason and effort is needed to achieve anything.

An over active imagination can be fun too when we are in control of it..but when it goes out of control it becomes an enemy.

After all didnt the Geeta echo that "Only the mind can elevate itself and also degrade itself...the mind is the best friend and also the worst enemy".


And overdose of anything is always toxic.
 
Science can easily dismiss everything outside it as nonsense. But that may not be right.
I think the proper way to put it would be to say that anything that does not meet the requirements of science is unproven.

So let us accept that science does not give us the whole truth and it is subject to many ifs and buts--known and un known.

So scientific truths are truths relative to time and given situations.
Yes, and that is the strength of science. When new evidence is available and proven under conditions, it does not hesitate to accept the new. Everything is subject to applicable variables.

1. Prayer is found to have an effect. We do not know why or how.
The problem with this type of generalized conclusions is that the correlation cannot be proved.

2. Go to Vaitheeswaran Koil and give your thumb impression and pretend to be a dumb who can not speak. So you would not have given any info about yourself other than the thum impression. Yet the fellow there goes through the bundles of palm leaf manuscripts in his dilapidated house using your thumb impression as the identifying label and comes out with your name, your wife's name and your son/daughter's names and goes further to tell you what all will happen in the lives of these individuals. Can science do a similar thing? Or can science explain this?
No, but that does not mean that science is wrong or airplanes cannot fly... isnt it? Science would just say that it cannot be explained by rational means, and is not consistent.

3. When I go to a local astrologer/prasnam expert to ask him whether I may go ahead with the project of samprokshanam for the Krishna Temple in my native village which is far away in the south, this man sitting in his drawing room in a 2BHK flat in Chennai, asks me as if he knew my mind whether I have come to find out about doing the samprokshanam of a Krishna Temple just looking at my face-even before I speak a word. Then he goes on to tell me after a few minutes of meditation that the Krishna is in sitting posture with navneeth in his two hands. I am floored. Then he further says that there is an irrigation canal flowing just behind the backyard of my village house. Now I have no words. I just sit there dumb and wait for him to give me the date and time (as he seems to know everything) and he gives me precisely that info and tells me to go ahead with the project and complete it as Krishna is happy about it. Now science can not explain any of this.
I had mentioned this earlier - a guy touches live wire and the electricity does not harm him. Is he god? does he possess miraculous powers? perhaps kundalini awakening? You see, that something happens as a freak and not consistently over different persons adopting the same methodology cannot be construed as rational. I have also known and witnessed certain predictions that confounded logic but if one wants to follow such a path, it is blind belief and nothing else. The fact that science cannot explain it does not mean that it is sacrosanct and one should abandon reasoning.

4. Nor is science able to explain the ability of some people to bend an iron strip standing away from it and just looking at it intently.
Science is not witchcraft or "vetthalai mai poduthal" to explain everything at once. The process of reasoning would take time but when it arrives at a conclusion, it would be transparent and consistent.
5. Scientific truths keep changing with time as humanity comes into possession of better and better tools with which it looks deeper and deeper into the mysteries of nature.
So what? As time progresses, we do not have the same physical form that we possessed at birth, but that does not mean that you are non-existent.

So what we know is just very little and what we do not know is large. Newton said it succinctly "I am like a child standing on the sands of the beach counting my pebbles and shells while the vast ocean with its mysteries/treasures lies before me unconquered".
True, and nobody is arrogant when he says that science is a consistent process of enquiry trying to explain a phenomenon with known variables and a tested methodology.
 
I think the proper way to put it would be to say that anything that does not meet the requirements of science is unproven.

No. I would put it this way. Anything that does not meet the requirements of science(with all its limitations) as on date (though these requirements are tentative) will be in the realm outside science where existing scientific methods do not work.

Yes, and that is the strength of science. When new evidence is available and proven under conditions, it does not hesitate to accept the new. Everything is subject to applicable variables.

That is not a strength that can be misappropriated by science. It is the strength of knowledge in general. Knowledge keeps renewing itself regularly whether it is from science or from other sources. Science, in order to remain relevant, has to accept the new facts, factor them into its current searches and build new scientific knwledge--all for it to remain relevant and useful to humanity. That is why scientific truths are relative to time.

The problem with this type of generalized conclusions is that the correlation cannot be proved.

You are presumptive. There are well documented proofs and you will get them if you care to search for them.

No, but that does not mean that science is wrong or airplanes cannot fly... isnt it? Science would just say that it cannot be explained by rational means, and is not consistent.

Did I say that? Please read my post carefully again. I just asked whether science can explain a certain phenomenon. The answer is just no. Extrapolating it to flying machines is ignorance. There is no equivalence.

I had mentioned this earlier - a guy touches live wire and the electricity does not harm him. Is he god? does he possess miraculous powers? perhaps kundalini awakening? You see, that something happens as a freak and not consistently over different persons adopting the same methodology cannot be construed as rational. I have also known and witnessed certain predictions that confounded logic but if one wants to follow such a path, it is blind belief and nothing else. The fact that science cannot explain it does not mean that it is sacrosanct and one should abandon reasoning.

Again jumping the gun. Did I mention God anywhere? Please read my post carefully again and do not read between lines. And so you want to flaunt the word Kundalini. Good that you know that word. LOL. I wont call it freak. The man under reference had been doing it regularly to those who go to him. I went to him only because someone told me about him and the reference was not from someone who easily falls for freaks. Again you are too presumptive. This is what science does to some people. LOL. Reasoning is good no doubt. I am only trying to reason out the process of prasnam. LOL.

Science is not witchcraft or "vetthalai mai poduthal" to explain everything at once. The process of reasoning would take time but when it arrives at a conclusion, it would be transparent and consistent.

As if the world is longing and begging for an endorsement from science. Just as reasoning has processes, the other realities also have a process. The attempt is just to understand those processes. Those who are drunk with science dismiss those processes as nonsense and my objection is just to that arrogance.


So what? As time progresses, we do not have the same physical form that we possessed at birth, but that does not mean that you are non-existent.

Again no meaningful equivalence. I am making just a statement that science is relative to time and I have given the reasons why I say that. And you have already agreed with me on that.

True, and nobody is arrogant when he says that science is a consistent process of enquiry trying to explain a phenomenon with known variables and a tested methodology.

No one is questioning that. The objection is to the arrogance of some who dismiss other processes as non-existent or nonsense.

To make matters clear let me state this:

I enjoy the fruits of science, I do explore using scientific methods, I study the methods of science, I marvel the fruits of scientific research, I seek scientific knowledge, I am spellbound by the steady progress of science and I am a scientist myself. But I also have a healthy disrespect for science because it is not knowledge complete.

I recognize that there are truths and processes that are outside the realm of science, I seek knowledge of such truths also, I marvel such truths which do not confine themselves within the four walls of scientific knowledge as of today and yet are truths as they exist and I like to penetrate the mystique that go with most of these truths. I have a healthy disrespect for some of these processes and men/women who possess them because they are just inadequate.
 
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No. I would put it this way. Anything that does not meet the requirements of science(with all its limitations) as on date (though these requirements are tentative) will be in the realm outside science where existing scientific methods do not work.
Realm outside science = unproven. Unproven does not mean non-existant.

That is not a strength that can be misappropriated by science. It is the strength of knowledge in general. Knowledge keeps renewing itself regularly whether it is from science or from other sources. Science, in order to remain relevant, has to accept the new facts, factor them into its current searches and build new scientific knwledge--all for it to remain relevant and useful to humanity. That is why scientific truths are relative to time.
Science is a process of acquiring knowledge, and testing its validity. Hence, that knowledge, which is subject to the tests of science are more consistent than the one on heresay (like soothsaying).

... I am only trying to reason out the process of prasnam. LOL.
Until you reason it out, it is outside the realm of science or within the realm of belief.

As if the world is longing and begging for an endorsement from science. Just as reasoning has processes, the other realities also have a process. The attempt is just to understand those processes. Those who are drunk with science dismiss those processes as nonsense and my objection is just to that arrogance.
It is the other way around. People who are intoxicated with the opium of superstition and religion would see anybody who opposes the logic in them as arrogant.

Beliefs are ok, but thrusting them and defining society on the basis of beliefs is supreme arrogance. And perhaps ignorance.

But I also have a healthy disrespect for science because it is not knowledge complete.
science refers to a systematic way of acquiring knowledge and correcting with new variables (that are subject to the same test). It is not knowledge per se but a means of defining what knowledge is, and perhaps refining it.

I have a healthy disrespect for some of these processes and men/women who possess them because they are just inadequate.
Nobody can generalize a "happening" outside the realm of science as a valid basis and argue their case on it. This is the objection. Nature is bountless with all its flavours, and what is not reasoned out cannot have a consistent basis. It will have to remain in the unknown realm until we crawl through the tunnel of science.
 
Realm outside science = unproven. Unproven does not mean non-existant.

Science is a process of acquiring knowledge, and testing its validity. Hence, that knowledge, which is subject to the tests of science are more consistent than the one on heresay (like soothsaying).

Until you reason it out, it is outside the realm of science or within the realm of belief.

It is the other way around. People who are intoxicated with the opium of superstition and religion would see anybody who opposes the logic in them as arrogant.

Beliefs are ok, but thrusting them and defining society on the basis of beliefs is supreme arrogance. And perhaps ignorance.

science refers to a systematic way of acquiring knowledge and correcting with new variables (that are subject to the same test). It is not knowledge per se but a means of defining what knowledge is, and perhaps refining it.

Nobody can generalize a "happening" outside the realm of science as a valid basis and argue their case on it. This is the objection. Nature is bountless with all its flavours, and what is not reasoned out cannot have a consistent basis. It will have to remain in the unknown realm until we crawl through the tunnel of science.

Dear Auh,

Reason alone cannot make science correct. Ultimately science depends on evidence. Those you have faith also may be said to have reasoning behind their faith which is everything happens according to the will of God. How can you refute it as irrational when you do not know whether God exists or not?

Again evidence cannot be everything. I can show that the physical energy itself goes out of reality when under the influence of spiritual energy. How can one trust the evidence then of the physical world?

So Science does not have the privilege to be the sole dispenser of truth. It is a limited way of acquiring knowledge though has practical utility.
 
Th Government of India responded very appropriately to the URI terror strikes. Let us prop up their defensive efforts spiritually in preventing a retaliation from Pakistan and also any terror attack in the future
 
Terror attempts will increasingly fail, Because of our impregnable defense and very very high quality offense , Pak will come to the table for talks and J & K and other problems with Pak will soon be solved
 
Terror attempts will increasingly fail, Because of our impregnable defense and very very high quality offense , Pak will come to the table for talks and J & K and other problems with Pak will soon be solved

Solved by India or by your spirituality?
 
Solved by India or by your spirituality?

Dear Renuka,

I am just making the prediction. If it turns out to be true there is a spiritual element in it. I believe every effort needs the spiritual prop to sustain.
 
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