Cho's Enge Brahmanan serial - Does it project the brahmins cause?

[SuryaKasyapa]

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Sri rvR

a well written concise note.

For quite long time, I am seeing this type of drama going on....

When a discussion on caste,varna, spitting venom on Brahmins , fades away, the vested interest become panicky. Someone from from some corner tries to pick the lost ball and throws to center court again, in the form of a disguised thread.

The planned and planted fringe sitters then pick up and continue their favourite hobby.The serial show is thus going on.....It will never end, because, the vested interest groups are never ready to be convinced ,in anyway. That is their aim.

They go on serving old and decayed wine in new bottles (here a new thread)..

By ignoring the rabble rousers ,we can do more focused functions and discussions.

These type of pushing the ball from sidelines and throwing it to the forward team will go on never ending as it is a sadistic pastime for the throwers.

 

[kunjuppu]

Sri rvR

a well written concise note.

For quite long time, I am seeing this type of drama going on....

When a discussion on caste,varna, spitting venom on Brahmins , fades away, the vested interest become panicky. Someone from from some corner tries to pick the lost ball and throws to center court again, in the form of a disguised thread.

The planned and planted fringe sitters then pick up and continue their favourite hobby.The serial show is thus going on.....It will never end, because, the vested interest groups are never ready to be convinced ,in anyway. That is their aim.

They go on serving old and decayed wine in new bottles (here a new thread)..

As it is indirectly helping the forum and its owner, by contributing more hits. It suit us also, as thus the forum stays afloat.

By ignoring the rabble rousers ,we can do more focused functions and discussions.

These type of pushing the ball from sidelines and throwing it to the forward team will go on never ending as it is a sadistic pastime for the throwers.

surya,

i think it may be better if you could directly address the issues than the issuers. we are a forum, hopefully with some decorum.

innuendos of the nature of your post, i feel, could set bad examples of rude postings.

perhaps you include me in your group of rabble rousers, who though indirectly contributes to fill up praveen's coffers (if this so be true, perhaps, praveen might consider sharing some of his spoils), is also promoting excitement to the forum, which you would rather avoid.

sir, the following statement of yours is a gem, which i wish i had written .. 'These type of pushing the ball from sidelines and throwing it to the forward team will go on never ending as it is a sadistic pastime for the throwers' . having just watched spain defeat portugal, i feel like a portuguese player, who out of frustration, feels outplayed and ends up a mere thrower, and somehow becomes a victim of a spanish sadistic pastime!!

a very long time ago, out of shyness and acute politeness, i used to compose in third person. it took a while for me to understand, how rude it sounded, and a further learning experience, towards my ever moving goal of setting an example of etiquettery, of which i presumed myself to be a leader, only to be taught a few things by folks much younger than me in years, but not in wisdom.

replying to your note, i fear, might force me to a process of unlearning, as i would have to abide by your norms, and address yourself in third person. that would also deny you, a personality and recognition of yourself as a honourable normal breathing human. i have hence decided not to tit for tat, but take the high road, and bore you with a lecture.

to sum up, whether it be rvr, nara, myself, nachi or anyone else, it is their absolute right to pen within the norms of the forum, and perhaps we should all avoid an attitude which my daughter would call 'goody two shoes'. you would notice, that i have not pointed this behaviour at you, but at the world in general, with the hope that the concerned parties, would take the hint, and avoid innuendo postings.

such postings bode ill wind and does nobody any good.

hope you don't mind. let us talk policies and principles, not personalities. god knows there are enough of them around here. thank you.

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

I have been avoiding this thread since it is bound to create heat among people. Has any accepted code of behavior is available for Brahmins to call himself a Brahmin? Each one has his ideas Can this forum suggest any minimum code of conduct for us? I think if & when that is available most of us will be Brahmins by birth only and not by behavior if that code is applied to judge our status. Jambu:boom:

 

[nachi naga]

all one needs to do is to be a brahmin,is claim it and enter in al applications,and keep parrotoing i am brahmin by birth. all will be brahmins totally in no time.

 

[tbs]

hi all,
i born in brahmin family,,,according to GOVT OF INDIA...im a brahmin
by birth,,,,even i cant scheduled caste/tribe......according to my
high school certificate... im brahmin.....its a chance...not my choice..
i born brahmin...i die as brahmin.....nobody can change my caste tag.....


regars
tbs

 

[sangom]

When a discussion on caste,varna, spitting venom on Brahmins , fades away, the vested interest become panicky. Someone from from some corner tries to pick the lost ball and throws to center court again, in the form of a disguised thread.

The planned and planted fringe sitters then pick up and continue their favourite hobby.The serial show is thus going on.....It will never end, because, the vested interest groups are never ready to be convinced ,in anyway. That is their aim.

They go on serving old and decayed wine in new bottles (here a new thread)..

Dear Suryakasyapa,

Normally I would not have entered into a discussion at this stage, but for your sentence, "Someone from from some corner tries to pick the lost ball and throws to center court again, in the form of a disguised thread." You will notice that this thread was started by me and the reason for my starting this thread was also stated by me as clearly as I could. It is my confirmed opinion that Cho's serial is doing a great disservice to the Brahmin community as a whole, and particularly, to TBs because it shows the central character Ashok as the example of a true brahmin and all of us will therefore look a greedy, unprincipled lot in the eyes of all those who want to make fun of us as a community.

There was no intention in my mind to "pick the lost ball and throw it again in to the center court", as you say. In fact there is every reason to suspect the opposite of what you say, viz., that there is a clique here behind this forum who would like to live a sequestered life as Tamil brahmins of their own definition and imagination, but would not like any fresh air coming in. If, therefore, I now say that there is such a clique which wants only such people who will write those things they want to hear (that is normal) in this forum and start viewing everything else with paranoia, that, if they find anything which they suspect (and they tend to suspect every little thing) as vested interest against them and employ their handymen to write nasty and offending remarks against persons, will it not look as true as your words?

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

The identification of Brahmin itself seems to be elusive( except Birth accident) Then what is this Brahmins"s Cause we want to be projected in Cho"s Serial? Clear answers as Brahmis cause enumerated one by one please Jambu :der:

 

[RVR]

Kunjuppu ji,

As long as we hold Indian Citizenship, caste is assigned to us which we cannot ignore.

Being a Brahmin is a disadvantage in some places. At the same time, it is definitely an advantage at some other places.

Most of us holding Indian Citizenship are living with this phenomena without having any choice at our end.

I deliberately avoided this thread till yesterday. When Prof Nara wrote few names including me as brahmins, I was forced to enter this thread and reply to his posting.

Naturally others whose names are mentioned will also reply. Surya Kasyapa has replied in his own way.

I wish we concentrate more on productive work rather than discussing unwanted things.

Cho is prolonging the Serial as it has better viewer rating. But I earnestly feel he has nothing more to say. I am not watching this serial but I am seeing this viewed in most of our community members homes.

I earnestly feel nothing is achieved in this thread. Definitely as per `varna' system, most of us including me are not brahmins.

We, Indian citizens, are just living with the caste tag. The caste tag has recognition from Government of India and state governments. We don't have any option to remove the tag. We have all learnt to live with this tag. Let us continue in the future also.

Unless Government policy changes to remove caste tag, there is no necessity for us to change the tag. All our actions are influenced by Government policy to a great extent.

Heated arguments are not going to do good for any body.

All the best

 

[sangom]

The identification of Brahmin itself seems to be elusive( except Birth accident) Then what is this Brahmins"s Cause we want to be projected in Cho"s Serial? Clear answers as Brahmis cause enumerated one by one please Jambu :der:

IMO, whatever adversely affects our conditions of living or our image in other community's eyes will be against the Brahmin's cause; those which are of the opposite category will be for the Brahmin's cause. We need not go into the identification of brahmin, let it be by birth alone.

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

OK I understand. Should we cosiderd my brother still a Brahmin? - Brahmin by birth but married to an Anglo Indian living in Melborne . Non of his Brahminical taste Like Carnatic music etc has changed food habits adopted to environmental condition but still likes the basic Brahmin Samayal His religion might have changed I Have not specifically asked him about this But the wedding was a church wedding. Now if is religion has changed to Catholic what do you brand him? Catholic Brahmin? I understand this ஜாதி முத்திரை cannot be erased & no criteria suggested or available to be Brahmin except Birth accidents. Do we have the mandate to create Varna system in Christianity Will that be acceptable to Christians? Jambu :dizzy:

 

[sangom]

OK I understand. Should we cosiderd my brother still a Brahmin? - Brahmin by birth but married to an Anglo Indian living in Melborne . Non of his Brahminical taste Like Carnatic music etc has changed food habits adopted to environmental condition but still likes the basic Brahmin Samayal His religion might have changed I Have not specifically asked him about this But the wedding was a church wedding. Now if is religion has changed to Catholic what do you brand him? Catholic Brahmin? I understand this ஜாதி முத்திரை cannot be erased & no criteria suggested or available to be Brahmin except Birth accidents. Do we have the mandate to create Varna system in Christianity Will that be acceptable to Christians? Jambu :dizzy:

I am not a pontiff like the Kanchi/Sringeri Acharyas, to give a ruling on the point. But I will cite one or two instances. The son of a very very prominent and religiously-in-the-forefront TB loved and married a Christian girl. I don't know whether a Church marriage was conducted. But she has been accepted fully into TB community. She wears "madisar" pudavai on special occasions, they live in the midst of TBs.

The daughter of an ordinary TB married a Christian. The couple live with their in-laws. The marriage was conducted in a church and the son-in-law has turned a pure vegetarian. He is not very religious but visits temples during holiday trips etc., along with the rest of the family.

Going by the above real-life examples, your brother continues to be a brahmin IMO; his wife may or may not opt to become a brahmin.

Till the late 1960's we used to see matrimonial ads in Bombay papers citing "Goan Brahmin Christian" as the community. I don't know whether it continues now.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

I am happy that I have been identified as a Brahmin. This is a label I was borne with and I will die with that label. It does not matter whether I like it or not. There is no way one can change one's caste. Even a Communist of decades standing is not able to get rid of the Caste identity.

There are advantages and disadvantages. But in my case on the whole I have only benefited though I could not reach the very top position in my job because I am a Brahmin. Then life has its own ups and downs. Now that I am far away from Tamil Nadu, the tag attached to me is South Indian Brahmin. But people have almost forgotten the South Indian part of it. But the Brahmin tag is never forgotten. That is the reality in India. We have to live with it.

About Cho's serial I do not think it is a fair representation of the Tamil Brahmin community. Stereo typed representation. I feel Cho is using this to do Pravachanam. Most of the time he is doing the talking. His own interpretation of Puranas et.al quoting Sanskrit verses. I do not see it regularly because I do not like his interpretation. Cho is trying to be a conformist. I am surprised.

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

Sangom

யதார்தம் I see in cases you have presented My brother is 80 year old He is a widower 2 of his sons in US he is with another son in Melbourne. He visits us regularly every year travels alone His habits I should say theosophical converging toward brahminism. He will be here this December also Because This is his 80th Year. All of us will definitely have a gala time to celebrate that mile stone He had a By pass decade ago. But suppose if he dies here in India should we cremate or bury will there not be any administrative objection in Adyar crematorium if he has changed his religion. will the church help us to give him a decent burial . His wife was buried in Royapurm Cemetery since they were living in Arathon Road. I still remember when he called me on phone to announce Collen Srinivasns" death that happened on Varalakshmi Vritham day "குடுத்தது வச்சவ! நல்லநாள்ல சுமங்கலியா பேயிட்டா " We all my brothers and sister daily spend time talking in Google talk sharing all the வம்பு He calls himself உசுவா (உலகம் சுற்றும் வாலிபன் ) To day he is in Perth to spend 2 weeks with my another brother elder to him He saw me through all my eduction till P.G. since I lost my father when I was 2 years. Jambu

 

[AnanthaNarayanan]

If brahmin by birth is a brahmin ...

What about the person, who is associated or entered to a brahmin family, as adopted son or daughter ? Or sil /dil

if sons / daughters are adopted....why not dil or sil ?

Imho........ Thay are also true brahmins only.

What will be the stand of naveena swayamvaram ...........on adopted son and daughters .( even it out this thread)

 

[sangom]

Sangom

யதார்தம் I see in cases you have presented My brother is 80 year old He is a widower 2 of his sons in US he is with another son in Melbourne. He visits us regularly every year travels alone His habits I should say theosophical converging toward brahminism. He will be here this December also Because This is his 80th Year. All of us will definitely have a gala time to celebrate that mile stone He had a By pass decade ago. But suppose if he dies here in India should we cremate or bury will there not be any administrative objection in Adyar crematorium if he has changed his religion. will the church help us to give him a decent burial . His wife was buried in Royapurm Cemetery since they were living in Arathon Road. I still remember when he called me on phone to announce Collen Srinivasns" death that happened on Varalakshmi Vritham day "குடுத்தது வச்சவ! நல்லநாள்ல சுமங்கலியா பேயிட்டா " We all my brothers and sister daily spend time talking in Google talk sharing all the வம்பு He calls himself உசுவா (உலகம் சுற்றும் வாலிபன் ) To day he is in Perth to spend 2 weeks with my another brother elder to him He saw me through all my eduction till P.G. since I lost my father when I was 2 years. Jambu

Dear Jambunathan,

I wish your elder brother long life and look forward to his hundred years' celebrations.

As far as I know the Government creamatoria accept any (dead) body but your brother's in-laws and their people might have their own views and they may insist on that view to be complied with.

If we try to dig deep into any religion and soar high enough to have an aerial point of view, it will not make any difference whether a dead body is disposed off in one particular way or another. It matters only at the starting stage of understanding.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

surya,

i think it may be better if you could directly address the issues than the issuers. we are a forum, hopefully with some decorum.

sir, the following statement of yours is a gem, which i wish i had written .. 'These type of pushing the ball from sidelines and throwing it to the forward team will go on never ending as it is a sadistic pastime for the throwers' .

.............................................................

hope you don't mind. let us talk policies and principles, not personalities. god knows there are enough of them around here. thank you.

Sri Kunjuppu,

Before seeing this post of yours, getting a reference from another post from you in a different thread, I have made a reply post.

I always appreciate your mature suggestions, and never felt shy to admit for any slip if occurred and pointed out.

In fact, when I make a third party indirect type of reference in the discussion, it is only to take out the personal pinning and to avoid any hurt to anybody. The focus there is to the essence of the matter differed therein. I have seen this approach by public speakers especially politicians and public personalities, and also in journalistic usage.

The reference to the football was a natural effect of the current international fervour of football.

Greetings.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Dear Suryakasyapa,

Normally I would not have entered into a discussion at this stage, but for your sentence, "Someone from from some corner tries to pick the lost ball and throws to center court again, in the form of a disguised thread." You will notice that this thread was started by me and the reason for my starting this thread was also stated by me as clearly as I could.

Sri Sangom,

My post quoted by you was actually not meant against your thread. It was a sequel to msg no23 in the thread. As I did not quote that in my note, this assumption had come.

The re-introduction again of a topic in verbatim by a longstanding member was not necessary, when earlier ones were beaten and pounded million times, and the present thread was its way going on.

These type of reruns do not serve any positive purpose .


Greetings

 

[nachi naga]

Sri Sangom,

My post quoted by you was actually not meant against your thread. It was a sequel to msg no23 in the thread. As I did not quote that in my note, this assumption had come.

The re-introduction again of a topic in verbatim by a longstanding member was not necessary, when earlier ones were beaten and pounded million times, and the present thread was its way going on.

These type of reruns do not serve any positive purpose .


Greetings

sk

i agree.many ppl query.all they need to do use our search option.so many hits pop up.almost all topics are in archives.despite that ppl keep on prodding on the beaten path.of course many are gone from olden days or shud it be golden days.many,i believe got banned like the taliban islamic style ,you are another gem poster good going,enjoy your posts a lot.

 

[Subbaraman]

Cho Ramasamy is not the mouth piece of Tamil Brahmins.

 

[jayamani]

part II of the enge brahmanan serial ended today. Cho, was at his usual best in the last part and his final speech was brilliant. :hat::hail:

 

[kunjuppu]

part II of the enge brahmanan serial ended today. Cho, was at his usual best in the last part and his final speech was brilliant. :hat::hail:

jayamani,

brilliant, i think, is an overused term in our community, which appears to be full of 'brilliant' folks overflowing with brilliance.

can you please explain, what cho did in the last part that was brilliant?

fyi, i have watched cho dramas in the seventies. he was a great creator and writer of plays, which blended comedy with social issues of middle class (ie brahmins).

his political stands have not produced any one good, even to the brahmin community. he has antagonised every ruling clique. he thinks he is a rule above everyone. so, what good has he done?

 

[jayamani]

Kunjuppu,

To me, Brilliant is an understatement of what Cho says and writes. I would say i am moderate in my praise of him. Being fortunte to have followed his magazine and annual day functions, i am of the firm opinion that he does not mince words in what he feels right. What he was trying to impress upon is the even if some one tries to follow or becomes a varna brahmin, he will only be ridiculed and with the degeneration of values, it is not possible. This he has elucidated many a time in the series. His quotes of various scriptures were highly informative to me. He also mentioned clearly that he has taken the help of various books and scholars and he just presented it.

He has also written a masterpiece Hindu Maha Samudhram wherein he has covered so wide range of subjects with references which were enlightening to me. He had tried to disprove many a false notion about Hinduism and the various facets attached to that. Even the complex of issues, he has conveyed in simple way with his arguments also. I respect him for that.
He writes his opinion and his views in his magazine and he leaves it to the readers to mull over it and take a decision. He always ends his arguements with words,en karuthu.
His direct question and answer session with readers in annual day functions is quite unique and he is open to any question on his views and he replies to each and every one of them.
He has played his part in politics and he is not bothered about public accepting or rejecting his views. If his judgement on a particular issue is wrong, he is bold enoughn to admit that and not many have the guts to accept that. I feel he is always independent in his views. A honest and straight forward person.

When he was the Rajyasabha MP, he detailed all the works/activities he has undertaken in his magazine in respect of MP fund.

One can have difference of opinion in his views or actions. But to me, he is a brilliant and sharp analyst and communcating his views in a fearless manner and making the readers to think about issues. He has been honest to the core.

In one of his plays, there is a dialogue. "Confusion comes to those who think and our society never gets confused". I hope I can call this brilliant.

 

[nachi naga]

jayamani,

ch's tughlak is super magazine.not only that enge brahmanan is truly a nice serial.as to what he has done for brahmin community,i know as a tenant,he was a good landlord.decent man,knowledgeable ,witty,wisecrack,brilliant intellect.dunno why kunjuppu has such wit,when it comes to us tambramhs.i guess we are witty in our ownways,sometimes its appreciated and at time infuriating.its all in one head finally.

 

[Nara]

.....One can have difference of opinion in his views or actions. But to me, he is a brilliant and sharp analyst ....

Dear Shri jayamani,

Cho is definitely a brilliant guy alright, but look at the message he is peddling:

YouTube - Engey Brahmanan - Cho Explanation - Clip 5

(In this clip he covers his back side with a little praise for those women who fit the male dominated norms, but his main point is women need to be protected by men.)
​

 

[tbs]

Dear Shri jayamani,

Cho is definitely a brilliant guy alright, but look at the message he is peddling:

YouTube - Engey Brahmanan - Cho Explanation - Clip 5

(In this clip he covers his back side with a little praise for those women who fit the male dominated norms, but his main point is women need to be protected by men.)
​

hi Nara sir,
according to manusmriti,

PITA RAKSHATI KAUMARE,BHARTA RAKSHATI YOUVANE,
PUTRO RAKSHATI VARDHAKYE, NA STRI SWANTANTRYAM ARHATI..

this is cho quoting....the same way he says....YATRA NARYSTHU
PUJYAANTHE, THATRA DEVATHAH RAMANTHE......so whar he says
is correct according to manu niti...

regards
tbs