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China annexes 60 square km of India in Ladakh as simmering tensions erupt between two superpowers

As patriotic citizens of this country let us do our duty first instead of blaming others. Iyest Sir, your slogan " China ,Quit India" appealed to me. Let all Indians boycott China and boycott its Goods. Already the movement has started and it is spreading. China has started feeling its impact. It may turn into a Global movement also. When Gandhiji called, as part of swadeshi movement to Boycott British Goods, people thronged on the roads to support him wearing Khadi.
When peace talks are going on, and after reaching an understanding that both sides will keep peace, suddenly, unexpectatly coming and attacking with nail studded clubs and stones attached to rods is inhuman and atrocious. 20 of our brave jawans lost their lives. Their sacrifice should not go in vain. At the grass root level let us rise up. I appeal to all members of this Forum to declare through this Forum their resolve to BOYCOTT CHINESE GOODS, however valuable, cheaper or essential it may be. ( if you really love this country). Let us count how many are responding.
 
OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
As patriotic citizens of this country let us do our duty first instead of blaming others. Iyest Sir, your slogan " China ,Quit India" appealed to me. Let all Indians boycott China and boycott its Goods. Already the movement has started and it is spreading. China has started feeling its impact. It may turn into a Global movement also. When Gandhiji called, as part of swadeshi movement to Boycott British Goods, people thronged on the roads to support him wearing Khadi.
When peace talks are going on, and after reaching an understanding that both sides will keep peace, suddenly, unexpectatly coming and attacking with nail studded clubs and stones attached to rods is inhuman and atrocious. 20 of our brave jawans lost their lives. Their sacrifice should not go in vain. At the grass root level let us rise up. I appeal to all members of this Forum to declare through this Forum their resolve to BOYCOTT CHINESE GOODS, however valuable, cheaper or essential it may be. ( if you really love this country). Let us count how many are responding.
Are you not counting your chicken before eggs are hatched? The USA has been trying but it has not happened yet.
 

tbs

Well-known member
As patriotic citizens of this country let us do our duty first instead of blaming others. Iyest Sir, your slogan " China ,Quit India" appealed to me. Let all Indians boycott China and boycott its Goods. Already the movement has started and it is spreading. China has started feeling its impact. It may turn into a Global movement also. When Gandhiji called, as part of swadeshi movement to Boycott British Goods, people thronged on the roads to support him wearing Khadi.
When peace talks are going on, and after reaching an understanding that both sides will keep peace, suddenly, unexpectatly coming and attacking with nail studded clubs and stones attached to rods is inhuman and atrocious. 20 of our brave jawans lost their lives. Their sacrifice should not go in vain. At the grass root level let us rise up. I appeal to all members of this Forum to declare through this Forum their resolve to BOYCOTT CHINESE GOODS, however valuable, cheaper or essential it may be. ( if you really love this country). Let us count how many are responding.
hi

i agreed some part....now world is global economy....even though USA is world super power in economy...

still it depends on chinese goods....even matchbox/ or even USA flags are MADE IN CHINA....becoz

cheaper and quality....if we want really....MAKE IN INDIA concept cheaper/good quality than china....

chinese manufacturing huge demand in the world.....we can reduce some part...but some rules

followed by WTO...boycott china should not by just SLOGAN....in ground many goods cheaper

to the consumers....we are best agricultural country in the world...we can export many things....

in all medicine raw materials are from china....can WE MAKE IN INDIA in that price?....
 

Iyest

Active member
As patriotic citizens of this country let us do our duty first instead of blaming others. Iyest Sir, your slogan " China ,Quit India" appealed to me. Let all Indians boycott China and boycott its Goods.

That is the least we can do. Some have been doing it for a few years now and we ask even shops(especially cell phone shops) why they are selling Chinese products. But avoiding Chinese goods is only a small part.

There is no 'instead' here. We also have a right to ask our elected representatives what they have done over 60 years other than surrender human lives and vast areas to China. They owe an explanation. Not to just one, but to at least 3 generations now. I strongly suspect that there are Chinese agents or Chinese funds in every political party and in major private firms.

[/QUOTE]

When peace talks are going on, and after reaching an understanding that both sides will keep peace, suddenly, unexpectatly coming and attacking

'Suddenly' and 'unexpectedly' are only excuses given by failed politicians and incompetent intelligence and Army officers. Earlier I had listed major loss of territories during the past 6 decades. Because we never learn we are always 'surprised' and everything is 'unexpected'.

The recent incursions took place after more than a month of preparation by China including moving thousands of troops and equipment such as trucks and bulldozers. After spending millions in defense satellites and air reconnisance we still could not detect it. Same failure happened in Kargil where incursions were happenning for two months before our 'intellegence' woke up.

The most sickening aspect is that there has been no accountability at any level. How many army and intelligence officers were court martialled or even dismissed from service after Kargil? None. Does it happen in any other country after the loss of around 600 soldiers to reclaim the area?

I am afraid the same is going to happen this time as well. No politician, bureaucrat, or army official is going to be held responsible. There will be a lot of empty talk about 'not losing an inch', 'army will give a befitting reply' etc etc.

I have heard all of these empty words ever since the humiliating defeat in 1962. Nothing changes. And nothing will ever change unless we learn to fix accountability.
 

ashok68

Active member
Manmohan Singh for whatever reason did not even raise the matter with China at that time! Nor was there any demand from anybody to make the report public or debate the issue in Parliament. Those who are old enough to remember 1962 will recall that we had fiery debates for a few years after the humiliating defeat. A really scary possibility is that China is funding all our major parties and our media. Then they can easily define and shape any debate. Even Anil Ambani was a victim of Chinese loans that he could not repay. Let us hope that they have not penetrated so deeply into our society.



This explains more vividly:

The PM pointed out the difference between India and China and the similarities between India and the US. Singh said “GDP alone” could not be the benchmark of a country’s progress. “There are certain values and principles too. China’s economic growth has been superior to us. But India does not want to adopt the Chinese model. We have our own model where human rights, religious freedom, democracy and multiculturalism are appreciated. Reforms in a democratic set-up are far more effective,” Singh said, answering questions at CFR.

Source: https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ng-manmohan/story-szGhj2iTULLx8XWEnX4UaL.html

Why rake up 1962 war memories now… which are nothing but histories thrown in the dust-bin…?

What way it is going to help……?

Things have now drastically changed.

We have a different Government now with matured approach

As both the countries have nuclear weapons, there is remote possibility of big fights. Each one has defence armed with the state-of-the-art weapons system.

While one enjoys geographical advantage the other has the political advantage which are prone to swing.

And the disputed areas that exist have been patrolled by both sides. This has been recognised and agreements signed to avoid confrontations.

There may be skirmishes…..and the leaders know better and are capable of handling with their rich experience and based on foreign policy.

Our forces are doing what they have to do to protect the country whether it is deployment, action or counter-action.

It is responsibility of the Opposition to express solidarity in times of crisis.

Let us try to support the Government’s stand, initiative and action.
 

ashok68

Active member
Our reported national “loss” of territory was purely based on maps which was drawn by ourselves, and not accepted by the Chinese,

As believed by some, in fact, if one take the Chinese definition of LAC, then it can be argued we have actually won territory, not lost!


Nepal continues to parrot China's script claims 'India Occupied Territory'

First Nepal's map-change provocation now Nepal toes Beijing's line
(Source: https://www.timesnownews.com/videos...-script-claims-india-occupied-territory/63490)


No one entered India, no land lost, Army, Navy, Air Force fully prepared to defend India: Read PM Modi’s firm message to China


PM Modi assured that the Indian Armed Forces– Navy, Army and Air Force are all prepared and competent to protect the country. "I am also assuring you that our army is leaving no stone unturned to protect the country. Deployment, Action, Counter Action, Our Army, Navy and Air Force are doing what they have to, to protect the country," PM Modi said.

………………………………


PM Modi on Friday issued a stern message to neighbouring China saying that India wants peace and friendship but it won’t compromise on its sovereignty.

Read more at:

China destroyed most of its own ancient culture in its Maoists cultural revolution. It also destroyed Tibetan culture as part of its thirst for conquest. It now aims to do the strategy at Ladakh, Arunachal Pradesh, Nepal, Bhutan and Sikkim the five fingers.

India's borders being secured.

Better days will come.
 
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Iyest

Active member
Why rake up 1962 war memories now… which are nothing but histories thrown in the dust-bin…?

What way it is going to help……?

You are correct. We have thrown every inconvenient truth into the dustbin. No wonder that we have not learnt anything from our defeats and will continue to be defeated.

Things have now drastically changed.

Please share with us. Then how come China is able to walk in anywhere along the LAC even now just like in 1962?

We have a different Government now with matured approach

That is only a claim. Anybody can make such claims. What is the reality on the ground?


As both the countries have nuclear weapons, there is remote possibility of big fights. Each one has defence armed with the state-of-the-art weapons system.

Exactly. There are no major wars, we have nuclear weapons etc. But without any major war China has been able to just walk in and grab hundreds of square kilometres, divert the flow of water in rivers etc. China is doing it regularly. What is the use of these weapons for which we have spent billions? A minister once asked 'Are our weapons only for Diwali?' It certainly seems that way.


And the disputed areas that exist have been patrolled by both sides. This has been recognised and agreements signed to avoid confrontations.

Exactly. But the 'disputed areas' are shrinking and becoming Chinese areas. That is good strategy by China. Until May, the area between Finger 1 and Finger 8 was disputed and our patrols could go till Finger 8. Not any more. We can only reach and patrol until Finger 4. The area beyond it has now become part of China.

There may be skirmishes…..and the leaders know better and are capable of handling with their rich experience and based on foreign policy.

True for Chinese leaders. Not for us. Our only experience has been in defeats and loss of territories.


Let us try to support the Government’s stand, initiative and action.

True. But in a democracy, the government also needs to reflect the will of the people. I don't think the people of India want China to walk in anywhere and grab land at will.
 

Iyest

Active member
Our reported national “loss” of territory was purely based on maps which was drawn by ourselves, and not accepted by the Chinese,

Great. China claims the whole of Ladakh, Arunachal Pradesh, and Sikkim. They have not accepted them as part of India. So even if China occupies them tomorrow, we have not lost anything.

As believed by some, in fact, if one take the Chinese definition of LAC, then it can be argued we have actually won territory, not lost!

Yes. We have gained Ladakh, Arunachal, and Sikkim by China's definition. Soon we may win Delhi, Mumbai etc. as soon as China claims them and redraws their maps.


India's borders being secured.

By China's maps.

Better days will come.

No doubt.
 

ashok68

Active member
We have thrown every inconvenient truth into the dustbin. No wonder that we have not learnt anything from our defeats and will continue to be defeated.

IMO the present Government is likely to teach lessons to our neighbour. Gone are the days of learning lessons....it is NOT definitely 1962.

Line of control is just a position is just a position… in the demarcation of what separates the countries. From the length of LAC itself, the two sides disagree – India considers it to be 3488 km. long while China thinks it is only around 2000 km. There are many articles that deal with the nuances of what constitutes the LAC and so on. Each country may have its own version of facts and claims.

Each one is arguing for decades over territory in the high altitude, largely uninhabited region.

Each one accuses the other of deliberately crossing the border on numerous occasions

The cause, of course, for the confrontation came after a small development of India laying a new road along the LAC which dives the sides.

When there is a visible progress, it is natural the neighbouring country bringing out obstacles, bottlenecks, impediments, etc against our development.

Times have changed, we have leaders committed to achieve progress, results and betterment in all aspects.

Hope the tension in the border will be defused soon.

These are all in fact, strategy of war psychology adopted by nations to overpower the other.

My friend, of course, you are entitled to your opinion which may be far from truth and may also differ from actual ground reality.

Anyway thanks for the response.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S
India Is Building Border Roads Faster Than Before; This Could Be One Reason Behind China’s Aggressive Posture Along The LAC

India is building border roads faster than it was until a few years ago.

India’s improving infrastructure could be one of the reasons behind China’s aggressive posture along the Line of Actual Control in Ladakh.


 
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ashok68

Active member
The period of Jawaharlal Nehru and Krishna Menon has now changed.....

We have leaders with conviction and confidence.

'Snapped Necks, Smashed Faces Beyond Recognition': How Indian Soldiers Killed Chinese PLA Troops After CO Fell


In the counter-attack following the killing of their commanding officer Colonel B Santosh Babu by Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) troops in Ladakh's Galwan valley, the jawans of 16 Bihar regiment, using the most "primitive fighting methods", snapped the necks of at least 18 PLA troops and smashed their faces beyond recognition, reports Deccan Chronicle.

The jawans of 16 Bihar were reportedly joined by the 'Ghatak' troops. Together, they "unleashed a reign of terror, unheard in modern military history", the report said.

The PLA had a tough time handling the bodies of its soldiers, many of whose limbs were broken or severed, the report said citing inputs gathered from multiple sources.

Bodies of the slain PLA soldiers were scattered all over the ridge and nearby gorge.

According to the report, the "primitive fighting methods" by the Indian soldiers using stones, bayonets and sticks suggest they were merciless in their attack the moment their commanding officer fell.

Launching a counterattack, 60 Indian troops charged towards the PLA personnel.

As the word spread about Colonel's death, the 16 Bihar men were said to have joined by the Ghatak troops.

The Ghatak commandoes are experts in close-quarter battle and spearhead assaults ahead of the battallion, the report said.

Both, 16 Bihar men and Ghatak troops together chased down at least 18 PLA troops.

"Some had their necks dangling from their bodies, while those whose faces were smashed with stones were beyond recognition," sources were quoted in the report as saying.

………………………………

As they Avenged the death of their CO, the soldiers were chanting war-cries, they added.

The attack and counter-attack went on for over four hours. Few Indian troops snatched swords and rods from Chinese soldiers and used them against the enemy.

According to the sources quoted in the report, many PLA troops tried to escape and were chased by Indian soldiers. However, the chasing Indian troops ended up in PLA custody as their numbers multiplied.

These soldiers were among those who were released on Friday (19 June), the report said.


Read more at:
 
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ashok68

Active member
Exaggerated and untenable claims of my friend..... are NOT acceptable..... I am tired tired of such ஒப்பாரி and பிலாக்கணம் postings. Parroting the failures of earlier regimes.

Every country has its own shortfalls ...failures, etc

Every country has corruption

And every country has a sad history of losing a war/battle

Let us be optimistic and repose faith on our leaders

Let us unit and support our Government.

We will overcome such crisis.

Don't grieve for what has been lost and dream for a colourful tomorrow.... it is still possible with will power of every citizen.

Irresponsible insinuations or utterances needs to be strictly avoided.

Acts of premature chest-thumping will be exploited by inimical elements

Already some of the biased medias for want of TRP rating telecast discussions which will have adverse effect in the minds of general public and international opinion makers and thus provide fuel for Anti_India rhetoric.

It is time for extend support...unconditional support.

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Position on Galwan Valley has been 'historically clear': MEA responds to China

The Ministry of External Affairs has said that the position with regard to the Galwan Valley area has been "historically clear" and added that attempts by the Chinese side to now advance exaggerated and untenable claims with regard to LAC there are "not acceptable".


……………………………………………………


However, the Chinese side departed from these understandings in respect of the LAC in the Galwan Valley area and sought to erect structures just across the LAC. When this attempt was foiled, Chinese troops took violent actions on 15 June 2020 that directly resulted in casualties, MEA added.

"External Affairs Minister (EAM) and the Foreign Minister of China, H.E. Mr. Wang Yi, had a conversation on 17 June 2020 wherein EAM conveyed our protest in the strongest terms on the events leading up to and on the violent face-off on 15 June 2020. He firmly rejected the unfounded allegations made by the Chinese side and the misrepresentation of the understandings reached between the Senior Commanders. He also underlined that it was for China to reassess its actions and take corrective steps," the MEA further stated.


According to the MEA, the two Ministers also agreed that the overall situation would be handled in a responsible manner, and that both sides would implement the disengagement understanding of June 6 sincerely.

The two sides are in regular touch and early meetings of military and diplomatic mechanisms are currently being discussed, MEA said.

"We expect that the Chinese side will sincerely follow the understanding reached between the Foreign Ministers to ensure peace and tranquility in the border areas, which is so essential for the overall development of our bilateral relations," the ministry said.


Read more at:

 
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Iyest

Active member
IMO the present Government is likely to teach lessons to our neighbour. Gone are the days of learning lessons....it is NOT definitely 1962.

"Likely" means speculation. Not a reality. You cannot equate opinion and speculation with the ground level reality.

As I said earlier, many of us will be delighted IF it ever becomes a reality.


Hope the tension in the border will be defused soon.

It will automatically be defused because we will do nothing to challenge China about our loss of territory. China has accomplished what it wanted and there is no need to fight anymore for now.

These are all in fact, strategy of war psychology adopted by nations to overpower the other.

When did we last overpower China? Is there a single example?

My friend, of course, you are entitled to your opinion which may be far from truth and may also differ from actual ground reality.

See I gave very little of opinion. I simply stated the truth (supported by at least a dozen satellite images over a 2 week period that I examined) and asked some questions.

Agreed that they are uncomfortable questions. I have seen at least 3 generations avoid facing these questions.

But all uncomfortable questions must be faced. And addressed.

That is how a strong nation is built. We have not even started.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
"Likely" means speculation. Not a reality. You cannot equate opinion and speculation with the ground level reality.



That is how a strong nation is built. We have not even started.

Thanks for the reality check.
There is a lot of chest-thumping in retreat.
 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
Among other questions, Sibal alleged that the government was in denial of Chinese “intrusions” as “confirmed” by army generals and satellite imagery and sought to know the reason for the denials.

“Despite statements of experts, army generals & satellite imagery depicting Chinese intrusion into Pangong Tso Lake up to 8 kms, construction of 60 permanent structures & occupation up to Finger4, why is the Govt denying Chinese transgression?,” Sibal asked in of the five questions.

“Until the Chinese retreat and status quo ante is restored, our Government should not let up or appear to cede any part of these territories to the Chinese,” he said, before adding that China’s “brazen transgressions” into India’s territory cannot be accepted and India’s territorial integrity cannot be allowed to be compromised in any circumstances.

In one of his other four questions directed at the government and the prime minister, Sibal asked, “Isn’t the statement of the PM an affront to the valour & supreme sacrifice of Col B.Santosh Babu and 19 Jawans who sought to evict the Chinese from our territory in Galwan Valley? Does the Govt mean that their sacrifice was in vain?”

 

Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
The memorandum of understanding (MoU) also provides the two parties the opportunity to consult each other on important bilateral, regional and international developments.

The fact that China, though aware of the recent developments in India, decided to go ahead and sign this document shows it is trying to build a relationship with the Congress, and the Nehru-Gandhi family in particular, that goes beyond the UPA government.

Is this reflected in the way the Gandhis are reacting in the present Indo Chinese border tension?


 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
The memorandum of understanding (MoU) also provides the two parties the opportunity to consult each other on important bilateral, regional and international developments.

The fact that China, though aware of the recent developments in India, decided to go ahead and sign this document shows it is trying to build a relationship with the Congress, and the Nehru-Gandhi family in particular, that goes beyond the UPA government.

Is this reflected in the way the Gandhis are reacting in the present Indo Chinese border tension?



What a sham!!!!!
This post refers to an article dated:
Indo-Asian News ServiceBeijingAugust 7, 2008 UPDATED: August 7, 2008 19:03 IST.
Then again I do not know the authenticity of the original post.
 

Iyest

Active member
The memorandum of understanding (MoU) also provides the two parties the opportunity to consult each other on important bilateral, regional and international developments.


Not to offend supporters of any political party. But over the decades I have found that most politicians are scumbags.

The Chinese Parties of India have always supported China from the 1962 conflict onwards including the latest clash last week. Below, I have provided the statements made by these Chinese agents at the all party meeting a few days back.


"CPI's D Raja said "we need to resist US efforts to drag us into their alliance" and CPI(M)'s Sitaram Yechuri stressed on the principles of Panchsheel." Panchsheel in response to the Chinese killings and land grab!



The Congress has lost the most territory and there has not been a single term where China has not been able to occupy land. Between 2004 and 2014 China occupied nearly 600 sq km according to estimates. Manmohan Singh did not even have the courage to bring it up with China. The Shyam Saran report was put in cold storage.

But then why did the opposition parties not raise the issue either? They too were happy to let it go. And everyone knows that no politician does anything without getting some benefits.

This only indicates that by 2013 China had spread its influence far and wide. Every party was receiving funds. And nobody was going to take any action that will put their funding at risk.

Any surprise that even former PM Deve Gowda warned about nationalism and banning Chinese imports just a few days back?

Politicians are not going to do much. People must start by taking actions themselves in the economic area.
 

Iyest

Active member
China's mouthpiece the Peoples Daily is now getting worried with the boycott China movement in India. They are hoping that the mood is temporary and will change and go back to business as usual soon.

Let us hope the people will keep the movement strong forever. China must pay for the loss of lives and land over the past six decades.

 
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prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
China and India's latest border dispute may have mainly involved scuffles and troop maneuvers on the ground, but it has been all-out war in the respective countries' media.

Tensions have been growing in the Himalayas along one of the world's longest land borders, with New Delhi and Beijing both accusing the other of overstepping the Line of Actual Control (LAC) that separates the two. The territory has long been disputed, erupting into numerous minor conflicts and diplomatic spats since a bloody war between the countries in 1962.

On Saturday, military leaders met at the border to "peacefully resolve the situation in the border areas," according to a statement from India's foreign ministry. Even today, just what occurred on the ground in the highly militarized region remains unclear -- in part because the main body of this distinctly 21st-century conflict has so far mostly played out through propaganda, strategic leaks and aggressive posturing in the media.
For now, outright aggression is confined to the media. But with tensions running hot despite the efforts of military figures Saturday, the likelihood of this problem going away soon seems highly unlikely.

 
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