Caste as Culture

[sdharma]

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I have seen here many an American born T.B's doing caste bashing, like missionaries.Will you please stop this for the sake of the well being of our own community.Why cant we consider Caste as a Culture? How can we disown our ancient Vedic caste identity. Lets follow our Sanathanadharma.

 

[nachi naga]

re

I have seen here many an American born T.B's doing caste bashing, like missionaries.Will you please stop this for the sake of the well being of our own community.Why cant we consider Caste as a Culture? How can we disown our ancient Vedic caste identity. Lets follow our Sanathanadharma.

sdharma,

i second your opinion,tathasthu

nachi naga.

 

[tbs]

I have seen here many an American born T.B's doing caste bashing, like missionaries.Will you please stop this for the sake of the well being of our own community.Why cant we consider Caste as a Culture? How can we disown our ancient Vedic caste identity. Lets follow our Sanathanadharma.

hi sdharma.,
i agree with u...today i attended a christian school in USA ..
they like to learn culture/dharma of sanatan dharma..they
understood and accepted caste a part of our culture/dharma..
its nothing wrong caste is a part of hindu dharma...they
have more questions about caste system/arranged hindu
wedding system...even american children appreciated
our way of life...may be hinduism is a way of life...

regards
tbs

 

[nachi naga]

tbs,its natural for americans to adopt vedic parampara of living.to some extent race relations are very much copied from caste or personality traits in a human as mentioned in the gita.

nachi naga.

 

[Guruji]

Even i hv seen in many threads, our communal people staying in abroad try to bash all the activities conducted, giving so many critical ideas and replies and thereby provoking some people here. i cud not find out what is the real reason behind in basing or provoking. i pray at last they not fall in the own pit. 'yaanai than thalayil man vaari pottukkum' is the words i cud remember.

 

[sdharma]

lf jews,arabs,irish , welsch could trace themseves by birth and lineage, what is wrong for a brahmin idenyifying caste by birth

 

[RVR]

Caste may be a historic baggage which we all carry.

It is rightly pointed out by some members here that there is difference in perception of our own community people living in the western world and in India.

Our community members staying back in India will not give up caste just like that. It is not a luxury to carry caste baggage. At the same time, there is no necessity to give up caste.

As a country, India has more than 5% brahmin population(approx 5,6 crore). States like UP, Uttranchal, Delhi, Himachal have double digit brahmin population. Immediate thing which is likely to happen is these 5 crore people will start mingling with each other. Expecting beyond this at this point of time is just a day dream only.

I am giving a link from outlook magazine about brahmin population in India. There seems to be some mistake in the estimate about Tamilnadu

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?234783


First let integration of all brahmins in India take place. First let us discuss whether any reservation on this issue.

All the best

 

[sdharma]

sir
first let us work for integration of tamil hrahmin

Caste may be a historic baggage which we all carry.

It is rightly pointed out by some members here that there is difference in perception of our own community people living in the western world and in India.

Our community members staying back in India will not give up caste just like that. It is not a luxury to carry caste baggage. At the same time, there is no necessity to give up caste.

As a country, India has approx 5% brahmin population(approx 5,6 crore). States like UP, Uttranchal, Delhi, Himachal have double digit brahmin population. Immediate thing which is likely to happen is these 5 crore people will start mingling with each other. Expecting beyond this at this point of time is just a day dream only.

I am giving a link from outlook magazine about brahmin population in India. There seems to be some mistake in the estimate about Tamilnadu

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?234783


First let integration of all brahmins in India take place. First let us discuss whether any reservation on this issue.

All the best

 

[RVR]

sir
first let us work for integration of tamil hrahmin

Definitely we will work for it. Let us make use of this forum fully for the purpose.

All the best

 

[[email protected]]

To RVR sir YOUR wish and sdharmas wishes will be fulfill very soon.let us join together. s.r.k.

 

[anandb]

If we study history closely, all the caste related problems took shape after the invasion of Mughals and the Brits. Assuming the Varna system started at the beginning of Kali Yuga, the different varnas or castes seemed to have lived in harmony (till the alien invasions took place) as the occupations they followed is supposed to take them up the spiritual ladder and there was no துவேஷம் of the other's occupation as each occupation came with its pluses and minuses. There was a strong sense of identity and pride within each caste. I could sense this as early as my school days when I remember an incident. There was a slum near to my house and I used to play cricket with the kids from there in a playground nearby. One of this kid used to be a close friend so I visited his house in the slum. I was taken aback when his mother kind of did not like me coming in. Her retort was that a brahmin boy should not come into her place. That time as a boy I did not understand but as I grew up thinking about it she was saying it with a smile and with no sense of inferiority on her face. If she was thinking herself to be inferior to a brahmin she would not be saying it with a smile. Later on I have read that though there was no inter-mingling within castes as everyone maintained their places and quarters on a lot of social occasions like during temple festivities various jathis frequently intermingled. There was no animosity. A lot of water has passed under the bridge so I don't know if this can be replicated in today's society but my point is castes as such is not the reason for the differences but the differences in the mindset of the people.

 

[Nara]

Folks, Greetings!

I feel like the metaphoric Abhimanyu, battling all by himself, on the ground, against a formidable group of Kauravas from their chariots.

What if I tell you I am being a contrarian just to increase traffic to the site, no no, just kidding .

My antecedents are quite open and well known to many in this forum, including RVR sir. I am expressing my views as honestly as I can, and in the process if I am to go down, I will go down like Abhimanyu.


The criticisms are:

• people in the west don't understand ground realities in India

The above is not logical. Many brahmins living in Indian cities have no idea what is going on in villages. To study and understand realities, the place of residence can at best be a small hurdle, but having a closed mind is an insurmountable mountain of a barrier.

• I only blame brahmins

This is a stawman and a complete non sequitur. First, I don't blame anybody, only that brahmins must face up to their responsibility. Others like OBCs must do too, I have said so also. Criticizing me with the bogus charge that I am not talking about OBC is disingenuous.

• It is a day dream to think caste is going away

Yes, agreed, it won't go away easily!

Article 1 of the International Convention on Eradication of all forms of racial discrimination defines "racial discrimination" as:

"any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."
​

The General Recommendation No. 29: Article 1, paragraph 1 of the Convention (Descent) : . 01/11/2002. Gen. Rec. No. 29. (General Comments) says the following about caste:

Strongly reaffirming that discrimination based on "descent" includes discrimination against members of communities based on forms of social stratification such as caste and analogous systems of inherited status which nullify or impair their equal enjoyment of human rights,
​

and

Strongly condemning descent-based discrimination, such as discrimination on the basis of caste and analogous systems of inherited status, as a violation of the Convention,
​

(emphasis mine)

Now, with Nepal abandoning their opposition, India stands alone in opposing this language. This is why all progressives must stand together in opposition to this system. Changing the mind is the first step, If people refuse this, and want to maintain "purity" of caste, yes, eradication of caste will only remain a pipe dream.

• brahmins are not keeping anyone away from achieving whatever they want

Brahmins don't do this, at least these days they can't do this, but the caste system did and still does to a lesser extent.

This part of the system that organized economic activities based on varna/caste was often argued in this forum as the ideal system for the orderly functioning of the society. It is this system, that requires the off-springs of a vaNNaan to remain a vaNNaan etc., that allowed the accumulation of cultural capital by brahmanas and other upper caste NBs (see, I am including NBs also).

Pointing to individual brahmins not preventing others to do whatever they wish misses the point by a mile. It is the varna/caste system that ensured exclusivity in the accumulation of cultural capital that enables a group of people, segregated by birth status, to thrive while others toiled.

Often times, in social context, perception is reality, and the perception is Brahmins brought this caste system to the Tamil people with their Vedas and Dharmashasthras. This is why the rest of the so called communities, aka castes, are able to lay the "blame" at the doorstep of Brahmins with impunity.

It is all well and good to blame Dravidian politicians, I will join in the denunciations, but at day's end, what good would that do to the "community"?

There is tons and tons of academic literature by disinterested academics about these issues. Where are the answers that are intellectually sustainable? I am searching the literature and I find nothing that documents that caste system is a good system and each "community" aka caste taking care of itself is just fine and just what we need.

• let us first unite all brahmins

This will only further isolate the so called community further from the rest of the population. This promotes an ostrich like tendency that will not serve this "community" aka caste well in the long run.


Anand, it is interesting that you mention the lady telling you Brahmins are not supposed to come to their hut. Apparently this lady's attitude is common among the older dalits and is clue to the origins of their caste.

Cheers!

p.s. please refrain from ad hominems like I am this or I am that, for what do they prove?

 

[nachi naga]

What can american know about ways and means of our lives as Tambrahms in Tamizh Nadu.A fleeting visit and a chance comment from a driver driving one from the temple premises,does NOT indicate life as it is here.It's like after 250 years later USA has got it's first Bi-Racial President in the history of USA in 2009.Oh,come off it,there is no ad hominems,now you are trying to win sympathy,as if you have been hurt.We sure can see thru all this charade,mera bharat mahaan,jai hind.

nachi naga.

 

[RVR]

When we talk about brahmin unity in this forum threads, it is not directed against any other community . We are not going to fight for any rights with the Government.

Poor and downtrodden members of TB community has to be helped by fellow members of the community only. Unless TB community unites, it is not possible to achieve the same.

Our agenda here is pure development only. Our development is not at the cost of any other community.

We are not interested in politics. Let our members vote for any political party they like.

I would like to once again give the link about brahmin population in India

www.outlookindia.com | Brahmins In India

There is a confusion about actual percentage in Tamilnadu. Even if it is 2 to 3% today, it will come down to 1% in the near future.

Most of the younger generation is moving out of the state and country for greener pastures.

We are not at all interested in any conflict with anybody and would like to move out at the earliest.

Only older people prefer to stay back here and they will also vanish after some time.

Personally I have seen two struggles.

First is class struggle where we were driven out of agriculture through land ceiling laws. We sold all the lands and vacated agraharams in the village.

Second is caste struggle where reservations in education and employment is driving us out of the state and the country also. Already the process is being implemented and after few decades very few members of our community will stay back in Tamilnadu.

What more is required from us? I eanerstly feel targeting the residual people here is just waste of energy and time.

All the best

 

[Raghy]

I have seen here many an American born T.B's doing caste bashing, like missionaries.Will you please stop this for the sake of the well being of our own community.Why cant we consider Caste as a Culture? How can we disown our ancient Vedic caste identity. Lets follow our Sanathanadharma.

Sri.SDharma,

Greetings to you. I may be talking to Sanadhana Dharma.

Welcome to this forum. Sir, there are many members in this forum writing nice, thought provoking messages; Tamizh literature; old literatures and scripts etc. There are members focused on social services. When you wrote in this forum, your first message was not directed towards any of the above mentioned member in appreciation. Instead, your first message is about One Sri.Nara! Of all the members in this forum, it seems, Sri.Nara attracted you the most!

I have seen here many an American born T.B's doing caste bashing, like missionaries.

(If you mean about Sri.Nara, then I must say, he is not American born. As for Tamizh Brahmin, he is not claiming to be one, not now anyway. Whether he can walk away from his caste of birth or not is debatable...in a different thread, if you please. Just for argument sake, let us say Sri.Nara is a harijan. Can he indulge in 'caste bashing' then?).

What is wrong with 'caste bashing'? Sir, we do not need caste in our society. Sri.Ramanuja is revered because he indulged in 'caste bashing'. I don't know your logic when said 'caste bashing' like missionaries. Any day I will stand my ground to say 'caste bashing' and 'caste eradication' is good for our society; good for hinduism. Is there any tangible reason or purpose for the caste system to stay? If Sri.nara indulges in 'caste bashing', good for him. I will cheer him up.

Will you please stop this for the sake of the well being of our own community.

Stop 'caste bashing'? Why? kindly read my above reasons, please. 'Caste bashing' and 'caste eradication' is very good for the well being of the society. It is a pity the caste system was left to last this long.

Why cant we consider Caste as a Culture?

We can not consider caste as culture because caste and culture are not the same. All the Tamil speaking people irrespective of their caste, celeberate 'pongal' festival, because it is our culture. Irrespective of the caste all the Tamizh speaking persons sing 'Thiruppavai' and/or 'thiruvempavai', because it is Tamizh language, it is the Tamizh culture to sing those songs. Irrespective of atheists, agnosts or theists, irrespective of the caste, we all love 'thirukkural'; we all love 'nalayira dhivya prapandham'...proof can be found in this forum itself. Our culture is displayed in this same forum. We all have caste differences; we all have our difference of opinions about caste, caste feelings, inter-caste marriages..anything; but, we are one and the same when it comes to our Tamizh culture.

Kindly don't consider culture as a caste. Thanks.

How can we disown our ancient Vedic caste identity.

Sir, we don't happen to live in the vedic period now. As you rightly mentioned, it is 'ancient'. We may have evolved to year 2010.

Vedic period - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is no question of disowning our identity. We still own our vedic identity; all Indians own that identity. I can't quite figure out your point of view in this. All I can say is, we all still own that vedic identity; our ancestors came from the vedic period. It is accepted by everyone in the whole world.

Lets follow our Sanathanadharma.

Yes. Let us follow Sanathana Dharma. Let us treat everyone equally; let us have love and care for everyone; let us not degrade any person for any reason; let us be humble and be strong. I am more than happy to follow Sanathana Dharma.Thank you for your inspirations.


Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Nara said:-

I feel like the metaphoric Abhimanyu, battling all by himself, on the ground, against a formidable group of Kauravas from their chariots.
My antecedents are quite open and well known to many in this forum, including RVR sir. I am expressing my views as honestly as I can, and in the process if I am to go down, I will go down like Abhimanyu.

I sincerely don't think so. Comparing yourself with metaphoric Abhimanyu would be disasterous. Abhimanyu acted on impulse; I don't see you acting on impulse. But, kindly indulge me to say this, please; poverty does not discriminate. there are poor people in every caste. Kindly refrain from debating regarding helping such poor persons. I know you like to uplift all the vulnerable persons. Opposing persons in power is good; but, the same approach may not be applied to vulnerable persons though.

cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

I have seen here many an American born T.B's doing caste bashing, like missionaries.Will you please stop this for the sake of the well being of our own community.Why cant we consider Caste as a Culture? How can we disown our ancient Vedic caste identity. Lets follow our Sanathanadharma.

sdharma,

can you be a lıttle more explıcıt please, re 'seeıng here amerıcan born ..... mıssıonarıes'.

thıs sort of vague statements appears to me lıke comıng from someone, who ıs not comfortable wıth the dıscussıon of certaın topıcs ın a frank and forthrıght matter.

some of us, ı thınk, would rather not dıscuss certaın topıcs for fear of exposıng our prejudıces and our utmost fears of the consequences of utterıng these ın publıc. a steadfast and stubborn sılence to any calls for reforms, ı thınk, has been the norm of our communıty.

hence, ı thınk, thıs utter sense of anger and betrayal, at the sıght of our youths cohortıng wıth other groups. whıch extends further to banıshment, should they chose to marry wıth other groups.

as a consequences of these mındsets, we appear to be shrınkıng or dıasporıng. for, the true brahmın, wıll not abandon bharatha varsha? wıll he not?

well, ıf thıs should be so, atleast let some of us wrıte hıstorıes of the glorıes of our erudıtıon, and be mum, about the factors of ısolatıon and ınsularıty, that ultımately caused our downfall and dısappearance from tamıl nadu.

hopefully, whıle no tears would be shed by rest of the tamıl trıbes, let us not hear them or be around to hear them whısper, 'good rıddance'.

more later...

 

[nachi naga]

kunjuppu,

hopefully, whıle no tears would be shed by rest of the tamıl trıbes, let us not hear them or be around to hear them whısper, 'good rıddance'.

thats exactly not whispered but rather the writings on the wall.survivors amongst us take the least line of reistance and migrate.like your good self,for instance.after migrating,try to be in touch with our roots thru an exemplary website like this.welcome.

nachi naga.

 

[Nara]

... there are poor people in every caste. Kindly refrain from debating regarding helping such poor persons. I know you like to uplift all the vulnerable persons.

Dear brother Raghy, I don't know why you get the impression that I am opposed to helping poor people. I am not even opposed to caste-based charities for helping poor among their own caste. I cited this only as an example to Hari that caste consciousness is still prevalent even in urban setting, just as an observation without any value judgment.

In this context, the rich are the ones who must be thankful to the poor as without the poor, their generosity cannot find expression. I am not saying this, Thiruvalluvar said it:

ஈவார்கண் என்உண்டாம் தோற்றம் இரந்துகோள்
மேவார் இலாஅக் கடை.
​

In the absence of the needy, what fame can the generous have?
​

Lord Sri Krishna expresses the same sentiment in a somewhat different way, in Srimat BG.

Chapter 7, verse 18:

उदाराः सर्व ऍवैते ज्ञानी त्वात्मैव मे मतम् ।
आस्थितः स हि युक्तात्मा मामेवानुत्तमां गतिम् ॥

உதாரா: ஸர்வ ஏவைதே ஜ்ஞாநீ த்வாத்மைவ மே மதம் |
ஆஸ்தித: ஸ ஹி யுக்தாத்மா மாமேவாநுத்தமாம் கதிம் ||
​

All the bhakthas are generous, but the wise paramaikanthees, since they don't seek anything else but me (Sri Krishna) for its own sake, they are verily my own inner soul -- this is my firm stand.

In this verse, Sri Krishna says all bhathas, even the ones who show bhakti for some lesser material goal, are generous, because if they don't exist, Sri Krishna's ஒளதார்யம் (generosity) will remain concealed. In kther words, it is through their generosity of seeking help from Sri Krishna that the lord is able to show his ஒளதார்யம்.

Cheers!

 

[pvraman]

Caste as a culture - A social issue

Referring a book called, "The condition of working class in ENGLAND in the year 1884" by Friedrich Engels, Almost around the same period British Govt took India over directly from East Indian Company. As a Textile man, i am amazed to read how the invention of basic textile machine & automation destroyed the pride and living style of village folks IN ENGLAND and at the same time, we can understand how they robbed us by making us more European than the original (!), they crushed our millions of hand weavers and thus the family's welfare. Tilted the balance of their village society and our village society.

Caste is a social issue as much as religious issue. It was there, without obhection from most of the people in the society. We have uprooted our basics by embracing the English education and values. There is no traces of value or moral or education based on our own dharmic principles imparted to young children. Panja Thandra kadhaigalukku Badila Baba blacksheep Solli tharanga. So now, Castes & Materialistic pursuit can not co-exist. So, keeping the caste alive, without going back to the good old principles is a mere hypocrisy.

There is a great competition to consume the resources.

“But the manufacturing monopoly of England is the pivot of the present social system of England. Even while that monopoly lasted, the markets could not keep pace with the increasing productivity of English manufacturers; the decennial crises were the consequence. And new markets are getting scarcer every day, so much so that even the Negroes of the Congo are now to be forced into the civilisation attendant upon Manchester calicos, Staffordshire pottery, and Birmingham hardware. How will it be when Continental, and especially American, goods flow in in ever-increasing quantities — when the predominating share, still held by British manufacturers, will become reduced from year to year? Answer, Free Trade, thou universal panacea

This is one of Quotes in the year 1885...
The Condition of the Working Class in England

There is a change in setup of the castes all across . It is happening naturally as the awareness grows like replacement of Kudumi and pancakacham by crew cut and coat.

 

[pvraman]

Quotes from A guide book for Missioநரிs

"The Romish Church, which next invaded India, unfortunately despised the
Syrian community, sought no instruction from its history, made a friend of
the caste system and adopted it in all its hideousness. It did not wait to
consider the terrible fact, so patent to all at present, that Hinduism and caste
are convertible terms--that one cannot cease to be a Hindu who maintains
the caste system in its integrity. Its intention was, no doubt, good in its way.
It was an effort to make an easy way out of Hinduism into Christianity and
thus to swell the tide of incoming converts. But, unfortunately, the path was
made too easy; the narrow gate was sufficiently enlarged for the Hindu to
enter with his burden of heathen prejudices and superstitions, and it soon
became the highway of insincerity and hypocrisy. Moreover, the Romish
Church has found, to its cost, that an easy way from Hinduism to
Christianity is an equally easy path to return. A man who carried much of
his Hinduism with him into the Christian Church was easily drawn back by
the remaining old ties and affections. The consequence is that, while
Romanism has made large inroads upon Hinduism in some places, it has
only been for a time; and the back-sliders have been as numerous as the
new converts; so that Roman Catholicism has made little net progress in
India for many years."

Ref: Page 202 - India's Problem Krishna or Christ by
John P. Jones, Pasumalai.

More quotes to come.......

 

[kunjuppu]

ı thınk wıth the prolıferatıon of technology & ınstant communıcatıons ıncreasıngly to every nook and corner of the world, our old paradıgm re caste and culture, much of ıt coıned ın an ısolatory world of the past, are beıng shaken to the foundatıon.

recently ı had a chance to vısıt turkey. ıt ıs a secular ıslamıc state, one to be seen to be belıeved, of a modern muslım state, where barrıng the presence of mınarets, one would have a hard tıme defınıng ıt dıfferently from southern europe.

one sees headscarves, but not to the extent of ındıa or england,. the women are modern, the clubs are plenty, alcohol ıs avaıalble more freely than ın ındıa and above all modernly dressed ıe westernwıse women. ofcourse our vısıt was brıef but we went to a few places and ıt was consıstent ın ıts modernıty.

but what struck me most was that the topmost and the bottommost turk ı met, felt that there were turks, wıthout anylevel of separatıon. ıe one huge turkısh caste. ı envıed thıs, as ı felt how bıgly nıce ıt would be just to have one huge tamıl caste. our boys wıll not wrıngıng theır hands for want of brıdes.

atleast we have hangups when ıt comesto europe. but a vısıt to a neutral country wıth no tıes to ındıa, and seeıng an egalıtarıan socıety at work on a socıal level, ı cannot but help to accept the deep flaws whıch the word 'caste' has dıvıded the socıety. what ıs the use of blamıng the muslıms or the englısh for our caste dıvısıons? our ancestors, whom many here have gone on to venerate, have been so stupıd to permıt these dıvısıons ınto our socıety? have they been so ıgnorant to be manıpulated?

ı thınk overall ıt ıs our fault to dıvıde ourselves. but ıt ıs never too late. we can redeem ourselves as brahmıns, by doıng lıttle thıngs, ın a lıttle way, to break the chaıns. ıf caste be our culture, ı thınk, we are ın for a long haul of grıef. not just the tamıl brahmıns, but ı thınk a repetıtıon of a foreıgner dıvıdıng and conquerıng us agaın. thıs tıme ıt may not be a physıcal occupatıon, but one of the mınd. really ı do not know whıch ıs worse!!!

 

[RVR]

Kunjuppu ji,

Caste is a historic baggage which we all carry.

Why we carry? No body knows.

Why we should drop this baggage? Again there are no valid answers.

The best thing which can happen at this point of time within India is mixing with brahmins of other languages.

According to estimates, India has 5.6 cr Brahmin population.

Most of the brahmins recite in Sanskrit only

So sanskrit can be adopted as common language for all brahmins in India.

There are different philosophical schools advocated by Sankara, Ramanuja and Madhva

Most of the people don't even understand the differences between different schools of thought

At ground level there is no aversion to integrate in spite of the differences in schools of thought followed traditionally.

Let us encourage our boys and girls to marry within the community crossing language and philosophy barriers first.

This decision has to be taken fast to overcome shortage of girls within TB community.

It is high time, every body understands ground reality and dilute their rigidity.

All the best

 

[aramakrishnan1]

Let there be caste

The religious rituals that we follow in our daily life, festivals and celebrations vary between various castes. For eg. every caste has their way/design of making "Thaali".
Caste gives every person his identity. In North India, people use their family titles like Gupta, Shukla, Supariwala, Paanwala, etc. These are also caste identities.
Caste has many good aspects too and that is why most of the Hindus follow Caste for marriage. The family rituals, cooking and living habits have their own differences according to various castes. CASTE should not be removed, but it has to be understood that no individual is superior by birth. Each one has a "Kula thozhil" and they would be best in that. The Brahmins (said to be the Forward Caste) worship Lord Rama, Krishna, Anjaneya who are not Brahmins in their respective incarnations.

 

[anandb]

ı thınk wıth the prolıferatıon of technology & ınstant communıcatıons ıncreasıngly to every nook and corner of the world, our old paradıgm re caste and culture, much of ıt coıned ın an ısolatory world of the past, are beıng shaken to the foundatıon.

recently ı had a chance to vısıt turkey. ıt ıs a secular ıslamıc state, one to be seen to be belıeved, of a modern muslım state, where barrıng the presence of mınarets, one would have a hard tıme defınıng ıt dıfferently from southern europe.

one sees headscarves, but not to the extent of ındıa or england,. the women are modern, the clubs are plenty, alcohol ıs avaıalble more freely than ın ındıa and above all modernly dressed ıe westernwıse women. ofcourse our vısıt was brıef but we went to a few places and ıt was consıstent ın ıts modernıty.

but what struck me most was that the topmost and the bottommost turk ı met, felt that there were turks, wıthout anylevel of separatıon. ıe one huge turkısh caste. ı envıed thıs, as ı felt how bıgly nıce ıt would be just to have one huge tamıl caste. our boys wıll not wrıngıng theır hands for want of brıdes.

atleast we have hangups when ıt comesto europe. but a vısıt to a neutral country wıth no tıes to ındıa, and seeıng an egalıtarıan socıety at work on a socıal level, ı cannot but help to accept the deep flaws whıch the word 'caste' has dıvıded the socıety. what ıs the use of blamıng the muslıms or the englısh for our caste dıvısıons? our ancestors, whom many here have gone on to venerate, have been so stupıd to permıt these dıvısıons ınto our socıety? have they been so ıgnorant to be manıpulated?

ı thınk overall ıt ıs our fault to dıvıde ourselves. but ıt ıs never too late. we can redeem ourselves as brahmıns, by doıng lıttle thıngs, ın a lıttle way, to break the chaıns. ıf caste be our culture, ı thınk, we are ın for a long haul of grıef. not just the tamıl brahmıns, but ı thınk a repetıtıon of a foreıgner dıvıdıng and conquerıng us agaın. thıs tıme ıt may not be a physıcal occupatıon, but one of the mınd. really ı do not know whıch ıs worse!!!

If "caste" is shaken to the roots, I don't have a huge problem but "culture" shouldn't. Every country should have its unique culture, traditions, rituals etc which should be celebrated. I would hate to see a world of 6 billion people all boozing on the beach with bikini or all wearing immaculately tailored shirts with trousers and ties in the office, speaking only English, eating at McDonalds or KFC, sipping Coke and watching only Hollywood flicks. What a dull and boring world that would be? Even the ordinary citizens of the imperial West (U.S. and U.K.) would not want to see that wherever they go? To me, the big question is what exactly is modernity? Is something modern only if looked from the eyes of a Westerner or a person with a Western outlook?