Can India be declared as a Hindu Rashtra as sought by RSS Chief?

[vgane]

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With RSS upping the ante will India be declared a Hindu state..It will require a major Constitution amendment..First the word secular which was surreptitiously introduced by Indira Gandhi has to be removed.. But Modi requires a clear majority in Rajya Sabha too to ensure a smooth passage....May be it can contemplated after the state assembly elections scheduled this year end.. The blunder during partition will be rectified once for all...

[h=1]Hindustan Hindu rashtra hai: RSS chief Bhagwat[/h]
August 18, 2014 08:19

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Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh chief Mohan Bhagwat has once again triggered a controversy by declaring that "Hindutva hamare rashtra ki pechaan hai" (Hindutva is the identity of our nation).


Making the remark at a function in Mumbai to mark 50 years of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, Bhagwat also asserted: "Hindustan Hindu rashtra hai" (Hindustan is a country of Hindus).


The RSS chief had made similar comments last week, provoking a political storm.


At a function in Cuttak, Odisha, Bhagwat had suggested that India is a Hindu state and "citizens of Hindustan should be known as Hindus".


"The entire world recognises Indians as Hindus, therefore India is a Hindu state. The cultural identity of all Indians is Hindutva and the present inhabitants of the country are descendants of this great culture," he had said

Hindustan Hindu rashtra hai: RSS chief Bhagwat

 

[prasad1]

Short answer YES, Hindu's have the majority. India does not have bill of Rights like USA so it is easy to change the constitution with a simple majority.
Jiski Lathi uski Bhaise. Similar to "might is right".

What was achieved by changing the name of Bombay to Mumbai. Other than the sign companies getting some business.
What will be achieved by declaring India a Hindu State? Of course you do want the minorities to leave the country, if not they should always be afraid. In the process we also rubbed the noses in the dirt of these non-Hindu's. Does it mean that we will purge the country of all non-hindus? Or can we pass draconian laws like (in Gujarat) where the minorities can live in designated areas.
What is the reason of claiming a religion for the state? There is more sinister reason for this clamoring.

 

[tks]

Aggressive religions demand that their followers expand/multiply and convert. One way to expand is to have more children. In fact, the highest holy person , the Ayatollah in Iran is now mandating that birth control use will be punished and that Iranians have to make more babies (I am paraphrasing).

The other ways to expand that Muslims and Christians practice is by conversion.

The problem with allowing willful conversion unchecked is that it can lead to conflicts forever between these aggressive religions. The other issue is that one forgets the national identity in favor of a religious identity.

While I am not for any aggressive interpretation of what we know as Hinduism, I really think many of these thinking of RSS will go away if there is no overt effort to convert by the aggressive religions. If someone wants to convert on their own or by marriage or whatever I am sure that is fine but that should be possible in any direction ..

 

[prasad1]

I think the OP is about changing the constitution to make India a Hindu Nation. It may or may not involve conversion.
I do not know the reason for declaring India a Hindu nation. Except the bragging right for majority. If there was a minimum knowledge about Hinduism is required, most of these Hindu Talibans will fail. Do I want to be told what kind of Hinduism I can follow by Mr. Bhagwat? NO thank you.

 

[tks]

I think the OP is about changing the constitution to make India a Hindu Nation. It may or may not involve conversion.
I do not know the reason for declaring India a Hindu nation. Except the bragging right for majority. If there was a minimum knowledge about Hinduism is required, most of these Hindu Talibans will fail. Do I want to be told what kind of Hinduism I can follow by Mr. Bhagwat? NO thank you.

Respecting all religion is part of Hinduism. Swami Vivekananda pointed that out in his Chicago address in his own powerful delivery. There will be some people making noise - nothing will come from those people.

What I meant to say is that if conversion is not part of the platform of Indian Muslims and Indian Christians there will be no one making statements about Hindu nation - that is just my conjecture and not based on any facts

 

[sarang]

Hinduism implies respect for all religions in theory and practice. We will pray and wait for the day when the country is called bharatavarsha, and changes are incorporated in the constitution in the approved way.

 

[prasad1]

Will the name change from X to Y change the personality? If Ramchandran is called Ram Iyer will he act differently. Will a rose by any other name smell differently.
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" is a commonly quoted part of a dialogue in William Shakespeare's play Romeo and Juliet, in which Juliet argues that the names of things do not matter, only what things "are".

So if you call it India or Bharatvarsha, will it feed one more poor person tonight? It might show "those Other than Us", who is the boss. Will it improve the average persons condition even one bit? I doubt it.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

In William Shakespeare's play Romeo and Juliet, in which Juliet argues that the names of things do not matter, only what things "are".

Good point! Just by calling India a Hindu nation nothing can be achieved.

Hindus are discriminated against in both religious and secular sphere and nothing has really changed despite the coming to power of a supposedly "hindu-friendly" party.

RSS should highlight real issues faced by Hindus instead of making such provocative statements.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Does it mean that we will purge the country of all non-hindus? Or can we pass draconian laws like (in Gujarat) where the minorities can live in designated areas.

Prasadji, What is this draconian law that you are talking about? Would you please enlighten us? Has Gujarat govt passed any law wherein non-hindus of Gujarat are forced to live only in ghettos?

 

[[email protected]]

This is an interesting question. It was always a HINDU NATION and will remain same. This part ended up having invaders who ruled over the majority for over 1000 years (some 800 yrs by Muslims & 200 years by Christians). Despite this, the nation is associated with HINDU WAY OF LIFE... Secondly, Hinduism is not a religion (which is stated and reiterated every now and then including Supreme Court in many occasion). The organised way of running personal life is a phenomenon associated with OGANISED RELIGION - like Christianity or Islam. There is a text compiled (no one know who wrote or compiled the text), how to run or conduct oneself is written in the text, and periodically the mother text is given different meanings and explanations by designated religious heads (which become applicable to the member of the religion). The above is completely opposite to the life conducted by a person who follow the hindu way of life. There is no designated AUTHORITY... You have no mechanism to convert into HINDUISM - once you stop associating yourself with any organised religion - ONE AUTOMATICALLY QUALIFY TO HINDU WAY OF LIFE. The SECULARISM word is something unknown to even the creator of this word but Indira Gandhi used it and gave it a meaning for her personal political benefit. Till 1976, there is no word called SECULARISM in Indian Constitution (The constitutional framers were fool or ignorant?). The word is inserted by force during EMERGENCY (and thus converting the country into a minority centric state). No one ask the pertinent question : What is that ""REASON"' or what prompted her to insert this word? She never gave any reason to include this word...

 

[sarang]

The Modi government’s Hindu agenda – Koenraad Elst

Excerpts from an article by Koenraad Elst, a hindu sympathiser, but difficult to place. I have put his last para at the top. The dimwits who always link hindutva supporters as core members of RSS or any established hindu organization have to learn that the organizations have only negligible membership of committed and active hindus. The article is fairly long with more issues under the lens. Link at the end.

“The evolution of technology and of Hindu society itself has now created the right chance to remind the party of its raison d’être, all while adapting this original sense of purpose to the conditions of the present day. The contours of this new Hindu lobby are already taking shape in the proliferation of Hindu initiatives that owe no allegiance to the Sangh Parivar. It is up to the Hindus themselves to develop the instruments ensuring that the present opportunity is not wasted by time-servers who still function within the Nehruvian paradigm even while being cabinet members in a “Hindu nationalist” government.

“We should not give up hope too soon that Modi all by himself will make a difference for the better. He has, after all, been hardened by 12 years of unprecedentedly intense hate campaign by the secularists. Mostly, the reaction of BJP leaders to the slightest whiff of secularist criticism is to buckle under, to jettison even the least association with anything Hindu, and to go out of their way to prove how secular they are. Modi has not done that. So, maybe he is made of sterner stuff, and maybe he has a secret plan for furthering the Hindu agenda sometime soon.” – Dr Koenraad Elst

“Narendra Modi’s accession to power has not entirely ended the international campaign against him, witness the petition (with most signatures found to be fraudulent) to Barack Obama to cancel Modi’s planned visit to Washington. It was floated by theCoalition Against Genocide, a platform of several dozen Muslim organizations and some Communist coattails, many of them funded by the Pakistani secret service ISI. It seems to irritate them that Modi is now playing with the big boys while they themselves can only bite his ankles. Indeed, the leaders of theBRICS countries have fully embraced him as one of their own, and the US President now has to hurry to mend the relations.

“The disgruntled voices in the ruling party say, first of all, that even in Gujarat, Modi did nothing specifically pro-Hindu, though he proved an excellent administrator and at least kept the enemy out of power. He did not bow down to the secularists, as by wearing the Muslim skullcap (the crown of hypocrisy) during Eid, or by taking the guilt for the post-Godhra riots upon him.

“Outside New Delhi, the radiating effect of having Modi in power has been very positive. It has not only been applauded by the stock exchange, far more important is that it has filled Hindus and Hindu activists of all persuasions with more self-confidence. An activist of the group Hindu Human Rights in London reports: “I’m seeing many more Hindus active and assertive than before, when all you saw was depression and negativity.” If we look at the larger picture, so far the trend is good. It is when you focus on politics and the BJP’s functioning, and especially when you look at the details known only to insiders, that you become aware of a problem.

“In 2013, however, a man fiercely hated by the secularists was made the prime-ministerial candidate, much against the wish of the party bigwigs, who toed the secularist line. That was the signal the Hindu voters needed: they turned up in massive numbers and voted Modi into power.

“Time is running out for the Hindus, and if the relation between the religions, presently at the disadvantage of the Hindus, doesn’t start changing now, it will never happen.

The Modi government?s Hindu agenda ? Koenraad Elst | Bharata Bharati

 

[sarang]

Blind cats will remain blind. At least cats which close their eyes can open them.

Prasadji, What is this draconian law that you are talking about? Would you please enlighten us? Has Gujarat govt passed any law wherein non-hindus of Gujarat are forced to live only in ghettos?

 

[prasad1]

Prasadji, What is this draconian law that you are talking about? Would you please enlighten us? Has Gujarat govt passed any law wherein non-hindus of Gujarat are forced to live only in ghettos?

Ali Husain is a prosperous young Muslim businessman. He recently bought a Mercedes and lives in a suburban-style gated community that itself sits inside a ghetto. In Gujarat, it is so difficult for Muslims to buy property in areas dominated by Hindus even the community's fast-growing urban middle class is confined to cramped and decrepit corners of cities. Husain embodies the paradox of Gujarat: the state's pro-business leadership has created opportunities for entrepreneurs of all creeds; yet religious prejudice and segregation are deeply, and even legally, engrained.
If a Muslim enquires about a property in a new development, often the response is: "Why are you even asking?" said Husain, speaking at his home in the Muslim neighbourhood of Juhapura. Separation of communities is common across India. Nowhere is it as systematised as it has become in Gujarat.
.................................

a property law unique to Gujarat has perpetuated segregation, creating ghettos such as Juhapura and a sense of apartheid in some urban areas.
The "Disturbed Areas Act", a law that restricts Muslims and Hindus from selling property to each other in "sensitive" areas, was introduced in 1991 to avert an exodus or distress sales in neighbourhoods hit by inter-religious unrest.
Modi's government amended the law in 2009 to give local officials greater power to decide on property sales. It also extended the reach of the law, most recently in 2013 - 11 years after the last major religious riots.

The state government says the law is meant to protect Muslims, who account for just under 10 percent of the state's 60 million people. "It prevents ethnic cleansing and people being forced out," a senior government official who requested anonymity told Reuters.
Critics say the act's continued enforcement and the addition of new districts covered by it - about 40 percent of Ahmedabad is now governed by the law - means it is effectively being applied as a tool of social engineering. The Gujarat High Court in a 2012 case questioned the state government’s use of the act to block the sale of properties by Hindus to Muslims.
It is like Soweto South Africa was created for the protection of Blacks. The actual purpose was to keep blacks from moving into Johannesburg.
In Modi's Gujarat, Religious Prejudice Still Exists - The Hans India

In a section of Krishna Nagar, a posh area of Bhavnagar city, a signboard declares the address as “Hindu Sanatorium”. It is a predominantly Hindu area — till recently, only three of the 150-odd bungalows belonged to Muslims. A fourth bungalow was purchased by a Bohra Muslim, Ali Asghar Zaveri, in January this year, but he has not been able to move in due to protests by Hindu residents.


For the last two months, the Hindu residents have been holding “Ram Darbars” outside Zaveri’s bungalow every evening, gathering there and playing recordings of “Hanuman Chalisa” and bhajans.


VHP leader Pravin Togadia visited the area during the darbar on Saturday. Addressing the gathering, he reportedly warned Zaveri to vacate the premises within 48 hours and asked residents to forcibly occupy the bungalow. An FIR has been filed against him.

Bhavnagar is not covered by the Disturbed Areas Act. But in one district of the town, Hindus have effectively imposed it, raising a banner at the entry to a narrow lane that reads: "In this area, locality or by-lane no property or building can be sold or rented to people who are not of this religion."
Reuters interviewed two local VHP leaders who said they have made repeated requests since 2004 for Bhavnagar to be put under the Disturbed Areas Act.http://indianexpress.com/article/india/politics/bhavnagar-model-muslim-buys-house-cant-move-in/


Blind cat can feel its way, thank you. But a fool is insufferable. I guess that the Muslim family is also Indian!!!!!! and carry Indian Passport.

 

[sarang]

Why no one has gone to supreme court and got the law annulled. It was done to protect illegal and distress sale and purchase of properties in certain areas. The practice was a muslim will buy a property from a hindu from a hindu community area paying a sometimes even triple the market rate. When a muslimn family moves in, the other properties see a big drop in value, and the hindus are forced to sell their properties at well below market prices and move out elsewhere. This happens in towns too in other states. In south india, one can find many previously brahmin/hindu streets leading to a temple, completely taken over by other non hindu communities. This happens all over india, in cities like mumbai too. Many housing societies

In the riot affected parts of ahmedabad, many people moved out and settled elsewhere using the compensation given by the gujarat government. The restrictions on selling to protect owners from distress selling.

The media and foreign funded ngos have failed to achieve anything or pin down modi on any issue related to the riots, despite total unholy support from the congress government, hillary clinton and left/muslim/christian nexus. There are enough documentary proof available on the involvement of west funded ngos in destabilising gujarat govt. What is amazing is the tenacity of some beaten souls to quote unreliable reports from the biased and shady media and continue to believe in lies and vicious gossip.

Blind hatred does make one mad.

 

[tks]

Why no one has gone to supreme court and got the law annulled. It was done to protect illegal and distress sale and purchase of properties in certain areas. The practice was a muslim will buy a property from a hindu from a hindu community area paying a sometimes even triple the market rate. When a muslimn family moves in, the other properties see a big drop in value, and the hindus are forced to sell their properties at well below market prices and move out elsewhere. This happens in towns too in other states. In south india, one can find many previously brahmin/hindu streets leading to a temple, completely taken over by other non hindu communities. This happens all over india, in cities like mumbai too. Many housing societies

In the riot affected parts of ahmedabad, many people moved out and settled elsewhere using the compensation given by the gujarat government. The restrictions on selling to protect owners from distress selling.

The media and foreign funded ngos have failed to achieve anything or pin down modi on any issue related to the riots, despite total unholy support from the congress government, hillary clinton and left/muslim/christian nexus. There are enough documentary proof available on the involvement of west funded ngos in destabilising gujarat govt. What is amazing is the tenacity of some beaten souls to quote unreliable reports from the biased and shady media and continue to believe in lies and vicious gossip.

Blind hatred does make one mad.

Sri Sarang

Do you have references to what Hillary Clinton did - was it before she worked for Obama or during her tenure in Obama administration? I guess I can Google for such information but since you may have some sources I thought I will ask you instead

 

[sarang]

Even shabna azmi, javed akhtar, many khans, celebrities from the muslim community have complained in tv that they cannot buy wherever they want in mumbai and are politely to go elsewhere. There were even sting videos of agents and builders refusing to show some properties to muslims of all social classes. Modi has nothing to do with such cases happening all over the country, even in towns like trichy and coimbatore. When will pseudo hindus learn?

 

[sarang]

Some passages from one article in asian tribune; there are other articles as well.

Secretary Clinton's 'Get Modi' Policy holds disastrous to US under Modi regime
Washington, D.C. 16 May (Asiantribune.com):

The HillaryClinton's grand design was then known as "GetNarendra Modi' plan developedunder strict supervision of Mrs. Clinton to find facts about Modi's allegedinvolvement in the killing of thousand Muslims in 2002 and bring him to aninternational court for genocide.

To executethe 'Get Narendra Modi Plan", Secretary Clinton found extensive amount ofUS dollars to fund a couple of European NGOs who were brought in to the 'GrandDesign' to bring down Chief Minister of Gujarat Narendra Modi.

These present and retired officials claimed that "during the tenure in office of Secretary Clinton, several expert teams in the guise of NGOs were sent to Gujarat to try and find mass graves". The purpose was to then take the matter to the Office of the UN Commissioner of Human Rights in Geneva as an example of genocide.
An article in a recent Sunday Guardian by Madhav Nalapat said " the Obama administration has dialled back on the hectic efforts by Hillary Clinton to paint the Gujarat CM as guilty of mass murder and even genocide.

Secretary Clinton's 'Get Modi' Policy holds disastrous to US under Modi regime | Asian Tribune

Sri Sarang

Do you have references to what Hillary Clinton did - was it before she worked for Obama or during her tenure in Obama administration? I guess I can Google for such information but since you may have some sources I thought I will ask you instead

 

[sarang]

Disturbed areas act was originally passed in 1991 by the congress government. Gujarat had a spate of communal riots before 2002, and thankfully none under modi rule. Aim is to prevent distress sale of properties by coercion or greed. Amendments too are for misuse by all sections - agents, property developers and pressure groups. One must look at the problem under this light. One must see gujarat pre 2002 and post 2002 to understand.

In mumbai too, there are mini pakistan and mini bangladesh clusters with illegal migrants. Even electricity bills and ration cards refer the place as mini****. I am sure one can find such ghettos in UP, bihar and bengal.

The law has been in existence in the state since 1991 when there was Congress government in power in the state. But it had been introduced and implemented only in old city areas of Ahmedabad with a view to prevent distress sale of houses because the commercial capital of Gujarat witnessed frequent communal riots in those days.
Many people belonging to Hindu and Muslim communities sold out their houses at a throw away price to shift to the areas they considered to be safer.

Known as Gujarat Prohibition of Transfer of Immovable Property for Protection of Tenants from Eviction from premises in Disturbed Areas Act, popularly known as Disturbed Areas Act, brought in 1991, was meant to check ghettoisation and ensure that people were not forced to distress sale of their properties.

However, Modi government is going to introduce an amendment into the Act by bringing a bill to this effect in the state assembly on July 28. The bill aims to give more powers to district collectors. Under the amendments prepared, the district collectors will have powers to start inquiry suo motu or on an application from any person, into distress sale of property between two different communities.
Earlier, whenever there was a riot or disturbances, Muslims had the option to shift to Muslim-dominated areas by buying the Hindu properties in Muslim neighbourhoods because they felt secure in Muslim localities. However, the elements in the Sangh Parivar felt the new trend unfavourable for them and they had been opposing it since 2002 communal riots. In many cases, they got the property deals cancelled through their influence in the administration.
​http://twocircles.net/2009jul17/mod...uslims_buy_hindu_properties.html#.U_NtlsWSzPs

 

[tks]

Some passages from one article in asian tribune; there are other articles as well.

Secretary Clinton's 'Get Modi' Policy holds disastrous to US under Modi regime
Washington, D.C. 16 May (Asiantribune.com):

The HillaryClinton's grand design was then known as "GetNarendra Modi' plan developedunder strict supervision of Mrs. Clinton to find facts about Modi's allegedinvolvement in the killing of thousand Muslims in 2002 and bring him to aninternational court for genocide.

To executethe 'Get Narendra Modi Plan", Secretary Clinton found extensive amount ofUS dollars to fund a couple of European NGOs who were brought in to the 'GrandDesign' to bring down Chief Minister of Gujarat Narendra Modi.

These present and retired officials claimed that "during the tenure in office of Secretary Clinton, several expert teams in the guise of NGOs were sent to Gujarat to try and find mass graves". The purpose was to then take the matter to the Office of the UN Commissioner of Human Rights in Geneva as an example of genocide.
An article in a recent Sunday Guardian by Madhav Nalapat said " the Obama administration has dialled back on the hectic efforts by Hillary Clinton to paint the Gujarat CM as guilty of mass murder and even genocide.

Secretary Clinton's 'Get Modi' Policy holds disastrous to US under Modi regime | Asian Tribune

Sri Sarang

Thanks for the reference.

While Obama has called himself a Christian he did change his college name of Barry to his Muslim name Barrack.

He has a soft corner for the Islamic view point and barged himself into a local controversy about a Mosque being built at the 9/11 bombing site.

Hillary wanting to one up her boss and to impress him probably went relentlessly after any area where Muslims felt threatened.

In other words Hillary did not act on her own without explicit orders from Obama. It is not that he dialed back but found that he is forced to deal with the election results of India.

I hope RSS and others scale back their demands for a few years until there is economic prosperity and more economic power for India in the world. Hindus can live in peace with any other religion if the conversion agenda is stopped by lawfully discouraging external funding of these religious groups.

 

[sarang]

Majority of hindus want abrogation of art 370 and building of ram temple in ayodhya and are willing to wait to achieve these by constitutional and legal means. It is almost 4 years after the ramjanmabhoomi verdict, the sc yet to close the pending appeals. In fact a detailed archaeological study could have been completed by now. Repeal of 370 needs constitutional amendment with 2/3 majority. Amit shah is confident that bjp/nda will get 2/3 majority in 2019. All other issues - reservation, minority appeasement, return of temple administration, vote bank politics, corruption, black money can be tackled by routine administrative measures. Hindus are a patient lot - ellam avan cheyal. Negative propaganda on RSS by the left, congress and secularists is wearing thin. So is hindu terror which is miniscule compared to muslim terror by any standard and the whole world has felt it.

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

if it can be ascertained, guaranteed and proved beyond doubt that declaring india as hindurashtra would change every hindu to a better human being, civilized, cultured, etc., let the govt go ahead and declare so.

 

[prasad1]

if it can be ascertained, guaranteed and proved beyond doubt that declaring india as hindurashtra would change every hindu to a better human being, civilized, cultured, etc., let the govt go ahead and declare so.

If we go by that principle, i do not see any improvement in citizens of any country that has declared religion. We are better than that.